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mentalguy2004 July 2nd 06 09:19 PM

How can I cool my loft?
 
I have an extremely hot loft, which is keeping the top half of my house hot
as well. I'm running 2 large air conditioners upstairs, but the heat isn't
escaping through the loft which is at least 10 degrees hotter. Downstairs is
around 5-6 degrees cooler than upstairs.

I don't have a loft skylight (nor the will or cash to install one), so does
anyone have any ideas on how to cool the loft so that I can get rid of some
heat upstairs?

Thanks!



mrcheerful . July 2nd 06 09:31 PM

How can I cool my loft?
 

"mentalguy2004" wrote in message
...
I have an extremely hot loft, which is keeping the top half of my house hot
as well. I'm running 2 large air conditioners upstairs, but the heat isn't
escaping through the loft which is at least 10 degrees hotter. Downstairs
is around 5-6 degrees cooler than upstairs.

I don't have a loft skylight (nor the will or cash to install one), so
does anyone have any ideas on how to cool the loft so that I can get rid
of some heat upstairs?

Thanks!


put an extract fan in the loft area, either to an outside wall or a chimney
or even through a tile



David Hansen July 2nd 06 09:37 PM

How can I cool my loft?
 
On Sun, 02 Jul 2006 19:19:24 GMT someone who may be "mentalguy2004"
wrote this:-

I have an extremely hot loft, which is keeping the top half of my house hot
as well. I'm running 2 large air conditioners upstairs, but the heat isn't
escaping through the loft which is at least 10 degrees hotter. Downstairs is
around 5-6 degrees cooler than upstairs.


Any particular reason why you are burning electricity to run these
two gadgets? Could you not open the windows? Depending on the
orientation and design of the house it should be possible to provide
gentle ventilation that will keep the house cool via the windows and
other ventilators. This sort of passive ventilation should be
designed into all houses, by many builders appear ignorant of it.

I don't have a loft skylight (nor the will or cash to install one), so does
anyone have any ideas on how to cool the loft so that I can get rid of some
heat upstairs?


The loft should have suitable ventilation. If it doesn't then I
would be worried about rot. There are plenty of descriptions of loft
ventilation on the web.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

mentalguy2004 July 2nd 06 09:40 PM

How can I cool my loft?
 

"David Hansen" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 02 Jul 2006 19:19:24 GMT someone who may be "mentalguy2004"
wrote this:-

I have an extremely hot loft, which is keeping the top half of my house
hot
as well. I'm running 2 large air conditioners upstairs, but the heat isn't
escaping through the loft which is at least 10 degrees hotter. Downstairs
is
around 5-6 degrees cooler than upstairs.


Any particular reason why you are burning electricity to run these
two gadgets? Could you not open the windows?


Ummm, because it's too hot and opening the windows doesn't help.


Depending on the
orientation and design of the house it should be possible to provide
gentle ventilation that will keep the house cool via the windows and
other ventilators. This sort of passive ventilation should be
designed into all houses, by many builders appear ignorant of it.

I don't have a loft skylight (nor the will or cash to install one), so
does
anyone have any ideas on how to cool the loft so that I can get rid of
some
heat upstairs?


The loft should have suitable ventilation. If it doesn't then I
would be worried about rot. There are plenty of descriptions of loft
ventilation on the web.


Thanks.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54




MikeH July 2nd 06 09:41 PM

How can I cool my loft?
 

mentalguy2004 wrote:
I have an extremely hot loft, which is keeping the top half of my house hot
as well. I'm running 2 large air conditioners upstairs, but the heat isn't
escaping through the loft which is at least 10 degrees hotter. Downstairs is
around 5-6 degrees cooler than upstairs.

I don't have a loft skylight (nor the will or cash to install one), so does
anyone have any ideas on how to cool the loft so that I can get rid of some
heat upstairs?

Thanks!


I have the same problem - it's a bit like living inside a storage
heater in the current hot weather. I don't have any aircon upstairs,
but I've found that putting big fans in two open windows to shift as
much air through the upper floor makes a big difference. This cools
the house quite quickly once the temperature drops a bit in the
evening. I put one fan on the cooler north side of the house to draw
air into that room, and another blowing outwards in a window on the
south-facing side, and leave the doors open to allow a through draught

I'm also going to improve the insulation to prevent the heat in the
loft going through the ceiling into the upper floor. Hopefully it will
also help my winter fuel bills. There's only a couple of inches of
insulation at the moment - way too little by today's standards.

Mike


mentalguy2004 July 2nd 06 09:48 PM

How can I cool my loft?
 

"MikeH" wrote in message
ups.com...

mentalguy2004 wrote:
I have an extremely hot loft, which is keeping the top half of my house
hot
as well. I'm running 2 large air conditioners upstairs, but the heat
isn't
escaping through the loft which is at least 10 degrees hotter. Downstairs
is
around 5-6 degrees cooler than upstairs.

I don't have a loft skylight (nor the will or cash to install one), so
does
anyone have any ideas on how to cool the loft so that I can get rid of
some
heat upstairs?

Thanks!


I have the same problem - it's a bit like living inside a storage
heater in the current hot weather. I don't have any aircon upstairs,
but I've found that putting big fans in two open windows to shift as
much air through the upper floor makes a big difference. This cools
the house quite quickly once the temperature drops a bit in the
evening. I put one fan on the cooler north side of the house to draw
air into that room, and another blowing outwards in a window on the
south-facing side, and leave the doors open to allow a through draught

I'm also going to improve the insulation to prevent the heat in the
loft going through the ceiling into the upper floor. Hopefully it will
also help my winter fuel bills. There's only a couple of inches of
insulation at the moment - way too little by today's standards.

Mike


I might try the fan/window idea, thanks. Our house is a mid-terrace, so in
the winter we don't use much heating, as the front and back are sheltered,
the loft insulation is good and the neighbours keep us warm.... but it's
horrible in the summer. Hardly any breeze and the air is very still.



Peter Parry July 2nd 06 10:45 PM

How can I cool my loft?
 
On Sun, 02 Jul 2006 20:37:09 +0100, David Hansen
wrote:


Any particular reason why you are burning electricity to run these
two gadgets?


Because it is too hot?

Could you not open the windows?


One could, it makes very little difference however.

Depending on the
orientation and design of the house it should be possible to provide
gentle ventilation that will keep the house cool via the windows and
other ventilators.


Not it won't, if the house is reasonably well insulated and has
reasonable solar gain the upstairs is going to be too hot in summer.
There are numerous greeny house is Milton Keynes and Oxford which are
abandoned in summer because they are unbearable.

designed into all houses, by many builders appear ignorant of it.


How old do you think the house is?

I don't have a loft skylight (nor the will or cash to install one), so does
anyone have any ideas on how to cool the loft so that I can get rid of some
heat upstairs?


The loft should have suitable ventilation. If it doesn't then I
would be worried about rot.


Suitable and adequate loft ventilation to prevent rot will have
almost zero effect upon temperature in the loft.



--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

David Hansen July 2nd 06 11:39 PM

How can I cool my loft?
 
On Sun, 02 Jul 2006 19:40:17 GMT someone who may be "mentalguy2004"
wrote this:-

Any particular reason why you are burning electricity to run these
two gadgets? Could you not open the windows?


Ummm, because it's too hot and opening the windows doesn't help.


Then the house may be badly designed, though without looking at it I
couldn't say.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

David Hansen July 2nd 06 11:50 PM

How can I cool my loft?
 
On Sun, 02 Jul 2006 21:45:19 +0100 someone who may be Peter Parry
wrote this:-

Could you not open the windows?


One could, it makes very little difference however.


That depends on how well the house is designed for natural
ventilation. I know of houses, including my own, where the
appropriate use of windows and vents allows a nice even temperature
to be maintained in hot weather, day and night, including the
southward facing public rooms.

It is usually not even necessary to run the extract fan in summer
when having a shower or bath. The natural ventilation extracts the
damp air very well.

Depending on the
orientation and design of the house it should be possible to provide
gentle ventilation that will keep the house cool via the windows and
other ventilators.


Not it won't,


I disagree, having seen all sorts of naturally ventilated buildings.

if the house is reasonably well insulated


Tick.

and has reasonable solar gain


Tick.

the upstairs is going to be too hot in summer.


Cross.

The upstairs may be too hot in summer, but only if the house is
badly designed.

There are numerous greeny house is Milton Keynes and Oxford which are
abandoned in summer because they are unbearable.


Not places I frequent. Were they designed for passive solar
ventilation? When were they designed?

How old do you think the house is?


No idea. However, in the absence of more information, I assume the
OP has a mass built house rather then one designed by an engineer.

Suitable and adequate loft ventilation to prevent rot will have
almost zero effect upon temperature in the loft.


That depends on how it is designed and operated.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Phil L July 2nd 06 11:50 PM

How can I cool my loft?
 
David Hansen wrote:
On Sun, 02 Jul 2006 19:40:17 GMT someone who may be "mentalguy2004"
wrote this:-

Any particular reason why you are burning electricity to run these
two gadgets? Could you not open the windows?


Ummm, because it's too hot and opening the windows doesn't help.


Then the house may be badly designed, though without looking at it I
couldn't say.


Design doesn't come into it...EG my house was a baking 25C inside and 31C
outside with no air movement, how is opening a window going to cool it down?



Phil L July 2nd 06 11:57 PM

How can I cool my loft?
 
mentalguy2004 wrote:
I have an extremely hot loft, which is keeping the top half of my
house hot as well. I'm running 2 large air conditioners upstairs, but
the heat isn't escaping through the loft which is at least 10 degrees
hotter. Downstairs is around 5-6 degrees cooler than upstairs.

I don't have a loft skylight (nor the will or cash to install one),
so does anyone have any ideas on how to cool the loft so that I can
get rid of some heat upstairs?

Thanks!


Not without spending any money, no...you've already stated that it's a mid
terraced, which rules out knocking a large hole through a gable wall and
putting a window in, the loft windows are out which severely limits your
options...you could try adding another 150mm of insulation up there but this
won't allow the heat to escape which is already there, it /may/ stop some
of it coming through the ceilings though. - unless....you insulate under the
roof felt/battens....you can affix fibreglass by stapling plastic or wire
mesh to the roof joists, but don't use polythene sheeting otherwise your
roof will rot away.

HTH



David Hansen July 3rd 06 12:00 AM

How can I cool my loft?
 
On Sun, 02 Jul 2006 19:48:27 GMT someone who may be "mentalguy2004"
wrote this:-

Our house is a mid-terrace, so in
the winter we don't use much heating, as the front and back are sheltered,
the loft insulation is good and the neighbours keep us warm.... but it's
horrible in the summer. Hardly any breeze and the air is very still.


Which directions do the exposed walls face?


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

[email protected] July 3rd 06 12:37 AM

How can I cool my loft?
 
mentalguy2004 wrote:
I have an extremely hot loft, which is keeping the top half of my house hot
as well. I'm running 2 large air conditioners upstairs, but the heat isn't
escaping through the loft which is at least 10 degrees hotter. Downstairs is
around 5-6 degrees cooler than upstairs.

I don't have a loft skylight (nor the will or cash to install one), so does
anyone have any ideas on how to cool the loft so that I can get rid of some
heat upstairs?

Thanks!


1. you need lots of loft ventilation.
2. more loft insulaiton would help
3. ventilating the house well during the night only would also help
significantly.

Switch off the ac, there are far better ways to cool a house with that
much dosh.

NT


David Hansen July 3rd 06 12:48 AM

How can I cool my loft?
 
On Sun, 02 Jul 2006 21:50:31 GMT someone who may be "Phil L"
wrote this:-

Then the house may be badly designed, though without looking at it I
couldn't say.


Design doesn't come into it...


Oh yes it does:-)

EG my house was a baking 25C inside and 31C
outside with no air movement, how is opening a window going to cool it down?


As I keep on saying, that depends on the design and how the building
is operated. If it has suitable high level windows or vents then the
hot air will escape through them and draw in cooler air from lower
down, moderating the temperature during the day by counteracting
solar gain. Leave the windows open at night and the house will be
cool in the morning. With decent insulation it will not become too
warm the next day.

In the absence of suitable vents proper design will include windows
that can be safely locked open for the ground floor and any other
easily accessible windows.

While nothing substitutes for proper design I have managed to keep
mass produced houses cool by suitable ventilation. One tip is to
operate the windows so that the air drawn in comes from the side of
the house in shadow.

This is a subtle process. Gales through the windows mean they are
not at the correct settings.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

The Natural Philosopher July 3rd 06 01:03 AM

How can I cool my loft?
 
Phil L wrote:
David Hansen wrote:
On Sun, 02 Jul 2006 19:40:17 GMT someone who may be "mentalguy2004"
wrote this:-

Any particular reason why you are burning electricity to run these
two gadgets? Could you not open the windows?
Ummm, because it's too hot and opening the windows doesn't help.

Then the house may be badly designed, though without looking at it I
couldn't say.


Design doesn't come into it...EG my house was a baking 25C inside and 31C
outside with no air movement, how is opening a window going to cool it down?



Indeed. So was mine today...downstairs where I kept the windows shut,
curtains mostly closed, and the large brick chimneys and concrete
floors held it down to that.

Upstairs it rapidly shot past 30C as thecomputer equipment heated it up..

Its very hard to cool BELO ambient..your best bet is to install thermal
mass that will keep cool during the day and release its heat at night.

Lofts will often rise well ABOVE ambient due to solar heating. All you
can do is thatch the roof really :D Its the case for having insulation
OUTSIDE the structure...keep the thermal mass inisde and moderate extremes..

Ventilation may help to reduce the loft to ambient temp, but thats only
if the wind blows..


raden July 3rd 06 02:40 AM

How can I cool my loft?
 
In message , Phil L
writes
David Hansen wrote:
On Sun, 02 Jul 2006 19:40:17 GMT someone who may be "mentalguy2004"
wrote this:-

Any particular reason why you are burning electricity to run these
two gadgets? Could you not open the windows?

Ummm, because it's too hot and opening the windows doesn't help.


Then the house may be badly designed, though without looking at it I
couldn't say.


Design doesn't come into it...EG my house was a baking 25C inside


Baking ?

a comfortable 27 degrees here


and 31C
outside with no air movement, how is opening a window going to cool it down?



--
geoff

David Hansen July 3rd 06 09:12 AM

How can I cool my loft?
 
On Mon, 03 Jul 2006 00:03:09 +0100 someone who may be The Natural
Philosopher wrote this:-

Design doesn't come into it...EG my house was a baking 25C inside and 31C
outside with no air movement, how is opening a window going to cool it down?


Indeed. So was mine today...downstairs where I kept the windows shut,


Since you kept the windows shut you have demonstrated that keeping
the windows shut will not cool things down. Congratulations, though
it was unnecessary to conduct this experiment as I would have told
you this if you had asked.

curtains mostly closed,


A sensible way of reducing solar gain.

Ventilation may help to reduce the loft to ambient temp, but thats only
if the wind blows..


Incorrect.

Hot air rises. With suitable high and low level vents the
temperature in the loft can be moderated. It will probably not be as
low as in the house, as the tiles are thinner than the walls, but it
should not be "baking".


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Mary Fisher July 3rd 06 01:50 PM

How can I cool my loft?
 

"mentalguy2004" wrote in message
...

"David Hansen" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 02 Jul 2006 19:19:24 GMT someone who may be "mentalguy2004"
wrote this:-

I have an extremely hot loft, which is keeping the top half of my house
hot
as well. I'm running 2 large air conditioners upstairs, but the heat
isn't
escaping through the loft which is at least 10 degrees hotter. Downstairs
is
around 5-6 degrees cooler than upstairs.


Any particular reason why you are burning electricity to run these
two gadgets? Could you not open the windows?


Ummm, because it's too hot and opening the windows doesn't help.


Making electricity contributes to the heat.

Shade windows where the sun is coming in, draw curtains work to a greater or
lesser extent. Open doors and windows to allow some air movement. Stay in
the shade.

It's just as hot for us, we manage without AC.

Mary




Mary Fisher July 3rd 06 01:52 PM

How can I cool my loft?
 

"David Hansen" wrote in message
...



Hot air rises. With suitable high and low level vents the
temperature in the loft can be moderated. It will probably not be as
low as in the house, as the tiles are thinner than the walls, but it
should not be "baking".


Yes, open upper storey windows as well as ground floor ones. There will be
air movement even if there is no wind.

Mary




David Hansen July 3rd 06 03:02 PM

How can I cool my loft?
 
On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 12:50:44 +0100 someone who may be "Mary Fisher"
wrote this:-

It's just as hot for us, we manage without AC.


Indeed. Boys, in particular, seem addicted to toys.

Meanwhile it is perfectly possible to manage without such toys.
http://www.est.org.uk/partnership/en...ew&news_id=458
is just one article that the cluless could read to get a few clues.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Doctor Drivel July 3rd 06 05:23 PM

How can I cool my loft?
 

"mentalguy2004" wrote in message
...
I have an extremely hot loft, which is keeping the top half of my house hot
as well. I'm running 2 large air conditioners upstairs, but the heat isn't
escaping through the loft which is at least 10 degrees hotter. Downstairs
is around 5-6 degrees cooler than upstairs.

I don't have a loft skylight (nor the will or cash to install one), so
does anyone have any ideas on how to cool the loft so that I can get rid
of some heat upstairs?


Put in over 12" of insulation. It works both ways keeping heat in and out.
Make sure the loft is sealed using silicon sealant where there are holes and
a sealed and insulated hatch cover.

Two A/Cs? It is not that hot.


Doctor Drivel July 3rd 06 05:28 PM

How can I cool my loft?
 

"Phil L" wrote in message
. uk...
David Hansen wrote:
On Sun, 02 Jul 2006 19:40:17 GMT someone who may be "mentalguy2004"
wrote this:-

Any particular reason why you are burning electricity to run these
two gadgets? Could you not open the windows?

Ummm, because it's too hot and opening the windows doesn't help.


Then the house may be badly designed, though without looking at it I
couldn't say.


Design doesn't come into it


You are having a laugh of course. A high thermal mass building with heavy
to super insulation and appropriate eves overhangs to keep the sun off
windows and the walls, with adequate ventilation will be "very" cool in
summer time. There is NO need for a/c in the UK if the house is designed
right


Doctor Drivel July 3rd 06 05:30 PM

How can I cool my loft?
 

"Phil L" wrote in message
. uk...

Not without spending any money, no...you've already stated that it's a mid
terraced, which rules out knocking a large hole through a gable wall and

putting a window in, the loft windows are out which severely limits your
options...you could try adding another 150mm of insulation up there but
this won't allow the heat to escape which is already there,


All he has to do is put fans in the windows.


Peter Parry July 3rd 06 11:02 PM

How can I cool my loft?
 
On Sun, 02 Jul 2006 22:50:09 +0100, David Hansen
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Jul 2006 21:45:19 +0100 someone who may be Peter Parry
wrote this:-


One could, it makes very little difference however.


That depends on how well the house is designed for natural
ventilation.


It is quite possible to design houses for natural ventilation, there
are quite a few in the Middle East. However, to work effectively
natural ventilation needs a sufficiently high building and high
rooms. IT also requires space. Without adequate height the natural
draw is minimal. Current planning rules force low ceilings and high
density occupation. These are not conducive to either efficient nor
pleasant living.

I know of houses, including my own, where the
appropriate use of windows and vents allows a nice even temperature
to be maintained in hot weather, day and night, including the
southward facing public rooms.


Some can. It helps if you have someone with nothing else to do with
their time than go around all day opening and closing windows and
curtains. Most however can't.

Depending on the
orientation and design of the house it should be possible to provide
gentle ventilation that will keep the house cool via the windows and
other ventilators.


Not it won't,


I disagree, having seen all sorts of naturally ventilated buildings.


I've seen hundreds of various ages in very hot countries. The best
that can be said is that they work a bit.

Ventilation serves two primary purposes. Firstly it prevents
condensation and rot. Very little air flow is required to achieve
this and a house which becomes unbearably hot may still have quite
sufficient ventilation to prevent either.

Secondly an air flow through the house creates wind chill so people
feel cooler. The air is still at a high temperature - ventilation
cannot cool a house to below ambient.

It is possible to have passive cooling to below ambient but only by
utilising a passing lake or deep buried ventilation chambers.
Neither are very practical for 33b Acacia Avenue.

the upstairs is going to be too hot in summer.


Cross.

The upstairs may be too hot in summer, but only if the house is
badly designed.


Absolute rubbish. Houses are often unoccupied during the day, that
means windows and doors are closed (or you have no insurance).
Amazingly not many people consider steel grills on all their doors
and windows to allow them to be left open to be "good design".

Most people also don't consider heat generating devices such as
refrigerators and freezers to be "bad design". Modern building
regulations go overboard on keeping heat in but totally ignore
cooling. The net result is an increasing number of houses which are
uncomfortably hot in the summer and the inevitable consequence that
people fit air conditioning to remain comfortable.

Near here are a collection of up-market "apartments" each supplied
with an electric Aga (I agree, an entirely idiotic device). These
are less than two year old yet I'd guess about a quarter are now
sprouting air conditioners.

Secondly, some houses are used for work. This involves heat
producing devices such as computers and lights. Home offices are
often in a spare bedroom so the heat contribution makes the second
floor (which is always going to be warmer than the ground floor) even
more uncomfortable.

However, you do have a point - many houses are not adequately
designed. However they exist and peoples lives are tied up with
them. What do you propose should be done with all these badly
designed houses?

There are numerous greeny house is Milton Keynes and Oxford which are
abandoned in summer because they are unbearable.


Not places I frequent. Were they designed for passive solar
ventilation?


Of course, I am amazed you have never heard of them as they regularly
appear in greeny propaganda leaflets.

Suitable and adequate loft ventilation to prevent rot will have
almost zero effect upon temperature in the loft.


That depends on how it is designed and operated.


It won't make any difference whatsoever. To prevent rot requires
nothing more than trickle ventilation. Your claim that if the loft
is hot there is a risk of rot is fatuous.


--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

Doctor Drivel July 3rd 06 11:14 PM

How can I cool my loft?
 

"Peter Parry" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 02 Jul 2006 22:50:09 +0100, David Hansen
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Jul 2006 21:45:19 +0100 someone who may be Peter Parry
wrote this:-


One could, it makes very little difference however.


That depends on how well the house is designed for natural
ventilation.


It is quite possible to design houses for natural ventilation,


It is quite possible to design a house to use Mechanical Heat and Vent using
a 40w fan motor. Have high thermal mass (masonry), superinuslation all
around that, eves overhangs for shading of windows and walls and forced air
coming in from the north side. It makes a nice cool house in a UK climate.
No need for expensive to buy and run a/c units.


[email protected] July 4th 06 01:16 PM

How can I cool my loft?
 
Peter Parry wrote:

It is possible to have passive cooling to below ambient but only by
utilising a passing lake or deep buried ventilation chambers.
Neither are very practical for 33b Acacia Avenue.


For new builds one could put 4" pipes under the floor slab & insulation
and fan air in via those in summer. This would cool one floor a fair
bit. Or perhaps air could be drawn through the rubble horizontally, no
piping.


However, you do have a point - many houses are not adequately
designed. However they exist and peoples lives are tied up with
them. What do you propose should be done with all these badly
designed houses?


Drivel's input aside, a deciduous climber up the south side can take a
fair heat load off. So can a white roof.

I've also wondered about retrofitting a wall cavity fan to cool the
wall down at night time. It would need an effective filter to avoid
clogging the cavity with muck over the years. And of course it only
works with cavity walls that cant be CWIed, which is a minority, but
still a significant number of buildings.


NT


Guy King July 4th 06 02:11 PM

How can I cool my loft?
 
The message .com
from contains these words:

For new builds one could put 4" pipes under the floor slab & insulation
and fan air in via those in summer. This would cool one floor a fair
bit.


Floor in here is below outdoor air temperature, so it'd only make things
worse.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

Doctor Drivel July 4th 06 03:09 PM

How can I cool my loft?
 

"Guy King" wrote in message
...
The message .com
from contains these words:

For new builds one could put 4" pipes under the floor slab & insulation
and fan air in via those in summer. This would cool one floor a fair
bit.


Floor in here is below outdoor air temperature, so it'd only make things
worse.


You cool the floor overnight with cool air. Then it absorbs heat during the
day. Called air-core slabs. Popular in the USA.


Guy Dawson July 4th 06 04:38 PM

How can I cool my loft?
 
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Phil L" wrote in message


Design doesn't come into it


You are having a laugh of course. A high thermal mass building with
heavy to super insulation and appropriate eves overhangs to keep the sun
off windows and the walls, with adequate ventilation will be "very" cool
in summer time. There is NO need for a/c in the UK if the house is
designed right


Oh, to be in my parents house right now. It's built of of cob - mud/clay,
straw and flint stones with a thatched roof. There is no damp course. Not
least because if the cob dries out it starts to crumble.

So it has a high thermal mass, external insulation and evaporative water
cooling!

It's lovely and cool in the summer and warm in the winter.


-- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Guy Dawson I.T. Manager Crossflight Ltd


The Natural Philosopher July 4th 06 05:20 PM

How can I cool my loft?
 
Guy Dawson wrote:
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Phil L" wrote in message


Design doesn't come into it


You are having a laugh of course. A high thermal mass building with
heavy to super insulation and appropriate eves overhangs to keep the
sun off windows and the walls, with adequate ventilation will be
"very" cool in summer time. There is NO need for a/c in the UK if the
house is designed right


Oh, to be in my parents house right now. It's built of of cob - mud/clay,
straw and flint stones with a thatched roof. There is no damp course. Not
least because if the cob dries out it starts to crumble.

So it has a high thermal mass, external insulation and evaporative water
cooling!

It's lovely and cool in the summer and warm in the winter.


Yep. These factors are BEGINNING to be appreciated as we start to get
too hot summers as well as dreary cold winters..


In fact the humidity outside was such that the air coming into the house
via the windows the spouse keeps opening 'to cool the place' - despite
the fact that the house interior is some 5 degrees less than outside air
temperatures - cooled enough to set a humidity sensored extractor going..

Mass inside, insulation outside, and deep overhanging eaves is as good
as it gets this weather. Now if ONLY the computers equipment wasn't so
bloody lossy...


-- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Guy Dawson I.T. Manager Crossflight Ltd


Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk ¬) July 4th 06 07:17 PM

How can I cool my loft?
 
Mary Fisher wrote:

Shade windows where the sun is coming in, draw curtains work to a greater or
lesser extent. Open doors and windows to allow some air movement. Stay in
the shade.


I am a bit skeptical of the curtains issue.
Our upstairs living area was around 30 degrees yesterday, the loft was
40, but I haven't got any insulation at all up there since all the
ceilings were replaced.... back to the curtains though :-

Vertical thin off-white blinds were giving reading 30 degrees in direct
sunlight, whereas hardwood roman blinds were at least 5 degrees hotter
according to IR thermometer in the same living area on identical
direction windows. Once the sun gets through the windows, it's still
going to radiate into the room is it not?

Just to boast about 1970's architecture.... Downstairs semi-underground
bedrooms were a relaxing 22 degrees at about 18:00 last night.
:¬)

Water bed set to minimum temp of 18 degrees sucks away any unwanted body
heat. cool enough to keep our summer/winter duvet on the bed!

--
http://gymratz.co.uk - Best Gym Equipment & Bodybuilding Supplements UK.
http://trade-price-supplements.co.uk - TRADE PRICED SUPPLEMENTS for ALL!
http://fitness-equipment-uk.com - UK's No.1 Fitness Equipment Suppliers.
http://Water-Rower.co.uk - Worlds best prices on the Worlds best Rower.

David Hansen July 4th 06 07:38 PM

How can I cool my loft?
 
On Mon, 03 Jul 2006 22:02:13 +0100 someone who may be Peter Parry
wrote this:-

It is quite possible to design houses for natural ventilation, there
are quite a few in the Middle East. However, to work effectively
natural ventilation needs a sufficiently high building


Two stories and a loft are sufficiently high.

and high rooms.


An advantage, but low ceilings are not a great problem.

IT also requires space.


Where?

It helps if you have someone with nothing else to do with
their time than go around all day opening and closing windows and
curtains.


It might help slightly, but not much.

Secondly an air flow through the house creates wind chill so people
feel cooler. The air is still at a high temperature - ventilation
cannot cool a house to below ambient.


I didn't claim otherwise.

It is possible to have passive cooling to below ambient but only by
utilising a passing lake or deep buried ventilation chambers.
Neither are very practical for 33b Acacia Avenue.


Many houses have fairly cold spaces underneath.

The upstairs may be too hot in summer, but only if the house is
badly designed.


Absolute rubbish.


Excellent, another dogmatic statement.

Houses are often unoccupied during the day, that
means windows and doors are closed (or you have no insurance).
Amazingly not many people consider steel grills on all their doors
and windows to allow them to be left open to be "good design".


Suitably designed vents. That doesn't involve leaving accessible
windows or doors open, or covering them with grilles.

Most people also don't consider heat generating devices such as
refrigerators and freezers to be "bad design".


Feel free to use a search engine to find a post where I made such a
claim.

Modern building
regulations go overboard on keeping heat in but totally ignore
cooling.


I tend to agree. However, natural ventilation can deal with the heat
from always on gadgets like freezers. All it takes is a good design
and some understanding.

The net result is an increasing number of houses which are
uncomfortably hot in the summer and the inevitable consequence that
people fit air conditioning to remain comfortable.


Debatable.

Secondly, some houses are used for work.


Indeed. I know several and none have air cooling units.

What do you propose should be done with all these badly
designed houses?


Learning from past mistakes and gradually modifying the mistakes.

Of course, I am amazed you have never heard of them as they regularly
appear in greeny propaganda leaflets.


Milton Keynes and Oxford are a long way away.

Your claim that if the loft
is hot there is a risk of rot is fatuous.


Excellent, another dogmatic statement. The reality is rather more
complicated, as it depends on why the loft is hot.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Peter Parry July 4th 06 08:23 PM

How can I cool my loft?
 
On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 17:17:06 GMT, "Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk ;¬)"
wrote:


Water bed set to minimum temp of 18 degrees sucks away any unwanted body
heat. cool enough to keep our summer/winter duvet on the bed!


Someone I know has rigged a beer cooler to their water bed to keep it
at a habitable temperature!




--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

David Hansen July 4th 06 10:05 PM

How can I cool my loft?
 
On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 17:17:06 GMT someone who may be "Pet @
www.gymratz.co.uk ;¬)" wrote this:-

Just to boast about 1970's architecture.... Downstairs semi-underground
bedrooms were a relaxing 22 degrees at about 18:00 last night.


With the appropriate use of the various ventilation options my 1960s
house remains at about 20-22C even in the warmest weather. That is
true of the south facing public rooms and the north facing bedrooms.
The walls and roof are reasonably reflective, both are insulated.
However it does not have external shading. I do ensure it is cooled
overnight, by ventilation. However, I do understand what is going on
and how to get the building to behave as I want it.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

David Hansen July 4th 06 10:07 PM

How can I cool my loft?
 
On 4 Jul 2006 04:16:01 -0700 someone who may be
wrote this:-

For new builds one could put 4" pipes under the floor slab & insulation
and fan air in via those in summer. This would cool one floor a fair
bit. Or perhaps air could be drawn through the rubble horizontally, no
piping.


One of the things I sometimes wonder about is why so many UK houses
are built without cellars. These are excellent at moderating summer
temperatures.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Andy Hall July 4th 06 10:15 PM

How can I cool my loft?
 
On Tue, 4 Jul 2006 21:07:47 +0100, David Hansen wrote
(in article ):

On 4 Jul 2006 04:16:01 -0700 someone who may be
wrote this:-

For new builds one could put 4" pipes under the floor slab & insulation
and fan air in via those in summer. This would cool one floor a fair
bit. Or perhaps air could be drawn through the rubble horizontally, no
piping.


One of the things I sometimes wonder about is why so many UK houses
are built without cellars. These are excellent at moderating summer
temperatures.




Simple. Are you willing to pay?


Actually I would be, but for two reasons.

- additional recreational area

- wine storage.

Unfortunately the proletariat does not seem to agree with this notion.



Guy King July 4th 06 10:32 PM

How can I cool my loft?
 
The message
from David Hansen contains these words:

One of the things I sometimes wonder about is why so many UK houses
are built without cellars.


Cost.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

Andy Hall July 5th 06 12:28 AM

How can I cool my loft?
 
On Tue, 4 Jul 2006 22:34:36 +0100, Owain wrote
(in article ):

Guy King wrote:
One of the things I sometimes wonder about is why so many UK houses
are built without cellars.

Cost.


I suppose with cellars, most UK houses would then be three-storey and
have all those complicated fire regulations.

Germans et al seem to cope though.

Owain



Apparently they seem to have gone off Italian pizzas, although I'm not sure
what that's about.


However, they needn't worry. Dr Oetker comes to the rescue. If you have
satellite TV, he is regularly there advertising his great products.


http://www.oetker.de/wga/oetker/html...664d7m.de.html


The thing is... if I was looking for really good authentic Italian pizza
cooked lovingly in a woodburning pizza oven, would I immediately think of the
good Dr. Oetker? I'm sure that he's a very nice chap and everything, but
somehow something is missing. It all looks reasonable on paper and I am
sure that it's wonderfully hygienic but it doesn't quite do it for me.

I have it on good authority that his next marketing masterpiece is the
compact fluorescent light bulb.





Doctor Drivel July 5th 06 01:01 AM

How can I cool my loft?
 

"David Hansen" wrote in message
...
On 4 Jul 2006 04:16:01 -0700 someone who may be
wrote this:-

For new builds one could put 4" pipes under the floor slab & insulation
and fan air in via those in summer. This would cool one floor a fair
bit. Or perhaps air could be drawn through the rubble horizontally, no
piping.


One of the things I sometimes wonder about is why so many UK houses
are built without cellars. These are excellent at moderating summer
temperatures.


The land price is so high because land is artificially kept high, they skimp
on the house.


Doctor Drivel July 5th 06 01:02 AM

How can I cool my loft?
 

"Andy Hall" aka Matt wrote in message
...

Unfortunately the proletariat does not seem to agree with this notion.


Matt, well divorce her.



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