Hi, this is my first post so please bear with me :-)

I have a potterson conventional boiler in my kitchen (downstairs) and a
hot water cylinder in the airing cupboard in an upstairs bedroom. I
have a control panel that sets when the h/w and c/h comes on. I have a
grundfos selectric 15/50 pump, also in the airing cupboard. Recently
this pump started making a loud whiring/vibrating noise (a bit like the
noise made by Dr Who's tardis) when the hot water came on at 6:30am
ready for baths etc. The boiler still worked, the h/w and c/h still
worked but this noise was too much to take each morning.

I turned the pump up to 3 (was on 1) to see if this would fix it but
made it worse.
I assumed, not being a plumber in any way, that it could be air stuck
in the pipes so I drained one of the upstairs radiators to see if this
would fix the problem. Needless to say it made it worse!! Now when the
h/w or c/h (or both) come on the boiler starts, the pump starts but
after a few minutes the boiler starts making a noise like it is boiling
which increases and then it cuts out (i assume this is to stop it over
heating much like a kettle).
The pump in the airing cupboard continues to work (i assume as i can
feel it vibrating and changing the speed makes it faster/slower) but
the pipes above and below it don't get hot.

Any suggestions would be very welcome before I call an engineer which
could cost an arm and a leg, and how could I enjoy my nice warm house
with only one arm and one leg?!?

wrote:
Hi, this is my first post so please bear with me :-)

I have a potterson conventional boiler in my kitchen (downstairs) and a
hot water cylinder in the airing cupboard in an upstairs bedroom. I
have a control panel that sets when the h/w and c/h comes on. I have a
grundfos selectric 15/50 pump, also in the airing cupboard. Recently
this pump started making a loud whiring/vibrating noise (a bit like the
noise made by Dr Who's tardis) when the hot water came on at 6:30am
ready for baths etc. The boiler still worked, the h/w and c/h still
worked but this noise was too much to take each morning.

I turned the pump up to 3 (was on 1) to see if this would fix it but
made it worse.
I assumed, not being a plumber in any way, that it could be air stuck
in the pipes so I drained one of the upstairs radiators to see if this
would fix the problem. Needless to say it made it worse!! Now when the
h/w or c/h (or both) come on the boiler starts, the pump starts but
after a few minutes the boiler starts making a noise like it is boiling
which increases and then it cuts out (i assume this is to stop it over
heating much like a kettle).
The pump in the airing cupboard continues to work (i assume as i can
feel it vibrating and changing the speed makes it faster/slower) but
the pipes above and below it don't get hot.

Any suggestions would be very welcome before I call an engineer which
could cost an arm and a leg, and how could I enjoy my nice warm house
with only one arm and one leg?!?

I'm not a plumber or heating engineer, but when we recently had boiler
problems (cutting out), it was caused by a failing water pump. We
replaced the pump, and everything was back to normal.

I'm not a plumber or heating engineer, but when we recently had boiler
problems (cutting out), it was caused by a failing water pump. We
replaced the pump, and everything was back to normal.

Hi thanks for the reply. Can you remember if the pump was still making
any noise as if it was working fine?

wrote:
I'm not a plumber or heating engineer, but when we recently had boiler
problems (cutting out), it was caused by a failing water pump. We
replaced the pump, and everything was back to normal.

Hi thanks for the reply. Can you remember if the pump was still making
any noise as if it was working fine?

Well in fact the opposite. On close inspection of the pump there was a
distinct lack of noise, and the casing was blisteringly hot. It was
pretty clear that it wasn't functioning correctly.

Well in fact the opposite. On close inspection of the pump there was a
distinct lack of noise, and the casing was blisteringly hot. It was
pretty clear that it wasn't functioning correctly.

My pump seems to be working, as much as I can hear it turning, but the
hot water does not seem to leave the boiler causing it to heat up until
it reaches the maximum tempratue causing it to trip out.

Could it be air stuck in the pipes preventing the pump from
distributing the heated water from the boiler?

wrote:
Well in fact the opposite. On close inspection of the pump there was a
distinct lack of noise, and the casing was blisteringly hot. It was
pretty clear that it wasn't functioning correctly.

My pump seems to be working, as much as I can hear it turning, but the
hot water does not seem to leave the boiler causing it to heat up until
it reaches the maximum tempratue causing it to trip out.

Could it be air stuck in the pipes preventing the pump from
distributing the heated water from the boiler?

I'd still put my money on your pump failing though, if it's making
strange whirring/grinding noises, as you said in your first post.
Doesn't sound healthy does it?

I'd still put my money on your pump failing though, if it's making
strange whirring/grinding noises, as you said in your first post.
Doesn't sound healthy does it?

True but the noise did go away after a while until I bled the radiator
and now it does not make the whiring noise but the water is not taken
from the boiler either.

arggh I wish I were a plumber then I'd know what to do :0)

wrote:
Hi, this is my first post so please bear with me :-)

I have a potterson conventional boiler in my kitchen (downstairs) and a
hot water cylinder in the airing cupboard in an upstairs bedroom. I
have a control panel that sets when the h/w and c/h comes on. I have a
grundfos selectric 15/50 pump, also in the airing cupboard. Recently
this pump started making a loud whiring/vibrating noise (a bit like the
noise made by Dr Who's tardis) when the hot water came on at 6:30am
ready for baths etc. The boiler still worked, the h/w and c/h still
worked but this noise was too much to take each morning.

I turned the pump up to 3 (was on 1) to see if this would fix it but
made it worse.
I assumed, not being a plumber in any way, that it could be air stuck
in the pipes so I drained one of the upstairs radiators to see if this
would fix the problem. Needless to say it made it worse!! Now when the
h/w or c/h (or both) come on the boiler starts, the pump starts but
after a few minutes the boiler starts making a noise like it is boiling
which increases and then it cuts out (i assume this is to stop it over
heating much like a kettle).
The pump in the airing cupboard continues to work (i assume as i can
feel it vibrating and changing the speed makes it faster/slower) but
the pipes above and below it don't get hot.

Any suggestions would be very welcome before I call an engineer which
could cost an arm and a leg, and how could I enjoy my nice warm house
with only one arm and one leg?!?


Hit the pump
take off the screw in the middle and try and free the pump by rotating
the spindle.
Replace the pump.

Hit the pump
take off the screw in the middle and try and free the pump by rotating
the spindle.
Replace the pump.

will the pump leak any water when i remove the screw?

On 27 Oct 2006 03:05:25 -0700, wrote:

Hi, this is my first post so please bear with me :-)

I have a potterson conventional boiler in my kitchen (downstairs) and a
hot water cylinder in the airing cupboard in an upstairs bedroom. I
have a control panel that sets when the h/w and c/h comes on. I have a
grundfos selectric 15/50 pump, also in the airing cupboard. Recently
this pump started making a loud whiring/vibrating noise (a bit like the
noise made by Dr Who's tardis) when the hot water came on at 6:30am
ready for baths etc. The boiler still worked, the h/w and c/h still
worked but this noise was too much to take each morning.

I turned the pump up to 3 (was on 1) to see if this would fix it but
made it worse.
I assumed, not being a plumber in any way, that it could be air stuck
in the pipes so I drained one of the upstairs radiators to see if this
would fix the problem.

How did you drain a radiator?

There is probably an airlock tween the boiler and the valves. Vent out
all the gas on each radiator with the radiator key. There maybe a vent
near the valves aswell and also the screw on the side of the pump
needs venting as NP said.

With the original problem I think you need to do a chemical flush. It
fixed my noisy pump and made the radiators warm again!


Needless to say it made it worse!! Now when the
h/w or c/h (or both) come on the boiler starts, the pump starts but
after a few minutes the boiler starts making a noise like it is boiling
which increases and then it cuts out (i assume this is to stop it over
heating much like a kettle).
The pump in the airing cupboard continues to work (i assume as i can
feel it vibrating and changing the speed makes it faster/slower) but
the pipes above and below it don't get hot.

Any suggestions would be very welcome before I call an engineer which
could cost an arm and a leg, and how could I enjoy my nice warm house
with only one arm and one leg?!?

Hi Thanks for the reply.

I unscrewed the vent on the top left of the radiator which released
little trickle of water for a couple of minutes.

you mention btween the bolier and the valves. What valves? (sorry for
sounding stupid)

On 27 Oct 2006 07:55:12 -0700, wrote:

Hi Thanks for the reply.

I unscrewed the vent on the top left of the radiator which released
little trickle of water for a couple of minutes.

Cant see how that can make it worse. If the water was black/brown your
system needs a flush.

you mention btween the bolier and the valves. What valves? (sorry for
sounding stupid)

Its a bit of plumbing with a motor on it. The motor is a metal box and
has a wire going fromit to a junction box. Likely near the cylinder.

Normaly the hot water comes from the boiler to the pump and then to
the valves.

You should be able to feel the progress of the heat from the boiler to
the pump .

wrote:
Hi, this is my first post so please bear with me :-)

I have a potterson conventional boiler in my kitchen (downstairs) and a
hot water cylinder in the airing cupboard in an upstairs bedroom. I
have a control panel that sets when the h/w and c/h comes on. I have a
grundfos selectric 15/50 pump, also in the airing cupboard. Recently
this pump started making a loud whiring/vibrating noise (a bit like the
noise made by Dr Who's tardis) when the hot water came on at 6:30am
ready for baths etc. The boiler still worked, the h/w and c/h still
worked but this noise was too much to take each morning.

I turned the pump up to 3 (was on 1) to see if this would fix it but
made it worse.
I assumed, not being a plumber in any way, that it could be air stuck
in the pipes so I drained one of the upstairs radiators to see if this
would fix the problem. Needless to say it made it worse!! Now when the
h/w or c/h (or both) come on the boiler starts, the pump starts but
after a few minutes the boiler starts making a noise like it is boiling
which increases and then it cuts out (i assume this is to stop it over
heating much like a kettle).
The pump in the airing cupboard continues to work (i assume as i can
feel it vibrating and changing the speed makes it faster/slower) but
the pipes above and below it don't get hot.

Any suggestions would be very welcome before I call an engineer which
could cost an arm and a leg, and how could I enjoy my nice warm house
with only one arm and one leg?!?


i am an heating engineer--from what you have said sounds like you have
a blocked cold feed-very common this time of year--i have had 4 this
week
which means you have not enough water in system
if you take your big screw out of the pump and see no water dripping
then it proberly going to be your cold feed blocked--(if the pump is in
the airing cupboard)
also when the screw is out you be able to see or feel the pump running
just gentily poke a screwdriver in there --if theres no noise then its
your pump

a good tip ,,put your heating on occasionally in the summer --just for
minutes becuase it doesnt half help--so many people leave it off for
6months then expect that it going to work--if you didnt start your car
for 6months would u expect it to start?

i am an heating engineer--from what you have said sounds like you have
a blocked cold feed-very common this time of year--i have had 4 this
week
which means you have not enough water in system
if you take your big screw out of the pump and see no water dripping
then it proberly going to be your cold feed blocked--(if the pump is in
the airing cupboard)
also when the screw is out you be able to see or feel the pump running
just gentily poke a screwdriver in there --if theres no noise then its
your pump

a good tip ,,put your heating on occasionally in the summer --just for
minutes becuase it doesnt half help--so many people leave it off for
6months then expect that it going to work--if you didnt start your car
for 6months would u expect it to start?


Hi thanks for the reply. How would i go abouit unblock in the cold
feed? I have opened the big screw (very nerve racking didn't know if I
was going to get showered with water!) and no water came out. I can
turn the motor and have turned the hot water on whilst the screw was
removed and can see the motor turning.

In message . com,
marcusb3495 writes


a good tip ,,put your heating on occasionally in the summer --just for
minutes becuase it doesnt half help--so many people leave it off for
6months then expect that it going to work--if you didnt start your car
for 6months would u expect it to start?

Ah, but if you'd been a regular, you would have seen my annual "Time to
try out your central heating" post about 6 weeks ago


--
geoff

On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 03:05:25 -0700, mattbroad wrote:

Hi, this is my first post so please bear with me :-)

I have a potterson conventional boiler in my kitchen (downstairs) and a
hot water cylinder in the airing cupboard in an upstairs bedroom. I
have a control panel that sets when the h/w and c/h comes on. I have a
grundfos selectric 15/50 pump, also in the airing cupboard. Recently
this pump started making a loud whiring/vibrating noise (a bit like the
noise made by Dr Who's tardis) when the hot water came on at 6:30am
ready for baths etc. The boiler still worked, the h/w and c/h still
worked but this noise was too much to take each morning.

I turned the pump up to 3 (was on 1) to see if this would fix it but
made it worse.
I assumed, not being a plumber in any way, that it could be air stuck
in the pipes so I drained one of the upstairs radiators to see if this
would fix the problem. Needless to say it made it worse!! Now when the
h/w or c/h (or both) come on the boiler starts, the pump starts but
after a few minutes the boiler starts making a noise like it is boiling
which increases and then it cuts out (i assume this is to stop it over
heating much like a kettle).
The pump in the airing cupboard continues to work (i assume as i can
feel it vibrating and changing the speed makes it faster/slower) but
the pipes above and below it don't get hot.

Any suggestions would be very welcome before I call an engineer which
could cost an arm and a leg, and how could I enjoy my nice warm house
with only one arm and one leg?!?

Go into the loft and give the float valve some exercise. Chances are that
it has stuck in the shut position and the water has evaporated away.

Hopefully this is the problem then you come down and bleed the air out of
the radiators and hopefully all should be well when you turn on.
Later bleed the air out again when the hating is off.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards

Ed Sirett wrote:
On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 03:05:25 -0700, mattbroad wrote:

Hi, this is my first post so please bear with me :-)

I have a potterson conventional boiler in my kitchen (downstairs) and a
hot water cylinder in the airing cupboard in an upstairs bedroom. I
have a control panel that sets when the h/w and c/h comes on. I have a
grundfos selectric 15/50 pump, also in the airing cupboard. Recently
this pump started making a loud whiring/vibrating noise (a bit like the
noise made by Dr Who's tardis) when the hot water came on at 6:30am
ready for baths etc. The boiler still worked, the h/w and c/h still
worked but this noise was too much to take each morning.

I turned the pump up to 3 (was on 1) to see if this would fix it but
made it worse.
I assumed, not being a plumber in any way, that it could be air stuck
in the pipes so I drained one of the upstairs radiators to see if this
would fix the problem. Needless to say it made it worse!! Now when the
h/w or c/h (or both) come on the boiler starts, the pump starts but
after a few minutes the boiler starts making a noise like it is boiling
which increases and then it cuts out (i assume this is to stop it over
heating much like a kettle).
The pump in the airing cupboard continues to work (i assume as i can
feel it vibrating and changing the speed makes it faster/slower) but
the pipes above and below it don't get hot.

Any suggestions would be very welcome before I call an engineer which
could cost an arm and a leg, and how could I enjoy my nice warm house
with only one arm and one leg?!?

Go into the loft and give the float valve some exercise. Chances are that
it has stuck in the shut position and the water has evaporated away.

Hopefully this is the problem then you come down and bleed the air out of
the radiators and hopefully all should be well when you turn on.
Later bleed the air out again when the hating is off.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards

Go into the loft and give the float valve some exercise. Chances are that
it has stuck in the shut position and the water has evaporated away.

Hopefully this is the problem then you come down and bleed the air out of
the radiators and hopefully all should be well when you turn on.
Later bleed the air out again when the hating is off.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards

I have checked the float valve and it seems fine the tank is full of
water. I have tried bleeding all the radiators but the upstairs ones
do not seem to have any water in them.

On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 01:51:30 -0800, mattbroad wrote:

Go into the loft and give the float valve some exercise. Chances are that
it has stuck in the shut position and the water has evaporated away.

Hopefully this is the problem then you come down and bleed the air out of
the radiators and hopefully all should be well when you turn on.
Later bleed the air out again when the hating is off.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards

I have checked the float valve and it seems fine the tank is full of
water. I have tried bleeding all the radiators but the upstairs ones
do not seem to have any water in them.

OK. Chances are that there is a crud plug just where the feed pipe joins
the main circuit.

Shut off header tank and bail/syphon the water out if it.
Cut into the feed pipe in a suitable straight section that gives you
access to the crud-plug location (catching dregs as needed). Break up
crud-plug. Reconnect feed pipe using push fit or compression. Refill and
bleed as needed.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards

I have checked the float valve and it seems fine the tank is full of
water. I have tried bleeding all the radiators but the upstairs ones
do not seem to have any water in them.

OK. Chances are that there is a crud plug just where the feed pipe joins
the main circuit.

Shut off header tank and bail/syphon the water out if it.
Cut into the feed pipe in a suitable straight section that gives you
access to the crud-plug location (catching dregs as needed). Break up
crud-plug. Reconnect feed pipe using push fit or compression. Refill and
bleed as needed.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards

Thanks for the great advise Ed. Im not the worlds best DIY, can I ask
how much I should expect to pay for a quilified person to do this?
Thanks

On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 05:33:37 -0800, mattbroad wrote:

I have checked the float valve and it seems fine the tank is full of
water. I have tried bleeding all the radiators but the upstairs ones
do not seem to have any water in them.

OK. Chances are that there is a crud plug just where the feed pipe joins
the main circuit.

Shut off header tank and bail/syphon the water out if it.
Cut into the feed pipe in a suitable straight section that gives you
access to the crud-plug location (catching dregs as needed). Break up
crud-plug. Reconnect feed pipe using push fit or compression. Refill and
bleed as needed.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards

Thanks for the great advise Ed. Im not the worlds best DIY, can I ask
how much I should expect to pay for a quilified person to do this?
Thanks

How long is a piece of string? £100? Including finding out the problem
an then fully fixing it.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards

you have proberly got it sorted by now

its not really a diy job----expect to to pay 100 to 150

your not paying sometimes for the enginners time you are paying for
what he knows--i unblocked 1 in 10 mins last week but another took 2
hours
if you took a pic i could tell u
good luck



wrote:
Go into the loft and give the float valve some exercise. Chances are that
it has stuck in the shut position and the water has evaporated away.

Hopefully this is the problem then you come down and bleed the air out of
the radiators and hopefully all should be well when you turn on.
Later bleed the air out again when the hating is off.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards

I have checked the float valve and it seems fine the tank is full of
water. I have tried bleeding all the radiators but the upstairs ones
do not seem to have any water in them.