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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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Home Information Packs good or bad?
Home information packs are going to be mandatory in the UK in June
2007. They are intended to make the home-buying and selling process more transparent, faster and consumer friendly. The packs will include a home condition and energy efficiency report. The Government have argued that HIPs will: · Enable buyers and sellers to negotiate from an informed position; · Increase openness and transparency, helping to make the process less adversarial and stressful; · Help the parties commit more quickly to the transaction, shortening the period of uncertainty between acceptance of an offer and contract exchange; · Increase certainty by avoiding unwelcome surprises which may otherwise cause renegotiation and transaction failures after terms have been agreed; · Reduce wasted costs resulting from high rates of failed transactions; · Help shorten the overall transaction timescale. However, it means that if you want to sell your house you will have to pay for a pack up front £700 - £1000 and some to the elements will have to be renewed every 3 months. What happens if you don't sell, what happens if you the survey is inaccurate and you don't agree with it, what's to stop the buyer simply dropping their offer at a later date any way just because they think they can? I'm just not sure that this system isn't just creating jobs for the boys and loads of additional expense for the seller. If any one out there sees it differently or can allay my fears let me know. Any thoughts? |
#2
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Home Information Packs good or bad?
On 3 Mar 2006 14:16:08 -0800, "
wrote: Home information packs are going to be mandatory in the UK in June 2007. They are intended to make the home-buying and selling process more transparent, faster and consumer friendly. The packs will include a home condition and energy efficiency report. The Government have argued that HIPs will: · Enable buyers and sellers to negotiate from an informed position; · Increase openness and transparency, helping to make the process less adversarial and stressful; · Help the parties commit more quickly to the transaction, shortening the period of uncertainty between acceptance of an offer and contract exchange; · Increase certainty by avoiding unwelcome surprises which may otherwise cause renegotiation and transaction failures after terms have been agreed; · Reduce wasted costs resulting from high rates of failed transactions; · Help shorten the overall transaction timescale. However, it means that if you want to sell your house you will have to pay for a pack up front £700 - £1000 and some to the elements will have to be renewed every 3 months. What happens if you don't sell, what happens if you the survey is inaccurate and you don't agree with it, what's to stop the buyer simply dropping their offer at a later date any way just because they think they can? I'm just not sure that this system isn't just creating jobs for the boys and loads of additional expense for the seller. If any one out there sees it differently or can allay my fears let me know. Any thoughts? Your last comment is quite correct. It's jobs for the boys, jobs for the unemployable and jobs for the jobsworths to run it all. It's bad for two reasons that immediately spring to mind: - Government interference in a private transaction between individuals. - Pack is paid for by vendor. This is fundamentally unsound as a business practice from the buyer's perspective. As a buyer, I would want to commission my own survey and evaluation of the property anyway. If there is something wrong with the property that I feel should reduce the price, then I ask the vendor to do so, negotiate or walk away. It's really not difficult and doesn't need the intervention of the nanny state. -- ..andy |
#3
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Home Information Packs good or bad?
"Andy Hall" aka Matt wrote in message news - Government interference in a private transaction between individuals. Matt, you are a pervo. |
#4
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Home Information Packs good or bad?
On Sat, 4 Mar 2006 01:28:35 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote: "Andy Hall" aka Matt wrote in message news - Government interference in a private transaction between individuals. Matt, you are a pervo. Interesting comment from one who carries out "transactions" with himself.... -- ..andy |
#5
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Home Information Packs good or bad?
"Andy Hall" akak Matt wrote in message ... On Sat, 4 Mar 2006 01:28:35 -0000, "Doctor Drivel" wrote: "Andy Hall" aka Matt wrote in message news - Government interference in a private transaction between individuals. Matt, you are a pervo. Interesting comment from one who carries out "transactions" with himself.... Matt/Lord Hall, you are still a pervo. |
#6
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Home Information Packs good or bad?
On Sat, 4 Mar 2006 10:36:26 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote: "Andy Hall" akak Matt wrote in message .. . On Sat, 4 Mar 2006 01:28:35 -0000, "Doctor Drivel" wrote: "Andy Hall" aka Matt wrote in message news - Government interference in a private transaction between individuals. Matt, you are a pervo. Interesting comment from one who carries out "transactions" with himself.... Matt/Lord Hall, you are still a pervo. So have you confused yourself now and can't remember which name you applied to which person? Try to stick to doing one thing at a time. It's best for you. -- ..andy |
#7
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Home Information Packs good or bad?
But would a survey either buyer or seller got in addition to the
official Home Info Pack carry any weight anymore? Wouldn't it mean that once an offer had been put in that that was it, as all the (admissable) information would be on the table at the beginning. So the price agreed at the beginning was the one it had been agreed the property was worth. |
#9
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Home Information Packs good or bad?
John Rumm wrote:
wrote: The Government have argued that HIPs will: · Enable buyers and sellers to negotiate from an informed position; Only works if the buyers (and their lenders) trust the information in the pack. Many lenders have stated that they will not. the survey information is sold to the seller, not the buyer, and this creates an unsatisfactory business/legal situation between surveyor and buyer. · Increase openness and transparency, helping to make the process less adversarial and stressful; how is having to find another grand when youre so broke you have to sell going to reduce stress?? While I dont want to state the damn obvious, but it seems its needed he are people in financial trouble now going to unable to sell legally? Raising another thousand pre-sale is out of the question for many in such a situation. Perhaps there will be new schemes where company A pays for the survey then takes 2 grand from the sale price later - people will be even more badly stung than now. Reduce stress my arse. How does one more thing to organise and pay through the nose for reduce stress anyway? Increase the chances of deception in reality. definetely. The surveyor is not answerable to the buyer, works in the seller's interest now, and the seller can cherry pick the survey, as you say further down. Also since some surveyors just want to maximise business, they will offer what the client wants, as good a survey as they can possibly think of any excuse to give. We all know about plausible denial. Its a fundamentally unsound system. Most houses today are sold without any survey beyond a basic valuation. When every sale is subject to survey, the skill level of the surveyors will inevitably drop dramatically, as the present cherry picking of students will no longer be an option. Surveys are patchy enough already, under the new system theyll be a shambles. · Help the parties commit more quickly to the transaction, shortening the period of uncertainty between acceptance of an offer and contract exchange; with a dodgy survey the uncertainty is still there. When the buyer commissions a survey and the 2 conflict, the uncertainty will be more not less, and go on much longer. It will improve knowledge level for those currently buying wtih no survey, but those people are choosing, as adults exercising their own free will, to not pay for the survey. Clearly the majoprity of the population does not believe the survey cost to be money well spent. Is a nanny government forcing them to spend more money (the survey cost will just be added to the sale price) at the very time they are least able to spend on extras, and when they very clearlty dont want to spend, a good thing? Why really does the govt want to force every citizen to pay a closed shop several times per life for a product they dont even want to buy? Is this a recurring theme of this govt? Do you want your money, choices and freedoms taken away piece by piece? I sure dont. What puzzles me is why the British public seem so unaware of the game being played. In the US these concepts are part of basic education for all. It might speed up some of the conveyancing tasks. The survey / financial parts of the transaction seem unlikely to be helped much though. each buyer survey that conflicts with the seller survey will greatly slow and complicate matters. And for reasons above these will become common. · Increase certainty by avoiding unwelcome surprises which may otherwise cause renegotiation and transaction failures after terms have been agreed; Until contracts are exchanged renegotiation is still going to happen though. yes, present negotiations are mostly just excuses to make a lower offer, not genuine reasons. This practice will contiue anyway, just different excuses will be needed, such as 'my lender has now said we can only have...' 'but we realised...' Same game will continue. · Reduce wasted costs resulting from high rates of failed transactions; Increase waste by adding extra surveys (one for the pack, another the buyers/lenders trust!) and a 3rd after the first 2 conflict · Help shorten the overall transaction timescale. Given the success of govt. legislation achieving its stated aims (i.e. it more typically achieves the exact opposite) that ought to be worrying! surveyors will be in short supply, waiting times will be long. a buyer survey will still be wanted in some cases as before when the 2 surveys conflict, it will take ages to sort out. quick no-survey transactions will no longer be possible. However, it means that if you want to sell your house you will have to pay for a pack up front £700 - £1000 and some to the elements will have to be renewed every 3 months. What happens if you don't sell, what Then the exercise just cost you a grand. happens if you the survey is inaccurate and you don't agree with it, Complain to the surveyor, or more likely get another one. This will be a real problem in a lot of cases. Builders and surveyors looking at housing types theyre not familiar with do reach the wrong conclusions some of the time. A well known goof is the assumption that all Victorian houses have non-cavity walls. What happens when seller and surveyor dont agree on basic facts, or when seller thinks the survey complete tosh? Now they just shrug and wait for the next buyer, but with the new system there will be a real problem there. I'm just not sure that this system isn't just creating jobs for the boys and loads of additional expense for the seller. If any one out there sees it differently or can allay my fears let me know. of course. Neither buyers nor sellers want it (most are not paying for surveys now). Government will get another revenue stream from it though, which will be extracted from us with legal punishment for anyone who refuses to pay. Sounds more like extortion than acting in the interests of the citizens. NT |
#10
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Home Information Packs good or bad?
On 4 Mar 2006 07:44:32 -0800 wrote :
how is having to find another grand when youre so broke you have to sell going to reduce stress?? While I dont want to state the damn obvious, but it seems its needed he are people in financial trouble now going to unable to sell legally? Raising another thousand pre-sale is out of the question for many in such a situation. At least one of the firms that will be offering HIPs has said that they will provide 6 months (or time taken to sell if shorter) interest free credit. If you need the money quickly the discipline of having to get all the docs together before you market the property is not going to do you any harm and should help ensure a quick sale once an offer is accepted and made. Personally I think the concept a good one at the lower end of the market where most buyers currently don't get any survey and just rely on the BS valuation. -- Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm [Latest version QSEDBUK 1.12 released 8 Dec 2005] |
#11
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Home Information Packs good or bad?
On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 17:15:19 GMT, Tony Bryer
wrote: On 4 Mar 2006 07:44:32 -0800 wrote : how is having to find another grand when youre so broke you have to sell going to reduce stress?? While I dont want to state the damn obvious, but it seems its needed he are people in financial trouble now going to unable to sell legally? Raising another thousand pre-sale is out of the question for many in such a situation. At least one of the firms that will be offering HIPs has said that they will provide 6 months (or time taken to sell if shorter) interest free credit. If you need the money quickly the discipline of having to get all the docs together before you market the property is not going to do you any harm and should help ensure a quick sale once an offer is accepted and made. Personally I think the concept a good one at the lower end of the market where most buyers currently don't get any survey and just rely on the BS valuation. How such a condition can be legally imposed on the seller, yet be optional in terms of acceptance for those in the industry who's excessive profits might be limited by such acceptance, is representative of the current injustices in law making. -- Regards, Mike Halmarack Drop the EGG to email me. |
#12
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Home Information Packs good or bad?
The only people it will seem to benefit are the firms set up to manage
the accreditation, and sell the training. It is being promoted as a means for unqualified people to do some training pay licence fee and then to become a "surveyor". It takes much more training and experience than that to be able to conduct a building survey - well an meaningful building survey to be more precise. From what I have seen, the reports will be no better than the current 'Hombuyers Survey and Valuation' - a tick list. The buyers will think that a comprehensive survey has been done, and may well be in for a shock after the purchase. But at least they will get to know the properties energy rating. dg |
#13
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Home Information Packs good or bad?
On 4 Mar 2006 14:14:09 -0800, "dg" wrote:
The only people it will seem to benefit are the firms set up to manage the accreditation, and sell the training. It is being promoted as a means for unqualified people to do some training pay licence fee and then to become a "surveyor". It takes much more training and experience than that to be able to conduct a building survey - well an meaningful building survey to be more precise. From what I have seen, the reports will be no better than the current 'Hombuyers Survey and Valuation' - a tick list. The buyers will think that a comprehensive survey has been done, and may well be in for a shock after the purchase. But at least they will get to know the properties energy rating. dg That assumes that they can measure. -- ..andy |
#14
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Home Information Packs good or bad?
Andy Hall wrote:
On 4 Mar 2006 14:14:09 -0800, "dg" wrote: The only people it will seem to benefit are the firms set up to manage the accreditation, and sell the training. It is being promoted as a means for unqualified people to do some training pay licence fee and then to become a "surveyor". It takes much more training and experience than that to be able to conduct a building survey - well an meaningful building survey to be more precise. From what I have seen, the reports will be no better than the current 'Hombuyers Survey and Valuation' - a tick list. The buyers will think that a comprehensive survey has been done, and may well be in for a shock after the purchase. But at least they will get to know the properties energy rating. dg That assumes that they can measure. Thats unfortunately more realistic than it sounds. The very few people that have tried (one was qualified and looked at heating system and building personally) were unable to get the energy consumption of this place right. Or even close. NT |
#16
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Home Information Packs good or bad?
On Sun, 05 Mar 2006 23:01:01 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote: I despair. There are ready reckoners to do that, PC programs. Even doing it by hand only requires the ability to add and multiply using a calculator and looking up of numbers in a book. Primary school arithmetic. First form physics. Or at least it was. Sadly, school curriculum doesn't seem to cover Real Life. All that it covers is the ability to pass "SATS" tests. In reality nowadays the whole school life is wasted as far as RL is concerned - any useful education (possibly) takes place at "further education" places - at further cost to the taxpayer, or to industry (at further cost to the ultimate customer). At primary school I could use a slide-rule (am I showing my age?!) and do simultaneous equations. Apparently even logarithms aren't introduced to schoolchildren nowadays until sixth-form (or whatever it's called) even though such things as decibels are based on them. Even practical skills such as wood and metal work are rarely taught in schools, except perhaps at a very basic level. Haunched stopped mortice and tenon joints were no real problem hrrumph years ago in 3rd year grammar-technical school; nor were drawings in first or third-angle projection. I sincerely believe that taxpayers' money is totally wasted in most "comprehensive" schools. -- Frank Erskine |
#17
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Home Information Packs good or bad?
Andy Hall wrote:
On 5 Mar 2006 13:50:48 -0800, wrote: Andy Hall wrote: On 4 Mar 2006 14:14:09 -0800, "dg" wrote: The only people it will seem to benefit are the firms set up to manage the accreditation, and sell the training. It is being promoted as a means for unqualified people to do some training pay licence fee and then to become a "surveyor". It takes much more training and experience than that to be able to conduct a building survey - well an meaningful building survey to be more precise. From what I have seen, the reports will be no better than the current 'Hombuyers Survey and Valuation' - a tick list. The buyers will think that a comprehensive survey has been done, and may well be in for a shock after the purchase. But at least they will get to know the properties energy rating. dg That assumes that they can measure. Thats unfortunately more realistic than it sounds. The very few people that have tried (one was qualified and looked at heating system and building personally) were unable to get the energy consumption of this place right. Or even close. I despair. There are ready reckoners to do that, PC programs. Even doing it by hand only requires the ability to add and multiply using a calculator and looking up of numbers in a book. Primary school arithmetic. First form physics. Or at least it was. The problem I see over and over is people cant be bothered to get the basic facts right. The last one, who looked at the place personally, could not be bothered to establish the type(s) of building construction, which of course is key to energy consumption figures. Nor could he be bothered to ask how the existing system performed, which would have been a simple check on his errors. He ended up recommending a boiler of about twice the required rating. Unfortunately a ready reckoner would probably not have picked up his mistakes. As for physically measuring, same story here, not bothering, and producing erroneous information and inappropriate recommendations as a result. Imho the British workforce is in a lot of cases rather lazy. Not all of course. NT |
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