[Apologies for cross-posting to uk.d-i-y but I was advised that there's
a wealth of
good people there even though this is an Audio question]

Our local junior ice hockey club wants to announce various messages to
the gathering masses (all three of them at most games!).
I've already plumbed my old laptop in to the Public Address system so
we can play appropriate music at the game stoppages.

So now my idea is to get a wireless radio microphone of some reasonable
quality to feed in to the microphone input of the laptop and thence on
out the headphone socket and through the PA (we need wireless because
the timekeeper's bench and the DJ area are some 50metres apart).
Plumbing through the laptop to use its mixing capabilities.

A cheap (£12) radio microphone off Ebay is no use. I've even wired up
a quarter-inch jack socket to a 3.5mm jack plug the proper way but it's
still no use.
(The "proper way" is to ignore the middle ring power connection on the
stereo 3.5mm
jack for the electret microphones commonly used with laptops. I've done
some research here, but am willing to admit my fallibility).

I'm looking for advice:
Anyone done this before?
What impedance microphone should I look for?
Any good sources for the kit?

The club have a budget up to (I guess) £100 but cannot afford much
more for anything
sophisticated.

Any help appreciated; thanks in advance

Mungo

"Mungo" wrote in message
oups.com...
[Apologies for cross-posting to uk.d-i-y but I was advised that there's
a wealth of
good people there even though this is an Audio question]

Our local junior ice hockey club wants to announce various messages to
the gathering masses (all three of them at most games!).
I've already plumbed my old laptop in to the Public Address system so
we can play appropriate music at the game stoppages.

So now my idea is to get a wireless radio microphone of some reasonable
quality to feed in to the microphone input of the laptop and thence on
out the headphone socket and through the PA (we need wireless because
the timekeeper's bench and the DJ area are some 50metres apart).
Plumbing through the laptop to use its mixing capabilities.

A cheap (£12) radio microphone off Ebay is no use. I've even wired up
a quarter-inch jack socket to a 3.5mm jack plug the proper way but it's
still no use.
(The "proper way" is to ignore the middle ring power connection on the
stereo 3.5mm
jack for the electret microphones commonly used with laptops. I've done
some research here, but am willing to admit my fallibility).

I'm looking for advice:
Anyone done this before?
What impedance microphone should I look for?
Any good sources for the kit?

The club have a budget up to (I guess) £100 but cannot afford much
more for anything
sophisticated.

Any help appreciated; thanks in advance

Mungo

Sadly, the cheaper wireless microphone systems I've looked at offer a range
smaller than you seem to need, typically 30m, maximum 50m.

Secondly, the cheaper systems don't provide diversity receivers, which means
that you can get considerable fading as the microphone is moved. Thirdly,
the cheaper systems operate on fixed frequencies, and you may find that the
frequency you are on is already occupied by something else. The better
systems offer greater range, selectable channel frequencies and diversity
reception, all of which I would suggest you need in your circumstances, but
they cost nearer £ 200. Maplin has a system for £180.

What didn't work with your existing set-up? It may be possible to fix that.

S.

On 3 May 2006 05:06:00 -0700, "Mungo" wrote:

[Apologies for cross-posting to uk.d-i-y but I was advised that there's
a wealth of
good people there even though this is an Audio question]

Our local junior ice hockey club wants to announce various messages to
the gathering masses (all three of them at most games!).
I've already plumbed my old laptop in to the Public Address system so
we can play appropriate music at the game stoppages.

So now my idea is to get a wireless radio microphone of some reasonable
quality to feed in to the microphone input of the laptop and thence on
out the headphone socket and through the PA (we need wireless because
the timekeeper's bench and the DJ area are some 50metres apart).
Plumbing through the laptop to use its mixing capabilities.

Don't mix through the laptop. Buy a little Behringer mixer and use
that. The price is so low it's a no-brainer.

On Wed, 3 May 2006 13:30:30 +0100, Serge Auckland wrote:

So now my idea is to get a wireless radio microphone of some reasonable
quality to feed in to the microphone input of the laptop and thence on
out the headphone socket and through the PA (we need wireless because
the timekeeper's bench and the DJ area are some 50metres apart).
Plumbing through the laptop to use its mixing capabilities.

Well, you could use a new Bluetooth dongle that supports high quality
headphones. This will also give you the ability to input audio from the
headphone microphone on a high quality audio headset.

I'm using a Motorola headphone for a similar application. If you're using a
PC then the headset simply shows up as yet another audio input device and
you can simply select "Bluetooth Audio" as the input source.

If you *don't* want to use a headset, there are Bluetooth boxes which take
input via 3.5mm jack and route it over Bluetooth. The only problem with the
ones I've seen is that they are line level input, not intended for use with
microphones.

On Wed, 03 May 2006 14:06:45 +0100, Laurence Payne wrote:

Don't mix through the laptop. Buy a little Behringer mixer and use
that. The price is so low it's a no-brainer.

Agreed, trying to do this with a PC isn't all the sensible, let alone a
laptop. By all means still use it as a source for the music but a cheap
CD player may well be more reliable and almost anybody can operate a CD
player. What happens if you can't make a match, are you going to lend
your laptop to someone? If you do will they be able to use it and get it
working if it misbehaves?

As for a cable, yes reliable if the cable route doesn't cross an entrance
onto the ice unprotected and no problem of 50m provided it is balanced.
Think of the FX mics around a football pitch, probably on the end of
several hundred metres of cable by the time it gets to the OB truck
ouside the ground. I suspect the mic is required at both places and radio
does give you the freedom to wander from Sin Bin to Sin Bin, into the
punters, out onto the ice for presentations etc. Draging a cable with
even half a dozen people in the way is a PITA not to mention unsafe.

What to look for in a radio mic is true diversity reception, decent
battery life, and power output (but watch for marketing hype). I'm not
sure if any of the "licence free" ones will have more than one frequency
available. Make it a condition of sale that if it turns out that the
church down next door also uses the same frequency that you can return it
for a full refund.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

In article .com,
Mungo wrote:
The club have a budget up to (I guess) £100 but cannot afford much more
for anything sophisticated.

I've had a few replies from my colleagues in the business, and the general
consensus is you'll have to have a fund raising event. About 350 is nearer
the mark for something reliable and reasonably bomb proof.

It's not a matter of sophistication but merely performance.

--
*I can see your point, but I still think you're full of ****.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wed, 03 May 2006 16:43:18 +0100 (BST), Dave Liquorice wrote:

What to look for in a radio mic is true diversity reception, decent
battery life, and power output (but watch for marketing hype). I'm not
sure if any of the "licence free" ones will have more than one frequency
available. Make it a condition of sale that if it turns out that the
church down next door also uses the same frequency that you can return it
for a full refund.

Alternatively, use Bluetooth, get 100m range, and you don't have to worry.

On Wed, 03 May 2006 16:43:18 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

Think of the FX mics around a football pitch, probably on the end of
several hundred metres of cable by the time it gets to the OB truck

Radio mics, surely? Just as it's a long time since I saw the roving
interviewer and his camera dragging a cable behind him? Maybe
things are less developed in America :-)

In article ,
Laurence Payne lpayneNOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote:
Think of the FX mics around a football pitch, probably on the end of
several hundred metres of cable by the time it gets to the OB truck

Radio mics, surely? Just as it's a long time since I saw the roving
interviewer and his camera dragging a cable behind him? Maybe
things are less developed in America :-)

No - fx mics will usually be cabled. Remember many if not most football
grounds in the UK have at least some broadcasting cabling installed
permanently. As do racecourses.

If an FX mic has to be suspended above spectators it would need a rope etc
if a radio, so why not just use a cabled mic for this purpose?

Most sensible sound men only use radios when necessary. ;-)

--
*Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wed, 03 May 2006 21:09:08 +0100, Laurence Payne wrote:

Think of the FX mics around a football pitch, probably on the end of
several hundred metres of cable by the time it gets to the OB truck

Radio mics, surely?

No, a football pitch (UK meaning) normally has 12 FX mics placed around
it. Getting 12 radio mics to work together without interference is not
that simple. It can be done but the effort required means it is only done
when it has to be. Getting reliable coverage from the perimeter of a
football might be an issue as well, the are mics low down possibly close
and behind metal advertising boards. Then there is the cost, you'd be
looking at doubling or, much more likely, tripling the capital cost. Oh
sound quality, top end radio mics are very good these days but they still
can't handle large dynamic ranges very well. Football crowds and stadium
PAs have a fairly huge dynamic range. I can't see any real gain over
using cables.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

Firstly, many thanks to all the kind people who responded - I now have
enough ammunition
to confront the club with some suggestions and take it forward from
there.
I still reserve the right to come back with more questions (please).

Mungo

Owain wrote:


I've already plumbed my old laptop in to the Public Address system
so we can play appropriate music at the game stoppages.

For which you or the venue will require appropriate licences for
performing rights and mechanical copyright.


With respect to Owain for his kind help, and risking invocation of his
wrath,
I didn't raise the issue of "appropriate licences" and I take some
umbrage
at the insinuation that we are doing anything illegal.
I'm sure Owain meant well, but you know which road is paved with good
intentions! :-)

For anyone that wants to share in the program (its a Java program, no
music
supplied) then please wander over to
http://www.mungoh.f2s.com/HockeyMusic/index.htm
and fight Java to get the damn thing working!

Regards

Mungo

On Wed, 03 May 2006 23:57:43 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

No - fx mics will usually be cabled. Remember many if not most football
grounds in the UK have at least some broadcasting cabling installed
permanently.

Premiership grounds but not many others do. At the smaller grounds even
BT has to put in some Dropwire No.10 for the DELs...

I don't count COOBE/ISDN for local radio coverage a "broadcast cabling",
I'm thing of multies, triax, BT fibre etc.

As do racecourses.

Yes, mostly part of Racetech. Drive up, drag a loom out plug it in, power
up and there you have the standard facilties for the betting coverage and
"officals" (Can't remember what you call 'em at racecourses, not umpires,
judges...). Haven't done the GeeGees for ages since the BBC lost most of
the meetings to channel 4.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On Wed, 3 May 2006 19:40:00 +0100, Steve Firth wrote:

Alternatively, use Bluetooth, get 100m range, and you don't have to
worry.

I'm not aware of any Bluetooth devices that offer a full bandwidth audio
link. Any delays due to digital processing might be a issue as well,
partly for the commentator/presentor trying to talk against himself
coming out of the PA delayed but also "interesting" feedback effects. Ice
Hockey is NOISEY the PA will be cranked up...

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On Sat, 06 May 2006 23:03:46 +0100 (BST), Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Wed, 3 May 2006 19:40:00 +0100, Steve Firth wrote:

Alternatively, use Bluetooth, get 100m range, and you don't have to
worry.

I'm not aware of any Bluetooth devices that offer a full bandwidth audio
link.

Oh, I'm sorry to hear about your ignorance.

Any delays due to digital processing might be a issue as well,
partly for the commentator/presentor trying to talk against himself
coming out of the PA delayed but also "interesting" feedback effects. Ice
Hockey is NOISEY the PA will be cranked up...

And Bluetooth sets are available with noise cancelling microphones, and if
they are time-shifted feedback is hardly likely to be a problem. But I
suspect you exaggerate for comic effect.

On Sun, 21 May 2006 23:01:29 +0100, Steve Firth wrote:

Alternatively, use Bluetooth, get 100m range, and you don't have to
worry.

I'm not aware of any Bluetooth devices that offer a full bandwidth
audio link.

Oh, I'm sorry to hear about your ignorance.

Always willing to learn, care to enlighten me?

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

In article om,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
I'm not aware of any Bluetooth devices that offer a full bandwidth
audio link.

Oh, I'm sorry to hear about your ignorance.

Always willing to learn, care to enlighten me?

Yes. I've not seen a sudden proliferation of Bluetooth radio mics...

--
*When the going gets tough, use duct tape

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 22 May 2006 08:23:24 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article om,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
I'm not aware of any Bluetooth devices that offer a full bandwidth
audio link.

Oh, I'm sorry to hear about your ignorance.

Always willing to learn, care to enlighten me?

http://www.bluetooth.com/NR/rdonlyre...2DPspecv10.pdf

Yes. I've not seen a sudden proliferation of Bluetooth radio mics...

Why should you need a Bluetooth radio microphone? It's simple to connect
any microphone through one of these devices.

http://www.iocombo.com/product/showp...productid=0EHK
http://www.xterasys.com/bsm202.htm
http://www.frontierpc.com/ProductDet...ctID=950018722
http://www.gogocity.com/product_deta...f_id=CO94XB202

And you may recall that since the initial question was about microphone and
headset that I suggested using a Bluetooth headset with a built in
microphone.

http://www.pocketnow.com/index.php?a...reviews&id=756
http://www.iogear.com/main.php?loc=product&Item=GBMH201

I would suspect that this device is more up your particular street and TBH
I'm bloody surprised you never heard about it (or similar).

http://www.youcom.nl/products/report...les/parrot.pdf

You owe me £500+VAT BTW for professional consultancy.

In article ,
Steve Firth wrote:
I would suspect that this device is more up your particular street and
TBH I'm bloody surprised you never heard about it (or similar).

http://www.youcom.nl/products/report...les/parrot.pdf

You owe me £500+VAT BTW for professional consultancy.

The world is full of such things - but I don't use them. ;-)

BTW there's a world of difference between domestic and pro solutions. Most
Bluetooth gear and headsets etc would be but a pile of broken plastic
after the first use...

--
*A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 22 May 2006 18:25:15 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Steve Firth wrote:
I would suspect that this device is more up your particular street and
TBH I'm bloody surprised you never heard about it (or similar).

http://www.youcom.nl/products/report...les/parrot.pdf

You owe me £500+VAT BTW for professional consultancy.

The world is full of such things - but I don't use them. ;-)

BTW there's a world of difference between domestic and pro solutions. Most
Bluetooth gear and headsets etc would be but a pile of broken plastic
after the first use...

Yes of course after all a pair of Motorola HT820s have such an inferior
build quality compared to DT100s oh hang on no they don't, and there's no
cord to snag and chafe either.