American toilets
 

In article ,
Guy King wrote:

And it's not the drier that's broken - the person next in line has no
trouble - they just don't work for me.

What about mirrors? Do you reflect?

-- Richard

American toilets
 

On 2006-08-25 13:12:01 +0100, Linz said:

On 24 Aug 2006 23:00:13 GMT, Marcus Houlden
wrote:

A few options that these surveys never seem to consider is what happens if:

1. You don't wash your hands at all

2. You rinse them without soap

3. You wash (or rinse) them, use neither paper towel nor dryer, and let them
dry naturally

I read somewhere, possibly the Guardian, that if you wash your hands
under running water for 10 seconds, they will be as clean if you use
soap as if you don't.

If you read it in the Guardian, it is almost certainly suspect information

American toilets
 

On 2006-08-25 15:15:44 +0100, "Christian McArdle"
said:

I've noticed that toilets in hospitals *always* have paper towels and
pedal-operated bins. (Occasionally they have dryers in addition, but
they always provide paper towels.) I think that's strong evidence
that medical people consider paper towels to be the most hygienic
option.

Round here, they also have hygenic "dry" hand wash that doesn't require
towelling off. It is compulsory to wash your hands with it every time
you enter or leave a ward.

Christian.

I noticed that. It's a pity that the staff don't use it in many cases.

American toilets
 

On 2006-08-25 14:25:18 +0100, "Tournifreak" said:



I'm off to a conference in Cannes in a few weeks - I'll take a
screwdriver this time!

Watch out for the beer prices in hotels there. ‚¬10 is a typical rate
for 500ml.

American toilets
 

Round here, they also have hygenic "dry" hand wash that doesn't require
towelling off. It is compulsory to wash your hands with it every time you
enter or leave a ward.

I noticed that. It's a pity that the staff don't use it in many cases.

However, it did lead to the Royal Berkshire Hospital getting one of the best
scores for hospital cleanliness. They also now use rounded skirting (a bit
like upside down coving), including in front of cupboards, to make mopping
into the corners easier.

Christian.

American toilets
 

In article ews.net, Jerry
wrote:

No, your sort don't, neither do they like being reminded about how
much your Goddess (Thatcher) wasted during her 11 year tenure, or the
back handers that flowed...

Bless. I'm still convinced this is Drivel's sock puppet. Two posters can't
really be that uneducated can they?

--
AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems
http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk

American toilets
 

"Linz" wrote in message
...
snip

I read somewhere, possibly the Guardian, that if you wash your
hands
under running water for 10 seconds, they will be as clean if you
use
soap as if you don't.

Hmm, so there is really no need for Hospital operating room staff to
wash their hand with soap, let alone scrubbing them with
anti-bacterial soap. Sounds correct, considering the spread of
infections in modern hospitals....

American toilets
 

"Adam Funk" wrote in message
...
snip

I've noticed that toilets in hospitals *always* have paper towels
and
pedal-operated bins. (Occasionally they have dryers in addition,
but
they always provide paper towels.) I think that's strong evidence
that medical people consider paper towels to be the most hygienic
option.

Yes, but then Hospitals are a special case, AIUI no one has caught
MRSA (for example) from drying their hands with a hot air dryer -
personally I'm more concerned at needing to use door handles etc. in
service stations etc that in having to use a hot air dryer,
considering the number of people who don't even rinse their hands let
alone wash them... :~(

American toilets
 

Guy King typed

Shrewsbury pool's got sensor
switches on their showers - can't get them to work either - and yet
other people around me have no trouble.

You're obviously not big enough...

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

American toilets
 

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
...
Round here, they also have hygenic "dry" hand wash that doesn't require
towelling off. It is compulsory to wash your hands with it every time
you enter or leave a ward.

I noticed that. It's a pity that the staff don't use it in many cases.

However, it did lead to the Royal Berkshire Hospital getting one of the
best scores for hospital cleanliness. They also now use rounded skirting
(a bit like upside down coving), including in front of cupboards, to make
mopping into the corners easier.

Not meant as a "dig" at the NHS but why was it suddenly necessary to make
mopping the corners easier? In the "old days", we didn't have the
disinfectants we have now, and people generally were not so clean (MRSA is
carried into hospitals I understand, rather than always being there), but we
didn't have this sort of problem. I know that these bugs are resistant to
anti-biotics, and that this resistance develops over time, but surely, in
the old days, there was enough time, use of anti-biotics, not to mention
less understanding of the pathology, to allow things like MRSA to develop?

Brian

American toilets
 

"Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)" wrote in message
. ..
snip

Bless. I'm still convinced this is Drivel's sock puppet. Two
posters can't
really be that uneducated can they?


You are the sock puppet, one of Thatcher's many...

American toilets
 

In uk.d-i-y, Richard Tobin wrote:
In article ,
Guy King wrote:

And it's not the drier that's broken - the person next in line has no
trouble - they just don't work for me.

What about mirrors? Do you reflect?

Once I didn't reflect, and it was a pretty scary experience. I looked up
from washing my hands, and there was the entire gents toilet reflected
in the mirror, without me in it.

Made me come over all peculiar, I can tell you.

After what seemed like an age but probably amounted to a second or two,
I realised that there was no mirror; there were two rows of basins back-
to-back in the middle of a more-or-less symmetrical room.

--
Mike Barnes

American toilets
 

"Sam Nelson" wrote in message
...


My general practice is to wash my hands, rinse them well, touch as little
as
possible in order to leave the room, and let my hands dry by evaporation
in
the open air. Does that make me weird?

No, it puts you in the same sinsible category as us and it's better for the
environment too.

Mary
--
SAm.

American toilets
 

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
...
I've noticed that toilets in hospitals *always* have paper towels and
pedal-operated bins.

I haven't.

Round here, they also have hygenic "dry" hand wash that doesn't require
towelling off. It is compulsory to wash your hands with it every time you
enter or leave a ward.

Yes, no water involved at all.

Mary

Christian.

American toilets
 

"Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)" wrote in message
. ..
In article ews.net,
Jerry
wrote:

No, your sort don't, neither do they like being reminded about how
much your Goddess (Thatcher) wasted during her 11 year tenure, or the
back handers that flowed...

Bless. I'm still convinced this is Drivel's sock puppet. Two posters can't
really be that uneducated can they?

Oh Andy! You just don't recognise that his intellect is so superior to
everyone else's that we can't be expected to understand it.

Mary

--
AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems
http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk

American toilets
 

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net...

snip

No, it puts you in the same sinsible category as us and it's better
for the
environment too.


Do you use soap?

American toilets
 

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 16:08:24 GMT, "Brian Reay"
wrote:


However, it did lead to the Royal Berkshire Hospital getting one of the
best scores for hospital cleanliness. They also now use rounded skirting
(a bit like upside down coving), including in front of cupboards, to make
mopping into the corners easier.

Not meant as a "dig" at the NHS but why was it suddenly necessary to make
mopping the corners easier? In the "old days",

That's not a new idea. We had it in the showers at school Ca 1958.

we didn't have the
disinfectants we have now, and people generally were not so clean (MRSA is
carried into hospitals I understand, rather than always being there), but we
didn't have this sort of problem. I know that these bugs are resistant to
anti-biotics, and that this resistance develops over time,

Little by little since the war they have continuously lowered the
basic standards of hygiene in NHS hospitals and relied on antibiotics
to bale them out of the clag (so to speak). Naturally over use of
antibiotics has let to resistance.

http://www.leedstoday.net/ViewArticl...ticleID=876234

Beds have been moved closer together, (worse than that, in fact down
to rock bottom with PFI, beds so close together that feeler guages are
needed to get a crash trolley between the beds), and cleaning has been
reduced. More and more visiting has been allowed as standards of
cleanliness, behaviour and discipline in the community at large have
plummeted. So today we get visitors (often with a small child) going
to a hospital toilet that is swimming in bodily wastes and then going
to visit a sick relative, sitting on the bed and putting their feet up
on the counterpane and allowing the child, when it gets bored, to
wander round all the other beds talking to the other patients one
after another. Is there any wonder there is a lot of infection.

but surely, in the old days,

Antibiotics did not became available to the general populace untill
well after WW2. None for me when I had a mastoid infection in 1952.

there was enough time, use of anti-biotics, not to mention
less understanding of the pathology, to allow things like MRSA to develop?


The basic principles of infection control were known in Florence
Nightingales days. They used simple good housekeeping measures, space
between patients beds, isolation of infected patients, lots of
Hypochlorite Bleach, and Phenolic Disinfectants.

My father in law died of MRSA infection in St James's Hospital, Leeds
in the most appalling squallor. A venerable old lady in the next side
ward kept asking us about his condition, she was in for a hip
replacement, which had been successful and fortunately without
infection. She said she was still driving and had driven ambulances
during the war (when resources were limited and circumstances trying)
but in all her experience she had *never* seen a place as filthy. The
lift that took the patients down to theatre (accessible to the public)
was like a hoist in a rendering plant, spilt liquids, general litter
were never cleaned/removed in the 6 weeks we were visiting Father in
law. The area of floor under the lift buttons was worn through 2
layers of industrial vynil and (more worrying ) 3 laminations of
plywood. 8-(((

Somebody will be along here in minutes to microseconds saying it's all
Thatchers fault, it's because cleaning was privatised, but that's
tosh. All (most of ?) our private shopping malls are cleaned by
private cleaners on contract. Compare with a toilet in John Lewis. The
difference is that the NHS will put it out to tender and just take the
lowest bid. 2 or 3 bludgers off the dole queue will home in on the
fact that £30k seems to be fantastic amount of money to clean (say) 4
wards in a hospital for a year, so they put a bid in.

No sooner have they accepted the contract that they find they have to
pay for the necessary insurances, say £2,000,000 in public liabilty
insurance, + employer's liability + +, buy and maintain 2 or more
vehicles and 2 or more sets of cleaning equipment, and pay for their
consumables and find cover during sick/holidays.

It turns out they can't do it so they cut corners and this is not
detected (Like the dead bodies in the lady's toilets) because the
staff have become de-sensitised to working in circumstances like that.

http://www.paramedic.org.uk/news_arc...2-03.4737/view

http://snipurl.com/vgij

8-(

DG

American toilets
 

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 16:46:49 UTC, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

"Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)" wrote in message
. ..
In article ews.net,
Jerry
wrote:

No, your sort don't, neither do they like being reminded about how
much your Goddess (Thatcher) wasted during her 11 year tenure, or the
back handers that flowed...

Bless. I'm still convinced this is Drivel's sock puppet. Two posters can't
really be that uneducated can they?

Oh Andy! You just don't recognise that his intellect is so superior to
everyone else's that we can't be expected to understand it.

Actually, he comes across as Drivel, but without the benefit of having
attended nursery school...

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
Avenue Supplies, http://avenuesupplies.co.uk

American toilets
 

The message
from (Richard Tobin) contains these words:

And it's not the drier that's broken - the person next in line has no
trouble - they just don't work for me.

What about mirrors? Do you reflect?

I stop to contemplate occasionally.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

American toilets
 

The message
from Andy Hall contains these words:

I read somewhere, possibly the Guardian, that if you wash your hands
under running water for 10 seconds, they will be as clean if you use
soap as if you don't.

If you read it in the Guardian, it is almost certainly suspect information

If I wash my hands under running water for ten seconds then use soap the
water coming off is very grubby the second time.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

American toilets
 

"Derek ^" wrote in message
...
snip

Little by little since the war they have continuously lowered the
basic standards of hygiene in NHS hospitals and relied on
antibiotics
to bale them out of the clag (so to speak). Naturally over use of
antibiotics has let to resistance.

URL snip

Beds have been moved closer together, (worse than that, in fact
down
to rock bottom with PFI, beds so close together that feeler guages
are
needed to get a crash trolley between the beds), and cleaning has
been
reduced. More and more visiting has been allowed as standards of
cleanliness, behaviour and discipline in the community at large
have
plummeted.

Yes, very true, but who started all this crap were accountants were
allowed to tell the medical staff how to run the hospital - it's akin
to allowing the in-mates to run the asylum...

American toilets
 

The message
from Andy Hall contains these words:

Round here, they also have hygenic "dry" hand wash that doesn't require
towelling off. It is compulsory to wash your hands with it every time
you enter or leave a ward.

Christian.

I noticed that. It's a pity that the staff don't use it in many cases.

Challenge them on it. I did in Maidstone Hospital when Mum was in there
over Christmas. A cleaner didn't wash her hands and one of the nurses
heard me asking him to and gave him a rocket.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

American toilets
 

The message
from Mike Barnes contains these words:

Once I didn't reflect, and it was a pretty scary experience. I looked up
from washing my hands, and there was the entire gents toilet reflected
in the mirror, without me in it.

Made me come over all peculiar, I can tell you.

After what seemed like an age but probably amounted to a second or two,
I realised that there was no mirror; there were two rows of basins back-
to-back in the middle of a more-or-less symmetrical room.

That /is/ scary!

I lost the glass out of a motorbike mirror once. They're backed with
black rubber - very black indeed. I accelerated out of Otford[1] and
glancing in the mirror before overtaking a car found that the world
behind me had disappeared into a black hole. Only lasted a second or so,
but it was very very scary.

[1] Though in retrospect it was a nice place, as a teenager,
accelerating out of Otford seemed like the best thing to do.
--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

American toilets
 

Jerry wrote:
"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net...

snip

No, it puts you in the same sinsible category as us and it's better
for the
environment too.


Do you use soap?

Isn't alcohol better ( applied I mean) - Is not this common practice in
some hospitals?
Assuming that they know what they are doing.

American toilets
 

In article . com, Tournifreak
wrote:

I'm off to a conference in Cannes in a few weeks - I'll take a
screwdriver this time!

Trust I'm not teaching granny etc.....

Don't take the airport bus then. Very pricy. The train, which has a
coastline route is about a quarter of the price. Take the airport bus to
Nice Gare, 4 Euros, then the train runs quite often to Cannes.

If you want to eat at a sensible price, go back into Nice old town!

--
AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems
http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk

American toilets
 

In article , Sam Nelson
writes

My general practice is to wash my hands, rinse them well, touch as little as
possible in order to leave the room,

This is one of my bugbears. I'd be willing to bet that the filthiest
thing in most public loos is the handle on the inside of the door, which
everyone has to use on their way out, both those that wash their hands
and those that don't. It never seems to occur to cleaners to wash
and/or disinfect them.

I raised this issue with the cleaning manager at my local hospital and
was promised it would be looked into. Some hope.

--
(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.
http://www.thisisbunny.com/

American toilets
 

"Mike Barnes" wrote in message
...
In uk.d-i-y, Richard Tobin wrote:
In article ,
Guy King wrote:

And it's not the drier that's broken - the person next in line has no
trouble - they just don't work for me.

What about mirrors? Do you reflect?

Once I didn't reflect, and it was a pretty scary experience. I looked up
from washing my hands, and there was the entire gents toilet reflected
in the mirror, without me in it.

Made me come over all peculiar, I can tell you.

After what seemed like an age but probably amounted to a second or two,
I realised that there was no mirror; there were two rows of basins back-
to-back in the middle of a more-or-less symmetrical room.

I've done that. It's unnerving!

Mary

--
Mike Barnes

American toilets
 

On 2006-08-26 08:38:44 +0100, "Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)"
said:

In article . com, Tournifreak
wrote:

I'm off to a conference in Cannes in a few weeks - I'll take a
screwdriver this time!

Trust I'm not teaching granny etc.....

Don't take the airport bus then. Very pricy. The train, which has a
coastline route is about a quarter of the price. Take the airport bus to
Nice Gare, 4 Euros, then the train runs quite often to Cannes.

If you want to eat at a sensible price, go back into Nice old town!

There are some obscure prices in the area. It's cheaper to go from
Nice airport to Monte Carlo by helicopter than by taxi - not that going
to Monte Carlo is at all interesting - it's pretty much like the
subject line of this thread.

American toilets
 

"cramerj" typed



Jerry wrote:
"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net...

snip

No, it puts you in the same sinsible category as us and it's better
for the
environment too.


Do you use soap?

Isn't alcohol better ( applied I mean) - Is not this common practice in
some hospitals?
Assuming that they know what they are doing.

Alcohol is good for killing bugs and fair for removing junk from the
skin. No bug-killer gets much of a chance if there's junk on the skin.
Using sufficient alcohol to clean the skin uses something more expensive
than water and would dry out the skin.

Soap (or detergent) and water are better and cheaper for cleaning the hands.

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

American toilets
 

"Helen Deborah Vecht" wrote in message
...
"cramerj" typed



Jerry wrote:
"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net...

snip

No, it puts you in the same sinsible category as us and it's
better
for the
environment too.


Do you use soap?

snip

Soap (or detergent) and water are better and cheaper for cleaning
the hands.


Getting back to the original context to the question, also soap and
detergents are not good for the environment, so Mary's real concern
should not be about the use of a managed resource (wood) and it's
waste being bio-degradable or recyclable in nature but the use of
'toxic' soap!

American toilets
 

In article , Andy Hall
wrote:


There are some obscure prices in the area. It's cheaper to go from
Nice airport to Monte Carlo by helicopter

Approx 50E

than by taxi

Approx 75E

Airport bus to Cannes 13.70E
Airport bus to Nice 4.0 E

Can't remember the price to Cannes from Nice, but I do remember checking
that I had bought TWO tickets! It was something daft like 7E50 for two
singles.


--
AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems
http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk

American toilets
 

In article ,
Andy Hall writes:
There are some obscure prices in the area. It's cheaper to go from
Nice airport to Monte Carlo by helicopter than by taxi - not that going
to Monte Carlo is at all interesting - it's pretty much like the
subject line of this thread.

I used to go between Nice airport and Sophia Antipolis quite often
over the period 1989 - 1994, and similarly, cheapest route was by
helicopter, although over that distance taxi was only slightly more
expensive.

--
Andrew Gabriel

American toilets
 

In message , Huge
writes
On 2006-08-26, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
In article , Sam Nelson
writes

My general practice is to wash my hands, rinse them well, touch as little as
possible in order to leave the room,

This is one of my bugbears. I'd be willing to bet that the filthiest
thing in most public loos is the handle on the inside of the door, which
everyone has to use on their way out, both those that wash their hands
and those that don't.

Don't touch it. Dry your hands, take a paper towel, open the door
with it, then fold the "dirty" side inside and drop it in the next
waste paper basket you pass. Or use a piece of loo rool.

This might seem a little paranoid, but far too many people don't wash
their hands.

Trouble is you need to extend the process to all door handles, not just
the ones in the bog . . . and stuff like coins too . . . and handshaking
.. . . and, and, and, erk it's Howard Hughes time.

--
bof at bof dot me dot uk

American toilets
 

bof wrote:

Trouble is you need to extend the process to all door handles, not just
the ones in the bog . . . and stuff like coins too . . . and handshaking
. . . and, and, and, erk it's Howard Hughes time.

Quite. How many people get ill each year from touching toilet door
handles?

--
Something like: "ntlworld" "com" "dot" "at" "marypegg"

American toilets
 

In message , Mary Pegg
writes
bof wrote:

Trouble is you need to extend the process to all door handles, not just
the ones in the bog . . . and stuff like coins too . . . and handshaking
. . . and, and, and, erk it's Howard Hughes time.

Quite. How many people get ill each year from touching toilet door
handles?

I have to confess that every time I've been ill in recent years I have
touched a toilet door handle in the previous 24hrs, just goes to show
eh?


--
bof at bof dot me dot uk

American toilets
 

bof wrote:

I have to confess that every time I've been ill in recent years I have
touched a toilet door handle in the previous 24hrs, just goes to show
eh?

OTOH I know some people who fall ill who *haven't* touched a toilet
door handle in the previous 24 hours.

--
Something like: "ntlworld" "com" "dot" "at" "marypegg"

American toilets
 

In message , Mary Pegg
writes
bof wrote:

I have to confess that every time I've been ill in recent years I have
touched a toilet door handle in the previous 24hrs, just goes to show
eh?

OTOH I know some people who fall ill who *haven't* touched a toilet
door handle in the previous 24 hours.

Are they wannabe bears?

--
bof at bof dot me dot uk

American toilets
 

In article , bof
says...
In message , Mary Pegg
writes
bof wrote:
I have to confess that every time I've been ill in recent years I have
touched a toilet door handle in the previous 24hrs, just goes to show
eh?

OTOH I know some people who fall ill who *haven't* touched a toilet
door handle in the previous 24 hours.

Are they wannabe bears?

They're the people that didn't wash their hands in the first place.
--
SAm.

American toilets
 

In article ,
Mary Pegg writes:
bof wrote:

I have to confess that every time I've been ill in recent years I have
touched a toilet door handle in the previous 24hrs, just goes to show
eh?

OTOH I know some people who fall ill who *haven't* touched a toilet
door handle in the previous 24 hours.

OTOH, when they've fallen ill, they more than make up for it ;-)

--
Andrew Gabriel

American toilets
 

bof wrote:

In message , Mary Pegg
writes
bof wrote:

I have to confess that every time I've been ill in recent years I have
touched a toilet door handle in the previous 24hrs, just goes to show
eh?

OTOH I know some people who fall ill who *haven't* touched a toilet
door handle in the previous 24 hours.

Are they wannabe bears?

Nope; the toilets don't have doors.

--
Something like: "ntlworld" "com" "dot" "at" "marypegg"