Hi

Excuse my ignorance however I know nothing about plumbing or central
heating systems but need help with some advice.

I live in a 1930's averaged sized 3 bedroom semi-detached house. The
heating system needs replacing as its not efficient and old. The
radiators we have are too small for the rooms and do not heat them very

well. We currently have a back-boiler that we want removed and have
what I think is called a 'conventional heating system' (tank in the
loft and storage tank in a cupboard.

A heating engineer came round to quote and advise on what we should do.

His recommendation was to stay well clear of condensing boilers
(because they are not reliable and hard to fix??) and didn't suggest a
combi boilder because our pipework wasn't suited.

He suggested keeping the current set-up but replacing the tank, boiler
and putting new radiators up and heating controls. We are having a
single-storey extension built and the tank would be piped into the new
extension.

All this was priced at £4000 which seems a lot to me, however I don't
know for sure.

Are condensing boilers that bad and does the pipework make any
difference if you want a combi boiler? Does that price seem excessive
or is that about right?

Any help or advice would be appreciated.

thanks

On 29 Jun 2006 08:16:32 -0700 someone who may be
wrote this:-

I live in a 1930's averaged sized 3 bedroom semi-detached house. The
heating system needs replacing as its not efficient and old. The
radiators we have are too small for the rooms and do not heat them very
well.

Have you installed cavity wall and loft insulation? If not do that
before anything else. There are grants to do this for everyone.

How draughtproof are the windows and doors? If they are draughty
sort them out. The are grants to do this for some.

With all this done the existing radiators might emit enough heat.
However, if they are old this might be a good time to replace them
with modern finned radiators as they might be on the way out, along
with the pipework. There is no real way to properly advise on this
via a newsgroup.

His recommendation was to stay well clear of condensing boilers
(because they are not reliable and hard to fix??)

Less of a problem than when they were a new innovation. However, if
you live in Prescottland there will be a lot of hoops to jump
through to avoid having one installed.

and didn't suggest a combi boilder because our pipework wasn't suited.

Probably good advice. However, there is no real way to properly
advise on this via a newsgroup.

He suggested keeping the current set-up but replacing the tank, boiler
and putting new radiators up and heating controls. We are having a
single-storey extension built and the tank would be piped into the new
extension.

By "the tank" do you mean the hot water cylinder, or the tanks in
the loft?

Without knowing the layout of the house and piping it is difficult
to say much on the cylinder. However, the pipe run from the boiler
to the cylinder should be insulated. So should the hot pipes from
the cylinder to the taps.

You might like to consider alternative ways of heating the cylinder.
An immersion heater is worthwhile as a low cost backup. You might
also like to consider a solar ready cylinder, which has an
additional coil for solar water heating. You could then put in solar
heating later. Such things are still long term financial
investments, at current gas prices, but you may consider it
worthwhile for other reasons.

If the tanks in the loft date from the 1930s they should certainly
be replaced by modern ones to the latest standards.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

wrote:

His recommendation was to stay well clear of condensing boilers
(because they are not reliable and hard to fix??) and didn't suggest a
combi boilder because our pipework wasn't suited.

He suggested keeping the current set-up but replacing the tank, boiler
and putting new radiators up and heating controls. We are having a
single-storey extension built and the tank would be piped into the new
extension.

So what sort of boiler *is* he suggesting, then, if he's ruling out
condensing and combis? The thing is, current regulations now mean that
basically you *have* to fit a condensing boiler - see
http://tinyurl.com/kuex9 (or
http://www.odpm.gov.uk/pub/800/GasandoilcentralheatingboilersAdvicetohouseholders PDF110Kb_id1130800.pdf)
This is all down to reducing domestic energy consumption.

There are exceptions to this, if you have a complicated set of
extenuating circumstances - see Appendix A of the following pdf file:
http://tinyurl.com/hkx6u (or
http://www.odpm.gov.uk/pub/340/DomesticHeatingComplianceGuide_id1165340.pdf)

David

Lobster wrote:
wrote:

His recommendation was to stay well clear of condensing boilers
(because they are not reliable and hard to fix??) and didn't suggest a
combi boilder because our pipework wasn't suited.

He suggested keeping the current set-up but replacing the tank, boiler
and putting new radiators up and heating controls. We are having a
single-storey extension built and the tank would be piped into the new
extension.

So what sort of boiler *is* he suggesting, then, if he's ruling out
condensing and combis? The thing is, current regulations now mean that
basically you *have* to fit a condensing boiler - see
http://tinyurl.com/kuex9 (or
http://www.odpm.gov.uk/pub/800/GasandoilcentralheatingboilersAdvicetohouseholders PDF110Kb_id1130800.pdf)
This is all down to reducing domestic energy consumption.

There are exceptions to this, if you have a complicated set of
extenuating circumstances - see Appendix A of the following pdf file:
http://tinyurl.com/hkx6u (or
http://www.odpm.gov.uk/pub/340/DomesticHeatingComplianceGuide_id1165340.pdf)

David

He says I should stick with my current system, water-tank in the loft
and boiler in the cupboard. He would replace everything with newer
stuff. He did say he is meant to supply a condensing boiler but said he
wouldn't as they are too unreliable and hard to repair. I guess there
are ways around him fitting a condensing boiler?? Is £4000 excessive
for what he is suggesting?

thanks

wrote in message
oups.com...

A heating engineer came round to
quote and advise on what we should do.

His recommendation was to stay well
clear of condensing boilers
(because they are not reliable and
hard to fix??)

Sounds like a plumber rather than a heating engineer. he is talking though
his botty. Condensing boilers are similar to non-condensing boilers except
a drain is added. If he is fitting non-condensing boilers irrespective he
breaking the law.

and didn't suggest a
combi boilder because our
pipework wasn't suited.

Whatever that means. Time filling a bucket at the kitchen tap. Time it in
litres per minute. Let us know.

A "high flow" combi is probably the best solution for you in house that
size. They save a lot of space. There are a few good makes around.

Are condensing boilers that bad

Your "heating engineer" hasn't a clue. They have to be fitted and only in
exceptional circumstances can they be omitted, like in flats. They save on
fuel bills.

and
does the pipework make any
difference if you want a combi boiler?

See above.

wrote:

He says I should stick with my current system, water-tank in the loft
and boiler in the cupboard. He would replace everything with newer

That may be a good plan - depnds on how keen you are on keeping the back
boiler.

stuff. He did say he is meant to supply a condensing boiler but said he
wouldn't as they are too unreliable and hard to repair. I guess there

Pick a good one and it will be no more unreliable than any modern
boiler. Repair of them is a bit of a non issue since the only real
difference from a serviceing point of view it to check the condensate
drain is not blocked.

It sounds like your plumber is talking out the back of his head.

are ways around him fitting a condensing boiler?? Is £4000 excessive
for what he is suggesting?

Oh yes! very much so if we are talking like for like replacement.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In message .com,
writes
Hi

Excuse my ignorance however I know nothing about plumbing or central
heating systems but need help with some advice.

I live in a 1930's averaged sized 3 bedroom semi-detached house. The
heating system needs replacing as its not efficient and old. The
radiators we have are too small for the rooms and do not heat them very

well. We currently have a back-boiler that we want removed and have
what I think is called a 'conventional heating system' (tank in the
loft and storage tank in a cupboard.

A heating engineer came round to quote and advise on what we should do.

They are not engineers, they are installers / fitters


His recommendation was to stay well clear of condensing boilers
(because they are not reliable and hard to fix??) and didn't suggest a
combi boilder because our pipework wasn't suited.

Legally after the 1st April last year, unless there are sufficient
mitigating circumstances, effectively, by law you must install a
condensing boiler


He suggested keeping the current set-up but replacing the tank, boiler
and putting new radiators up and heating controls. We are having a
single-storey extension built and the tank would be piped into the new
extension.

It sounds like he doesn't understand them and prolly shouldn't be let
anywhere near your heating system

Look for someone else, ask around
--
geoff

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Condensing boilers are similar to non-condensing boilers except
a drain is added.

Good grief.

--
*If God dropped acid, would he see people?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

wrote:
Lobster wrote:
wrote:

His recommendation was to stay well clear of condensing boilers
(because they are not reliable and hard to fix??) and didn't suggest a
combi boilder because our pipework wasn't suited.

He suggested keeping the current set-up but replacing the tank, boiler
and putting new radiators up and heating controls. We are having a
single-storey extension built and the tank would be piped into the new
extension.
So what sort of boiler *is* he suggesting, then, if he's ruling out
condensing and combis? The thing is, current regulations now mean that
basically you *have* to fit a condensing boiler - see
http://tinyurl.com/kuex9 (or
http://www.odpm.gov.uk/pub/800/GasandoilcentralheatingboilersAdvicetohouseholders PDF110Kb_id1130800.pdf)
This is all down to reducing domestic energy consumption.

There are exceptions to this, if you have a complicated set of
extenuating circumstances - see Appendix A of the following pdf file:
http://tinyurl.com/hkx6u (or
http://www.odpm.gov.uk/pub/340/DomesticHeatingComplianceGuide_id1165340.pdf)

David

He says I should stick with my current system, water-tank in the loft
and boiler in the cupboard. He would replace everything with newer
stuff. He did say he is meant to supply a condensing boiler but said he
wouldn't as they are too unreliable and hard to repair. I guess there
are ways around him fitting a condensing boiler?? Is £4000 excessive
for what he is suggesting?

thanks

I don't think *oil* boilers are ever condensing...

Anyway, if you have a gravity fed system, the pipes will be large and
low pressure.

If space is limited a combi withe enough output to heat a shower without
any form of stored hot water may or may not be possible.

I think that the ideal for the house, in absolute terms,. may require a
complete re-plumb...and that will be more expensive.

The devil here is probably in the detail..if its were possible say to
install a pressurized DHW tank, and the pipework would take the
pressure, then mains pressure system boiler is a lovely way to go..no
header tank, all water at full mains pressure..BUT the plumbing IS
extensive for this.

Combis are OK for small houses with a single shower/bath..but I have had
experience with just two adults and two kids of howls of despair from
the shower when I tried to wash the dishes...

Adding a heatbank to a combi makes it just as expensive and nearly as
complex as a mains pressure HW tank anyway..

...but leaving a header tank in the roof doesn't get you a high hot water
flow rate either. Useless for showers unless pumped, but OK for baths.

I think £4000 for an extensive replumb is about par for the course
really. Its more important to get a reliable job done that will last
than skimp the odd couple of hundred.

Of course with pushfit plastic piping its a LOT easier to feed new
pipework around a small house than it used to be..you may be able to
save by doing the radiator and DHW plumbing yourself, and leaving just
the boiler to he professional.

There is no simple answer to your question..you have to educate yourself
to a level that will enable you to make the best decision.

Only one thing you will find here as a common theme :-

"Insulate, Insulate Insulate".

raden wrote:
In message .com,
writes
Hi

Excuse my ignorance however I know nothing about plumbing or central
heating systems but need help with some advice.

I live in a 1930's averaged sized 3 bedroom semi-detached house. The
heating system needs replacing as its not efficient and old. The
radiators we have are too small for the rooms and do not heat them very

well. We currently have a back-boiler that we want removed and have
what I think is called a 'conventional heating system' (tank in the
loft and storage tank in a cupboard.

A heating engineer came round to quote and advise on what we should do.

They are not engineers, they are installers / fitters


His recommendation was to stay well clear of condensing boilers
(because they are not reliable and hard to fix??) and didn't suggest a
combi boilder because our pipework wasn't suited.

Legally after the 1st April last year, unless there are sufficient
mitigating circumstances, effectively, by law you must install a
condensing boiler


He suggested keeping the current set-up but replacing the tank, boiler
and putting new radiators up and heating controls. We are having a
single-storey extension built and the tank would be piped into the new
extension.

It sounds like he doesn't understand them and prolly shouldn't be let
anywhere near your heating system

Look for someone else, ask around
--
geoff


The guy works for the gas board and has done for years and years. He
came highly recommended however I've since be told by a mate that the
£4000 quote is very high. After reading some of the replies I'm now
confused why he's suggesting the keep my current setup as this is
apparently the LEAST efficient method. If he's prepared to not install
a condensing boiler because they are so unreliable (his words not mine)
I cannot understand why he doesn't recommend a combi boiler instead?
He did say my pipes were not suitable for a combi boiler but after
asking other mates with a bit of DIY knowledge I've been told thats
rubbish.

Maybe keeping my current setup is easier for him, and more profitable,
I don't know??

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Lobster wrote:
wrote:

His recommendation was to stay well clear of condensing boilers
(because they are not reliable and hard to fix??) and didn't suggest a
combi boilder because our pipework wasn't suited.

He suggested keeping the current set-up but replacing the tank, boiler
and putting new radiators up and heating controls. We are having a
single-storey extension built and the tank would be piped into the new
extension.
So what sort of boiler *is* he suggesting, then, if he's ruling out
condensing and combis? The thing is, current regulations now mean that
basically you *have* to fit a condensing boiler - see
http://tinyurl.com/kuex9 (or
http://www.odpm.gov.uk/pub/800/GasandoilcentralheatingboilersAdvicetohouseholders PDF110Kb_id1130800.pdf)
This is all down to reducing domestic energy consumption.

There are exceptions to this, if you have a complicated set of
extenuating circumstances - see Appendix A of the following pdf file:
http://tinyurl.com/hkx6u (or
http://www.odpm.gov.uk/pub/340/DomesticHeatingComplianceGuide_id1165340.pdf)

David

He says I should stick with my current system, water-tank in the loft
and boiler in the cupboard. He would replace everything with newer
stuff. He did say he is meant to supply a condensing boiler but said he
wouldn't as they are too unreliable and hard to repair. I guess there
are ways around him fitting a condensing boiler?? Is £4000 excessive
for what he is suggesting?

thanks

I don't think *oil* boilers are ever condensing...

Not again. There are oil condensing boilers.

Combis are OK for small houses with a single shower/bath..

Not again. Two bathroom combi are available.

Adding a heatbank to a combi

Why would anyone sane do that?

Only one thing you will find here as a common theme :-

"Insulate, Insulate Insulate".

Wow! sense.

In message .com,
writes

The guy works for the gas board and has done for years and years.

There's no such thing as the gas board any more

I know a few fitters who work for BG and shouldn't really be let near a
gas boiler

He
came highly recommended however I've since be told by a mate that the
£4000 quote is very high.

Very high

After reading some of the replies I'm now
confused why he's suggesting the keep my current setup as this is
apparently the LEAST efficient method. If he's prepared to not install
a condensing boiler because they are so unreliable (his words not mine)
I cannot understand why he doesn't recommend a combi boiler instead?

More money for less work ?


He did say my pipes were not suitable for a combi boiler but after
asking other mates with a bit of DIY knowledge I've been told thats
rubbish.

Maybe keeping my current setup is easier for him, and more profitable,
I don't know??


--
geoff

wrote:
raden wrote:

In message .com,
writes

Hi

Excuse my ignorance however I know nothing about plumbing or central
heating systems but need help with some advice.

I live in a 1930's averaged sized 3 bedroom semi-detached house. The
heating system needs replacing as its not efficient and old. The
radiators we have are too small for the rooms and do not heat them very

well. We currently have a back-boiler that we want removed and have
what I think is called a 'conventional heating system' (tank in the
loft and storage tank in a cupboard.

A heating engineer came round to quote and advise on what we should do.

They are not engineers, they are installers / fitters


His recommendation was to stay well clear of condensing boilers
(because they are not reliable and hard to fix??) and didn't suggest a
combi boilder because our pipework wasn't suited.

Legally after the 1st April last year, unless there are sufficient
mitigating circumstances, effectively, by law you must install a
condensing boiler


He suggested keeping the current set-up but replacing the tank, boiler
and putting new radiators up and heating controls. We are having a
single-storey extension built and the tank would be piped into the new
extension.


It sounds like he doesn't understand them and prolly shouldn't be let
anywhere near your heating system

Look for someone else, ask around
--
geoff



The guy works for the gas board and has done for years and years. He
came highly recommended however I've since be told by a mate that the
£4000 quote is very high. After reading some of the replies I'm now
confused why he's suggesting the keep my current setup as this is
apparently the LEAST efficient method. If he's prepared to not install
a condensing boiler because they are so unreliable (his words not mine)
I cannot understand why he doesn't recommend a combi boiler instead?
He did say my pipes were not suitable for a combi boiler but after
asking other mates with a bit of DIY knowledge I've been told thats
rubbish.

Maybe keeping my current setup is easier for him, and more profitable,
I don't know??

By "set up" do you mean he suggests you retain your existing back
boiler? If not, then what?

David

On 30 Jun 2006 09:43:59 -0700, wrote:

If he's prepared to not install
a condensing boiler because they are so unreliable (his words not mine)
I cannot understand why he doesn't recommend a combi boiler instead?

Because your gas board sounding like a 5 watter he still has half a
clue. Combi's with their cold/scalding/lukewarm/cold dribble are old
technology fit only for the bin.

The whole world is now rapidly realising that storage systems are the
future. You can't beat 100+ litres of hot water at 60 deg C that can
be replenished in 20 minutes or so for the next persons bath, combis
would take an hour or more to fill a bath and the water would only be
lukewarm at best. If the woman of the household has a hot bath and a
cadburys flake the chances of intimate relations in the following
hours go through the roof, a cold/scalding/lukewarm/cold dribble
shower from a combi might mean a spell down accident and emergency but
it definitely means no sex, socks in bed and a grumpy old woman. You
know it makes sense.

Incidentally copper has recently rocketed in price because the Japs
are relentlessly dumping their combi's for storage systems, the
landfill sites in Japan are now full to bursting of instant water
heaters and combi's and the container terminals are full of copper
cylinders produced here in the UK. So buy now before the price goes up
any more.





--

"Matt" aka Lord Hall wrote in message
...
On 30 Jun 2006 09:43:59 -0700, wrote:

If he's prepared to not install
a condensing boiler because they are so unreliable (his words not mine)
I cannot understand why he doesn't recommend a combi boiler instead?

Because your

snip a trolling Lord Hall - total garbage indeed

Lord Hall, nice trolling try. Never worked.

By "set up" do you mean he suggests you retain your existing back
boiler? If not, then what?

David



No, we want the back-boiler removed. He is going to replace it and
install it in another room. He just recommended keeping the same setup,
as opposed to changing it to a combi or condensing boiler. He thinks
the system I have now is best for me, although I'm beginning to wonder
as the combi option seems much better to me.

In article .com,
wrote:
No, we want the back-boiler removed. He is going to replace it and
install it in another room. He just recommended keeping the same setup,
as opposed to changing it to a combi or condensing boiler. He thinks
the system I have now is best for me, although I'm beginning to wonder
as the combi option seems much better to me.

Combi and condensing are separate issues. A combi boiler (at a reasonable
price) may be OK if you don't take baths often, or are willing to wait
quite some time for them to fill. To get one which will fill your bath as
quickly as your existing storage system is likely to be *very* expensive,
and may involve enlarging both the water and gas mains.

A non combi condensing boiler *may* simply replace the one you have with
no other alterations - although you'd be advised to update your system and
controls. You should get a reduction in gas consumption of over 25% since
your present setup is just about as inefficient as they come.

--
*Why do the two "sanction"s (noun and verb) mean opposites?*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article .com,
wrote:
Combi and condensing are separate issues. A combi boiler (at a
reasonable price) may be OK if you don't take baths often, or are
willing to wait quite some time for them to fill. To get one which
will fill your bath as quickly as your existing storage system is
likely to be *very* expensive, and may involve enlarging both the
water and gas mains.

A non combi condensing boiler *may* simply replace the one you have
with no other alterations - although you'd be advised to update your
system and controls. You should get a reduction in gas consumption of
over 25% since your present setup is just about as inefficient as they
come.


I'm none the wiser now. There seems to be people who think combi boilers
are best, others don't, some think condensing boilers are best, others
don't and some think the traditional method is best and others don't.

Well, I've tried to explain the difference between a storage system (like
yours) and a combi. Which bit wasn't clear?

Condensing boilers *are* cheaper to run, gas wise, and if you choose
carefully - read the FAQ - should be ok reliability wise.

I want to get rid of my back-boiler because it's noisy, and the thought
of not having a tank in the loft appeals to me just in case we want to
convert the loft in years to come.

You can still have a storage system without the tanks in the loft.

My only concern is how much against
condensing boilers my gas fitter was. He said he would never install one
as they cost loads to fix and break down regularly. I'm not sure how
accurate that statement is because lots of people seem to have no
problems with condensing boilers???

He's a fitter. I doubt he has experience of all the boilers on the market,
and BG tend to supply what they make the biggest profit on.

It really is confusing...I just want my aged system replaced at a
reasonable price with a system that works well and is reliable.....I
guess thats what everyone wants.

£4000 to basically replace my system and add a few extra radiators
seems excessive and from what I've gathered this method is the least
efficient.

I'd get some more quotes. Your man is wrong about so many things = why
should his price be correct?

--
*I'm really easy to get along with once people learn to worship me

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article .com,
wrote:
No, we want the back-boiler removed. He is going to replace it and
install it in another room. He just recommended keeping the same setup,
as opposed to changing it to a combi or condensing boiler. He thinks
the system I have now is best for me, although I'm beginning to wonder
as the combi option seems much better to me.

Combi and condensing are separate
issues.

Richard Cranium, you got that right 10/10. Now see what he says...

A combi boiler (at a reasonable
price) may be OK if you don't take
baths often, or are willing to wait
quite some time for them to fill.

...oh my God! After a good start Richard screws up again. There are high
flow two bathroom combis around. In fact quite a few.

A non combi condensing boiler
*may* simply replace the one you
have with no other alterations

Richard, he has to install a condesning boiler by law.

Sad isn't it. It must be time for his cocoa.

wrote:

I want to get rid of my back-boiler because it's noisy, and the thought
of not having a tank in the loft appeals to me just in case we want to
convert the loft in years to come. My only concern is how much against
condensing boilers my gas fitter was. He said he would never install
one as they cost loads to fix and break down regularly. I'm not sure
how accurate that statement is because lots of people seem to have no
problems with condensing boilers???

I think you're still missing the point that it's not an option for you
not to fit a condensing boiler (be that a condensing combi or a
condensing 'normal' boiler) [1]. These are what everybody is having
fitted these days. We've had one (a Vaillant) for about 4-5 years,
never had any problems with it. Don't forget that the reason you have
to have a condensing boiler is because they are more energy-efficient -
ie you save a lot of money on your gas bills.

As others have said, find yourself a proper heating engineer sharpish.

By the way, it's perfectly possible to have a hot water tank (it would
be a sealed mains-pressure one) and no cold water tank in the loft, if
that's what you want to avoid; no need for a combi. That's what I have;
works great, especially for showers as it generates oodles of hot
water at mains pressure.

David

[1] Unless you 'qualify' for a non-condensing model - did you check that
flow-chart in the link I gave in my last post?

wrote in message
oups.com...

You should get a reduction
in gas consumption of over 25% since
your present setup is just about as
inefficient as they come.

I'm none the wiser now.

You won't be as Richard Cranium is a total. He didn't;to service his boiler
for 12 years and thought it a fabulous thing, and advised every one else to
do the same. Just ignore him.

There seems to be people who think combi
boilers are best, others don't,

Take a tip from a pro. Get a good high flow combi. Saves space and works
brilliantly. The Alpha CD50 is great.

some think condensing boilers are best,

Condensing boilers are "mandatory" unless you can prove otherwise. If you
buy one get one with one piece heat exchanger, pre-mix burner and downwards
or horizontal firing burner. Don't get one with two heat exchangers. They
are crap.

There are condensing boilers and non-condensing boilers. There are combi
condensing boilers and combi non-condensing boilers.

You need a: combi condensing boiler.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article .com,
wrote:
Combi and condensing are separate issues. A combi boiler (at a
reasonable price) may be OK if you don't take baths often, or are
willing to wait quite some time for them to fill. To get one which
will fill your bath as quickly as your existing storage system is
likely to be *very* expensive, and may involve enlarging both the
water and gas mains.

A non combi condensing boiler *may* simply replace the one you have
with no other alterations - although you'd be advised to update your
system and controls. You should get a reduction in gas consumption of
over 25% since your present setup is just about as inefficient as they
come.

I'm none the wiser now.

Well, I've tried to explain

Richard, you are idiot, sop please do not try to explain something you know
absolutely nothing about. Now it is just about cocoa time for you.

...Oh not again, here we go
...Richard gives us info we don't want to know
...the info is so poor tis true
...so how does this garbage affect you?

...well take no heed of babble and drool
...as instantly you will recognise a fool

...instictively you will spy
...in newsgroups with DIY
...attempting wisdom the fools will try

...so be very watchful of what the fools say
...and don't give these half-wits the time of day

In message ews.net,
Doctor Drivel writes

wrote in message
roups.com...

You should get a reduction
in gas consumption of over 25% since
your present setup is just about as
inefficient as they come.

I'm none the wiser now.

You won't be as Richard Cranium is a total.

And as you might already have guessed

you take notice of Drivel at your peril ...

--
geoff

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Combi and condensing are separate
issues.

Richard Cranium, you got that right 10/10. Now see what he says...

A combi boiler (at a reasonable price) may be OK if you don't take
baths often, or are willing to wait quite some time for them to fill.

..oh my God! After a good start Richard screws up again. There are
high flow two bathroom combis around. In fact quite a few.

But you only quote adverts and don't understand about what is a decent
flow, so I'll educate you.

My bath fills at near 40 litres a minute (both taps) with water so hot as
to be just about bearable. Pray tell what combi does this, and the cost?
And speculate on the cost of upgrading both water and gas mains?

For once it would be nice if you actually stated some real world figures.

But of course you won't because no such domestic combi exists.

--
*If tennis elbow is painful, imagine suffering with tennis balls *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
There seems to be people who think combi

boilers are best, others don't,

Take a tip from a pro.

Trouble is a pro in what? Certainly not central heating design.

Get a good high flow combi. Saves space and works
brilliantly. The Alpha CD50 is great.

This idiot thinks 'high flow' in an ad actually means something like the
flow you'll get from a storage system. It's actually only high flow
compared to a poorer flow combi.

--
*(over a sketch of the titanic) "The boat sank - get over it

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 1 Jul 2006 19:19:58 +0100, Doctor Drivel wrote:

Take a tip from a pro.

Ah, referring to your time blowing sailors at the docks, again.

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message ews.net,
Doctor Drivel writes

wrote in message
groups.com...

You should get a reduction
in gas consumption of over 25% since
your present setup is just about as
inefficient as they come.

I'm none the wiser now.

You won't be as Richard Cranium is a total.

And as you might already have guessed

you take notice of Drivel at your peril ...

Maxie, are you on the raz again? England were noblely defeated against the
odds with a bent Argie ref and diving Diegos. As a great Englandist I'm
sure you are down in the mouth.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through ahze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
There seems to be people who think combi

boilers are best, others don't,

Take a tip from a pro.

Trouble is

Troubles is that you are up too late. The warden will be upset if she
knows.

"Steve Firth" fresh in from kicking **** wrote in
message ...
On Sat, 1 Jul 2006 19:19:58 +0100, Doctor Drivel wrote:

Take a tip from a pro.

Ah, referring to your time blowing sailors at the docks, again.

****kicker, do you know what docks are?

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

Combi and condensing are separate
issues.

Richard Cranium, you got that right
10/10. Now see what he says...

A combi boiler (at a reasonable price)
may be OK if you don't take
baths often, or are willing to wait quite
some time for them to fill.

..oh my God! After a good start Richard
screws up again. There are
high flow two bathroom combis around.
In fact quite a few.

But

snip senile babble

Sad isn't it. He put high pressure taps on low pressure system and wondered
why the water dribbles out. Sad isn't it. And he gives advise on these
matters too. Very sad. he should go an listen to his Matt Monro LPs.

In message ews.net,
Doctor Drivel writes

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message
enews.net, Doctor
Drivel writes

wrote in message
egroups.com...

You should get a reduction
in gas consumption of over 25% since
your present setup is just about as
inefficient as they come.

I'm none the wiser now.

You won't be as Richard Cranium is a total.

And as you might already have guessed

you take notice of Drivel at your peril ...

Maxie, are you on the raz again? England were noblely defeated against
the odds with a bent Argie ref and diving Diegos. As a great
Englandist I'm sure you are down in the mouth.

.... As you can see from his postings, he's a few pixels short of the
full picture

--
geoff

wrote:
Combi and condensing are separate issues. A combi boiler (at a reasonable
price) may be OK if you don't take baths often, or are willing to wait
quite some time for them to fill. To get one which will fill your bath as
quickly as your existing storage system is likely to be *very* expensive,
and may involve enlarging both the water and gas mains.

A non combi condensing boiler *may* simply replace the one you have with
no other alterations - although you'd be advised to update your system and
controls. You should get a reduction in gas consumption of over 25% since
your present setup is just about as inefficient as they come.


I'm none the wiser now. There seems to be people who think combi
boilers are best, others don't, some think condensing boilers are best,
others don't and some think the traditional method is best and others
don't.

I want to get rid of my back-boiler because it's noisy, and the thought
of not having a tank in the loft appeals to me just in case we want to
convert the loft in years to come. My only concern is how much against
condensing boilers my gas fitter was. He said he would never install
one as they cost loads to fix and break down regularly. I'm not sure
how accurate that statement is because lots of people seem to have no
problems with condensing boilers???

It really is confusing...I just want my aged system replaced at a
reasonable price with a system that works well and is reliable.....I
guess thats what everyone wants.


Right.

Given what you say ask your plumber to quote you on putting either a
mains pressure system boiler and HW tank, or a combi and a heatbank, and
upgrading the plumbing to enable such to be used.

That gets rid of the tank in the roof and will give you a lot of high
pressure hot water.

I do not think that any boiler currently on general sale will NOT
conform to current regulations. So don't worry about 'condensing'..all
that means is that the final exhaust temperature of the boiler is a bit
lower, so more heat goes into the water, and less up the flue..more or less.




£4000 to basically replace my system and add a few extra radiators
seems excessive and from what I've gathered this method is the least
efficient.

Steve Firth wrote:
On Sat, 1 Jul 2006 19:19:58 +0100, Doctor Drivel wrote:

Take a tip from a pro.

Ah, referring to your time blowing sailors at the docks, again.

Mmm. I don't get to see drivels posts because the temptation to amuse
oneself answering him wastes so much time, so he got killfiled..

To the OP. I think whatever else the assembled masses here may
disagree on, they agree on one thing. Anything Drivel says can be safely
ignored.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
To the OP. I think whatever else the assembled masses here may
disagree on, they agree on one thing. Anything Drivel says can be safely
ignored.

It's sad as his avid catalogue reading could be of use to the community -
if he only didn't add his opinions and claim to be a pro which he so
patently isn't.

--
*The problem with the world is that everyone is a few drinks behind *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I do not think that any boiler currently on general sale will NOT
conform to current regulations.

Non condensing boilers are still readily available. The get out clause
where they may be used under certain circumstances ensures this. And there
are no 'laws' about supplying them - only their installation.

--
*Two many clicks spoil the browse *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sun, 2 Jul 2006 09:48:17 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote
(in article ):

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I do not think that any boiler currently on general sale will NOT
conform to current regulations.

Non condensing boilers are still readily available. The get out clause
where they may be used under certain circumstances ensures this. And there
are no 'laws' about supplying them - only their installation.



It *may* be that in the case of a backboiler, depending on the house type,
that it is legitimately possible to replace like with like.

I recently ran through the building regulations points system for my parents
house to check the options at the point that the backboiler needs to be
replaced.

The points score ended up as

590 for house type
350 for boiler in different room (it would have to be moved)
200 for extended flue

Total 1140 points

An alternative to the extended flue would be a condensate pump, but that
still results in a score of 1040.

At replacement time, they might elect to go for a condensing model, but are
not required to by current regulations.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
To the OP. I think whatever else the assembled masses here may
disagree on, they agree on one thing. Anything Drivel says can be safely
ignored.

It's sad as his avid catalogue reading could be of use to the community -
if he only didn't add his opinions and claim to be a pro which he so
patently isn't.

Indeed.

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message ews.net,
Doctor Drivel writes

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message ews.net,
Doctor Drivel writes

wrote in message
legroups.com...

You should get a reduction
in gas consumption of over 25% since
your present setup is just about as
inefficient as they come.

I'm none the wiser now.

You won't be as Richard Cranium is a total.

And as you might already have guessed

you take notice of Drivel at your peril ...

Maxie, are you on the raz again? England were noblely defeated against
the odds with a bent Argie ref and diving Diegos. As a great Englandist
I'm sure you are down in the mouth.

... As you can see from his postings, he's a few pixels short of the full
picture

Maxie, you are still on the raz I see. I hope you are fine by Monday
morning.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Steve Firth wrote:
On Sat, 1 Jul 2006 19:19:58 +0100, Doctor Drivel wrote:

Take a tip from a pro.

Ah, referring to your time blowing sailors at the docks, again.

Mmm. I don't get to see drivels posts because the temptation to amuse
oneself answering him wastes so much time, so he got killfiled..

To the OP. I think whatever else the assembled masses here may disagree
on, they agree on one thing. Anything Drivel says can be safely ignored.

So says the snotty uni amateur. This man has no shame whatsoever.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
To the OP. I think whatever else the assembled masses here may
disagree on, they agree on one thing. Anything Drivel says can be safely
ignored.

It's sad

It is sad. They should be taking him to the coast today wearing his
loafers.