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Replacing window pane. 'Putty' recommendations.
Whats the best available material around for sealing a replacement
pane in a single glazed wooden sash window? Used Linseed Oil Putty on the last one but that was five years ago. |
Replacing window pane. 'Putty' recommendations.
Liam wrote:
Whats the best available material around for sealing a replacement pane in a single glazed wooden sash window? Used Linseed Oil Putty on the last one but that was five years ago. linseed oil putty. Give the tub a squeeze before paying, it hsould all be soft. NT |
Replacing window pane. 'Putty' recommendations.
On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 22:24:20 +0100, Liam wrote:
|Whats the best available material around for sealing a replacement |pane in a single glazed wooden sash window? Used Linseed Oil Putty on |the last one but that was five years ago. I moved over to Butyl putty some years ago It does not set like linseed. IMO much better. -- Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Google Groups is IME the *worst* method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies. |
Replacing window pane. 'Putty' recommendations.
Liam wrote:
Whats the best available material around for sealing a replacement pane in a single glazed wooden sash window? Used Linseed Oil Putty on the last one but that was five years ago. Linseed oil putty sets rock hard over time and is the major cause of rot in the lower part of sliding sashes. The thicker layer used in casement windows has a better chance of survival but basically it has nothing going for it compared to acrylics. They can be overpainted within a couple of hours and stay flexible. IIRC Vallance do a universal sealant suitable for glazing |
Replacing window pane. 'Putty' recommendations.
Liam wrote:
Whats the best available material around for sealing a replacement pane in a single glazed wooden sash window? Used Linseed Oil Putty on the last one but that was five years ago. This looks like an acrylic http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp;jsessionid=CDO1JMQMRQS3GCSTHZOSFFI?id=9905 8&ts=42578 |
Replacing window pane. 'Putty' recommendations.
On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 22:24:20 +0100, Liam
wrote: Whats the best available material around for sealing a replacement pane in a single glazed wooden sash window? Used Linseed Oil Putty on the last one but that was five years ago. Thank you all for your advice.This time I had a bit of a job to find a shop selling glass cut to size. Three local ones had shut. Eventually found one still open. Only silicone and linseed oil available so I ended up using linseed oil putty again. Will get some Acrylic from Screwfix to try on the next one.Wish you all a restful bank holiday. |
Replacing window pane. 'Putty' recommendations.
Liam wrote:
On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 22:24:20 +0100, Liam wrote: Whats the best available material around for sealing a replacement pane in a single glazed wooden sash window? Used Linseed Oil Putty on the last one but that was five years ago. Thank you all for your advice.This time I had a bit of a job to find a shop selling glass cut to size. Three local ones had shut. Eventually found one still open. Only silicone and linseed oil available so I ended up using linseed oil putty again. Will get some Acrylic from Screwfix to try on the next one.Wish you all a restful bank holiday. I thought acrylic sealants were generally not as long lived as silicone, which itself isnt longlived enough for wooden glazing. Linseed normally lasts over a century. It can fail of course, but as often as acrylic? I doubt it. NT |
Replacing window pane. 'Putty' recommendations.
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Replacing window pane. 'Putty' recommendations.
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Replacing window pane. 'Putty' recommendations.
Stuart Noble wrote: You've obviously never watched a glazier puttying a window. It is precisely because it's so cheap and fast to apply that they continue using it. The is a glazier who is doing it day in and day out. We mere mortals only put the odd pane of glass in and silicone is the easy way out. Putty has had its day. It is obsolete because its so difficult to remove Not half as difficult as silicone. Glaziers won't touch windows where it has been used Glaziers are not DIY men. We are. |
Replacing window pane. 'Putty' recommendations.
wrote:
wrote: I thought acrylic sealants were generally not as long lived as silicone, which itself isnt longlived enough for wooden glazing. Linseed normally lasts over a century. It can fail of course, but as often as acrylic? I doubt it. I find white silicone very convenient to use rather than putty. You could run round several windows in an hour with a tube of silicone and if you were to replace the putty it would take days. Odd, I've never had that problem with it. Maybe you're using the wrong technique. Putty has had its day. It is obsolete because its so difficult to remove its tough yes, but one rarely need remove it. A couple of panes per house per century maybe. and when it drys it lets the rain in. nonsense I wouldnt take it for nothing. We have to move on with the new materials. do we? why? I guess silicone and related products have replaced many of the difficult finishing jobs like sealing door and window frames and skirting and decorating etc etc. There are good uses for silicone et al, but there are still good uses for the older ones too. I think maybe you underestimate them. It would be interesting to see how many of your frames have rotted a century later due to silicone failure, I'd bet on it being much worse than linseed. I'm sticking with linseed as it has such an excellent record. NT |
Replacing window pane. 'Putty' recommendations.
Stuart Noble wrote:
wrote: I thought acrylic sealants were generally not as long lived as silicone, which itself isnt longlived enough for wooden glazing. Linseed normally lasts over a century. It can fail of course, but as often as acrylic? I doubt it. Tests have shown that acrylics last for a thousand years Provide a cite for this manufacturer's test if it exists. However I suspect youre just being a time waster as always. NT |
Replacing window pane. 'Putty' recommendations.
The message om
from contains these words: Glaziers are not DIY men. Quite so. They have a merry glaziers' song, for a start. http://www.skipweasel.pwp.blueyonder...nds/gasman.mp3 (Flanders and Swann - The Gasman Cometh) -- Skipweasel Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. |
Replacing window pane. 'Putty' recommendations.
wrote:
Stuart Noble wrote: wrote: I thought acrylic sealants were generally not as long lived as silicone, which itself isnt longlived enough for wooden glazing. Linseed normally lasts over a century. It can fail of course, but as often as acrylic? I doubt it. Tests have shown that acrylics last for a thousand years Provide a cite for this manufacturer's test if it exists. However I suspect youre just being a time waster as always. NT Just taking the **** out of you for citing a century plus for linseed putty survival. As you well know, it can even go hard in the tub if not tightly sealed, and that's in a great lump. When it goes hard on your windows it is worse than useless, being about as hard and brittle as the glass itself. You must have realised by now that linseed putty is *only* effective if it *doesn't* dry, which it may not for many years if protected by paint and a favourable aspect. On a south facing window the chances are minimal. Don't you think it's time you started thinking about these things rather than just spouting dogma? Have you never picked lengths of putty out of a window with your fingernail? You can snap then into 3mm pieces. That's what I call inflexible (and useless). |
Replacing window pane. 'Putty' recommendations.
Stuart Noble wrote: You must have realised by now that linseed putty is *only* effective if it *doesn't* dry, which it may not for many years if protected by paint and a favourable aspect. On a south facing window the chances are minimal. Don't you think it's time you started thinking about these things rather than just spouting dogma? Have you never picked lengths of putty out of a window with your fingernail? You can snap then into 3mm pieces. That's what I call inflexible (and useless). precisely and if mr meeow ever had to replace a broken pane of glass he would know all about removing old putty. |
Replacing window pane. 'Putty' recommendations.
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Replacing window pane. 'Putty' recommendations.
Stuart Noble wrote: The amazing thing is that some of it survives very well, but rarely on the bottom of the window where it is most needed. correct and if you examine old windows there is almost always a fine gap between the putty and the glass which allows the rain to get down to the wood and rot it. I have had to replace windows that were 30 years old and yet some old pitch pine windows are still sound after two hundred years. So his talk of window age is more down to the quality of the wood than the work of the putty. |
Replacing window pane. 'Putty' recommendations.
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Replacing window pane. 'Putty' recommendations.
Stuart Noble wrote:
wrote: Stuart Noble wrote: wrote: I thought acrylic sealants were generally not as long lived as silicone, which itself isnt longlived enough for wooden glazing. Linseed normally lasts over a century. It can fail of course, but as often as acrylic? I doubt it. Tests have shown that acrylics last for a thousand years Provide a cite for this manufacturer's test if it exists. However I suspect youre just being a time waster as always. Just taking the **** out of you for citing a century plus for linseed putty survival. on most 100 yr old houses most of the putty is still original, and still ok. Therefore the MTTF of linseed putty is 100 years. Only a time wasting fool like you could be incapable of grasping such a simple concept. NT |
Replacing window pane. 'Putty' recommendations.
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Replacing window pane. 'Putty' recommendations.
Stuart Noble wrote: wrote: on most 100 yr old houses most of the putty is still original Dream on he's right. my house is 250 years old and many windows still have their original putty but they are the ones on the sheltered side. The timber of course was far superior than the stuff they sell today. kiln dried pitch pine. If you sawed through a piece of it you can smell the resin in it as if it was fresh. |
Replacing window pane. 'Putty' recommendations.
wrote:
Stuart Noble wrote: wrote: on most 100 yr old houses most of the putty is still original Dream on he's right. my house is 250 years old and many windows still have their original putty but they are the ones on the sheltered side. The timber of course was far superior than the stuff they sell today. kiln dried pitch pine. If you sawed through a piece of it you can smell the resin in it as if it was fresh. Good for you, but to say *most* old houses still have their original putty is ridiculous, and how could you tell it was the original? Putty only does what you'd expect a mixture of a drying oil and chalk to do, namely dry out and become rock solid. This would not happen if you kept it in a plastic bag for 200 years or had some other way of excluding air from it on all sides. Pitch pine on one side and a coat of paint on the other may provide this protection but the paint film only survives in sheltered locations. |
Replacing window pane. 'Putty' recommendations.
Stuart Noble wrote:
wrote: Stuart Noble wrote: wrote: on most 100 yr old houses most of the putty is still original Dream on he's right. my house is 250 years old and many windows still have their original putty but they are the ones on the sheltered side. The timber of course was far superior than the stuff they sell today. kiln dried pitch pine. If you sawed through a piece of it you can smell the resin in it as if it was fresh. Good for you, but to say *most* old houses still have their original putty is ridiculous, and how could you tell it was the original? Putty only does what you'd expect a mixture of a drying oil and chalk to do, namely dry out and become rock solid. This would not happen if you kept it in a plastic bag for 200 years or had some other way of excluding air from it on all sides. Pitch pine on one side and a coat of paint on the other may provide this protection but the paint film only survives in sheltered locations. so you'll use 10 year mttf acrylic and I'll use 100 yr mttf linseed. Sounds like the right solution to me. NT |
Replacing window pane. 'Putty' recommendations.
wrote:
Stuart Noble wrote: wrote: Stuart Noble wrote: wrote: on most 100 yr old houses most of the putty is still original Dream on he's right. my house is 250 years old and many windows still have their original putty but they are the ones on the sheltered side. The timber of course was far superior than the stuff they sell today. kiln dried pitch pine. If you sawed through a piece of it you can smell the resin in it as if it was fresh. Good for you, but to say *most* old houses still have their original putty is ridiculous, and how could you tell it was the original? Putty only does what you'd expect a mixture of a drying oil and chalk to do, namely dry out and become rock solid. This would not happen if you kept it in a plastic bag for 200 years or had some other way of excluding air from it on all sides. Pitch pine on one side and a coat of paint on the other may provide this protection but the paint film only survives in sheltered locations. so you'll use 10 year mttf acrylic and I'll use 100 yr mttf linseed. Sounds like the right solution to me. Presumably you won't need to use either given the longevity of putty |
Replacing window pane. 'Putty' recommendations.
Stuart Noble wrote:
wrote: so you'll use 10 year mttf acrylic and I'll use 100 yr mttf linseed. Sounds like the right solution to me. Presumably you won't need to use either given the longevity of putty so you still dont understand mttf. What a surprise. NT |
Replacing window pane. 'Putty' recommendations.
wrote:
Stuart Noble wrote: wrote: so you'll use 10 year mttf acrylic and I'll use 100 yr mttf linseed. Sounds like the right solution to me. Presumably you won't need to use either given the longevity of putty so you still dont understand mttf. What a surprise. NT No, I'm not an engineer. The inappropriate use of the term here labels you as a pompous little ****. |
Replacing window pane. 'Putty' recommendations.
Stuart Noble wrote:
wrote: Stuart Noble wrote: wrote: so you'll use 10 year mttf acrylic and I'll use 100 yr mttf linseed. Sounds like the right solution to me. Presumably you won't need to use either given the longevity of putty so you still dont understand mttf. What a surprise. No, I'm not an engineer. The inappropriate use of the term here labels you as a pompous little ****. its the one and only term that describes it. Its the one and only concept that is key to the question under discssion. Hard to see how that would make it inappropriate. But no doubt you'll have some strange explanation. Which will be anything other than that you like to waste peoples time with your ignorance. I shall remember in future that knowing anything you dont makes me a pompous whatnot. I dont see what difference it makes really. But it is odd that you persist in arguing your point of view when not understanding the relevant concepts. NT |
Replacing window pane. 'Putty' recommendations.
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Replacing window pane. 'Putty' recommendations.
wrote:
wrote: I shall remember in future that knowing anything you dont makes me a pompous whatnot. I dont see what difference it makes really. But it is odd that you persist in arguing your point of view when not understanding the relevant concepts. the main point we were debating was the use of the putty against silicone. We all agree putty lasts a long time but it does let the rain in, it cracks up and is difficult to apply for a diy person and terribly difficult to remove in a broken glass situation. Silicone is easily applied and a perfect seal against the rain. A bed of silicone on the timber first and a finish outside the glass gives a terrific weather seal in a few minutes. 100 years ago they didnt have silicone and I dare say it they did you would be talking about the 100 year old silicone now. I agree with much of what you say, but its all minor in comparison to the real point, which is that linseed lasts many times as long as any of those alternatives. Thats what counts, and thats why a 100 year old house done with silicone would have more rot than one done with linseed. MTTF (mean time to failure) is all important. Linseed does not let rain in, not until its reached end of life. Nor is it diffcult to apply IME. I last applied it hanging out of a window semi- upside down, and had no difficulty doing so. NT |
Replacing window pane. 'Putty' recommendations.
wrote: I agree with much of what you say, but its all minor in comparison to the real point, which is that linseed lasts many times as long as any of those alternatives. Thats what counts, and thats why a 100 year old house done with silicone would have more rot than one done with linseed. MTTF (mean time to failure) is all important. Linseed does not let rain in, not until its reached end of life. Nor is it diffcult to apply IME. I last applied it hanging out of a window semi- upside down, and had no difficulty doing so. Silicone is untried for time because its relatively new in the market. nearly all my puttied windows have tiny gaps between the hard putty and the glass and this lets the rain down the glass to the wood. Its the same everywhere I look. you are probably handy at putting on putty but its tricky for a layman and most dont even know how to soften it. then its terrible to get off your hands and stinks. If you had to reputty your own window surely that proves that the putty wasnt up to the job you are saying it is. |
Replacing window pane. 'Putty' recommendations.
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Replacing window pane. 'Putty' recommendations.
Linseed should always be
overpainted where it meets the glass, this painting fills the hairline crack its prone to. It may sound a bit crude but it works well enough in practice. Look, the main requirement for any material sitting at the bottom of a sheet of glass where it joins a piece of wood has to be that it doesn't crack. Linseed putty cracks. Get over it. |
Replacing window pane. 'Putty' recommendations.
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Replacing window pane. 'Putty' recommendations.
MTTF of 100 yrs or more is perfectly consistent with some failures. It has failed when the first hairline crack appears |
Replacing window pane. 'Putty' recommendations.
Stuart Noble wrote:
Linseed should always be overpainted where it meets the glass, this painting fills the hairline crack its prone to. It may sound a bit crude but it works well enough in practice. Look, the main requirement for any material sitting at the bottom of a sheet of glass where it joins a piece of wood has to be that it doesn't crack. Linseed putty cracks. Get over it. Good luck with your acrylic then. |
Replacing window pane. 'Putty' recommendations.
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