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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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mixing plumbing fittings??
I'm a novice so please don't shoot me down!!!
I'm doing a bathroom remodel and I want to add a few valves (Including replacement of two valves in loft) My problem is that I'm nervous of using compression fittings. As I can solder, is it possible to mix the fittings, for example could I use an end feed tap connector on the compression ball valve? The threads look the same... Or is there a better method? |
#2
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mixing plumbing fittings??
I only ask because I have a case full of comp. fittings from a friend.
cheers |
#3
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mixing plumbing fittings??
Olly D wrote:
I'm a novice so please don't shoot me down!!! I'm doing a bathroom remodel and I want to add a few valves (Including replacement of two valves in loft) My problem is that I'm nervous of using compression fittings. As I can solder, is it possible to mix the fittings, for example could I use an end feed tap connector on the compression ball valve? The threads look the same... Or is there a better method? use the compression joints as they are supposed to be used and you shoulnt have much problems, do not over tighten the compression fitting and make sure you check all joints after refilling with water. if still in doubt get plenty of buckets! |
#4
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mixing plumbing fittings??
Is it as they say, tighten by hand as much as poss, and then one full
turn? |
#5
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mixing plumbing fittings??
Olly D wrote: Is it as they say, tighten by hand as much as poss, and then one full turn? I always tighten until they creak or judder a little bit. Then put on water. Any drips, tighten slightly. Note that brass olives need more force than the copper ones. Also note, if the pipe itself is not constrained in some way, often it will turn a bit as you tighen the fitting, which can be a problem if orientation matters. I have never had to use jointing paste, PTFE etc. One thing that I always wonder about. Most of the fittings that come with olives (service valves etc) seem to have copper olives, but brass ones are more commonly available in packets. Explanation anyone ? Good luck, Simon. |
#6
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mixing plumbing fittings??
Olly D wrote:
I'm doing a bathroom remodel and I want to add a few valves (Including replacement of two valves in loft) My problem is that I'm nervous of using compression fittings. As I can solder, is it possible to mix the fittings, for example could I use an end feed tap connector on the compression ball valve? The threads look the same... An unusual problem in that most novices start with compression fittings but are scared of soldered ones! :-) It's a bit of an odd solution; yes, the threads are the same and it should probably work OK. However, for a start, notice that the end of the ball valve fitting has a conical profile, designed to mate up with an olive in a compression fitting; whereas the comparable end of a tap is flat in profile, intended to but against the fibre washer which you'll see inside your tap connector - ie, the seals are different. That said, it should still seal OK, but IMHO it would be an unnecessary bodge and also look ugly; furthermore you are introducing two extra joints at every ball valve for no good reason. Don't be scared of compression fittings; they are far easier than soldering. Also easier to dismantle and try again in the unlikely event of a leak (which anyway would only be likely to be a drip, rather than a torrent!) Try googling this newsgroup for lots of tips. David |
#7
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mixing plumbing fittings??
"Olly D" wrote in message oups.com... I'm a novice so please don't shoot me down!!! I'm doing a bathroom remodel and I want to add a few valves (Including replacement of two valves in loft) My problem is that I'm nervous of using compression fittings. As I can solder, is it possible to mix the fittings, for example could I use an end feed tap connector on the compression ball valve? The threads look the same... Do not do that. The thread for a compression nut on a fitting is not BSP. If it is it more lock than anything. Best buy a compression flexible tap connector with an integral isolation valve. |
#8
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mixing plumbing fittings??
I think I'll have a go at the compression fittings then, I was put off
mainly by googling to be honest! Should also confront ones fears! Many thanks. |
#9
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mixing plumbing fittings??
"Olly D" wrote in
ups.com: Is it as they say, tighten by hand as much as poss, and then one full turn? I grease the threads lightly so I can feel resistance properly, tighten up till the pipe is gripped firmly, maybe a bit more - you don't want it popping out when you turn the water on! - and then pull them up a bit more if they're weeping. I'm mortally afraid of overtightening, necking the pipe, specially if there's only a short bit, because my hovel was previously owned by a gorilla. And never ever put a compression fitting in a spot that will be bricked or tiled over like the ******* professionals who knocked out a wall in my bog/bathroom did! They may start to weep if disturbed by someone changing a cistern ball valve. DAMHIK Grrrr mike |
#10
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mixing plumbing fittings??
Olly D wrote: My problem is that I'm nervous of using compression fittings. Then just get on & use some. Such diffidence will be replaced by confidence. As I can solder, is it possible to mix the fittings, for example could I use an end feed tap connector on the compression ball valve? The threads look the same... If you can solder, you can use two spanners. Look up the manufacturers' website if you need instructions on how to make a compresssion joint. Mixing compression and tap connectors would be a bodge; use compression olives on compression fittings. The tap connector is a parallel BSP thread and the sealing is by a compressing the fibre washer between two flat faces. The compression fitting won't have a suitable flat face. Different manufacturers of compression fittings use different threads. Some use BSP threads, others use a finer metric thread. |
#11
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mixing plumbing fittings??
"sm_jamieson" wrote in message ps.com... Olly D wrote: Is it as they say, tighten by hand as much as poss, and then one full turn? I always tighten until they creak or judder a little bit. Then put on water. Any drips, tighten slightly. Note that brass olives need more force than the copper ones. Also note, if the pipe itself is not constrained in some way, often it will turn a bit as you tighen the fitting, which can be a problem if orientation matters. I have never had to use jointing paste, PTFE etc. One thing that I always wonder about. Most of the fittings that come with olives (service valves etc) seem to have copper olives, but brass ones are more commonly available in packets. Explanation anyone ? Copper olives are for instances where disconnection is required. They are easier to get off. You are "supposed" to replace olives when disconnecting and reconnecting. |
#12
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mixing plumbing fittings??
In article . com,
Olly D writes I think I'll have a go at the compression fittings then, I was put off mainly by googling to be honest! Should also confront ones fears! That said, my mate had a go and made a complete arse of it, weeping (both from pipes & eyes) that wouldn't go away. He was working with the existing pipes which although the right metric size were dinged, scratched & covered in remains of paint. I'd say, just make sure the pipe is round, clean & gently polished with a bit of wire wool before you start to assemble & things shouldn't go far wrong. Good luck. -- fred Plusnet - I hope you like vanilla |
#13
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mixing plumbing fittings??
"fred" wrote in message ... In article . com, Olly D writes I think I'll have a go at the compression fittings then, I was put off mainly by googling to be honest! Should also confront ones fears! That said, my mate had a go and made a complete arse of it, weeping (both from pipes & eyes) that wouldn't go away. He was working with the existing pipes which although the right metric size were dinged, scratched & covered in remains of paint. I'd say, just make sure the pipe is round, clean & gently polished with a bit of wire wool before you start to assemble & things shouldn't go far wrong. Good luck. And use good quality fittings such as Conex. Wickes sell Conex. Put a smear of jointing paste on the olive. |
#14
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mixing plumbing fittings??
sm_jamieson wrote:
One thing that I always wonder about. Most of the fittings that come with olives (service valves etc) seem to have copper olives, but brass ones are more commonly available in packets. Explanation anyone ? Good luck, Simon. Purely a matter of what the chinese supplier sends to the packer or merchant. If the order to the Chinese says 'Copper Olives' thats what they will supply. |
#15
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mixing plumbing fittings??
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Do not do that. The thread for a compression nut on a fitting is not BSP. Sorry to disagree but most 15mm compression fittings now have a 1/2" BSP thread. Some dont but most do. |
#16
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mixing plumbing fittings??
sm_jamieson wrote:
One thing that I always wonder about. Most of the fittings that come with olives (service valves etc) seem to have copper olives, but brass ones are more commonly available in packets. Explanation anyone ? Simon, you're losing the plot! see http://tinyurl.com/npu7g (or http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk.d-i-y/browse_frm/thread/a59fbe945979cfa6/3ba23d05490473bd?hl=en#3ba23d05490473bd ;-) David |
#17
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mixing plumbing fittings??
"Bookworm" wrote in message ps.com... Doctor Drivel wrote: Do not do that. The thread for a compression nut on a fitting is not BSP. Sorry to disagree but most 15mm compression fittings now have a 1/2" BSP thread. Some dont but most do. The tread is not meant to attach a pipe to, even though they may have used a BSP thread. The original compression nut threads were deliberately not BSP to avoid this situation. Pipe threads are longer, that the compression nut threads on the fittings. DO NOT screw a pipe to the compression fitting. If the fitting is mean to have copper pipe at each end then do not attach anything except copper pipe. |
#18
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mixing plumbing fittings??
Christian McArdle wrote: However, in my (somewhat limited) experience fine threads are only ever found on zone valves for some reason. Not necessarily. A random handful of 15mm compression nuts have names & threads thus; 1/2" BSP Conex Sanbra, CZ, Opella, Kuterlite** Fine Thread(s)* Prestex, Instantor, Kuterlite** *The "fine thread" actually includes two different threads with the same pitch but different ODs. I don't know the name of the thread, I'm sure someone will know. **Kuterlite fittings are listed in both categories; this isn't a mistake. All the nuts are marked 864-2 (BS 864 Pt.2 ). I've no idea how long these fittings have been in my garage. I'd never heard of some of the makers, some may not still be in business. |
#19
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mixing plumbing fittings??
In article .com,
Olly D wrote: I'm doing a bathroom remodel and I want to add a few valves (Including replacement of two valves in loft) My problem is that I'm nervous of using compression fittings. As I can solder, is it possible to mix the fittings, for example could I use an end feed tap connector on the compression ball valve? The threads look the same... A tap connector usually has a square end, while a compression fitting a taper for the olive. Close examination should show this. In neither case does the thread do the sealing. It just compresses the seal - either washer or olive. -- *I almost had a psychic girlfriend but she left me before we met * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#20
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mixing plumbing fittings??
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote: Copper olives are for instances where disconnection is required. They are easier to get off. You are "supposed" to replace olives when disconnecting and reconnecting. ******** as usual. If you are simply disconnecting then reconnecting the same fitting there is no need to replace the olive - indeed you're likely to cause more problems by doing so if everyone is as cack handed as you. -- *Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#21
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mixing plumbing fittings??
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote: The thread for a compression nut on a fitting is not BSP. Really? For one who claims to know so much about the subject, you've obviously not handled many compression fittings... -- *He who laughs last has just realised the joke. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#22
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mixing plumbing fittings??
"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile flatulence wrote in message ... In article ews.net, Doctor Drivel wrote: Copper olives are for instances where disconnection is required. They are easier to get off. You are "supposed" to replace olives when disconnecting and reconnecting. ******** Sad isn't it. He put high pressure taps on a low pressure system and wondered why only a trickle came out. This happens when you get to his age and a hot day doesn't help either. No cocoa tonight for him. |
#23
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mixing plumbing fittings??
"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile flatulence wrote in message ... In article ews.net, Doctor Drivel wrote: The thread for a compression nut on a fitting is not BSP. Really? No, O'Reilly. I hope they have been giving him enough liquids today. |
#24
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mixing plumbing fittings??
"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile flatulence wrote in message ... In article .com, Olly D wrote: I'm doing a bathroom remodel and I want to add a few valves (Including replacement of two valves in loft) My problem is that I'm nervous of using compression fittings. As I can solder, is it possible to mix the fittings, for example could I use an end feed tap connector on the compression ball valve? The threads look the same... A tap connector usually has a square end, He also cut the tails on his high pressure taps. Yes, he cut them. Let's hope he never plays with gas. My God!!! The thought! |
#25
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mixing plumbing fittings??
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote: Copper olives are for instances where disconnection is required. They are easier to get off. You are "supposed" to replace olives when disconnecting and reconnecting. ******** Sad isn't it. He put high pressure taps on a low pressure system and wondered why only a trickle came out. Ah, but no leaks. Now remind us about the hacksaw and plastic pipe incident... -- He who laughs last, thinks slowest* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#26
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mixing plumbing fittings??
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote: The thread for a compression nut on a fitting is not BSP. Really? No, O'Reilly. I hope they have been giving him enough liquids today. I'd say you've taken rather too much already. -- *24 hours in a day ... 24 beers in a case ... coincidence? * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#27
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mixing plumbing fittings??
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote: A tap connector usually has a square end, He also cut the tails on his high pressure taps. Low pressure. You said that yourself... Yes, he cut them. Let's hope he never plays with gas. My God!!! The thought! And no leaks for me - even although you think it impossible to cut brass square and file it smooth. Of course after the hacksaw and plastic pipe incident, no surprise there... -- *Before they invented drawing boards, what did they go back to? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#28
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mixing plumbing fittings??
I'm glad I registered. Reading past topics - very entertaining!
Nice cool start to the day... time for some plumbing...gulp. |
#29
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mixing plumbing fittings??
"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile flatulence wrote in message ... In article ews.net, Doctor Drivel wrote: Copper olives are for instances where disconnection is required. They are easier to get off. You are "supposed" to replace olives when disconnecting and reconnecting. ******** Sad isn't it. He put high pressure taps on a low pressure system and wondered why only a trickle came out. Ah, but no leaks. ....and no water out the taps either. Sad isn't it. Very sad indeed. |
#30
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mixing plumbing fittings??
"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile flatulence wrote in message ... In article ews.net, Doctor Drivel wrote: The thread for a compression nut on a fitting is not BSP. Really? No, O'Reilly. I hope they have been giving him enough liquids today. I'd say He is saying thing now. Total babble and drivel and frothing, but you have to admire the attempt. Sad isn't it. Very sad indeed. |
#31
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mixing plumbing fittings??
"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile flatulence wrote in message ... In article ews.net, Doctor Drivel wrote: A tap connector usually has a square end, He also cut the tails on his high pressure taps. Low pressure. ...it was after you finished with it. Sad isn't it. Very sad indeed. |
#32
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mixing plumbing fittings??
"Olly D" wrote in message ups.com... I'm glad I registered. Reading past topics - very entertaining! Nice cool start to the day... time for some plumbing...gulp. Follow Richards advice and you will be very cool indeed. The place will be a like a water fountain. |
#33
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mixing plumbing fittings??
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote: Sad isn't it. He put high pressure taps on a low pressure system and wondered why only a trickle came out. Ah, but no leaks. ...and no water out the taps either. Haven't you heard of pumping low pressure so you can have the choice of these fancy monoblock taps? Thought you claimed to know about everything plumbing. So at least you've learnt something new. Not that you'll remember it, though, because I've told you this before. Sad isn't it. Very sad indeed. It is indeed. Pumps have been around for a very long time. Thought everyone knew about them. -- *Organized Crime Is Alive And Well; It's Called Auto Insurance. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#34
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mixing plumbing fittings??
"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile flatulence wrote in message ... In article ews.net, Doctor Drivel wrote: Sad isn't it. He put high pressure taps on a low pressure system and wondered why only a trickle came out. Ah, but no leaks. ...and no water out the taps either. Haven't Sad isn't it. Complete and utter incoherent babble compounded by porkie pies. This hot weather does affect them you know. |
#35
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mixing plumbing fittings??
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote: Haven't Sad isn't it. Complete and utter incoherent babble compounded by porkie pies. This hot weather does affect them you know. Too true. -- *Not all men are annoying. Some are dead. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#36
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mixing plumbing fittings??
"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile flatulence wrote in message ... In article ews.net, Doctor Drivel wrote: Haven't Sad isn't it. Complete and utter incoherent babble compounded by porkie pies. This hot weather does affect them you know. Too true. This is encouraging. They must be teaching him self awareness lessons. |
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