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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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Dirty folk: third shower proposed!
I have a flat with the hot water cylinder fed by a small water tank at
ceiling level within the flat with a 22mm pipe! Shower was ridiculous, as virtually no head of water, so I fitted a pump. Dire warnings about the cylinder running out of water and the pump running dry have so far turned out to be garbage. No probs at all. I guess that there is only so much water will flow through a shower head. HTH Geoff "Mungo Henning" wrote in message ... Hi Folks, Now that I've grabbed your attention with that Subject line, let me explain: Three levels in my house: loft (attic) unused except for junk, bedrooms in first floor, main living areas and bathroom on ground floor. 50 gallon cold water tank in loft, feeding a hot water tank situated on the first floor (feed via 28mm pipe). Thermostatic shower at ground floor (great shower). Last year we added a second shower (in the first floor loo) but decided to install an electric shower (10.8 Kw) to cope with those times where someone has had a bath and the hot tank hasn't recovered yet. Latest brainwave from "her indoors" is to add an en-suite to our master bedroom, and whilst I'm installing it, I might as well put in another shower for convenience (!) Dilemma: what kind of shower should I install? Since we already have an electric shower (10.8 Kw), adding another might be fun when accidentally they both get used at the same time (100A consumer unit). Since the en-suite will be on the first floor there probably won't be enough head of water for a thermostatic (gravity) shower. Power shower then (pump the hot and cold)? Would the 28mm feed to the tank be enough for the pump, or am I still contemplating one of those flanges? The other part of the equation is the fact that we do have a three-phase supply (although we only use one and have one meter). Use another phase for the new shower alone? Don't think so, but you might know better. So, whaddya think? Opinions requested; thanks in advance Mungo |
#2
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Dirty folk: third shower proposed!
"GB" wrote in message ... I have a flat with the hot water cylinder fed by a small water tank at ceiling level within the flat with a 22mm pipe! Shower was ridiculous, as virtually no head of water, so I fitted a pump. Dire warnings about the cylinder running out of water and the pump running dry have so far turned out to be garbage. No probs at all. I guess that there is only so much water will flow through a shower head. Full length shower panels are now popular and are sold in Screwfix and the sheds. These can drain a normal cylinder in a few minutes. Also a high pressure pump can also do the same. --- -- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.507 / Virus Database: 304 - Release Date: 04/08/2003 |
#3
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Dirty folk: third shower proposed!
"Julian Fowler" wrote in message ... On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:57:13 +0100, "IMM" wrote: Get rid of the electric shower as they are made by Satan himself. Why? Satan operates in mysterious ways and electric showers are one of them. --- -- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.507 / Virus Database: 304 - Release Date: 04/08/2003 |
#4
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Dirty folk: third shower proposed!
On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:18:27 +0100, "IMM" wrote:
"Julian Fowler" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:57:13 +0100, "IMM" wrote: Get rid of the electric shower as they are made by Satan himself. Why? Satan operates in mysterious ways and electric showers are one of them. My question was genuine: why the opposition to electric showers (preferable to other options, IMO, on grounds of practicality)? Julian -- Julian Fowler julian (at) bellevue-barn (dot) org (dot) uk |
#5
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Dirty folk: third shower proposed!
"Julian Fowler" wrote in message ... On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:18:27 +0100, "IMM" wrote: "Julian Fowler" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:57:13 +0100, "IMM" wrote: Get rid of the electric shower as they are made by Satan himself. Why? Satan operates in mysterious ways and electric showers are one of them. My question was genuine: why the opposition to electric showers (preferable to other options, IMO, on grounds of practicality)? 1. They cost 3 to 4 times more to run. 2. They are unreliable. 3. They have poor control 4. They have poor flow. To have a half decent flow you require very heavy expensive cable right back to the CU, negating any so-called ease of installation and reduced installation costs. 5. They are ugly. 6. They have electricity in wet room near to wet hands. 7. Electricity emits far more greenhouse gasses than In short Satan uses one every day. --- -- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.507 / Virus Database: 304 - Release Date: 04/08/2003 |
#6
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Dirty folk: third shower proposed!
"IMM" wrote in message ... "Julian Fowler" wrote in message news On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:26:32 +0100, "IMM" wrote: "Julian Fowler" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:18:27 +0100, "IMM" wrote: "Julian Fowler" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:57:13 +0100, "IMM" wrote: Get rid of the electric shower as they are made by Satan himself. Why? Satan operates in mysterious ways and electric showers are one of them. My question was genuine: why the opposition to electric showers (preferable to other options, IMO, on grounds of practicality)? 1. They cost 3 to 4 times more to run. Compared to? Gas. But they're instant - no need for having a store of water already heated (or installing extra kit such as your suggested quick recovery cylinder). 2. They are unreliable. Not in my experience. The views of one don't count. Okay - I've found that in my life, the 3 electric showers I've had (3 different properties I note!) have never been unreliable. Does that could as 3 votes, or just 1? 3. They have poor control Ours have multiple settings for different users - push your button, you get your preferred temperature and flow rate. Far *better* control than other showers we've had in the past. Get yourself a real thermostatic shower and see the difference. Same goes for cars - get yourself a nice sports car and you'll never want to drive a Skoda again - however, doesn't mean that Skodas should be scrapped! 4. They have poor flow. Compared to a GBH-with-a-sledge-hammer power shower maybe, but quite good enough for most wake-me-up-after-a-heavy-night needs. Still poor flow. But may be adequate (see Skoda reference) To have a half decent flow you require very heavy expensive cable right back to the CU, negating any so-called ease of installation and reduced installation costs. Huh? We had a new shower installed earlier this year; it took the electrician about 45 minutes to install the cable from the CU (downstairs) to the wall behind the shower (upstairs), 15 minutes to connect it up. Most have to run a cable all through the house. Because yours was easy does not mean most are. Though surely you still have to do this with a dedicated feed from the water tank if you used a pumped shower? I know I'd prefer to lay cable rather than pipework... 5. They are ugly. Compared to? Good well made proper showers which have style and panache. Who cares about style and panache? Its a washing device!!! 6. They have electricity in wet room near to wet hands. So do dishwashers, washing machines, ... But not where water is being squirted around by wet hands. If its sealed adequately, then its safe. Outside sockets/switches etc have been used safely for years. 7. Electricity emits far more greenhouse gasses than ... ??? Natural gas, so they slowly kill us. So I take it you cycle everywhere? D |
#7
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Dirty folk: third shower proposed!
See. Very simple when some linear thinking is applied. Satan makes them.
I am actually totally in agreement with IMM here. There are some circumstances where they could be useful. An all-electric flat springs to mind. Christian. |
#8
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Dirty folk: third shower proposed!
"David Hearn" wrote in message ... "IMM" wrote in message ... "Julian Fowler" wrote in message news On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:26:32 +0100, "IMM" wrote: "Julian Fowler" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:18:27 +0100, "IMM" wrote: "Julian Fowler" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:57:13 +0100, "IMM" wrote: Get rid of the electric shower as they are made by Satan himself. Why? Satan operates in mysterious ways and electric showers are one of them. My question was genuine: why the opposition to electric showers (preferable to other options, IMO, on grounds of practicality)? 1. They cost 3 to 4 times more to run. Compared to? Gas. But they're instant - no need for having a store of water already heated (or installing extra kit such as your suggested quick recovery cylinder). The OP was installing a bath too. 2. They are unreliable. Not in my experience. The views of one don't count. Okay - I've found that in my life, the 3 electric showers I've had (3 different properties I note!) have never been unreliable. Does that could as 3 votes, or just 1? Well your votes count with the other millions to this one. 3. They have poor control Ours have multiple settings for different users - push your button, you get your preferred temperature and flow rate. Far *better* control than other showers we've had in the past. Get yourself a real thermostatic shower and see the difference. Same goes for cars - get yourself a nice sports car and you'll never want to drive a Skoda again - however, doesn't mean that Skodas should be scrapped! It does mean they should not be made as they were. BTW, Skoda's are now superb cars. You see they looked at their earlier cars and electric showers and though we must make cars like excellent proper shower, and look what they did.. 4. They have poor flow. Compared to a GBH-with-a-sledge-hammer power shower maybe, but quite good enough for most wake-me-up-after-a-heavy-night needs. Still poor flow. But may be adequate (see Skoda reference) Those Skoda's are no longer made. To have a half decent flow you require very heavy expensive cable right back to the CU, negating any so-called ease of installation and reduced installation costs. Huh? We had a new shower installed earlier this year; it took the electrician about 45 minutes to install the cable from the CU (downstairs) to the wall behind the shower (upstairs), 15 minutes to connect it up. Most have to run a cable all through the house. Because yours was easy does not mean most are. Though surely you still have to do this with a dedicated feed from the water tank if you used a pumped shower? I know I'd prefer to lay cable rather than pipework... Plastic pipe is easy these days. 5. They are ugly. Compared to? Good well made proper showers which have style and panache. Who cares about style and panache? Its a washing device!!! Old Skoda owners? 6. They have electricity in wet room near to wet hands. So do dishwashers, washing machines, ... But not where water is being squirted around by wet hands. If its sealed adequately, then its safe. Outside sockets/switches etc have been used safely for years. Sockets are not supposed to be near water, sinks etc. 7. Electricity emits far more greenhouse gasses than ... ??? Natural gas, so they slowly kill us. So I take it you cycle everywhere? No I use natural gas, and walk when I can. --- -- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.507 / Virus Database: 304 - Release Date: 04/08/2003 |
#9
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Dirty folk: third shower proposed!
Hi folks,
Ta to all the repliers so far. Regarding the Electric shower, I find the 10.8Kwatt one very commendable, but I'm worried about putting a second one in when the main consumer unit is rated at 100A. So, were I to go the "pumped" route, I wouldn't want it to be a fitted power-washer, just to mimic the flow I get on the downstairs gravity shower. What kind of pump then? Where's the best place to buy it? What's all this about "3 bar" and such? Mungo |
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