*Long* sad story - V Corsa reversed charger connections,
 

My own car got torched (totalled) by burglars this week in an award
winning "Secured by design" car park. Story he

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/hi/news/5058976.html

Struggled home and went to use SWMBO's car and found it had a flat
battery due to being stood. :( No problem, we've a cheap plastic 6A
battery charger. Connected it up and it drew a spark on connection but
all the lights went out on the charger. Turns out the vehicle wiring
used a dull red colour for the -ve and black for the +ve, and it was
dark. :-((( Charger may be nackered now.

So got a spare battery + jump leads, got it started ran it for half an
hour and went to supermarket 1 mile away, and back no problems. 2 days
later (last night, in darkness) went out again, car started fine, but
on returning to car at destination engine refused to start despite
starter motor turning over normally. "Engine" warning light flashing
and Batt. warning light on continuously. After 3 mins buggering about
it starts and runs normally (batt light remains on) , but half way
home (headlights on) instrument panel lights dim alarmingly, turn
headlights off but little improvement, lights continue to dim,
seemingly only just make it home although engine running faultlessly.
On getting out of car interior light comes on full brightness, try
headlights, they come on and stay on full brightness. Tried it this
morning - starts and runs normally, all warning lights remain off.

What's the betting on this? A burnt out diode in the alternator
causing low output? I wouldn't have thought the cheap 6A charger was
man enough to do that. Initial recharge not long enough IME in the
past once the cars been jump started it's been OK.?

Tried on my own drive the alternator appears able to sustain
headlights + heated rear window + cig lighter.

Any thoughts ? I've got a 700 mile trip this week which will be bad
enough in a 1 litre Corsa without the electrics dying on me in the
bleak bit between Dundee and Aberdeen. :-(

DG

*Long* sad story - V Corsa reversed charger connections,
 

In uk.d-i-y Derek ^ wrote:
My own car got torched (totalled) by burglars this week in an award
winning "Secured by design" car park. Story he

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/hi/news/5058976.html

Struggled home and went to use SWMBO's car and found it had a flat
battery due to being stood. :( No problem, we've a cheap plastic 6A
battery charger. Connected it up and it drew a spark on connection but
all the lights went out on the charger. Turns out the vehicle wiring
used a dull red colour for the -ve and black for the +ve, and it was
dark. :-((( Charger may be nackered now.

So got a spare battery + jump leads, got it started ran it for half an
hour and went to supermarket 1 mile away, and back no problems. 2 days
later (last night, in darkness) went out again, car started fine, but
on returning to car at destination engine refused to start despite
starter motor turning over normally. "Engine" warning light flashing
and Batt. warning light on continuously. After 3 mins buggering about
it starts and runs normally (batt light remains on) , but half way
home (headlights on) instrument panel lights dim alarmingly, turn
headlights off but little improvement, lights continue to dim,
seemingly only just make it home although engine running faultlessly.
On getting out of car interior light comes on full brightness, try
headlights, they come on and stay on full brightness. Tried it this
morning - starts and runs normally, all warning lights remain off.

Check the battery connectors to ensure they are secure?

*Long* sad story - V Corsa reversed charger connections,
 

On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 15:19:20 -0000, Derek ^
wrote:


headlights off but little improvement, lights continue to dim,


Well the normal checks apply, are the earth leads & battery clamps clean &
secure? Does the battery light go out then? What's the battery voltage
with & without the engine running?

*Long* sad story - V Corsa reversed charger connections,
 

Ian Stirling wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Derek ^ wrote:
My own car got torched (totalled) by burglars this week in an award
winning "Secured by design" car park. Story he

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/hi/news/5058976.html

Struggled home and went to use SWMBO's car and found it had a flat
battery due to being stood. :( No problem, we've a cheap plastic 6A
battery charger. Connected it up and it drew a spark on connection
but all the lights went out on the charger. Turns out the vehicle
wiring used a dull red colour for the -ve and black for the +ve, and
it was dark. :-((( Charger may be nackered now.

So got a spare battery + jump leads, got it started ran it for half
an hour and went to supermarket 1 mile away, and back no problems. 2
days later (last night, in darkness) went out again, car started
fine, but on returning to car at destination engine refused to start
despite starter motor turning over normally. "Engine" warning light
flashing and Batt. warning light on continuously. After 3 mins
buggering about it starts and runs normally (batt light remains on)
, but half way home (headlights on) instrument panel lights dim
alarmingly, turn headlights off but little improvement, lights
continue to dim, seemingly only just make it home although engine
running faultlessly. On getting out of car interior light comes on
full brightness, try headlights, they come on and stay on full
brightness. Tried it this morning - starts and runs normally, all
warning lights remain off.

Check the battery connectors to ensure they are secure?

Good advice, I had similar problems years ago with a Ford Escort, I took
both cables off, wire brushed the lead terminals on the battery and used a
tiny wire brush to clean the round insides of the + and - terminal
connectors so that it was clean metal to clean metal....after tightening I
applied a coating of vaseline to keep damp off.

*Long* sad story - V Corsa reversed charger connections,
 

"Derek ^" wrote in message
...
My own car got torched (totalled) by burglars this week in an award
winning "Secured by design" car park. Story he

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/hi/news/5058976.html

Struggled home and went to use SWMBO's car and found it had a flat
battery due to being stood. :( No problem, we've a cheap plastic 6A
battery charger. Connected it up and it drew a spark on connection but
all the lights went out on the charger. Turns out the vehicle wiring
used a dull red colour for the -ve and black for the +ve, and it was
dark. :-((( Charger may be nackered now.

So got a spare battery + jump leads, got it started ran it for half an
hour and went to supermarket 1 mile away, and back no problems. 2 days
later (last night, in darkness) went out again, car started fine, but
on returning to car at destination engine refused to start despite
starter motor turning over normally. "Engine" warning light flashing
and Batt. warning light on continuously. After 3 mins buggering about
it starts and runs normally (batt light remains on) , but half way
home (headlights on) instrument panel lights dim alarmingly, turn
headlights off but little improvement, lights continue to dim,
seemingly only just make it home although engine running faultlessly.
On getting out of car interior light comes on full brightness, try
headlights, they come on and stay on full brightness. Tried it this
morning - starts and runs normally, all warning lights remain off.

What's the betting on this? A burnt out diode in the alternator
causing low output? I wouldn't have thought the cheap 6A charger was
man enough to do that. Initial recharge not long enough IME in the
past once the cars been jump started it's been OK.?

Tried on my own drive the alternator appears able to sustain
headlights + heated rear window + cig lighter.

Any thoughts ? I've got a 700 mile trip this week which will be bad
enough in a 1 litre Corsa without the electrics dying on me in the
bleak bit between Dundee and Aberdeen. :-(

DG


Lights dimmng with the engine running? You got an extraordinary high
resistance somewhere in the ignition circuitry? Can't think where though,
maybe a wire came loose and fell onto a bridge for the same circuit with
high resistance??

Unlikely, but possible.

Make sure mobile has full charge and credit, pack a good sleeping bag and a
survival blanket?

--
Billy H

*Long* sad story - V Corsa reversed charger connections,
 

"Billy H" wrote in message
...

"Derek ^" wrote in message
...
My own car got torched (totalled) by burglars this week in an award
winning "Secured by design" car park. Story he

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/hi/news/5058976.html

Struggled home and went to use SWMBO's car and found it had a flat
battery due to being stood. :( No problem, we've a cheap plastic 6A
battery charger. Connected it up and it drew a spark on connection but
all the lights went out on the charger. Turns out the vehicle wiring
used a dull red colour for the -ve and black for the +ve, and it was
dark. :-((( Charger may be nackered now.

So got a spare battery + jump leads, got it started ran it for half an
hour and went to supermarket 1 mile away, and back no problems. 2 days
later (last night, in darkness) went out again, car started fine, but
on returning to car at destination engine refused to start despite
starter motor turning over normally.

Petrol engine?

If tit is a high resistance, maybe it in HT circuit, if the thing didn't
fire but battery okay (turning starter) then I'd bet it wasn't the battery
connections 'cos you're drawing maximum amperage when you turn over the
motor.

mm, it'll be one of these new no-fum motors with a feckin brain-dead box in
it right?? No longer dizzy but brain dead? If it was dizzy controlled, maybe
you got muck in the dizzy head? that'd up resistance but wouldn't
necessarily equate to low lighting.






"Engine" warning light flashing
and Batt. warning light on continuously. After 3 mins buggering about
it starts and runs normally (batt light remains on) , but half way
home (headlights on) instrument panel lights dim alarmingly, turn
headlights off but little improvement, lights continue to dim,
seemingly only just make it home although engine running faultlessly.
On getting out of car interior light comes on full brightness, try
headlights, they come on and stay on full brightness. Tried it this
morning - starts and runs normally, all warning lights remain off.

What's the betting on this? A burnt out diode in the alternator
causing low output? I wouldn't have thought the cheap 6A charger was
man enough to do that. Initial recharge not long enough IME in the
past once the cars been jump started it's been OK.?

Tried on my own drive the alternator appears able to sustain
headlights + heated rear window + cig lighter.

Any thoughts ? I've got a 700 mile trip this week which will be bad
enough in a 1 litre Corsa without the electrics dying on me in the
bleak bit between Dundee and Aberdeen. :-(

DG


Lights dimmng with the engine running? You got an extraordinary high
resistance somewhere in the ignition circuitry? Can't think where though,
maybe a wire came loose and fell onto a bridge for the same circuit with
high resistance??

Unlikely, but possible.

Make sure mobile has full charge and credit, pack a good sleeping bag and
a survival blanket?

--
Billy H

*Long* sad story - V Corsa reversed charger connections,
 

In message , Derek ^
writes
My own car got torched (totalled) by burglars this week in an award
winning "Secured by design" car park. Story he

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/hi/news/5058976.html

Struggled home and went to use SWMBO's car and found it had a flat
battery due to being stood. :( No problem, we've a cheap plastic 6A
battery charger. Connected it up and it drew a spark on connection but
all the lights went out on the charger. Turns out the vehicle wiring
used a dull red colour for the -ve and black for the +ve, and it was
dark. :-((( Charger may be nackered now.

So got a spare battery + jump leads, got it started ran it for half an
hour and went to supermarket 1 mile away, and back no problems. 2 days
later (last night, in darkness) went out again, car started fine, but
on returning to car at destination engine refused to start despite
starter motor turning over normally. "Engine" warning light flashing
and Batt. warning light on continuously. After 3 mins buggering about
it starts and runs normally (batt light remains on) , but half way
home (headlights on) instrument panel lights dim alarmingly, turn
headlights off but little improvement, lights continue to dim,
seemingly only just make it home although engine running faultlessly.
On getting out of car interior light comes on full brightness, try
headlights, they come on and stay on full brightness. Tried it this
morning - starts and runs normally, all warning lights remain off.

What's the betting on this? A burnt out diode in the alternator
causing low output? I wouldn't have thought the cheap 6A charger was
man enough to do that. Initial recharge not long enough IME in the
past once the cars been jump started it's been OK.?

Tried on my own drive the alternator appears able to sustain
headlights + heated rear window + cig lighter.

Any thoughts ? I've got a 700 mile trip this week which will be bad
enough in a 1 litre Corsa without the electrics dying on me in the
bleak bit between Dundee and Aberdeen. :-(

There was someone selling a 5 series BMW for £300 in UKRM the other day
- comfy ride for 700 miles

- just go ands buy another cheap car for the trip and flog it on once
you're sorted again


--
geoff

*Long* sad story - V Corsa reversed charger connections,
 

What's the betting on this? A burnt out diode in the alternator
causing low output? I wouldn't have thought the cheap 6A charger was
man enough to do that. Initial recharge not long enough IME in the
past once the cars been jump started it's been OK.?

It's usually poor terminal connection at the battery, or more likely in this
case, a dodgy earth strap somewhere.

Christian.

*Long* sad story - V Corsa reversed charger connections,
 

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
.. .
What's the betting on this? A burnt out diode in the alternator
causing low output? I wouldn't have thought the cheap 6A charger was
man enough to do that. Initial recharge not long enough IME in the
past once the cars been jump started it's been OK.?

It's usually poor terminal connection at the battery, or more likely in
this case, a dodgy earth strap somewhere.

Christian.



He said his starter is turning the engine, battery terminal connection
cannot (to my mind) be to blame.

Maybe an earth in the ignition circuit.

*Long* sad story - V Corsa reversed charger connections,
 

On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 12:12:54 UTC, "Billy H"
wrote:

It's usually poor terminal connection at the battery, or more likely in
this case, a dodgy earth strap somewhere.

Christian.

He said his starter is turning the engine, battery terminal connection
cannot (to my mind) be to blame.

A bad connection can cause a significant voltage drop when the starter
is turning, causing the ignition system to malfunction. As Christian
says, check it.

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
Avenue Supplies, http://avenuesupplies.co.uk

*Long* sad story - V Corsa reversed charger connections,
 

He said his starter is turning the engine, battery terminal connection
cannot (to my mind) be to blame.

The problems are intermittent. However, I agree, it is more likely that the
poor connection is elsewhere. The earth straps between engine and body or to
the engine management system are frequently suspect in these situations.

Christian.

*Long* sad story - V Corsa reversed charger connections,
 

On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 21:17:03 GMT, raden wrote:



There was someone selling a 5 series BMW for £300 in UKRM the other day
- comfy ride for 700 miles

- just go ands buy another cheap car for the trip and flog it on once
you're sorted again

I should have mentioned before it's petrol with electronic fuel
injection

It was arseing about again this morning when I went to start it.

Turning the ignition on but not as far as "start", has the "engine"
warning light flashing, and the mechanical warning light (pictogram of
a car outline with a spanner across it.) lit continuously. Turning the
key to start results in the starter turning over enthusiastically but
only sporadic firing. Buggering about like this for two/three minutes
results in the engine starting, whereupon all warning lights go out
and the car drives normally (in daylight with headlights off & minimal
electrics) .

These aren't the normal symptoms of a low battery in this car and the
starter motor does turn the engine over very well. I suppose I might
have disturbed the 12 volts feed to the electronics when I put the big
Croc clips on the battery terminals.

Since it is SWMBO's car I've taken it into a garage (she'd permanently
lose faith in it if it ever let her down) and taken out a cheap rental
car for the business trip. I can't afford to let the customers down a
second time in 10 days.

I think I might have damaged something electronic by connecting the
battery charger the wrong way round. I'm hoping it's nothing too
expensive, the ignition was off when that happened and the car battery
itself should have presnted a very effective short to the puny little
plastic charger.

Or so I hope. 8-(

DG

*Long* sad story - V Corsa reversed charger connections,
 

Derek ^ wrote:
On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 21:17:03 GMT, raden wrote:


There was someone selling a 5 series BMW for £300 in UKRM the other day
- comfy ride for 700 miles

- just go ands buy another cheap car for the trip and flog it on once
you're sorted again

I should have mentioned before it's petrol with electronic fuel
injection

It was arseing about again this morning when I went to start it.

Turning the ignition on but not as far as "start", has the "engine"
warning light flashing, and the mechanical warning light (pictogram of
a car outline with a spanner across it.) lit continuously. Turning the
key to start results in the starter turning over enthusiastically but
only sporadic firing. Buggering about like this for two/three minutes
results in the engine starting, whereupon all warning lights go out
and the car drives normally (in daylight with headlights off & minimal
electrics) .

These aren't the normal symptoms of a low battery in this car and the
starter motor does turn the engine over very well. I suppose I might
have disturbed the 12 volts feed to the electronics when I put the big
Croc clips on the battery terminals.

I had huge issues with a certain car when its battery was dying.

Yes, I could start it, but the voltage stayed permanently low..and the
electrical stuff was all over the place..ABS and transmission warning
lights stayed on for 50 miles before going out, electric windows lost
their 'home' positions..


Traded it for another car that ALSO came with a dead battery. That one
would start..but not hold charge long..and the engine was very rough
until the volts came up. A new battery under warranty fixed everything.


It seems that most of the modern electronics needs about 11v or more to
function properly, wehreas a starte will happily crank on 10 or less.

I would change the battery before dong anything else.

*Long* sad story - V Corsa reversed charger connections,
 

On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:28:26 -0000, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:

He said his starter is turning the engine, battery terminal connection
cannot (to my mind) be to blame.

The problems are intermittent. However, I agree, it is more likely that the
poor connection is elsewhere. The earth straps between engine and body or to
the engine management system are frequently suspect in these situations.


Thanks folks for pointers so far.

The car has been in a garage for 4 days this week, and they say they
can't find out what's causing it. They have a diagnostic computer and
they say the car does not report any fault codes whilst the fault is
present and the warning lights flashing. The have checked the emu by
simulating a fault by disconnecting the temperature sensor and it did
report the correct fault code. So the fault detection and warning
section is not dead alltogether.

The alternator is charging at 19 amps @ 13.8 volts.

Whilst the starter motor is cranking the engine the battery voltage
reads 13 volts.

All connections/earth straps have been checked.

Currently the engine starts a bit like a cold carburettor engine when
no choke has been used. Sporadically firing for a few revs before
stopping. After about 2 minutes of this (when there is sufficient
unburnt fuel in the cylinders, and the cylinders a bit warm?) it will
eventually start and run quite normally. Once up to full operating
temp it will restart without difficulty and no warning lamps
illuminated.

DG

*Long* sad story - V Corsa reversed charger connections,
 

Derek ^ wrote:
On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:28:26 -0000, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:

He said his starter is turning the engine, battery terminal connection
cannot (to my mind) be to blame.
The problems are intermittent. However, I agree, it is more likely that the
poor connection is elsewhere. The earth straps between engine and body or to
the engine management system are frequently suspect in these situations.


Thanks folks for pointers so far.

The car has been in a garage for 4 days this week, and they say they
can't find out what's causing it. They have a diagnostic computer and
they say the car does not report any fault codes whilst the fault is
present and the warning lights flashing. The have checked the emu by
simulating a fault by disconnecting the temperature sensor and it did
report the correct fault code. So the fault detection and warning
section is not dead alltogether.

The alternator is charging at 19 amps @ 13.8 volts.

Whilst the starter motor is cranking the engine the battery voltage
reads 13 volts.

All connections/earth straps have been checked.

Currently the engine starts a bit like a cold carburettor engine when
no choke has been used. Sporadically firing for a few revs before
stopping. After about 2 minutes of this (when there is sufficient
unburnt fuel in the cylinders, and the cylinders a bit warm?) it will
eventually start and run quite normally. Once up to full operating
temp it will restart without difficulty and no warning lamps
illuminated.

DG


A couple of thoughts.

1/. if you can blag a scope, have a look at the charge waveform. If you
took out one or more of the rectifier diode, you might be getting
excessive ripple at lower voltages. Enough to upset the electronics..or
possibly a voltage regulator in the ECU has gone. Replacing a rectifier
pack is normally not too expensive - or a recon alternator. A dodgy ECU
IS expensive - generally the best option is a scrappy one.


2/. Poor cold starting just means its not going rich on startup..its
certainly worthwhile removing the main temp. sensor and putting a meter
across it while you plunge it into a saucepan of boiling water. I spent
weeks tracking down the reverse fault,..sensor was permanently high
resistance and the car was on 'full choke' and had to be run at 3000RPM
plus when hot, or it would stall flood and never restart. A new sensor
was £11.50.The fault codes will detect an open circuit and a short, bit
not a resistance within 'working range' that is nevertheless not working
with respect to temperature.

And took 10 minutes to replace.

*Long* sad story - V Corsa reversed charger connections,
 

Derek ^ wrote:
My own car got torched (totalled) by burglars this week in an award
winning "Secured by design" car park. Story he

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/hi/news/5058976.html

Struggled home and went to use SWMBO's car and found it had a flat
battery due to being stood. :( No problem, we've a cheap plastic 6A
battery charger. Connected it up and it drew a spark on connection but
all the lights went out on the charger. Turns out the vehicle wiring
used a dull red colour for the -ve and black for the +ve, and it was
dark. :-((( Charger may be nackered now.

When I bought a charger, the instructions said "If you connect the leads
the wrong way round, an led will light".

Cool, thinks I, and tests it. LED lights for a microsecond. Back to the
instructions:

"and the fuse will blow"

Whoops. I still needed to charge. So I stuck a piece of silver foil in
the fuse holder, connected it the right way round, and never left the
charger unattended....

Ben

*Long* sad story - V Corsa reversed charger connections,
 

Ben Blaukopf wrote:


When I bought a charger, the instructions said "If you connect the leads
the wrong way round, an led will light".

Cool, thinks I, and tests it. LED lights for a microsecond. Back to the
instructions:

"and the fuse will blow"

LOL!

Whoops. I still needed to charge. So I stuck a piece of silver foil in
the fuse holder, connected it the right way round, and never left the
charger unattended....

Ben

Sometims plugtop ones will fit.

Chris

--
Remove prejudice to reply.

*Long* sad story - V Corsa reversed charger connections,
 

On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 12:19:07 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Derek ^ wrote:
On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 21:17:03 GMT, raden wrote:


There was someone selling a 5 series BMW for £300 in UKRM the other day
- comfy ride for 700 miles

- just go ands buy another cheap car for the trip and flog it on once
you're sorted again

I should have mentioned before it's petrol with electronic fuel
injection

It was arseing about again this morning when I went to start it.

Turning the ignition on but not as far as "start", has the "engine"
warning light flashing, and the mechanical warning light (pictogram of
a car outline with a spanner across it.) lit continuously. Turning the
key to start results in the starter turning over enthusiastically but
only sporadic firing. Buggering about like this for two/three minutes
results in the engine starting, whereupon all warning lights go out
and the car drives normally (in daylight with headlights off & minimal
electrics) .

These aren't the normal symptoms of a low battery in this car and the
starter motor does turn the engine over very well. I suppose I might
have disturbed the 12 volts feed to the electronics when I put the big
Croc clips on the battery terminals.

I had huge issues with a certain car when its battery was dying.

Yes, I could start it, but the voltage stayed permanently low..and the
electrical stuff was all over the place..ABS and transmission warning
lights stayed on for 50 miles before going out, electric windows lost
their 'home' positions..


Traded it for another car that ALSO came with a dead battery. That one
would start..but not hold charge long..and the engine was very rough
until the volts came up. A new battery under warranty fixed everything.


It seems that most of the modern electronics needs about 11v or more to
function properly, wehreas a starte will happily crank on 10 or less.

I would change the battery before dong anything else.

Resolved now, the long & short of it is the problem gradually improved
and symptoms went away one by one.

Chancing the last 700 mile return journey LeedsAberdeenLeeds in
darkness clinched it.

A work colleague suggested that I may have scrambled the memory in the
ecu and it had to "re-learn" it's settings. Only guesswork.

It's equally possible there was a bad battery connection which the
garage resolved whilst it was in for service, the rest being down to
getting some charge into it.

Thanks everybody who helped.

DG