I'm renewing a buildings insurance policy on a house which is currently
vacant while I'm doing it up, and the insurers have come back to me
with a great long questionnaire asking me all sorts of stuff, including
the question: "Are there 'Hot Works' going on at the property, and if
so, has a Hot Works Permit been issued?"

Well... never having heard the phrase before, I googled for "Hot Works"
and found that in fact it wasn't the title of a dodgy porno movie, but
rather, it included plumbing work with a blowlamp, amonst other things.
I therefore truthfully answered "yes", and since I'm d-i-y'ing on my
own property, added "no permit required" .

But - just had the broker on the phone in a tizz about said permit,
saying I need to have one and that she's going to refer to her manager
about it. Meanwhile, before she phone's back, can anyone tell me what
'Hot Works permits' are all about and, whether I need one, and where I
get one from?!!

Thanks
David

On 19 Oct 2006 09:36:44 -0700, "Lobster"
wrote:


Thanks
David

/methinks he's not receiving us!

EricP wrote:
On 19 Oct 2006 09:36:44 -0700, "Lobster"
wrote:


/methinks he's not receiving us!

ohyesheis... sorry about the dupe: not guilty (well, other than being
foolhardy enough to post via google groups for once, while away from my
home PC).

Thanks for the feedback - I can now shout knowledgeably at the broker
when she phones back! (Maybe, as site manager, I'll prepare my own
permit, then swap hats and sign the bloody thing...) I'll let you know
the outcome.

Cheers
David

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 17:47:22 GMT, Lobster
wrote:

EricP wrote:
On 19 Oct 2006 09:36:44 -0700, "Lobster"
wrote:


/methinks he's not receiving us!

ohyesheis... sorry about the dupe: not guilty (well, other than being
foolhardy enough to post via google groups for once, while away from my
home PC).

Thanks for the feedback - I can now shout knowledgeably at the broker
when she phones back! (Maybe, as site manager, I'll prepare my own
permit, then swap hats and sign the bloody thing...) I'll let you know
the outcome.

Cheers
David

))

"Lobster" wrote in message
...

... (Maybe, as site manager, I'll prepare my own permit, then swap hats
and sign the bloody thing...) I'll let you know the outcome.

Please do, Spouse is very interested.It was something even HE didn't know
about :-)

It was the main topic of conversation over dinner tonight!

Mary

In article ,
"Mary Fisher" writes:

It was the main topic of conversation over dinner tonight!

Do you need a "Hot Works" Permit to finish making the Crème Brule?

--
Andrew Gabriel

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Mary Fisher" writes:

It was the main topic of conversation over dinner tonight!

Do you need a "Hot Works" Permit to finish making the Crème Brule?

Dunno. I reckon I should have had one to flambé the pheasant breasts - I
suspect it was the flames which damaged the fan casing in the cooker hood -
no the fan WASN'T switched on!

Mary

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
"Mary Fisher" writes:

It was the main topic of conversation over dinner tonight!

Do you need a "Hot Works" Permit to finish making the Crème Brule?

My million quids worth of public liability insurance specifically excludes
using a blowlamp!


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

On 2006-10-20 23:56:08 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
"Mary Fisher" writes:

It was the main topic of conversation over dinner tonight!

Do you need a "Hot Works" Permit to finish making the Crème Brule?

My million quids worth of public liability insurance specifically
excludes using a blowlamp!

What *any* form of blowlamp or just the old paraffin ones?
Implication that you can't do grown up plumbing?

Seems odd for an insurance for trade purposes..

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
.uk...
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
"Mary Fisher" writes:

It was the main topic of conversation over dinner tonight!

Do you need a "Hot Works" Permit to finish making the Crème Brule?

My million quids worth of public liability insurance specifically excludes
using a blowlamp!

Irrelevant but mine excludes using scissors. I can't make candles without
cutting wick.

Mary

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2006-10-20 23:56:08 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

My million quids worth of public liability insurance specifically
excludes using a blowlamp!

What *any* form of blowlamp or just the old paraffin ones?
Implication that you can't do grown up plumbing?

Seems odd for an insurance for trade purposes..

Another step down the road of banning all but 'qualified' plumbers from
doing plumbing work maybe?

(No word back from my insurers yet BTW!)

David

On 2006-10-21 10:15:49 +0100, Lobster said:

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2006-10-20 23:56:08 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

My million quids worth of public liability insurance specifically
excludes using a blowlamp!

What *any* form of blowlamp or just the old paraffin ones?
Implication that you can't do grown up plumbing?

Seems odd for an insurance for trade purposes..

Another step down the road of banning all but 'qualified' plumbers from
doing plumbing work maybe?

(No word back from my insurers yet BTW!)

David

Presumably with higher insurance premiums. I suppose that there is
extra risk where naked flames are involved, but equally one can think
of risks that arise from virtually every trade in terms of third party
risk.

On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 09:56:23 +0100, Mary Fisher wrote:

My million quids worth of public liability insurance specifically
excludes using a blowlamp!

How do you do plumbing? Compresssion and push fit only?

Irrelevant but mine excludes using scissors. I can't make candles
without cutting wick.

Well just get a packet of razor blades from the supermarket. Lovely and
sharp for cutting. B-) Doubled edged, never mind thats all you can
commonly get.
--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.com...
On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 09:56:23 +0100, Mary Fisher wrote:

My million quids worth of public liability insurance specifically
excludes using a blowlamp!

How do you do plumbing? Compresssion and push fit only?

Irrelevant but mine excludes using scissors. I can't make candles
without cutting wick.

Well just get a packet of razor blades from the supermarket. Lovely and
sharp for cutting. B-) Doubled edged, never mind thats all you can
commonly get.

Well, I was too specific. ALL sharp edged tools are banned.

Needless to say I do use them, in fact Spouse even makes them for
chirosurgeons.

Mary
--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

A work collegue's father managed to burn down their bungalow.
He was soldering some radiator pipes near where they came through
the ceiling. He'd finished and was having a cuppa in the kitchen
when they realised the whole roof was on fire. He had presumably
managed to ignite something just through the pipework holes in
the loft.

--
Andrew Gabriel

On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 10:58:06 +0100, Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 09:56:23 +0100, Mary Fisher wrote:

My million quids worth of public liability insurance specifically
excludes using a blowlamp!

How do you do plumbing? Compresssion and push fit only?

Irrelevant but mine excludes using scissors. I can't make candles
without cutting wick.

Well just get a packet of razor blades from the supermarket. Lovely and
sharp for cutting. B-) Doubled edged, never mind thats all you can
commonly get.

On the odd occasion I have checked out what liability insurance from other
brokers would be they first question they ask is whether or not a blow
lamp is going to be used! This make about a 2:1 difference in the premiums.

However the deal I get thru "Aon" which are Corgi's pet broker makes the
premium (including blow lamps) about the same as the non-blow lamp deal
with the others.

For water plumbing you can get by (just) with using pushfit and crimped
joints (although I've no experience of the latter).

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards

On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 15:26:47 +0100, Ed Sirett wrote:

For water plumbing you can get by (just) with using pushfit and crimped
joints (although I've no experience of the latter).

There's an electrical resistance soft soldering widget that solders well, and
does without a flame -- Rotherm 2000 by Rothenberger. Google turns some
completed listings up on ebay, going for around 20 quid used.


Thomas Prufer

Andy Hall wrote:

My million quids worth of public liability insurance specifically
excludes using a blowlamp!

What *any* form of blowlamp or just the old paraffin ones?
Implication that you can't do grown up plumbing?

Seems odd for an insurance for trade purposes..

Any blowlamp used indoors. Outdoors is OK. Also excludes working 'above
gutter height' which is interesting - I have no intention of working on
roofs, but when clearing gutters my head has to be 'above gutter height'.


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 09:56:23 +0100, Mary Fisher wrote:

My million quids worth of public liability insurance specifically
excludes using a blowlamp!

How do you do plumbing? Compresssion and push fit only?

Yup! Unless the punter specifically ststes soldered, or if I can make up
assemblies outside.


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

On 2006-10-21 21:38:44 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

Andy Hall wrote:

My million quids worth of public liability insurance specifically
excludes using a blowlamp!

What *any* form of blowlamp or just the old paraffin ones?
Implication that you can't do grown up plumbing?

Seems odd for an insurance for trade purposes..

Any blowlamp used indoors. Outdoors is OK. Also excludes working
'above gutter height' which is interesting - I have no intention of
working on roofs, but when clearing gutters my head has to be 'above
gutter height'.

So plumbing has to be with plastic or compression fittings?

Presumably they would do a blowlamp inclusive policy at significant
extra premium? I guess unless you were full time plumbing it wouldn't
be worth it vs the extra cost of compression fittings...

On 2006-10-21 21:40:49 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 09:56:23 +0100, Mary Fisher wrote:

My million quids worth of public liability insurance specifically
excludes using a blowlamp!

How do you do plumbing? Compresssion and push fit only?

Yup! Unless the punter specifically ststes soldered, or if I can make
up assemblies outside.

Actually there are quite a few assemblies where you can do that so I
suppose not that bad.

EricP wrote:
On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 17:47:22 GMT, Lobster
wrote:

EricP wrote:
On 19 Oct 2006 09:36:44 -0700, "Lobster"
wrote:


/methinks he's not receiving us!
ohyesheis... sorry about the dupe: not guilty (well, other than being
foolhardy enough to post via google groups for once, while away from my
home PC).

Thanks for the feedback - I can now shout knowledgeably at the broker
when she phones back! (Maybe, as site manager, I'll prepare my own
permit, then swap hats and sign the bloody thing...) I'll let you know
the outcome.

Well this all a bit weird, and a right royal PITA.

I received my policy from the broker this morning, with an enclosed
blank "Hot Work Permit" to complete. This has spaces for the name of
the person issuing it, and receiving it, plus the signature of a
designated Fire Watch person, who signs off the workplace as safe 1 hr
after the hot works are complete. Having spoken to the broker I can
apparently issue and receive my own permit - however I'm very wary of
that: just imagine how *that* would look in the event of a claim!
However, the Fire Watch person must be a 3rd party. Working alone is
apparently no let out; so that is completely untenable for me.

I pointed out that thousands of d-i-y'ers do soldering of pipework in
their own homes, and that there's no insurance issue with permits then;
however the broker reckoned this is a new thing which insurers are doing
(I'm their guinea pig) and that if insurers become aware that homeowners
are doing their own hotworks, they will be hit with the same
requirement. Not sure what to make of that one. I got caught because
I'm insuring a vacant property, and was specifically asked whether
renovations were ongoing, and when I said yes, I was hit with another
questionnaire which included the 'hot works' issue.

Needless to say I'm looking for another insurer during my cooling-off
period! Any suggestions for a buildings-only cover on a vacant property
undergoing renovation? (FYI mine is AXA).

David

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Lobster wrote:


Well this all a bit weird, and a right royal PITA.

I received my policy from the broker this morning, with an enclosed
blank "Hot Work Permit" to complete. This has spaces for the name of
the person issuing it, and receiving it, plus the signature of a
designated Fire Watch person, who signs off the workplace as safe 1 hr
after the hot works are complete. Having spoken to the broker I can
apparently issue and receive my own permit - however I'm very wary of
that: just imagine how *that* would look in the event of a claim!
However, the Fire Watch person must be a 3rd party. Working alone is
apparently no let out; so that is completely untenable for me.

I pointed out that thousands of d-i-y'ers do soldering of pipework in
their own homes, and that there's no insurance issue with permits
then; however the broker reckoned this is a new thing which insurers
are doing (I'm their guinea pig) and that if insurers become aware
that homeowners are doing their own hotworks, they will be hit with
the same requirement. Not sure what to make of that one. I got
caught because I'm insuring a vacant property, and was specifically
asked whether renovations were ongoing, and when I said yes, I was
hit with another questionnaire which included the 'hot works' issue.

Needless to say I'm looking for another insurer during my cooling-off
period! Any suggestions for a buildings-only cover on a vacant
property undergoing renovation? (FYI mine is AXA).

David

Crazy! Is 'hot works' *really* any more hazardous than cooking on a gas hob?
How many policies require a designated 3rd party fire watcher to certify
that the cooker has been turned off safely after each meal?!
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...


Crazy! Is 'hot works' *really* any more hazardous than cooking on a gas
hob? How many policies require a designated 3rd party fire watcher to
certify that the cooker has been turned off safely after each meal?!

shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh .............

looks round

don't give Them ideas ...

Mary

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...

Crazy! Is 'hot works' *really* any more hazardous than cooking on a gas
hob? How many policies require a designated 3rd party fire watcher to
certify that the cooker has been turned off safely after each meal?!

I wonder if part of the problem is that the house is otherwise vacant. If
you're living there, you're rather more likely to notice a fire starting.

cheers,
clive

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
news
Andy Hall wrote:

My million quids worth of public liability insurance specifically
excludes using a blowlamp!

What *any* form of blowlamp or just the old paraffin ones?
Implication that you can't do grown up plumbing?

Seems odd for an insurance for trade purposes..

Any blowlamp used indoors. Outdoors is OK. Also excludes working 'above
gutter height' which is interesting - I have no intention of working on
roofs, but when clearing gutters my head has to be 'above gutter height'.

But you talked about it being a specific Public Liability cover being
excluded;
are you a pure DIY-er, or do you do tricks for money?

"OG" wrote in message
...

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
news
(...)
But you talked about it being a specific Public Liability cover being
excluded;
are you a pure DIY-er, or do you do tricks for money?

Um, how long have you been reading this NG? Google for "the Medway Handyman"
should give you an answer if you missed it :-)

cheers,
clive