Leaking Pipe - need to drain water.(GCH pipe) need some advice.
 

It's seems I have a leaking pipe somewhere, I noticed some water seems to
be in the plaster of a downstairs wall, some bubble in paint and small
seepage
from a couple of small picture frame pin holes, also slight discolouration
of part
of the ceiling above the affected area. It's only a minor leak (at the
moment)
but it has became more apparent when I have had the heating on. It may have
been
leaking for a few weeks as I had noticed a slight damp smell but I assumed
it was
condensation or similar.
Anyway I am pretty satisfied it is a leak in a pipe to the radiator in the
room
above (bathroom) because firstly I turned the main water supply off and that
didn't seem to stem the flow. Then I turned off the hot water to the taps
via
a valve near the hot water tank, that didn't stop it either.
Then I decided to drain the radiators (I had assumed they were on the same
circuit as
the hot taps but I think that was not the case at all).
Anyway I drained a downstairs radiator 'drainage valve(?)' and that seemed
to stop the water seeping out of the wall so I was quite pleased about that,
but then
I began thinking about this meant regarding the boiler (I only had a pretty
basic grasp
of what I was doing!!) I think I was effectively draining the pipe which the
boiler heats inorder to heat the radiators and also the water in the hot
water
tank so I became concerned that this would not be a good idea if the boiler
was on so I did a quick check on the control unit and noticed it had just
clicked
to on for hot water (but not for the radiators) so I quickly switched it
off.
(It seemed a remakeable coincidence that this had happened just as I was
draining it
but never mind it didn't seem to do any harm but I wish I had checked it
first,
I has assumed it was set to off). Would that be a problem if the boiler had
fired
up with out any water in the pipe I assume I had probably drained?). I don't
think I entirely drained it, just enough to stop the very small leak
(trickle) from the wall pin
holes? Anyway I then turned the boiler off completly after about an hour
(pilot light was still
on but I turned that off by turning the gas control knob on the boiler
(glowworm).
It's probably what you would call a 'bog standard' glow worm system that was
installed
about 30 years ago.
So now I need to lift some floorboards to try and fiind the leak and fix it
(never lifted
boards before but I expect I will manage it somehow) I have never fied a
leak
before either, I was thinkning I could wrap something around it which may be
fairly
easy as it low pressure hot water I assume. I just wanted a quick fix which
I may be able to do
tomorrow when I find the cause of the leak, then maybe do something more
permanent
later (or get someone to do it for me). It might take me a few days to get
to the leak
and sort it out, so I would like to be able to maybe put the central heating
on for a while
as the next few days might be a little chilly and I don't think the small
seepage would be too
much of a problem for an hour or two, then I could redrain it again to stop
it seeping
once I had heated the place up a touch.
The thing I am unsure about is how to fix the leak, should I wrap something
around it
it would not take mush as its pretty low pressure (a few feet (8?) of water.
Any comments? does that sound reasonable? It might take me a few days to do
a good job
if I need to buy anything to do a good job?
Comments?
Would having the boiler on (briefly with possibly no water in the pipe it
heats be a concern?).
I assume it won't be a problem (fingers crossed!!)

TIA.

Leaking Pipe - need to drain water.(GCH pipe) need some advice.
 

"Joe Bloggs" wrote in message
...
It's seems I have a leaking pipe somewhere, I noticed some water seems to
be in the plaster of a downstairs wall, some bubble in paint and small
seepage
from a couple of small picture frame pin holes, also slight discolouration
of part
of the ceiling above the affected area. It's only a minor leak (at the
moment)
but it has became more apparent when I have had the heating on. It may
have been
leaking for a few weeks as I had noticed a slight damp smell but I assumed
it was
condensation or similar.
Anyway I am pretty satisfied it is a leak in a pipe to the radiator in the
room
above (bathroom) because firstly I turned the main water supply off and
that
didn't seem to stem the flow. Then I turned off the hot water to the taps
via
a valve near the hot water tank, that didn't stop it either.
Then I decided to drain the radiators (I had assumed they were on the same
circuit as
the hot taps but I think that was not the case at all).
Anyway I drained a downstairs radiator 'drainage valve(?)' and that seemed
to stop the water seeping out of the wall so I was quite pleased about
that, but then
I began thinking about this meant regarding the boiler (I only had a
pretty basic grasp
of what I was doing!!) I think I was effectively draining the pipe which
the
boiler heats inorder to heat the radiators and also the water in the hot
water
tank so I became concerned that this would not be a good idea if the
boiler
was on so I did a quick check on the control unit and noticed it had just
clicked
to on for hot water (but not for the radiators) so I quickly switched it
off.
(It seemed a remakeable coincidence that this had happened just as I was
draining it
but never mind it didn't seem to do any harm but I wish I had checked it
first,
I has assumed it was set to off). Would that be a problem if the boiler
had fired
up with out any water in the pipe I assume I had probably drained?). I
don't
think I entirely drained it, just enough to stop the very small leak
(trickle) from the wall pin
holes? Anyway I then turned the boiler off completly after about an hour
(pilot light was still
on but I turned that off by turning the gas control knob on the boiler
(glowworm).
It's probably what you would call a 'bog standard' glow worm system that
was installed
about 30 years ago.
So now I need to lift some floorboards to try and fiind the leak and fix
it (never lifted
boards before but I expect I will manage it somehow) I have never fied a
leak
before either, I was thinkning I could wrap something around it which may
be fairly
easy as it low pressure hot water I assume. I just wanted a quick fix
which I may be able to do
tomorrow when I find the cause of the leak, then maybe do something more
permanent
later (or get someone to do it for me). It might take me a few days to get
to the leak
and sort it out, so I would like to be able to maybe put the central
heating on for a while
as the next few days might be a little chilly and I don't think the small
seepage would be too
much of a problem for an hour or two, then I could redrain it again to
stop it seeping
once I had heated the place up a touch.
The thing I am unsure about is how to fix the leak, should I wrap
something around it
it would not take mush as its pretty low pressure (a few feet (8?) of
water.
Any comments? does that sound reasonable? It might take me a few days to
do a good job
if I need to buy anything to do a good job?
Comments?
Would having the boiler on (briefly with possibly no water in the pipe it
heats be a concern?).
I assume it won't be a problem (fingers crossed!!)

TIA.


The pipes (to the rads) are very small ones, about 7mm?
Also the boiler had not been used for a long time (4 months) due to
a fault (didn't need it in summer anyway).

Leaking Pipe - need to drain water.(GCH pipe) need some advice.
 

"Joe Bloggs" wrote in message
...

"Joe Bloggs" wrote in message
...
It's seems I have a leaking pipe somewhere, I noticed some water seems to
be in the plaster of a downstairs wall, some bubble in paint and small
seepage
from a couple of small picture frame pin holes, also slight
discolouration of part
of the ceiling above the affected area. It's only a minor leak (at the
moment)
but it has became more apparent when I have had the heating on. It may
have been
leaking for a few weeks as I had noticed a slight damp smell but I
assumed it was
condensation or similar.
Anyway I am pretty satisfied it is a leak in a pipe to the radiator in
the room
above (bathroom) because firstly I turned the main water supply off and
that
didn't seem to stem the flow. Then I turned off the hot water to the taps
via
a valve near the hot water tank, that didn't stop it either.
Then I decided to drain the radiators (I had assumed they were on the
same circuit as
the hot taps but I think that was not the case at all).

No, the water in the radiators just gets pumped round and round, it is not
connected to the water that comes out of the taps.

This same water usually gets pumped round a coil of pipe in your hot water
cylinder, the water that comes out of the hot tap is heated by this coil of
pipe.

Anyway I drained a downstairs radiator 'drainage valve(?)' and that
seemed
to stop the water seeping out of the wall so I was quite pleased about
that,

There are two main types of heating systems, sealed and vendted.

In a vented system, there is a small water tank, usually in the loft (This
will be higher than the highest radiator and higher than the hot water
cylinder) - this keeps central heating system topped up automatically.

If you have one of these, you need to stop it from filling, otherwise, no
matter how much water you drain off, it will just keep filling :-)

In a sealed system, there is a flexable pipe, usually near the boiler, the
"Filling Loop" one end of this will be connected to the mains water supply,
and the other end to the heating pipes.
This allows you to add more water to your heating system. (When you have
finished filling the system with water, this loop *should* be disconnected,
but usually isn't!
There should be a pressure guage on or near the boiler, this show how much
pressure the system has.

Do you have a pressure gauge and a filling loop, or do you have a small
header tank?

but then
I began thinking about this meant regarding the boiler (I only had a
pretty basic grasp
of what I was doing!!) I think I was effectively draining the pipe which
the
boiler heats inorder to heat the radiators and also the water in the hot
water
tank so I became concerned that this would not be a good idea if the
boiler
was on so I did a quick check on the control unit and noticed it had just
clicked
to on for hot water (but not for the radiators) so I quickly switched it
off.
(It seemed a remakeable coincidence that this had happened just as I was
draining it
but never mind it didn't seem to do any harm but I wish I had checked it
first,
I has assumed it was set to off). Would that be a problem if the boiler
had fired
up with out any water in the pipe I assume I had probably drained?).

It can cuase daname if the boiler is dry, however there should be a safety
lock out, that trips if the boiler gets to hot - if it was only on for a
very short time, I am sure it will be fine.
(When you drained the system, I expect you didn't actually drain the water
in the boiler anyway)


I don't
think I entirely drained it, just enough to stop the very small leak
(trickle) from the wall pin
holes? Anyway I then turned the boiler off completly after about an hour
(pilot light was still
on but I turned that off by turning the gas control knob on the boiler
(glowworm).
It's probably what you would call a 'bog standard' glow worm system that
was installed
about 30 years ago.

Then I would think it is almost cerntainly a vented system.

So now I need to lift some floorboards to try and fiind the leak and fix
it (never lifted
boards before but I expect I will manage it somehow) I have never fied a
leak
before either, I was thinkning I could wrap something around it which may
be fairly
easy as it low pressure hot water I assume. I just wanted a quick fix
which I may be able to do
tomorrow when I find the cause of the leak, then maybe do something more
permanent
later (or get someone to do it for me).

Let's find the leak first...

It might take me a few days to get
to the leak
and sort it out, so I would like to be able to maybe put the central
heating on for a while
as the next few days might be a little chilly and I don't think the small
seepage would be too
much of a problem for an hour or two, then I could redrain it again to
stop it seeping
once I had heated the place up a touch.

You really need to find the leak before you refill, or it could get a lot
worse!

The thing I am unsure about is how to fix the leak, should I wrap
something around it
it would not take mush as its pretty low pressure (a few feet (8?) of
water.
Any comments? does that sound reasonable? It might take me a few days to
do a good job

Find the leak forst...

if I need to buy anything to do a good job?
Comments?

It depends on the source of the leak, find it!

Would having the boiler on (briefly with possibly no water in the pipe it
heats be a concern?).

I doubt it - but don't do it again :-)

If in doublt, ask before you start next time!

I assume it won't be a problem (fingers crossed!!)

TIA.


The pipes (to the rads) are very small ones, about 7mm?
Also the boiler had not been used for a long time (4 months) due to
a fault (didn't need it in summer anyway).

I expect they are 10mm

Sparks...

Leaking Pipe - need to drain water.(GCH pipe) need some advice.
 

"Sparks" wrote in message
...
"Joe Bloggs" wrote in message
...

"Joe Bloggs" wrote in message
...
It's seems I have a leaking pipe somewhere, I noticed some water seems
to
be in the plaster of a downstairs wall, some bubble in paint and small
seepage
from a couple of small picture frame pin holes, also slight
discolouration of part
of the ceiling above the affected area. It's only a minor leak (at the
moment)
but it has became more apparent when I have had the heating on. It may
have been
leaking for a few weeks as I had noticed a slight damp smell but I
assumed it was
condensation or similar.
Anyway I am pretty satisfied it is a leak in a pipe to the radiator in
the room
above (bathroom) because firstly I turned the main water supply off and
that
didn't seem to stem the flow. Then I turned off the hot water to the
taps via
a valve near the hot water tank, that didn't stop it either.
Then I decided to drain the radiators (I had assumed they were on the
same circuit as
the hot taps but I think that was not the case at all).

No, the water in the radiators just gets pumped round and round, it is not
connected to the water that comes out of the taps.

This same water usually gets pumped round a coil of pipe in your hot
water cylinder, the water that comes out of the hot tap is heated by this
coil of pipe.

Anyway I drained a downstairs radiator 'drainage valve(?)' and that
seemed
to stop the water seeping out of the wall so I was quite pleased about
that,

There are two main types of heating systems, sealed and vendted.

In a vented system, there is a small water tank, usually in the loft (This
will be higher than the highest radiator and higher than the hot water
cylinder) - this keeps central heating system topped up automatically.

If you have one of these, you need to stop it from filling, otherwise, no
matter how much water you drain off, it will just keep filling :-)

There is definately a tank in the loft so its vented, I stopped it filling
buy turning the cold water off at the stopcock, but this means no
cold wather either but I can turn it on breifly and get some without any
leakage
apparent in the wall, maybe I woulus be better off doing it in the loft but
its small and crammped up there.

In a sealed system, there is a flexable pipe, usually near the boiler, the
"Filling Loop" one end of this will be connected to the mains water
supply, and the other end to the heating pipes.
This allows you to add more water to your heating system. (When you have
finished filling the system with water, this loop *should* be
disconnected, but usually isn't!
There should be a pressure guage on or near the boiler, this show how much
pressure the system has.

Do you have a pressure gauge and a filling loop, or do you have a small
header tank?

No pressue gauge, I have tank in loft so its vented.

but then
I began thinking about this meant regarding the boiler (I only had a
pretty basic grasp
of what I was doing!!) I think I was effectively draining the pipe which
the
boiler heats inorder to heat the radiators and also the water in the hot
water
tank so I became concerned that this would not be a good idea if the
boiler
was on so I did a quick check on the control unit and noticed it had
just clicked
to on for hot water (but not for the radiators) so I quickly switched it
off.
(It seemed a remakeable coincidence that this had happened just as I was
draining it
but never mind it didn't seem to do any harm but I wish I had checked it
first,
I has assumed it was set to off). Would that be a problem if the boiler
had fired
up with out any water in the pipe I assume I had probably drained?).

It can cuase daname if the boiler is dry, however there should be a safety
lock out, that trips if the boiler gets to hot - if it was only on for a
very short time, I am sure it will be fine.
(When you drained the system, I expect you didn't actually drain the water
in the boiler anyway)

But I think its the same pipe which goes through the radiators?
The hot watertaps are drained too but thats less of a prob.
I guess the worst thast I could do is that I melted that pipe but that must
be unlikely as pots and pans dont melt on the stove do they?!




I don't
think I entirely drained it, just enough to stop the very small leak
(trickle) from the wall pin
holes? Anyway I then turned the boiler off completly after about an hour
(pilot light was still
on but I turned that off by turning the gas control knob on the boiler
(glowworm).
It's probably what you would call a 'bog standard' glow worm system that
was installed
about 30 years ago.

Then I would think it is almost cerntainly a vented system.

So now I need to lift some floorboards to try and fiind the leak and fix
it (never lifted
boards before but I expect I will manage it somehow) I have never fied a
leak
before either, I was thinkning I could wrap something around it which
may be fairly
easy as it low pressure hot water I assume. I just wanted a quick fix
which I may be able to do
tomorrow when I find the cause of the leak, then maybe do something more
permanent
later (or get someone to do it for me).

Let's find the leak first...

It might take me a few days to get
to the leak
and sort it out, so I would like to be able to maybe put the central
heating on for a while
as the next few days might be a little chilly and I don't think the
small seepage would be too
much of a problem for an hour or two, then I could redrain it again to
stop it seeping
once I had heated the place up a touch.

You really need to find the leak before you refill, or it could get a lot
worse!

The thing I am unsure about is how to fix the leak, should I wrap
something around it
it would not take mush as its pretty low pressure (a few feet (8?) of
water.
Any comments? does that sound reasonable? It might take me a few days to
do a good job

Find the leak forst...

if I need to buy anything to do a good job?
Comments?

It depends on the source of the leak, find it!

Would having the boiler on (briefly with possibly no water in the pipe
it heats be a concern?).

I doubt it - but don't do it again :-)

If in doublt, ask before you start next time!

I assume it won't be a problem (fingers crossed!!)

TIA.


The pipes (to the rads) are very small ones, about 7mm?
Also the boiler had not been used for a long time (4 months) due to
a fault (didn't need it in summer anyway).

I expect they are 10mm

Sparks...

Thanks I need to lift some floorboards now, I am not sure if I have
a too suitable for raising then up but I maybe I can find something
other wise I will have to go to homebase of B&Q.

Thanks for your help.I will let you know how I get on.

Leaking Pipe - need to drain water.(GCH pipe) need some advice.
 

"Qatar Airlines Passanger" wrote in message
...

"Sparks" wrote in message
...
"Joe Bloggs" wrote in message
...

"Joe Bloggs" wrote in message
...
It's seems I have a leaking pipe somewhere,


There are two main types of heating systems, sealed and vendted.

In a vented system, there is a small water tank, usually in the loft
(This will be higher than the highest radiator and higher than the hot
water cylinder) - this keeps central heating system topped up
automatically.

If you have one of these, you need to stop it from filling, otherwise, no
matter how much water you drain off, it will just keep filling :-)

There is definately a tank in the loft so its vented, I stopped it filling
buy turning the cold water off at the stopcock, but this means no
cold wather either but I can turn it on breifly and get some without any
leakage
apparent in the wall, maybe I woulus be better off doing it in the loft
but
its small and crammped up there.

Yes, if you just tie the ball cock up, so it can't drop and fill the tank,
this will be fine (assuming there isnt a stopcock just before the ball
ock) - You may need to bang a nail into a joist above to secure the
string/rope, or simply lay a piece of wood over the top of the tank and tie
it to this.


I has assumed it was set to off). Would that be a problem if the boiler
had fired
up with out any water in the pipe I assume I had probably drained?).

It can cuase daname if the boiler is dry, however there should be a
safety lock out, that trips if the boiler gets to hot - if it was only on
for a very short time, I am sure it will be fine.
(When you drained the system, I expect you didn't actually drain the
water in the boiler anyway)

But I think its the same pipe which goes through the radiators?
The hot watertaps are drained too but thats less of a prob.
I guess the worst thast I could do is that I melted that pipe but that
must
be unlikely as pots and pans dont melt on the stove do they?!

The pipe will simply connect to the heat exchanger (usually cast iron) so
you should be fine.


Thanks I need to lift some floorboards now, I am not sure if I have
a too suitable for raising then up but I maybe I can find something
other wise I will have to go to homebase of B&Q.

The last time I had to lift some boards, I used a large flathead screwdriver
and a hammer :-)

The problem arises when you have a board that goes under somthing - then you
need to cut the board in the middle of a joist. (The nails holding the board
down should mark the middle of the joist)

I expect that bards were lifted to install the heating, so hopfully you can
spot these and lift them.

I usually screw the boards back afterwards instead of nailing them - makes
removal later easier and makes it less likley you will damage the boards
when trying to get them back up.


Sparks...

Leaking Pipe - need to drain water.(GCH pipe) need some advice.
 

"Sparks" wrote in message
...

"Qatar Airlines Passanger" wrote in message
...

"Sparks" wrote in message
...
"Joe Bloggs" wrote in message
...

"Joe Bloggs" wrote in message
...
It's seems I have a leaking pipe somewhere,


There are two main types of heating systems, sealed and vendted.

In a vented system, there is a small water tank, usually in the loft
(This will be higher than the highest radiator and higher than the hot
water cylinder) - this keeps central heating system topped up
automatically.

If you have one of these, you need to stop it from filling, otherwise,
no matter how much water you drain off, it will just keep filling :-)

There is definately a tank in the loft so its vented, I stopped it
filling
buy turning the cold water off at the stopcock, but this means no
cold wather either but I can turn it on breifly and get some without any
leakage
apparent in the wall, maybe I woulus be better off doing it in the loft
but
its small and crammped up there.

Yes, if you just tie the ball cock up, so it can't drop and fill the tank,
this will be fine (assuming there isnt a stopcock just before the ball
ock) - You may need to bang a nail into a joist above to secure the
string/rope, or simply lay a piece of wood over the top of the tank and
tie it to this.

I think there are two tanks in the loft IIRC, the nearest on seemed to be
covered with some sort of insulation, the furthest one is really hard to get
to
if it is indeed a tank, the loft ceiling is very low near the tanks, it
seemed easier
to turn it off at the main stop cock.Especially as I wanted to do it
quickly.



I has assumed it was set to off). Would that be a problem if the
boiler had fired
up with out any water in the pipe I assume I had probably drained?).

It can cuase daname if the boiler is dry, however there should be a
safety lock out, that trips if the boiler gets to hot - if it was only
on for a very short time, I am sure it will be fine.
(When you drained the system, I expect you didn't actually drain the
water in the boiler anyway)

But I think its the same pipe which goes through the radiators?
The hot watertaps are drained too but thats less of a prob.
I guess the worst thast I could do is that I melted that pipe but that
must
be unlikely as pots and pans dont melt on the stove do they?!

The pipe will simply connect to the heat exchanger (usually cast iron) so
you should be fine.

Yes I guess so.


Thanks I need to lift some floorboards now, I am not sure if I have
a too suitable for raising then up but I maybe I can find something
other wise I will have to go to homebase of B&Q.

The last time I had to lift some boards, I used a large flathead
screwdriver and a hammer :-)

The problem arises when you have a board that goes under somthing - then
you need to cut the board in the middle of a joist. (The nails holding the
board down should mark the middle of the joist)

I expect that bards were lifted to install the heating, so hopfully you
can spot these and lift them.

I usually screw the boards back afterwards instead of nailing them - makes
removal later easier and makes it less likley you will damage the boards
when trying to get them back up.

Well I did have a look at them and try to lever one up but with no luck.
I had even bought a wide chisel tool called an "electicians flooring tool"
but it looked too thick to fit between any gaps, I asked one of the
assistants
if it was suitable but he didn't give a clear answer and went to luck for
the
'assistant who knows about plumbing" (former plulmber by the sounds of it)
but seemed to have finished his shift. I also bought some stuff like putty
which supposedly could be used to fix leaks, at least temporilly.
The board I wanted to lift was under the skirting board on one side and at
one end, it even went under a door frame. It was not a normal board any
way, seemed to some sort of green chip board, the board next to it was of
the same stuff but about 2 foot wide. Anyway it didnt look like I could
lift them. So I was trying to 'dig around' a nail to see if could get a claw
hammer on it to extract it. (Seemed like the best option at that point).
Anyway as I was doing this I got a knock on the door from my
neighbour, I though they were going to complain about the noise but it
transspired that they had been having problems too. I had suspected the
water
was coming through from their side however as the leakage stopped when
I was draining the radiator I assumed the problem must be on my side.
Looks like they drained theirs or turned something off at about the same
coincidently (well not too much of a coincidence under the circumstances).
Turned out they had had a shower installed last week (I wondered what the
noise was, the walls let noise through as easilly as water!). They said they
had the plumber back and he fixed it but that it had started leaking again,
however none has came through to my side so I was a bit confused, they
also said he was coming around tomorrow morning to fit it.
Anyway I have had my central heating (and water) on for almost 2 hours and
not a trace of any leakage which is a great relief!! I don't think I would
have had
much luck with those boards. Thinking about it the best way would probably
have been to drill the heads off the screws then drive some screws in to try
and pull it up.
The boards are not proper wood some sort of chipboard with not much strength
in it
it would be hard to lever them up unless you got right beneath them.
Anyway I am relieved I have my heating back and no major job to do. I have
just
discovered that if I prick the bubbles in the paint I can press them out
(they seem to be air
not water as I first thought) and they will dissappear without a trace.
I guess I would be within my rights to charge my neighbour for the £10 I
spent
at B & Q on a wedge chisel and a leak repair 'kit' but I guess they may come
in useful
sometime and I think I can return them anyway, they said I could return the
chisel
if unused so same probably applies to the kit.
I am just relieved I have my central heating back especially looking at the
forecast
for then next few days!!



Sparks...