"Slurp" wrote in message
...

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Where are you going to do 130mph for 20 miles?


If I was in a hurry that would just about get me to the nearest Tesco's -
but then I would have to catch a bus back.

What would be the range of a Ferrari when it does 130mph continuously? At
130mph it will be in single figures, so not long at all.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

He is confused you know - the weather and all that takes its toll on
them. Currently electric motors assist an IC engine in hybrids. In an
EV, a Stirling would only be charging and doing ancillary electrical
work.

Sad,

He is sad in this weather. They take him down to Southend and let him play
on the dodgems and cool off in the water.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
He is confused you know - the weather and all that takes its toll on
them. Currently electric motors assist an IC engine in hybrids. In an
EV, a Stirling would only be charging and doing ancillary electrical
work.

You think you've invented perpetual motion.

Well we know you are into perpetual senility that is clear.

Sad isn't it. They should take him to a caravan site near Margate. That
will do him the world of good. He will think the caravan is moving while he
is in it, brum, brum, brum.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ,
mrcheerful
. wrote:
This would be why Toyota have dropped the Stirling cycle engine on all
their new designs after it proved so uneconomical in the Prius?

60 mpg is uneconomic?

Try 35

Sad isn't it. The topic is the new EV and he on about something else,
whatever it is. I hope they make a breakthrough with drugs to cure all
this.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
This car is in the Porche category and outperforms it in every
way; it is the "same" price in the USA.

It's not on sale.

We really do need a breakthrough in drugs for senility. We really do.

Tim S wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


Everyone and his dog announce an electric car every few years as 'the
technology is now here' Except that it's not, and is a long way off at an
economic price to replace the IC engine. And of course domestic
electricity isn't taxed unlike road fuels. So if it became the norm for
road use the price advantage would soon disappear.


I don't know. They'd have to apply duty to all electricity then - it's not
like you can stick a chemical marker on the electrons. I suspect duty on
all electricity would be a real vote killer.


The saiod that bout heting oil and diesel..


You KNOW what it will be. the cars will come with a special plug that
ONLY fits a separately metered socket...which has a telltale that sends
details on what car is plugged into it back to Big Brother Central...and
the car will come equipped with a WiFi point that constantly talks to
Big Brother recording its electricity consumption, and if it doesn't
match the charger or you have excceded any speed limit at all, 16
policemen with dum dum equipped handguns will descend on you at 3am and
there will be an 'understandable mistake'

I was wondering about the 70A charging mentioned earlier too. 63A would be
more convenient as there are plugs and sockets already available at this
rating. In theory the RECs should love this, if the car could be charged on
a timer overnight when other demands are low.


50KWh at 250v is only 200A/h..most people with off road parking would
probably trickle charge overnight every night..15 hours at 13A is enough
to fully charge.

I've always suspected that an electric car could kick the nads off IC
engined types. Motor and control technology is already pretty polished -
problem has always been with storing enough electricity. Back in the 80's
someone developed a sodium battery that was supposed to be the answer. Then
there were batteries based on aluminium. This one does sound a bit more
hopeful as it is using mainstream technology - the residual problem 1 now
being cost - but we've seen many cases where that's sorted itself out
(early mobile phones were not cheap for example).


Exactly. Lithium - if you look at the energy density (energy per unit
weight) - is about the best metal to use apart from sodium. Current
lithoum batteries arer about twice the wight of the theoretical best
performance, so there is a bit top come there.

Already charge cycle efficiences of a lot better than 90% are achievable
at the battery (current CHARGERS are not optimised for effciency) anfd
dischrage rates of the order of 5-10 times ampere hour capacity are
already achiveable..i.e. a 50KW hour pack can deliver bursts of
250-500KW - well in excess of 700 bhp. Electric motors and controllers
can easily achieve 90% efficiency as well, and if regenerative braking
is used, that further improves the 'stop start' efficiency. The
batteries will do around 3-5 years and 300-500 cycles CURRENTLY and
there is room for improvement Charge retention is good..no going flat in
a few weeks - more like a year..

Assuming ready supplies of cheap non fossil electricity, this means the
whole thing is technically FEASIBLE..only battery cost, plus generating
capacity is holding it all back.

I believe an Electric SMART car is being shown at the motor shows later
in the year. This will be interesting.


Problem 2 is infrastructure - for this to really take off, you need to have
top up points available, probably at roadside cafes or car parks. Not
insoluble.


Yes. A LOT easier than building a hydrogen infrastructure.

Star with TESCOS car parks, probably. A 50-70A charge point with a
credit card interface should be relatively simple..


Cheers

Tim

Slurp wrote:
"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...
"Derek ^" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 23:29:46 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

I wouldn't bet the former, but would bet the latter. In bulk I could
probably get lithium cells at 50c a watt-hour..that's around $15,000
for a
30KWh pack...

http://www.wired.com/news/wiredmag/0,71414-0.html?tw=wn_story_page_prev2
This car competes with the Porche types, outperforms them, is simpler and
super quiet.......and is the same price.
It's not the same price because there aren't any to buy.

You can't buy one at any price.
The price has been set, deposits are being taken and the first delivered
will be around September.


Anybody can set a price, take deposits/specify a delivery date for a fantasy
widget.


Clive Sinclair springs to mind...

In article ,
Tim S wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


Everyone and his dog announce an electric car every few years as 'the
technology is now here' Except that it's not, and is a long way off at
an economic price to replace the IC engine. And of course domestic
electricity isn't taxed unlike road fuels. So if it became the norm
for road use the price advantage would soon disappear.

I don't know. They'd have to apply duty to all electricity then - it's
not like you can stick a chemical marker on the electrons. I suspect
duty on all electricity would be a real vote killer.

Other ways of getting the tax revenue - which believe me they can't afford
to lose. Road pricing is the obvious one and remove direct taxation on
petrol and diesel. At the moment there are so few electric cars it's just
good publicity for the government to allow them to be cheaper to run per
mile. But if they became popular - let alone the norm - things will soon
change.

I was wondering about the 70A charging mentioned earlier too. 63A would
be more convenient as there are plugs and sockets already available at
this rating. In theory the RECs should love this, if the car could be
charged on a timer overnight when other demands are low.

I doubt the existing grid structure could cope with charging every single
vehicle in the country overnight.

I've always suspected that an electric car could kick the nads off IC
engined types.

It depends entirely on how much power you give it - same as an IC engined
one. Or perhaps the land speed record for a wheel driven vehicle is
already held by an electric car? ;-)

Motor and control technology is already pretty polished - problem has
always been with storing enough electricity. Back in the 80's someone
developed a sodium battery that was supposed to be the answer. Then
there were batteries based on aluminium. This one does sound a bit more
hopeful as it is using mainstream technology - the residual problem 1
now being cost - but we've seen many cases where that's sorted itself
out (early mobile phones were not cheap for example).

It's as I said - there's always a new battery technology just round the
corner which will 'solve the problem'. But it ain't arrived yet for
general use. It will when you can store approx the same amount of energy
(adjusted for the higher efficiency of an electric motor) as the average
petrol tank in a reasonable volume, weight and cost.

The trouble is electric car makers and their advocates always quote the
best possible range and best possible performance without making it clear
the two can't happen at the same time. To fool the gullible like dribble,
who already thinks it's possible to exceed 100% efficiency. Now we all
know that driving an IC car hard results in heavier fuel consumption and
of course the same applies to an electric one.

Problem 2 is infrastructure - for this to really take off, you need to
have top up points available, probably at roadside cafes or car parks.
Not insoluble.

If you had an electric vehicle with the same sort of range under real
world driving as an IC one, which can be charged at home, you'd probably
not need many 'filling stations'. They would have to charge for supplying
the facility, so would only be used on long journeys where they'd be
essential.

Cheers

Tim

--
*Dance like nobody's watching.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Mike Dodd wrote:

Oh, and if you think oil was scarce, try the Lithium used in the
batteries. Replace all ICs with lithium powered electric and I think
you'll hit a minor snag.

My mistake - I was thinking about tantalum shortages in industry, partly
because of ore shortages, back in the early 2000's. It does sound like
lithium is more sustainable.

"Tim S" wrote in message
...

I was wondering about the 70A charging
mentioned earlier too. 63A would be
more convenient as there are plugs and
sockets already available at this
rating. In theory the RECs should love this,
if the car could be charged on
a timer overnight when other demands are low.

They have a patented power charger unit for a domestic home.

I've always suspected that an electric
car could kick the nads off IC engined
types. Motor and control technology is
already pretty polished - problem has always
been with storing enough electricity.

The unique aspect of this car is the power (or is it energy) management of
the batteries and electrical equipment in the car.

Problem 2 is infrastructure - for this to
really take off, you need to have
top up points available, probably at
roadside cafes or car parks. Not
insoluble.

France already has much of this in place. in the likes of La Rochelle.

"Slurp" wrote in message
...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Derek ^" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 23:29:46 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

I wouldn't bet the former, but would bet the latter. In bulk I could
probably get lithium cells at 50c a watt-hour..that's around $15,000
for a
30KWh pack...

http://www.wired.com/news/wiredmag/0,71414-0.html?tw=wn_story_page_prev2

This car competes with the Porche types, outperforms them, is simpler
and
super quiet.......and is the same price.

It's not the same price because there aren't any to buy.

You can't buy one at any price.

The price has been set, deposits are being taken and the first delivered
will be around September.

Anybody can set a price, take deposits/specify a delivery date for a
fantasy widget.

We shall see. It maybe a con, but read up on the outfit (do a Google on
Tesla Motors), with Lotus on board tooled up to manufacture, as are the
component suppliers, the backing they have, etc, and something tells me this
is no con trick.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
We haven't. This car is in the Porche category and outperforms it in
every way; it is the "same" price in the USA.

That 'they' are going for premium performance and price says a lot about
just how viable the project is. The profit margin in this sector is
enormous. It isn't for family cars.

Porsche sports cars (that's how it's spelt, BTW) sell mainly on driving
pleasure - they're in no way a practical everyday vehicle. And the
majority of those who buy them are very unlikely to be tempted by an
electric vehicle to replace them.

--
*Vegetarians taste great*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Mike Dodd wrote:
$80,000 price?, say £55,000 on an optimistic $:£ technology ratio.

But it never happens. Every US car sold here costs about the same in gbp
numbers as dollars. Which is why they are so rare and poor value.

--
*Learn from your parents' mistakes - use birth control

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Mike Dodd wrote:
Doctor Drivel wrote:
http://www.teslamotors.com/

Made by Lotus and will do low flying. A saloon available in around 18
months time. Well by, by, internal combustion engine.

http://www.wired.com/news/wiredmag/0...ory_page_prev2


(assuming you meant "Bye Bye", as in the end of the IC...

Still very limited - such that for most people it could not replace a
conventional IC car 100%.

$80,000 price?, say £55,000 on an optimistic $:£ technology ratio.

250 miles for a 2 seater driven frugally, then a specialised 3.5 hr
recharging time. Hmmm, there goes the weekend trips. Still, no boot
space to support a weekend trip.

The saloon is expected to have a significantly reduced range, due at
least in part to the increased weight. Less range (still with a 3.5 hr
recharge time) - less practical.

Oh, and if you think oil was scarce, try the Lithium used in the
batteries. Replace all ICs with lithium powered electric and I think
you'll hit a minor snag.


I think you will find that a large part of the earth's crust is made of
lithium actually. One of the most common elements.

http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pu...lithimcs06.pdf

For a US centric view on world lithium reserves..that totally ignores Asia.


Maybe a nice toy for whacking around country lanes, and for the local
commute. Beyond that and it is simply not practicable.

Not today, no.

But consider...IF the cars were not sold, but leased, and the overall
operational cost and fuel cost was less than - say - a small commuter
car, and you need a second car to commute with..


Please note that I'll welcome the day that electric replaced IC - but
that day isn't here yet, nor will it be in 18 months with the release of
the saloon. With the recharging limitations of this technology you need
to be looking at something like a three-fold range improvement before
you can start scrapping the IC.

Close, but no cigar.


I agree its not - like the Internet - going to be an overnight thing.

I can' remember when the first Internet pipe from the UK to Holland
opened up..mid 90's. we all yelled 'this could be he real thing; but
everybody else was saying 'rubbish. X-25 is the future' Then we had the
hype boom in 1998-2000, then a realization that it would take tome, but
now, maybe 10 years or so after the first decent IP infrastructure was
laid in the UK, we take it completely for granted. I get for £20 a month
today what would have cost £20,000 a year or more then.


Whatever happened to hydrogen fuel cells?

Same as X-25 really. The wrong track that the big boys will take for all
the wrong reasons. That will quietly get sidelined because in the end
the cost benefit will not stack up to electric battery except in a few
cases.

Look at Microsoft exchange. Its an X400 mail server with IP stuck on the
back end. How many users use X400 these days?

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
What would be the range of a Ferrari when it does 130mph continuously?
At 130mph it will be in single figures, so not long at all.

Another figure plucked from thin air. Since you're so good at quoting
other's figures please give a source for this one.

--
*Rehab is for quitters.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Mike Dodd" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:
http://www.teslamotors.com/

Made by Lotus and will do low flying. A saloon available in around 18
months time. Well by, by, internal combustion engine.

http://www.wired.com/news/wiredmag/0...ory_page_prev2


(assuming you meant "Bye Bye", as in the end of the IC...

Yep. I can't wait to see the back of them.

Still very limited - such that for most people it could not replace a
conventional IC car 100%.

A Fiesta type of car would not require a two speed gearbox as this sporty
one has, be very simple, so simple to make and run (no servicing) that
manufacturing costs will drop. The range would be there. The only initial
drawback is the charging points, which would be overcome.

$80,000 price?, say £55,000 on an optimistic $:£ technology ratio.

It is the same price as a Porche, its direct competitor. Sounds good to me.

250 miles for a 2 seater driven frugally,

Frugally? Where did you get that? The aim was car that performs the same,
or better than existing cars and with range.

then a specialised 3.5 hr recharging time. Hmmm, there goes the weekend
trips. Still, no boot space to support a weekend trip.

It is sports job, not a family tourer.

The saloon is expected to have a significantly reduced range, due at least
in part to the increased weight. Less range (still with a 3.5 hr recharge
time) - less practical.

Reduced range? You made that up. It would not require the gearbox and they
say by the time they introduce one (probably made in Malaysia by Proton as
they own Lotus) battery technology will be better. They know what is being
tested but not yet in the shops yet.

Oh, and if you think oil was scarce, try the Lithium used in the
batteries. Replace all ICs with lithium powered electric and I think
you'll hit a minor snag.

What I have read that is not a problem. Also, newer battery technologies
are emerging without Lithium.

Maybe a nice toy for whacking around country lanes, and for the local
commute.

That is its market. Sports cars are toys.

Beyond that and it is simply not practicable.

It is actually. Drive to the in-laws 200 miles away and while they feed you
another 250 miles is being fed into the thing from their socket,

Please note that I'll welcome the day that electric replaced IC - but that
day isn't here yet, nor will it be in 18 months with the release of the
saloon. With the recharging limitations of this technology you need to be
looking at something like a three-fold range improvement before you can
start scrapping the IC.

You are a very negative person. Do you think the world is going to end soon
too?

The recharging would be introduced in supermarkets, in the Canada they plug
their cars in to posts in each caring spot to keep the engine warm.
Recharging is not a big issue to implement as EVs would not flood the market
overnight. When it is clear they are here the authorities will eagerly make
provision for them, especially in cities. On main roads services would have
charging points. No one would wait 3 hours for a charge as few would allow
the charge to drop so low - as people don't allow fuel tanks to drop to near
zero they will not do that with the batteries and most don't fill fuel tanks
up either, put in £15 or £20 worth of petrol. If the battery charge is 33%
and you have a 1 hour charge as you have lunch that still gets you a long
way.

Then the Toshiba batteries are to be introduced that can take 80% of the
charge in 3 minutes and full in 5.

The future is looking rosy, so no need for you to expect the world to end.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...

It's as I said - there's always a new battery technology just round the
corner which will 'solve the problem'. But it ain't arrived yet for
general use.

A car does 250 miles and he thinks it is not enough, maybe he wants to go to
Mars. Sad isn't it. I hope they take him to the coast today so he can walk
the prom in his loafers.

On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:23:28 +0100, Doctor Drivel wrote:


It is actually. Drive to the in-laws 200 miles away and while they feed
you another 250 miles is being fed into the thing from their socket,

On the planet I live on not many people's in-laws have a 70 Amp socket
outlet.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

Already charge cycle efficiences of a lot better than 90% are achievable
at the battery (current CHARGERS are not optimised for effciency)

The new Tesla charger is highly efficient, and is the power management, what
makes this car feasible.

Problem 2 is infrastructure - for this to really take off, you need to
have
top up points available, probably at roadside cafes or car parks. Not
insoluble.


Yes. A LOT easier than building a hydrogen infrastructure.

Star with TESCOS car parks, probably. A 50-70A charge point with a credit
card interface should be relatively simple..


Cheers

Tim

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

We haven't. This car is in the Porche category and outperforms it in
every way; it is the "same" price in the USA.

That 'they'

They should drag him of the computer and get down the coast today. He will
look the part walking the prom in his loafers.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

What would be the range of a Ferrari when it does 130mph continuously?
At 130mph it will be in single figures, so not long at all.

Another

I hope they have drugs to cure his intestinal problems.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
This car is in the Porche category and outperforms it in every
way; it is the "same" price in the USA.

It's not on sale.

We really do need a breakthrough in drugs for senility. We really do.

We certainly need a drug that could cure the gullible who believe every
word they read in adverts. It wouldn't sell well, though, given you appear
to be one of the few who does.

How is your magnetic water 'conditioner', by the way? Still defying the
laws of physics? Like your 110% efficient boiler?

Seek treatment now. Although I'd guess it's too late.

--
*Arkansas State Motto: Don't Ask, Don't Tell, Don't Laugh.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:23:28 +0100, Doctor Drivel wrote:


It is actually. Drive to the in-laws 200 miles away and while they feed
you another 250 miles is being fed into the thing from their socket,

On the planet I live on not many people's in-laws have a 70 Amp socket
outlet.

They will do if this takes off, which it looks like doing.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ,
Mike Dodd wrote:
$80,000 price?, say £55,000 on an optimistic $:£ technology ratio.

But it never happens. Every US car sold here costs about the same in gbp
numbers as dollars. Which is why they are so rare and poor value.

The car will be made in England. Sad isn't it. They will have to get him
walking in those loafers.

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...
http://www.teslamotors.com/

Made by Lotus and will do low flying. A saloon available in around 18
months time. Well by, by, internal combustion engine.

http://www.wired.com/news/wiredmag/0...ory_page_prev2

I've already seen a "fully electric car" for some time now, and possibly two
(different makes) of them. I have no further details.
I think that it's a big step in the right direction.

Sylvain.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Maybe a nice toy for whacking around country lanes, and for the local
commute. Beyond that and it is simply not practicable.

Not today, no.

But consider...IF the cars were not sold, but leased, and the overall
operational cost and fuel cost was less than - say - a small commuter
car, and you need a second car to commute with..

But that's not what's on offer. It's a car to compete with the likes of
Porsche in both price and performance. As if...

It's one of the oldest tricks in the book. We are offering X now at a high
price, but Y will be along shortly which will wipe out the lower priced
competition. Which suggests this tiny firm has a breakthrough the major
makers haven't found after spending billions on research.

Basically, the sort of BS we've all read before many many times.

Toyota are at the forefront of electric cars - albeit hybrid ones. My
money is on them producing the first all electric practical family car.
That they haven't yet means the technology isn't ready.

--
*Confession is good for the soul, but bad for your career.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Mike Dodd wrote:

Please note that I'll welcome the day that electric replaced IC - but
that day isn't here yet, nor will it be in 18 months with the release of
the saloon. With the recharging limitations of this technology you need
to be looking at something like a three-fold range improvement before you
can start scrapping the IC.

Close, but no cigar.

I agree its not - like the Internet - going to be an overnight thing.

The Internet was relatively overnight. The DNS server is actually in Fort
Knox, that is how important the Internet is to modern living. Within 5
years it was well established an indispensable.

I can' remember when the first Internet pipe from the UK to Holland opened
up..mid 90's. we all yelled 'this could be he real thing; but everybody
else was saying 'rubbish. X-25 is the future'

We never. Once the WWW came and the first browsers were in action it was
obvious which way it was going. People wanted a better protocol for the
Internet to run on.

Then we had the hype boom in 1998-2000, then a realization that it would
take tome, but now, maybe 10 years or so after the first decent IP
infrastructure was laid in the UK, we take it completely for granted. I
get for £20 a month today what would have cost £20,000 a year or more
then.

Whatever happened to hydrogen fuel cells?

Same as X-25 really. The wrong track that the big boys will take for all
the wrong reasons. That will quietly get sidelined because in the end the
cost benefit will not stack up to electric battery except in a few cases.

Look at Microsoft exchange. Its an X400 mail server with IP stuck on the
back end. How many users use X400 these days?

Exchange is crap, always was.

On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:01:41 +0100, Doctor Drivel wrote:

We shall see. It maybe a con, but read up on the outfit (do a Google on
Tesla Motors), with Lotus on board tooled up to manufacture, as are the
component suppliers, the backing they have, etc, and something tells me
this is no con trick.

I bet Lotus and the other suppliers wanted cash up front :-)

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:01:41 +0100, Doctor Drivel wrote:

We shall see. It maybe a con, but read up on the outfit (do a Google on
Tesla Motors), with Lotus on board tooled up to manufacture, as are the
component suppliers, the backing they have, etc, and something tells me
this is no con trick.

I bet Lotus and the other suppliers wanted cash up front :-)

If they did ask and get it then I would say it is a goer.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

This car is in the Porche category and outperforms it in every
way; it is the "same" price in the USA.

It's not on sale.

We really do need a breakthrough in drugs for senility. We really do.

We

I wonder if they make him dress himself.

On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 01:01:14 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


It's not the same price because there aren't any to buy.

You can't buy one at any price.

The price has been set, deposits are being taken and the first delivered
will be around September.

That's only 5 weeks away.

I would have thought there would have been some evidence of some
pre-launch stock about by now. Fields full of finished cars.

We'll see.

DG

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

Then the Toshiba batteries are to be introduced that can take 80% of the
charge in 3 minutes and full in 5.



mmmmm lets think about that - 50kWh battery charged in 5 mins - sounds good.

--- where do I plug it in - that's 2608A at 230V - may be I can tap into the
440kV overhead lines?

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
(assuming you meant "Bye Bye", as in the end of the IC...

Yep. I can't wait to see the back of them.

But seem to advocate a Stirling engine a few posts ago? Perhaps you think
that's not an IC engine...

Still very limited - such that for most people it could not replace a
conventional IC car 100%.

A Fiesta type of car would not require a two speed gearbox as this
sporty one has, be very simple, so simple to make and run (no
servicing)
It will need no servicing? Try learning a little about how a car works.
There's more to servicing than just attending to an IC engine.

that manufacturing costs will drop. The range would be
there.

Will, would. More crystal ball gazing on your part.


The only initial drawback is the charging points, which would be
overcome.

Not if you can charge it at home, fool. If it had a reasonable range very
few charging points would be needed.

$80,000 price?, say £55,000 on an optimistic $:£ technology ratio.

It is the same price as a Porche, its direct competitor. Sounds good to
me.

Now let me see. The last car you claimed to own was a Prius. Not exactly
in the same class as a Porsche, or indeed designed for the same sort of
use? So suddenly you're changing from a poor performing family car to a
two seater fast sports car? Despite continually saying speed and
acceleration don't interest you? Is this a mid life crisis?

[snip the rest of the advert]

The future is looking rosy, so no need for you to expect the world to
end.

You should sell crystal balls. Magnetic ones, obviously.

--
He who laughs last, thinks slowest*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Derek ^" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 01:01:14 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


It's not the same price because there aren't any to buy.

You can't buy one at any price.

The price has been set, deposits are being taken and the first delivered
will be around September.

That's only 5 weeks away.

I would have thought there would have been some evidence of some
pre-launch stock about by now. Fields full of finished cars.

We'll see.

DG

We all eagerly await.

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
This appears the first mass produced "modern" electric car. They were
mass
produced pre WW1. Battery technology is improving by the month without a
doubt. A small Fiesta sized car designed for optimal usage and efficiency
would be a great success. A car like this would never come from the
traditional car industry. It had to be outsiders who look at it from a
different angle and don't have their heads full yesterdays technology and
ways. They want the status quo and keep selling us antiquated polluting
crap.

Yes I suppose the electric car does it crapping elsewhere.. at the power
station?....

Indeed. There are some advantages to that, in that it is easier to treat a
lot of pollution in one place, than it is to treat small amounts of
pollution in lots of places. However, the inefficiencies in the systems mean
that, a couple of years ago, it was demonstrated that an electric car
produced three times as much pollution as a modern internal combustion
engine powered car. Better battery efficiency would go some way towards
improving that, but would do nothing to help with generating and
transmission losses. A major change to nuclear power would produce a
significant reduction in carbon emissions, although a number of
climatologists are now saying that is far less important than was thought a
decade ago. OTOH, car manufacturers are also continually improving their
products so that driving a modern five litre vehicle I am producing far less
pollution than I was when driving around in my average saloon car in the
1960s.

Colin Bignell

In article ,
John Stumbles wrote:
It is actually. Drive to the in-laws 200 miles away and while they
feed you another 250 miles is being fed into the thing from their
socket,

On the planet I live on not many people's in-laws have a 70 Amp socket
outlet.

Dribble obviously expects a free lunch in more ways than one.

--
*The colder the X-ray table, the more of your body is required on it *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:56:51 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

The trouble is electric car makers and their advocates always quote the
best possible range and best possible performance without making it
clear the two can't happen at the same time. To fool the gullible like
dribble, who already thinks it's possible to exceed 100% efficiency. Now
we all know that driving an IC car hard results in heavier fuel
consumption and of course the same applies to an electric one.

Not to the same extent: by driving hard you mean a lot of accelerating and
braking, right? A well-designed electric car can recover a lot of the
kinetic energy put into accelerating through regenerative braking which an
IC cannot.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

But that's not what's on offer. It's a car to compete with the likes of
Porsche in both price and performance. As if...

Richard Cranium, it outperforms a Porche. You can even drive it with loafer
on too.

It's one of the oldest tricks in the book. We are offering X now at a high
price, but Y will be along shortly which will wipe out the lower priced
competition. Which suggests this tiny firm has a breakthrough the major
makers haven't found after spending billions on research.

Richard, the makers have done sweet FA, except Honda and Toyota with hybrids
(the Prius was introduced 9 years ago).

Toyota are at the forefront of
electric cars - albeit hybrid ones.

Mr Cranium, they are not, that is Mitsubish in the big makers. The forefront
is Tesla Motors in league with Lotus.

snip senile babble

They should get him outside ASAP. He has to do some walking in those
loafers.

On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 11:31:20 +0100, Doctor Drivel wrote
(in article ews.net):



The Internet was relatively overnight. The DNS server is actually in Fort
Knox, that is how important the Internet is to modern living. Within 5
years it was well established an indispensable.


Another classic.

Fort Knox must be a virtual environment with branches worldwide. Perhaps
it's a franchise


http://www.root-servers.org/

http://www.isoc.org/briefings/019/

On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:04:09 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

That 'they' are going for premium performance and price says a lot about
just how viable the project is. The profit margin in this sector is
enormous. It isn't for family cars.

Bit like colour telly then: way too expensive ever to make the mass market :-)