Hi,

One of my semi basement flats is subject to flooding when we have heavy
rain. It seems that the water table rises and the water pressure forces
it into the flat in one corner.

About 3 years ago, we dug a sump outside the flat, (outdoors), and put
an electric sump pump in it. This worked fine for 3 years, then we had
another flood - the pump had failed.

We've fitted a new pump, but I would like to fit a battery backup to
cope with possible future failures, which could include power.

I can find a few in the US, but none in the UK - I've been Googling for
about 3 hours.

(Whenever my other half tells me she cant find something after hours of
Googling, I usually put a few search terms in and find what she is
looking for - so forgive me if that happens here).

Regds
--
Richard Faulkner

Richard Faulkner wrote:
Hi,

One of my semi basement flats is subject to flooding when we have heavy
rain. It seems that the water table rises and the water pressure forces
it into the flat in one corner.

About 3 years ago, we dug a sump outside the flat, (outdoors), and put
an electric sump pump in it. This worked fine for 3 years, then we had
another flood - the pump had failed.

We've fitted a new pump, but I would like to fit a battery backup to
cope with possible future failures, which could include power.

I can find a few in the US, but none in the UK - I've been Googling for
about 3 hours.

(Whenever my other half tells me she cant find something after hours of
Googling, I usually put a few search terms in and find what she is
looking for - so forgive me if that happens here).

Regds


theyre called UPSes. But they dont address the mechanical pump failure
mode.

NT

On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 18:55:39 +0000, Richard Faulkner wrote:

Hi,

One of my semi basement flats is subject to flooding when we have heavy
rain. It seems that the water table rises and the water pressure forces
it into the flat in one corner.

About 3 years ago, we dug a sump outside the flat, (outdoors), and put
an electric sump pump in it. This worked fine for 3 years, then we had
another flood - the pump had failed.

We've fitted a new pump, but I would like to fit a battery backup to
cope with possible future failures, which could include power.

I can find a few in the US, but none in the UK - I've been Googling for
about 3 hours.

(Whenever my other half tells me she cant find something after hours of
Googling, I usually put a few search terms in and find what she is
looking for - so forgive me if that happens here).

What rating is this pump?
I take it that the pump's power supply failed before/at the critical
moment?
Why wouldn't an off the shelf UPS of sufficient rating not work for you?


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

Richard Faulkner wrote:

One of my semi basement flats is subject to flooding when we have heavy
rain. It seems that the water table rises and the water pressure forces
it into the flat in one corner.

About 3 years ago, we dug a sump outside the flat, (outdoors), and put
an electric sump pump in it. This worked fine for 3 years, then we had
another flood - the pump had failed.

We've fitted a new pump, but I would like to fit a battery backup to
cope with possible future failures, which could include power.

I think you need to consider a couple of points:

- What pumping rate is required?
- Do you need the pump to auto-start?

If you need a high pumping rate, then a petrol pump such as:

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/product...1&r=2159&g=122

makes sense (and is really your only option unless you have a big bank
of batteries. However, this won't auto-start.

If you only need a modest rate of pumping, then a boat bilge pump would
be perfect, such as:

http://tinyurl.com/znfyb


--
Grunff

"Richard Faulkner" wrote in message
news
Hi,

One of my semi basement flats is subject to flooding when we have
heavy
rain. It seems that the water table rises and the water pressure
forces
it into the flat in one corner.

About 3 years ago, we dug a sump outside the flat, (outdoors), and
put
an electric sump pump in it. This worked fine for 3 years, then we
had
another flood - the pump had failed.

We've fitted a new pump, but I would like to fit a battery backup to
cope with possible future failures, which could include power.

I can find a few in the US, but none in the UK - I've been Googling
for
about 3 hours.

(Whenever my other half tells me she cant find something after hours
of
Googling, I usually put a few search terms in and find what she is
looking for - so forgive me if that happens here).

Regds
--
Richard Faulkner

Richard,

When we had to have a sump pump some years back at a previous house, I
fitted a counter to show me how often it was going. This let me keep a
check on functionality -- no increment = no pump !! (or drought G)

A few counters here http://tinyurl.com/edqye (ok there mine I confess
GGG

AWEM

AWEM

In message .uk, Ed
Sirett writes
On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 18:55:39 +0000, Richard Faulkner wrote:

Hi,

One of my semi basement flats is subject to flooding when we have heavy
rain. It seems that the water table rises and the water pressure forces
it into the flat in one corner.

About 3 years ago, we dug a sump outside the flat, (outdoors), and put
an electric sump pump in it. This worked fine for 3 years, then we had
another flood - the pump had failed.

We've fitted a new pump, but I would like to fit a battery backup to
cope with possible future failures, which could include power.

I can find a few in the US, but none in the UK - I've been Googling for
about 3 hours.

(Whenever my other half tells me she cant find something after hours of
Googling, I usually put a few search terms in and find what she is
looking for - so forgive me if that happens here).

What rating is this pump?
I take it that the pump's power supply failed before/at the critical
moment?

No idea.

Why wouldn't an off the shelf UPS of sufficient rating not work for you?



We've put an off the shelf unit in, and I was considering putting in a
second off the shelf mains powered, a bit higher than the first. This is
on the basis that they are both unlikely to fail at the same time, and
the second one shouldnt be used much, or at all, while the first is
functional.

However, as you dig deeper into these things, you realise that there is
always the possibility of mains failure, hence battery backup.

They obviously have more experience of basement living, and flooding, in
the US, as there are a few suppliers - Hydrostat and Wayne, but they are
120V AC to 12V DC systems.

Regds

--
Richard Faulkner

In message .com,
writes
Richard Faulkner wrote:
Hi,

One of my semi basement flats is subject to flooding when we have heavy
rain. It seems that the water table rises and the water pressure forces
it into the flat in one corner.

About 3 years ago, we dug a sump outside the flat, (outdoors), and put
an electric sump pump in it. This worked fine for 3 years, then we had
another flood - the pump had failed.

We've fitted a new pump, but I would like to fit a battery backup to
cope with possible future failures, which could include power.

I can find a few in the US, but none in the UK - I've been Googling for
about 3 hours.

(Whenever my other half tells me she cant find something after hours of
Googling, I usually put a few search terms in and find what she is
looking for - so forgive me if that happens here).

Regds


theyre called UPSes. But they dont address the mechanical pump failure
mode.

NT


I would propose 2 pumps, one higher than the other. Hopefully, 2
mechanical failures wouldnt happen at the same time g

--
Richard Faulkner

In message , Grunff
writes
Richard Faulkner wrote:

One of my semi basement flats is subject to flooding when we have
heavy rain. It seems that the water table rises and the water
pressure forces it into the flat in one corner.
About 3 years ago, we dug a sump outside the flat, (outdoors), and
put an electric sump pump in it. This worked fine for 3 years, then we
had another flood - the pump had failed.
We've fitted a new pump, but I would like to fit a battery backup to
cope with possible future failures, which could include power.

I think you need to consider a couple of points:

- What pumping rate is required?
- Do you need the pump to auto-start?

If you need a high pumping rate, then a petrol pump such as:

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/product...1&r=2159&g=122

makes sense (and is really your only option unless you have a big bank
of batteries. However, this won't auto-start.

If you only need a modest rate of pumping, then a boat bilge pump would
be perfect, such as:

http://tinyurl.com/znfyb



Might do the trick - bilge pump connected to marine battery, permanently
connected to sophisticated battery charger, (not sure what it needs to
be, but it needs to stop charging when the battery is full).

--
Richard Faulkner

Richard Faulkner wrote:

Might do the trick - bilge pump connected to marine battery, permanently
connected to sophisticated battery charger, (not sure what it needs to
be, but it needs to stop charging when the battery is full).

That'll be one of these:

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?... ger&doy=23m3

--
Grunff

Richard Faulkner wrote:

They obviously have more experience of basement living, and flooding, in
the US, as there are a few suppliers - Hydrostat and Wayne, but they are
120V AC to 12V DC systems.

Regds

no problem, just put a 240 to 120 convertor in front, then the ups,
then a 12v to 24v rotary convertor, then the pumps... and wonder why
the whole lot is drawing 1kW for a 100w pump.

I think your idea of 2 pumps is good, as long as you do a maintenance
check on them every so often. Otherwise they'll both be dead sooner or
later.

A ups with some self testing/warning would be good. None of that kit
will have very long life, pump nor ups.


NT

In message , Grunff
writes
Richard Faulkner wrote:

Might do the trick - bilge pump connected to marine battery,
permanently connected to sophisticated battery charger, (not sure
what it needs to be, but it needs to stop charging when the battery
is full).

That'll be one of these:

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?...a=trickle%20ch
arger&doy=23m3


I was thinking of something like a 130Ah marine battery, (or certainly
60 -70Ah).

Any ideas - is trickle charging OK if the battery isnt being used at all
for most of the time?

--
Richard Faulkner

Richard Faulkner wrote:
In message .com,
writes

Richard Faulkner wrote:

We've fitted a new pump, but I would like to fit a battery backup to
cope with possible future failures, which could include power.

Is it really worthwhile though - I mean, consider how often you are
likely to have a power cut (in presumably an urban area?), then add in
the likelihood of the rain being bad enough at the same time, for long
enough, to cause a flood?

I would propose 2 pumps, one higher than the other. Hopefully, 2
mechanical failures wouldnt happen at the same time g

Sounds a sensible idea. Ideally, wouldn't you also want some way of
easily identifying that pump A had failed (and required sorting) and
that the backup B was now doing the job?

David

"Lobster" wrote in message
...

Sounds a sensible idea. Ideally, wouldn't you also want some way of
easily identifying that pump A had failed (and required sorting) and that
the backup B was now doing the job?

That's easy.. just put an egg cup (or similar) so it fills just before pump
two switches on.
If there is water in it then pump one has failed.

Richard Faulkner wrote:

I was thinking of something like a 130Ah marine battery, (or certainly
60 -70Ah).

Oops, I didn't spot the 9Ah limit on that charger. You can get similar
chargers for higher capacity batteries.


Any ideas - is trickle charging OK if the battery isnt being used at all
for most of the time?

Yes, the battery will be fine, but will have a standby life of 2-3
years. You'll need to budget on replacing it at that kind of interval.


--
Grunff

On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 18:55:39 +0000, Richard Faulkner
wrote:

Hi,

One of my semi basement flats is subject to flooding when we have heavy
rain. It seems that the water table rises and the water pressure forces
it into the flat in one corner.

About 3 years ago, we dug a sump outside the flat, (outdoors), and put
an electric sump pump in it. This worked fine for 3 years, then we had
another flood - the pump had failed.

We've fitted a new pump, but I would like to fit a battery backup to
cope with possible future failures, which could include power.

I can find a few in the US, but none in the UK - I've been Googling for
about 3 hours.

(Whenever my other half tells me she cant find something after hours of
Googling, I usually put a few search terms in and find what she is
looking for - so forgive me if that happens here).

How about a 12v bilge pump, as used on boats?

I'm sure that you can buy 'em with float valves in so that they only
trigger in the prescence of water.

All you'd need do is rig up some sort of trickle charger to keep the
battery topped up.

sponix

On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 10:42:31 GMT, (Sponix) wrote:

How about a 12v bilge pump, as used on boats?

Something like this, but with a water sensor/float valve/whatever:
http://www.chandlery.net/products/012101.html

sponix

More pumps 'n' float switches he

http://marinestore.co.uk/page/mrst/C...e-pumps-bilge/

On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 18:55:39 +0000, Richard Faulkner
wrote:

Hi,

One of my semi basement flats is subject to flooding when we have heavy
rain. It seems that the water table rises and the water pressure forces
it into the flat in one corner.

About 3 years ago, we dug a sump outside the flat, (outdoors), and put
an electric sump pump in it. This worked fine for 3 years, then we had
another flood - the pump had failed.

We've fitted a new pump, but I would like to fit a battery backup to
cope with possible future failures, which could include power.

I can find a few in the US, but none in the UK - I've been Googling for
about 3 hours.

(Whenever my other half tells me she cant find something after hours of
Googling, I usually put a few search terms in and find what she is
looking for - so forgive me if that happens here).

How did the first pump fail, is the water clean or dirty?

Also how many litres/min do you need?

cheers,
Pete.