Just had the BCO in for the first fix inspection. "textbook"
apparently, and commented he'd like to see more local contractors
working to this standard !! :-) well chuffed.

Many thanks for the help I got on here, very much appreciated.
Plasterboards can go up now, I'll leave the plastering to a pro, making
good on the doorways is my limit at the moment!!

Out of curiosity, how do you go about becoming an electrician? I take
it you would have to be employed by someone to get vocational training
and that you couldn't just become self employed like a plumber for
example.

Owain wrote:
Staffbull wrote:
Out of curiosity, how do you go about becoming an electrician? I take
it you would have to be employed by someone to get vocational training
and that you couldn't just become self employed like a plumber for
example.

Whyever not?

IMHO it's much easier to become an electrician as the manual skills are
much less, at least for small domestic work; industrial with MI, SWA and
conduit/trunking takes more practice to do a neat job.

You can get the textbook qualifications (16th Edition, Inspection and
Test) quite quickly if you can find a college (or the IEE) doing them as
full-time courses; most colleges do them on evening or day release over
a year fpr youngsters at the "this is how you strip a wire" stage.

Getting a history of installations that can be inspected for a Part Pee
certification guild seems to be the hard bit for someone starting up.

Owain

Cheers, I'm might look into it as I enjoyed doing it quite a lot !! :-)
all my experience is in Invitro medical devices as a Biotech Engineer,
so being made redundant has not left me many options as I do not want
to relocate. Plenty of well paid jobs in the industry but none based in
North Wales. I wouldn't mind doing domestic installs and according to
the BCO there is a severe shortage of electricians and plumbers in the
area. I wouldn't expect to earn what I was earning but a living would
suffice :-)

Owain wrote:

Getting a history of installations that can be inspected for a Part Pee
certification guild seems to be the hard bit for someone starting up.

I suppose you could pay the building notice fees either at your cost, or
at least from your profits in order to carry out the work at no
additional cost to the client. While not ideal it could simply be
considered another startup cost.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:
Owain wrote:

Getting a history of installations that can be inspected for a Part Pee
certification guild seems to be the hard bit for someone starting up.

I suppose you could pay the building notice fees either at your cost, or
at least from your profits in order to carry out the work at no
additional cost to the client. While not ideal it could simply be
considered another startup cost.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

At £60 odd a pop not too bad really, and I suppose it would be
deductable :-)

As an aside, the BCO does not require full testing, he was happy just
to come back on completion with his plug tester and go around the
sockets :-). I would like to test the disconnection times myself though
just for peace of mind. Is the kit available reasonably priced to do
this? I wouldn't have thought so.

On Mon, 09 Oct 2006 10:29:13 -0700, Staffbull wrote:


John Rumm wrote:
Owain wrote:

Getting a history of installations that can be inspected for a Part Pee
certification guild seems to be the hard bit for someone starting up.

I suppose you could pay the building notice fees either at your cost, or
at least from your profits in order to carry out the work at no
additional cost to the client. While not ideal it could simply be
considered another startup cost.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

At £60 odd a pop not too bad really, and I suppose it would be
deductable :-)

As an aside, the BCO does not require full testing, he was happy just
to come back on completion with his plug tester and go around the
sockets :-). I would like to test the disconnection times myself though
just for peace of mind. Is the kit available reasonably priced to do
this? I wouldn't have thought so.

By the book you are meant to have formally calibrated test equipment. I
think you'll find that you can get kit that will do all the things you
need it to for around the £400 quid mark. You need a continuity tester
that tests to 0.01 Ohm most multi meters wont do this. You need a 500V
insulation tester. You need a Loop Impedance/PSC tester and you need an
RCD tester. You can get all these in the same box for around £400.

you are supposed to get them recalibrated or rather recertified every
year, um yeah right.

You don't usually measure MCB or fuse disconnection times directly.
Instead you measuring that the earth loop impedance is low
enough that it would trip the protection quickly enough.



--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards

Owain wrote:
Staffbull wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
Getting a history of installations that can be inspected for a Part Pee
certification guild seems to be the hard bit for someone starting up.
I suppose you could pay the building notice fees either at your cost, or
at least from your profits in order to carry out the work at no
additional cost to the client. While not ideal it could simply be
considered another startup cost.
At £60 odd a pop not too bad really, and I suppose it would be
deductable :-)
As an aside, the BCO does not require full testing, he was happy just
to come back on completion with his plug tester and go around the
sockets :-).

Saves *you* having to buy all that expensive test gear, at least in one go.

I would like to test the disconnection times myself though
just for peace of mind. Is the kit available reasonably priced to do
this? I wouldn't have thought so.

Probably around £500 for a full set and remember it needs periodic
recalibration.

Owain

Cheers, I'm not paying that :-(
I'll just get an RCD tester £20 or abouts

http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSea...sp?sku=IN02013

:-)

Staffbull wrote:

Cheers, I'm might look into it as I enjoyed doing it quite a lot !!
:-) all my experience is in Invitro medical devices as a Biotech
Engineer, so being made redundant has not left me many options as I
do not want to relocate.

Become a handyman, that's what I did when I was made redundant and I wish I
done it 20 years ago.


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Staffbull wrote:

Cheers, I'm might look into it as I enjoyed doing it quite a lot !!
:-) all my experience is in Invitro medical devices as a Biotech
Engineer, so being made redundant has not left me many options as I
do not want to relocate.

Become a handyman, that's what I did when I was made redundant and I wish I
done it 20 years ago.


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

How do you get around Part P on the leccy side?

Staffbull wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Staffbull wrote:

Cheers, I'm might look into it as I enjoyed doing it quite a lot !!
:-) all my experience is in Invitro medical devices as a Biotech
Engineer, so being made redundant has not left me many options as I
do not want to relocate.

Become a handyman, that's what I did when I was made redundant and I wish I
done it 20 years ago.


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

How do you get around Part P on the leccy side?


Ignore me, just read youre website !!

Staffbull wrote:

At £60 odd a pop not too bad really, and I suppose it would be
deductable :-)

Indeed! (would be £88 round here), also some councils will increase the
fee based on the value of the job.

As an aside, the BCO does not require full testing, he was happy just
to come back on completion with his plug tester and go around the
sockets :-). I would like to test the disconnection times myself though
just for peace of mind. Is the kit available reasonably priced to do
this? I wouldn't have thought so.

You could probably buy most of the bits from eBay for about £150 - £200,
then fork out for calibration.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Owain wrote:
Staffbull wrote:
Probably around £500 for a full set and remember it needs periodic
recalibration.
Cheers, I'm not paying that :-(
I'll just get an RCD tester £20 or abouts

Testing RCDs isn't AFAIK required by the Regs.

You're best off starting with a decent megger. The windy-up ones can be
picked up cheaply. Not calibrated of course. Don't think anything else
was used much before 15th Edition.

http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSea...sp?sku=IN02013

I suppose it's better than sticking a wet finger in the hole to see if
you put the live wire in the right terminal, but make no mistake in
thinking that it is an adequate form of testing for a self-employed
electrician.

Owain

Thanks, I'm going to be looking into than in much more depth before I
make move. I would like to give it a try though, i've always been an
advocate of enjoying your job :-).
I'll research it further and have a fresh start next year, hopefully
:-)
I'm thinking of offering my sevices for free to the local sparkies for
experience. I think theres nothing better.

On Oct 9, 1:40 pm, Owain wrote:
Staffbull wrote:
Out of curiosity, how do you go about becoming an electrician? I take
it you would have to be employed by someone to get vocational training
and that you couldn't just become self employed like a plumber for
example.Whyever not?

IMHO it's much easier to become an electrician as the manual skills are
much less, at least for small domestic work; industrial with MI, SWA and
conduit/trunking takes more practice to do a neat job.

You can get the textbook qualifications (16th Edition, Inspection and
Test) quite quickly if you can find a college (or the IEE) doing them as
full-time courses; most colleges do them on evening or day release over
a year fpr youngsters at the "this is how you strip a wire" stage.


And _if_ you can find a college that will take someone who is not
already employed in the trade. It's a definite catch-22, at least round
here.

MBQ

Owain wrote:

Testing RCDs isn't AFAIK required by the Regs.

Oh yes it is. See 713-13-01 for the requirement and Section 11 of the
OSG for a procedure.

--
Andy

Andy Wade wrote:
Owain wrote:

Testing RCDs isn't AFAIK required by the Regs.

Oh yes it is. See 713-13-01 for the requirement and Section 11 of the
OSG for a procedure.

--
Andy

BCO is happy to test with his little martindale plug tester and be on
his merry way :-)

Owain wrote:

Ah yes (although it's 713-12-01 in my rather old edition) - "its
effectiveness shall be verified by a test simulating an appropriate
fault condition and independent of any test facility oncorporated in the
device".

The preceding bit says "where protection against indirect contact or
supplementary protection against direct contact is to be provided by an
RCD ...". Therefore I think that to verify "its effectiveness" you
certainly do need to do more than just "check it goes click."

BCO is happy to test with his little martindale plug tester and be on
his merry way :-)

Yebbut he's a BCO; *you're* wanting to do the job properly.

Quite. I suppose this is the effect of BC not being allowed to pass on
the cost of proper testing. They're now using a cheapskate DIY approach...

--
Andy

Owain wrote:
Staffbull wrote:
Andy Wade wrote:
Testing RCDs isn't AFAIK required by the Regs.
Oh yes it is. See 713-13-01 for the requirement and Section 11 of the
OSG for a procedure.

Ah yes (although it's 713-12-01 in my rather old edition) - "its
effectiveness shall be verified by a test simulating an appropriate
fault condition and independent of any test facility oncorporated in the
device". MCMCMMC.

I was meaning that AIUI the RCD test doesn't have to verify the
operation of the RCD within the specified time/current curve of the BS,
just check it goes click.

I suppose that's the sort of RCD tester one gets for twenny quid.

BCO is happy to test with his little martindale plug tester and be on
his merry way :-)

Yebbut he's a BCO; *you're* wanting to do the job properly.

Owain

By the wording of the regs I dont beleive I can insist on them testing
either !! catch 22 !! if they want it testing they have to pay, if I
want it testing I have to pay !!

What tests would be carried out apart from earth continuity, RCD
disconnection times, I take it a dielectric strength test would be one
at least.

Cheers

Staffbull wrote:

Andy Wade wrote:

Owain wrote:


Testing RCDs isn't AFAIK required by the Regs.

Oh yes it is. See 713-13-01 for the requirement and Section 11 of the
OSG for a procedure.

--
Andy


BCO is happy to test with his little martindale plug tester and be on
his merry way :-)

You can just feel the enhanced part p induced safety wafting over you
can't you? ;-)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 19:20:10 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

Staffbull wrote:



BCO is happy to test with his little martindale plug tester and be on
his merry way :-)

You can just feel the enhanced part p induced safety wafting over you
can't you? ;-)

ROFL



--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Staffbull wrote:

Cheers, I'm might look into it as I enjoyed doing it quite a lot !!
:-) all my experience is in Invitro medical devices as a Biotech
Engineer, so being made redundant has not left me many options as I
do not want to relocate.

Become a handyman, that's what I did when I was made redundant and I wish I
done it 20 years ago.

Glad it's going well, I did wonder !

I was made redundant 2 months ago, but the IT industry beckoned me back
...

Cheers,

Paul.

Staffbull wrote:

What tests would be carried out apart from earth continuity, RCD
disconnection times, I take it a dielectric strength test would be one
at least.

Before energising:
Continuity of protective conductors (i.e. earths and bonds)
continuity of Ring circuits (in FAQ)
Insulation resistance
Polarity
(Earth electrode resistance in TT installations)

Then energise:
Polarity (again, to confirm)
earth fault Loop impedance (Zs)
prospective fault current and External loop (Ze)
functional testing, including RCD operation.

And in that order, giving the mnemonic CRIPPLER.

--
Andy

Andy Wade wrote:
Staffbull wrote:

What tests would be carried out apart from earth continuity, RCD
disconnection times, I take it a dielectric strength test would be one
at least.

Before energising:
Continuity of protective conductors (i.e. earths and bonds)
continuity of Ring circuits (in FAQ)
Insulation resistance
Polarity
(Earth electrode resistance in TT installations)

Then energise:
Polarity (again, to confirm)
earth fault Loop impedance (Zs)
prospective fault current and External loop (Ze)
functional testing, including RCD operation.

And in that order, giving the mnemonic CRIPPLER.

--
Andy

Thanks, the earht here is PME. and I would imagine very effective as
the closest earthed pole is in our back garden about 15m from the house
:-)