In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
A car does 250 miles and he thinks it is not enough, maybe he wants to
go to Mars. Sad isn't it.

It is if you think Mars is just over 250 miles away. Which loonie website
have you been reading now?

Most people are happy driving about 500 miles in a day. Many modern cars
will do this on one tank - others can be refuelled in minutes. The ability
to re-charge electric cars in the same time is pie in the sky.

--
*If tennis elbow is painful, imagine suffering with tennis balls *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:56:51 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) through a haze of
senile flatulence wrote:

snip senile babble

Now we all know that driving an
IC car hard results in heavier fuel
consumption and of course the
same applies to an electric one.

Not to the same extent: by driving hard you mean a lot of accelerating and
braking, right? A well-designed electric car can recover a lot of the
kinetic energy put into accelerating through regenerative braking which an
IC cannot.

Read the article in the first post:

"He wanted something that was fast but still got good mileage. He quickly
learned that high performance and fuel efficiency are mutually exclusive, at
least when it comes to internal combustion engines. So he started
researching alternative technologies and soon realized it was actually
possible for an electric car to combine zip and efficiency. The problem:
Nobody was making one."

It goes on....

"The EV1, General Motors' electric car, had failed, in part because it was
expensive and poorly marketed. Most crippling, though, was the
underperformance of the original lead-acid batteries and even the second-gen
nickel metal hydride cells. Consumers wanted a vehicle that had a range
greater than the EV1's (at best) 130 miles. The common wisdom was that
batteries just weren't there yet.

But what did Detroit know about batteries? Eberhard had squeezed 20 hours of
run time out of the little power pack on his eBook. Battery efficiency was
an obsession among computer engineers, who were extracting more power from
ever-smaller cells with each generation of laptops. GM seemed oblivious to
the lessons emerging from the electronics industry. Eberhard began to think
that if anybody was going to build a viable electric car, it would be a
Silicon Valley engineer. "

In article ,
Derek ^ wrote:
The price has been set, deposits are being taken and the first delivered
will be around September.

That's only 5 weeks away.

I would have thought there would have been some evidence of some
pre-launch stock about by now. Fields full of finished cars.

And what's more lots of publicity in the quality motoring press. If such a
major breakthrough existed.

--
*To be intoxicated is to feel sophisticated, but not be able to say it.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"nightjar .uk.com" nightjar@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...


Yes I suppose the electric car does it crapping elsewhere.. at the power
station?....

Indeed. There are some advantages to that, in that it is easier to treat a
lot of pollution in one place, than it is to treat small amounts of
pollution in lots of places.

Yep.

However, the inefficiencies in the systems mean that, a couple of years
ago, it was demonstrated that an electric car produced three times as much
pollution as a modern internal combustion engine powered car.

Nonsense. That was probably a worse case scenario. Modern generating
equipment, transmissions, localised power stations, modern batteries in cars
etc, proves that is total balls.

OTOH, car manufacturers are also continually improving their products

They are? That's new to me.

so that driving a modern five litre vehicle I am producing far less
pollution than I was when driving around in my average saloon car in the
1960s.

It still wastes 75% of the energy in the tank. No change there. Despite
being cleaner than the 1960s cars they still pollute like hell. Look at the
big picture for once.

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:04:09 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

That 'they' are going for premium performance and price says a lot about
just how viable the project is. The profit margin in this sector is
enormous. It isn't for family cars.

Bit like colour telly then: way too
expensive ever to make the mass market :-)

Yep. Colour telly will never catch on, neither will personal computers.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

A car does 250 miles and he thinks
it is not enough, maybe he wants to
go to Mars. Sad isn't it.

It is if you think Mars

He does want to go to Mars. Amazing. With his loafers on too.

In article ,
John Stumbles wrote:
The trouble is electric car makers and their advocates always quote
the best possible range and best possible performance without making
it clear the two can't happen at the same time. To fool the gullible
like dribble, who already thinks it's possible to exceed 100%
efficiency. Now we all know that driving an IC car hard results in
heavier fuel consumption and of course the same applies to an electric
one.

Not to the same extent: by driving hard you mean a lot of accelerating
and braking, right? A well-designed electric car can recover a lot of
the kinetic energy put into accelerating through regenerative braking
which an IC cannot.

It would be perfectly possible to recover the kinetic energy lost in
braking with a conventional IC car - after all buses do it. It's a
question of economics. True it's probably cheaper in an electric car by
using the motors as generators, but they will still have conventional
brakes.

--
*What boots up must come down *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ,
Derek ^ wrote:
The price has been set, deposits are being taken and the first delivered
will be around September.

That's only 5 weeks away.

I would have thought there would have been some evidence of some
pre-launch stock about by now. Fields full of finished cars.

And what's more lots of publicity in the quality motoring press.

Richard Cranium here thinks there is a quality motoring press. Thee is no
such thing, as they are bought out by the big auto companies who hold them
to ransom over advertising.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ,
John Stumbles wrote:
It is actually. Drive to the in-laws 200 miles away and while they
feed you another 250 miles is being fed into the thing from their
socket,

On the planet I live on not many people's in-laws have a 70 Amp socket
outlet.

He is obviously hot a bothered. The care they give him is substandard that
is for sure. He should be out in his loafers.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Basically, the sort of BS we've all read before many many times.

That might be a good point to remind people what Adam (aka IMM, aka
Drivel) said in May 2000 [1]:

I have mentioned this point in other posts on this thread. Car
propulsion system are to change radically in the next 5 years or so
with the fuel cell being introduced.

Well, six years later...

[1]
http://groups.google.com/group/uk.d-...e=source&hl=en

--
Andy

"Slurp" wrote in message
...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

Then the Toshiba batteries are to be introduced that can take 80% of the
charge in 3 minutes and full in 5.

mmmmm lets think about that - 50kWh battery charged in 5 mins - sounds
good.

--- where do I plug it in - that's 2608A at 230V - may be I can tap into
the 440kV overhead lines?

Charging stations that would used capacitors charged overnight.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
(assuming you meant "Bye Bye", as in the end of the IC...

Yep. I can't wait to see the back of them.

But seem to advocate
a Stirling engine a few posts ago?
Perhaps you think
that's not an IC engine...

Richard Cranium, the Stirluing is an external combustion engine (EC), not
internal combustion (IC).

Best you get out with those loafers on.

snip not and bothered senile ramblings

I hope he cleans the doggy doos off his loafer before he goes out.

"Andy Wade" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Basically, the sort of BS we've all read before many many times.

That might be a good point to remind people what Adam (aka IMM, aka
Drivel) said in May 2000 [1]:

I have mentioned this point in other posts on this thread. Car
propulsion system are to change radically in the next 5 years or so
with the fuel cell being introduced.

Well, six years later...

[1]
http://groups.google.com/group/uk.d-...e=source&hl=en

This is fabulous. Our lecky nerd is educating himself on the wisdom of past
posts. Fabulous Keep it Nerdy. Keep it up.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ,
John Stumbles wrote:

Not to the same extent: by driving hard you mean a lot of accelerating
and braking, right? A well-designed electric car can recover a lot of
the kinetic energy put into accelerating through regenerative braking
which an IC cannot.

It would be perfectly possible to recover the kinetic energy lost in
braking with a conventional IC car - after all buses do it. It's a
question of economics. True it's probably cheaper in an electric car by
using the motors as generators, but they will still have conventional
brakes.

Richard Cranium, the Prius has regen brakes and mechanical as backup. The
problem in California is that the discs rust as the mechanic brakes never
operate. I slam mine on occasionally to make sure they operate.

Now make sure the doggy doos is off your loafers before you go out.

Doctor Drivel wrote:

This is fabulous. Our lecky nerd is educating himself on the wisdom of

TMBSNMOTW "wisdom" WWIWNPF.

--
Andy

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Slurp" wrote in message
...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

Then the Toshiba batteries are to be introduced that can take 80% of the
charge in 3 minutes and full in 5.

mmmmm lets think about that - 50kWh battery charged in 5 mins - sounds
good.

--- where do I plug it in - that's 2608A at 230V - may be I can tap into
the 440kV overhead lines?

Charging stations that would used capacitors charged overnight.

Point me to a capacitor that can hold 50kWh (that's 180MJ if it helps).

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
But what did Detroit know about batteries? Eberhard had squeezed 20
hours of run time out of the little power pack on his eBook.

But what - and this is the important bit - does Eberhard (sounds like a
porn star) know about cars?

--
*It's this dirty because I washed it with your wife's knickers*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Andy Wade wrote:
Basically, the sort of BS we've all read before many many times.

That might be a good point to remind people what Adam (aka IMM, aka
Drivel) said in May 2000 [1]:

I have mentioned this point in other posts on this thread. Car
propulsion system are to change radically in the next 5 years or so
with the fuel cell being introduced.

Well, six years later...

[1]
http://groups.google.com/group/uk.d-...e=source&hl=en

Of course he didn't actually *say* these things - merely repeated and
believes what he reads on a website or ad. It's common with those who have
no basic engineering sense. 'Now for the science'...

Next he'll be claiming to have a 2ft long penis...

--
*On the seventh day He brewed beer *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Then the Toshiba batteries are to be introduced that can take 80% of
the charge in 3 minutes and full in 5.

mmmmm lets think about that - 50kWh battery charged in 5 mins - sounds
good.

--- where do I plug it in - that's 2608A at 230V - may be I can tap
into the 440kV overhead lines?

Charging stations that would used capacitors charged overnight.

So you charge one battery slowly to charge another fast? Very sound
engineering...

--
*I have my own little world - but it's OK...they know me here*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
the Stirluing is

[snipped for obvious reasons]

Must be foaming at the mouth by now...

--
*What do little birdies see when they get knocked unconscious? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Richard Cranium, the Prius has regen brakes and mechanical as backup.
The problem in California is that the discs rust as the mechanic brakes
never operate.

Oh dear - they hadn't thought of that? Another example of poor design,
then?

I slam mine on occasionally to make sure they operate.

Yes - but what do you do with your brakes?

--
*A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Slurp wrote:
Charging stations that would used capacitors charged overnight.

Point me to a capacitor that can hold 50kWh (that's 180MJ if it helps).

When did such things concern dribble, or the cost? It might be around one
day and that's good enough for him.

--
*Certain frogs can be frozen solid, then thawed, and survive *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

But what did Detroit know about batteries? Eberhard had squeezed 20
hours of run time out of the little power pack on his eBook.

But what

more snipped senility

I wonder if therapy can help him. The drugs are not developed yet.

"Andy Wade" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

This is fabulous. Our lecky nerd is educating himself on the wisdom of

TMBSNMOTW "wisdom" WWIWNPF.

Oh look! Our nerd is talking in capital letters. Isn't that fun!!

"Slurp" wrote in message
...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Slurp" wrote in message
...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

Then the Toshiba batteries are to be introduced that can take 80% of
the charge in 3 minutes and full in 5.

mmmmm lets think about that - 50kWh battery charged in 5 mins - sounds
good.

--- where do I plug it in - that's 2608A at 230V - may be I can tap into
the 440kV overhead lines?

Charging stations that would used capacitors charged overnight.

Point me to a capacitor that can hold 50kWh (that's 180MJ if it helps).

They are existing in the US I believe.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Then the Toshiba batteries are to be introduced that can take 80% of
the charge in 3 minutes and full in 5.

mmmmm lets think about that -
50kWh battery charged in 5 mins - sounds
good.

--- where do I plug it in - that's 2608A
at 230V - may be I can tap
into the 440kV overhead lines?

Charging stations that would used capacitors charged overnight.

So you

snip senile babble, yet again

They shouldn't be allowed to keep them all day like he has been. He must
have fresh air on a days like this. I blame Thatcher for all this.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
the Stirling is


snip total incoherrent senile babble & drivel

This is sad isn't it.

On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 11:48:08 +0100, Andy Hall wrote:

On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 11:31:20 +0100, Doctor Drivel wrote
(in article ews.net):



The Internet was relatively overnight. The DNS server is actually in Fort
Knox, that is how important the Internet is to modern living. Within 5
years it was well established an indispensable.


Another classic.

I trust you're collecting these for posterity Andy? There must be a
moderately amusing paperback to be made of Dr D's assertions
and predictions!

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
the Stirluing is

[snipped for obvious reasons]

Must be foaming at the mouth by now...


LMAO!

On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 13:51:10 GMT, John Stumbles
wrote:

On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 11:48:08 +0100, Andy Hall wrote:

On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 11:31:20 +0100, Doctor Drivel wrote
(in article ews.net):



The Internet was relatively overnight. The DNS server is actually in Fort
Knox, that is how important the Internet is to modern living. Within 5
years it was well established an indispensable.


Another classic.

I trust you're collecting these for posterity Andy? There must be a
moderately amusing paperback to be made of Dr D's assertions
and predictions!

Erich von Driveliken
The Prius of the Gods



--
Regards, Paul Herber, Sandrila Ltd. http://www.pherber.com/
http://www.sandrila.co.uk/

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Slurp" wrote in message
...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Slurp" wrote in message
...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

Then the Toshiba batteries are to be introduced that can take 80% of
the charge in 3 minutes and full in 5.

mmmmm lets think about that - 50kWh battery charged in 5 mins - sounds
good.

--- where do I plug it in - that's 2608A at 230V - may be I can tap
into the 440kV overhead lines?

Charging stations that would used capacitors charged overnight.

Point me to a capacitor that can hold 50kWh (that's 180MJ if it helps).

They are existing in the US I believe.


Is that Uranus or Saturn?

On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 14:51:10 +0100, John Stumbles wrote
(in article ):

On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 11:48:08 +0100, Andy Hall wrote:

On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 11:31:20 +0100, Doctor Drivel wrote
(in article ews.net):



The Internet was relatively overnight. The DNS server is actually in Fort
Knox, that is how important the Internet is to modern living. Within 5
years it was well established an indispensable.


Another classic.

I trust you're collecting these for posterity Andy? There must be a
moderately amusing paperback to be made of Dr D's assertions
and predictions!


This one did seem especially noteworthy.

In a Google search, the only reference connecting DNS to Fort Knox seems to
be for a Department of Nursing Science.

Perhaps therein lies a tale....

"Slurp" wrote in message
...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Slurp" wrote in message
...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Slurp" wrote in message
...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

Then the Toshiba batteries are to be introduced that can take 80% of
the charge in 3 minutes and full in 5.

mmmmm lets think about that - 50kWh battery charged in 5 mins - sounds
good.

--- where do I plug it in - that's 2608A at 230V - may be I can tap
into the 440kV overhead lines?

Charging stations that would used capacitors charged overnight.

Point me to a capacitor that can hold 50kWh (that's 180MJ if it helps).

They are existing in the US I believe.

Is that Uranus or Saturn?

Whatever planet you think you are on.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,

Must be foaming at the mouth by now...

Richard, was the doggy that did the doos foaming at the mouth very hard?

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 11:48:08 +0100, Andy Hall wrote:

On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 11:31:20 +0100, Doctor Drivel wrote
(in article ews.net):



The Internet was relatively overnight. The DNS server is actually in
Fort
Knox, that is how important the Internet is to modern living. Within 5
years it was well established an indispensable.

Another classic.

I trust you're collecting these for posterity Andy? There must be a
moderately amusing paperback to be made of Dr D's assertions
and predictions!

Didn't know what I told you, did you? Such a thicko. You and Matt/Lord
Hall deserve each other. Both of you are from grotty little towns anyway.

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 11:48:08 +0100, Andy Hall wrote:

On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 11:31:20 +0100, Doctor Drivel wrote
(in article ews.net):

The Internet was relatively overnight. The DNS server is actually in
Fort Knox, that is how important the Internet is to modern living.
Within 5
years it was well established an indispensable.

Another classic.

I trust you're collecting these for posterity Andy?

Or you putting wood behind a shower. Yep, we have em all here. You should
read and you will learn a lot especially about heating and water systems.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Mike Dodd wrote:
Oh, and if you think oil was scarce, try the Lithium used in the
batteries. Replace all ICs with lithium powered electric and I think
you'll hit a minor snag.


I think you will find that a large part of the earth's crust is made of
lithium actually. One of the most common elements.

http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pu...lithimcs06.pdf

For a US centric view on world lithium reserves..that totally ignores Asia.


Ah, I did refute my own statement, about 20 minutes before you. Server
lag and if you'd already downloaded headers then understandable. My poor
and hungover memory was the electronics shortage of tantalum. Still,
there has been a gap between supply and demand a couple of years ago -
but that seems to be resolved now. Yes, I probably followed the same
link as you to the above from Wiki (I was sure I'd got something wrong
and needed to quickly research). Then I got sidetracked onto something
within Wiki that discussed the use of lithium in nuclear weapons, which
sounded all the more interesting.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 11:31:20 +0100, Doctor Drivel wrote
(in article ews.net):


...Lord Hall wears a top hat, this is clearly so
...Lord Hall thinks the top hat is trendy and the go
...Lord Hall wears the top hat all through the week
...and the dead mouse upon his lip don't half reak
...he doesn't know it's there, as dead mice don't squeak

I wonder if Makita have a mussie removal attachment.

On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 14:13:58 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
But what did Detroit know about batteries? Eberhard had squeezed 20
hours of run time out of the little power pack on his eBook.

But what - and this is the important bit - does Eberhard (sounds like a
porn star) know about cars?

That's not the point: what's important is that it sounds as if he _knew_
that he knew nothing[1] about car design and handed that side of the job
over to people with the expertise, in this case Lotus.



[1] Oh! that a certain contributor to this group were so enlightened.
Then he might be making something like this instead of drooling about it.

Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Mike Dodd" wrote in message
...


(assuming you meant "Bye Bye", as in the end of the IC...

Yep. I can't wait to see the back of them.






Please note that I'll welcome the day that electric replaced IC - but
that day isn't here yet, nor will it be in 18 months with the release
of the saloon. With the recharging limitations of this technology you
need to be looking at something like a three-fold range improvement
before you can start scrapping the IC.

You are a very negative person. Do you think the world is going to end
soon too?


Hmmm, you seem to have a rather bipolar view. Maybe you should rethink
where the lithium is best used.