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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.finance
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Compulsory water metering
What I don't understand is why this is a news story at all in 2006. My water
company, Thames Water, installed a water meter at my house about 8 years ago. I had no choice in this, which in my view means that compulsory water metering is not exactly new. Strangely enough, on the very same day I got the letter from them telling me I had to have my water metered whether I liked it or not, their Chief Executive was interviewed on BBC Radio 4 about water metering and gave a categorical assurance that no-one would have to have water metering if they didn't want it. I phoned the Chief Executive's office to ask about this apparent inconsistency, and was told that "I was using a very restrictive definition of the word 'no-one'". Perhaps this is the first time the policy has been tested in court, but it's certainly not the first time water metering has been compulsory. Adam PS Apologies if this post appears twice. I think my first attempt to post it vanished into the aether, but I guess it may have just been delayed. |
#2
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.finance
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Compulsory water metering
On Thu, 2 Mar 2006 09:01:10 -0000, "Adam" wrote:
What I don't understand is why this is a news story at all in 2006. My water company, Thames Water, installed a water meter at my house about 8 years ago. And it's worked all that time? Flow meters are not exactly the most reliable of items. Tiddy Ogg. http://www.tiddyogg.co.uk |
#3
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Compulsory water metering
Water meters have been compulsory for new builds for a long time.
"Adam" wrote in message ... | What I don't understand is why this is a news story at all in 2006. My water | company, Thames Water, installed a water meter at my house about 8 years | ago. I had no choice in this, which in my view means that compulsory water | metering is not exactly new. | | Strangely enough, on the very same day I got the letter from them telling me | I had to have my water metered whether I liked it or not, their Chief | Executive was interviewed on BBC Radio 4 about water metering and gave a | categorical assurance that no-one would have to have water metering if they | didn't want it. I phoned the Chief Executive's office to ask about this | apparent inconsistency, and was told that "I was using a very restrictive | definition of the word 'no-one'". | | Perhaps this is the first time the policy has been tested in court, but it's | certainly not the first time water metering has been compulsory. | | Adam | | PS Apologies if this post appears twice. I think my first attempt to post it | vanished into the aether, but I guess it may have just been delayed. | | | |
#4
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.finance
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Compulsory water metering
Tiddy Ogg wrote:
On Thu, 2 Mar 2006 09:01:10 -0000, "Adam" wrote: What I don't understand is why this is a news story at all in 2006. My water company, Thames Water, installed a water meter at my house about 8 years ago. And it's worked all that time? Flow meters are not exactly the most reliable of items. Is that right? The four smallest wheels of my water meter go round OK when someone has a shower, but the ones that measure whole cubic metres don't go round any more. So my usage is zero every time the water company reads it. They don't seem to have noticed. I expect someone will come around and have a look one day. What is going to really confuse them is that the house next door has been removed and has correctly had a zero reading for a year. Now building has started, and I have allowed the builders to use an old outhouse toilet and handbasin on my property, using a water pipe over the fence from their metered supply. The water company are going to assume wrongly that the builder's pipe supplies my whole house, and that's why my reading is zero. I may be able to get away with no water bills for another year (apart from a low supply charge)! |
#5
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.finance
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Compulsory water metering
"The four smallest wheels of my water meter go
round OK when someone has a shower, but the ones that measure whole cubic metres don't go round any more. So my usage is zero every time the water company reads it. They don't seem to have noticed. I expect someone will come around and have a look one day. " I wonder what your legal position will be when they realise and then present you with a large backdated estimated bill (or the equivalent unmetered bill). Since you knowlingly allowed the situation to continue you might end up worse off than if you get it fixed Robert |
#6
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.finance
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Compulsory water metering
Robert wrote:
"The four smallest wheels of my water meter go round OK when someone has a shower, but the ones that measure whole cubic metres don't go round any more. So my usage is zero every time the water company reads it. They don't seem to have noticed. I expect someone will come around and have a look one day. " I wonder what your legal position will be when they realise and then present you with a large backdated estimated bill (or the equivalent unmetered bill). Since you knowlingly allowed the situation to continue you might end up worse off than if you get it fixed Robert They probably already have him sussed,its not down to the meter reader to tell him this, as his job is just to read off the digits. :-) -- Sir Benjamin Midllethwaite |
#7
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Compulsory water metering
"Stickems." wrote:
Water meters have been compulsory for new builds for a long time. Since when, I wonder ? Since 1996 in my case. Daytona |
#8
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.finance
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Compulsory water metering
"Adam" wrote in message ... What I don't understand is why this is a news story at all in 2006. My water company, Thames Water, installed a water meter at my house about 8 years ago. I had no choice in this, which in my view means that compulsory water metering is not exactly new. About 8 years ago I was asked if I wanted a water meter by Thames Water, I declined and heard no more about it. There was no compultion! Strangely enough, on the very same day I got the letter from them telling me I had to have my water metered whether I liked it or not, their Chief Executive was interviewed on BBC Radio 4 about water metering and gave a categorical assurance that no-one would have to have water metering if they didn't want it. I phoned the Chief Executive's office to ask about this apparent inconsistency, and was told that "I was using a very restrictive definition of the word 'no-one'". Perhaps this is the first time the policy has been tested in court, but it's certainly not the first time water metering has been compulsory. Adam PS Apologies if this post appears twice. I think my first attempt to post it vanished into the aether, but I guess it may have just been delayed. |
#9
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.finance
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Compulsory water metering
"Adam" wrote in message ... What I don't understand is why this is a news story at all in 2006. My water company, Thames Water, installed a water meter at my house about 8 years ago. I had no choice in this, which in my view means that compulsory water metering is not exactly new. I wonder if any of the water compaies have thought of installing meters at the outlets from the water conditioners before it reaches properties, this would help them to calculate the amount of water leaking from pipes as they could work out how much people are using against the amount being pumped into the distribution system. Alan |
#10
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Compulsory water metering
Assuming everybody had a meter and all the meters were read on the same day,
it would be possible. "Alan Holmes" wrote in message ... | | "Adam" wrote in message | ... | What I don't understand is why this is a news story at all in 2006. My | water | company, Thames Water, installed a water meter at my house about 8 years | ago. I had no choice in this, which in my view means that compulsory water | metering is not exactly new. | | I wonder if any of the water compaies have thought of installing meters at | the outlets from the water conditioners before it reaches properties, this | would help them to calculate the amount of water leaking from pipes as they | could work out how much people are using against the amount being pumped | into the distribution system. | | Alan | | |
#11
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Compulsory water metering
Adam wrote:
Strangely enough, on the very same day I got the letter from them telling me I had to have my water metered whether I liked it or not, their Chief Executive was interviewed on BBC Radio 4 about water metering and gave a categorical assurance that no-one would have to have water metering if they didn't want it. I phoned the Chief Executive's office to ask about this apparent inconsistency, and was told that "I was using a very restrictive definition of the word 'no-one'". All new houses must have meters, and where you extend a house, you have to have a meter. You also need a meter if you want to use a garden sprinkler, or have a swimming pool. |
#12
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.finance
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Compulsory water metering
Robert wrote:
"The four smallest wheels of my water meter go round OK when someone has a shower, but the ones that measure whole cubic metres don't go round any more. So my usage is zero every time the water company reads it. They don't seem to have noticed. I expect someone will come around and have a look one day. " I wonder what your legal position will be when they realise and then present you with a large backdated estimated bill (or the equivalent unmetered bill). Since you knowlingly allowed the situation to continue you might end up worse off than if you get it fixed Yes, I was considering telling them. But it's not really my problem. The water company installed the meter which is now faulty. Any sensible computer system should flag zero or negative readings for attention. The water bills are paid automatically from my bank account, so I simply glance at the bill and file it and do nothing else. I am prepared to pay an amount based on my usage for the last year. I'm just interested to see how long it will take for them to notice. If a utilities company has made a mistake, they tend to be difficult to deal with, so it's best to avoid that. The meter reader for my power company made a very large mistake that implied my usage had doubled. Their computer system didn't flag that either. When I phoned them, they wanted me to supply a password for ID (when they had never given me one) then they would not accept my reading and sent someone around to re-read the meter. |
#13
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.finance
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Compulsory water metering
Daytona wrote
"Stickems." wrote: Water meters have been compulsory for new builds for a long time. Since when, I wonder ? Since 1996 in my case. In this area, if you have a meter fitted, you cannot go back to quarterly billing, and when the house is sold it remains metered. This could be an adverse situation if a large family were interested in the purchase, but as I live alone I would certainly save money by having one installed. I have heard though, that a more sophisticated and reliable meter will be available in the not too distant future, so I am uncertain whether to bother at this time. -- Gordon Harris |
#14
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.finance
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Compulsory water metering
Gordon wrote:
Nick wrote The meter reader for my power company made a very large mistake that implied my usage had doubled. Their computer system didn't flag that either. Uh - was that Powergen by any chance? The first gas meter reading taken at my g/friend's house after Powergen contracted out their meter reading to Meter Reading Services Ltd resulted in a bill which was about 3 times what it should have been. No, I'm in New Zealand, the land of d-i-y and No. 8 fencing wire to fix anything. I'm in uk.d-i-y because you guys seem to discuss lots of problems that I have, or that I have already solved. In recent years, power and gas utilities in NZ have been privatised and nobody knows which company caters for who. A digger cut through a gasline next door and I phoned 5 gas companies to stop the leak, but they all denied responsibility. |
#15
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.finance
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Compulsory water metering
In article , Stickems.
wrote: Water meters have been compulsory for new builds for a long time. Posting in a coherent manner has been recommended for many years, yet you still don't have a clue. -- AJL |
#16
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.finance
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Compulsory water metering
In article , Stickems.
wrote: Assuming everybody had a meter and all the meters were read on the same day, it would be possible. It's possible for you to post properly, but you don't. -- AJL |
#17
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.finance
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Compulsory water metering
Gordon wrote:
In this area, if you have a meter fitted, you cannot go back to quarterly billing, You have six months to change you mind here with Southern Water. Daytona |
#18
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Compulsory water metering
Gordon wrote:
I have heard though, that a more sophisticated and reliable meter will be available in the not too distant future, so I am uncertain whether to bother at this time. I think that the above would be my big concern. How accurate, when new, is a water meter and will it stay in calibration indefinitely? Dave |
#19
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Compulsory water metering
"Dave" wrote in message ... Gordon wrote: I have heard though, that a more sophisticated and reliable meter will be available in the not too distant future, so I am uncertain whether to bother at this time. I think that the above would be my big concern. How accurate, when new, is a water meter and will it stay in calibration indefinitely? Do you worry about that with your gas and electricity meters? Or your petrol gauge? Mary Dave |
#20
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.finance
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Compulsory water metering
"Guy King" wrote in message ... The message from "Mary Fisher" contains these words: How accurate, when new, is a water meter and will it stay in calibration indefinitely? Do you worry about that with your gas and electricity meters? Yes, and they get replaced from time to time for exactly that reason. Ours have been replaced once in 43 years. Would that satisfy you for a water meter? |
#21
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.finance
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Compulsory water metering
The message
from "Mary Fisher" contains these words: Do you worry about that with your gas and electricity meters? Yes, and they get replaced from time to time for exactly that reason. Ours have been replaced once in 43 years. Really? I'd complain. Our gas meter got changed last year - it was about a decade old. Not sure how old the leccy meter is though - we've only been here five years. Bears a sticker "Tested 1989" at which point it was probably about eighteen years old. I guess it'll get tested again some time, or replaced with a solid-state one. -- Skipweasel Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. |
#22
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Compulsory water metering
Guy King typed
The message from "Mary Fisher" contains these words: Do you worry about that with your gas and electricity meters? Yes, and they get replaced from time to time for exactly that reason. Ours have been replaced once in 43 years. Really? I'd complain. Our gas meter got changed last year - it was about a decade old. Not sure how old the leccy meter is though - we've only been here five years. Bears a sticker "Tested 1989" at which point it was probably about eighteen years old. I guess it'll get tested again some time, or replaced with a solid-state one. Quite. Both my gas and electricity meters have been changed within the past year. -- Helen D. Vecht: Edgware. |
#23
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.finance
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Compulsory water metering
On Thu, 2 Mar 2006 09:01:10 -0000, "Adam" wrote:
What I don't understand is why this is a news story at all in 2006. My water company, Thames Water, installed a water meter at my house about 8 years ago. I had no choice in this, which in my view means that compulsory water metering is not exactly new. The block of flats where my mother lives had meters installed by Thames Water several years ago, but they never read the meters and continue to send out bills based on the ratable value. Last year, they wrote to my mother asking her if she would like to have a water meter. She phoned them to say that she already had a water meter, thank you, and that she would be happy to be billed accordingly. The call centre person she spoke to refused to believe my mother and declined her invitation to come and have a look at the meter. Regards, -- David Uri. (remove VEST to reply) http://www.daviduri.co.uk |
#24
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Compulsory water metering
On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 18:52:59 +0000, Jonathan Bryce
wrote: You also need a meter if you want to use a garden sprinkler, or have a swimming pool. Yes, that's what they (the water company) told us too. Anyone like to quote something other than a water company flyer that backs this up in law? I didn't believe them any more than I believed the BG "engineer" (i.e. salesman) when he told us our boiler was unsafe and would have to be replaced (this was seven years ago and the boiler is still going strong and perfectly safe). -- Sometimes a majority only means that all the fools are on the same side. |
#25
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Compulsory water metering
assume you've never heard of soonest-first method of filing (posting) - it's
been around long before computers have - speak to an administrator (someone who archives for a living (professionally)) i suspect your newest gas bill can found alllllllllllllllllll the way behind the old archived ones - good thinking - not! "Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)" wrote in message . .. In article , Stickems. wrote: Assuming everybody had a meter and all the meters were read on the same day, it would be possible. It's possible for you to post properly, but you don't. -- AJL |
#26
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Compulsory water metering
"JethroUK©" wrote in message ... assume you've never heard of soonest-first method of filing (posting) - it's been around long before computers have - speak to an administrator (someone who archives for a living (professionally)) Balls. Usenet convention is bottom posting and always has been, as that is the way we write, top down. There are countless web page on Useenet etiquette. If you top post people will not respond to you on Usenet and many will just killfile you. Look at this group, all bottom post, just go with the flow. BTW, I have been on Usenet for eons, initially using green screens. This top posting crap came in because of useless MS Outlook which puts the cursor at the top. |
#27
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Compulsory water metering
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote: BTW, I have been on Usenet for eons, initially using green screens. I remember you appearing as Adam. What did you call yourself before then? -- *Why is 'abbreviation' such a long word? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#28
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.finance
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Compulsory water metering
The message
from "Dave Plowman (News)" contains these words: BTW, I have been on Usenet for eons, initially using green screens. I remember you appearing as Adam. What did you call yourself before then? Lucifer? -- Skipweasel Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. |
#29
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.finance
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Compulsory water metering
"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message reenews.net... This top posting crap came in because of useless MS Outlook which puts the cursor at the top. If you have a stupid reader that puts the cursor at the bottom then the first thing you have to do is move it to the top to select what you are going to snip. It is perfectly logical to start at the top and work down as you pointed out. M$ can't be held responsible if stupid people can use their products and it is they who don't follow the rules. Not that I agree with the rules regarding top posting or that we shouldn't use html for posts either. Its only the users who insist on being traditional (old fashioned) that think we should restrict the world to using plain *ASCII* text rather than rich html. |
#30
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.finance
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Compulsory water metering
"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message reenews.net... "JethroUK©" wrote in message ... assume you've never heard of soonest-first method of filing (posting) - it's been around long before computers have - speak to an administrator (someone who archives for a living (professionally)) Balls. Usenet convention is bottom posting and always has been, noone can help usenet defying common-sense - rules will always have problems when they do that as that is the way we write, top down. say - you - with the benefit of limited comprehension - that maybe 'a rule', but it is certainly not the reason There are countless web page on Useenet etiquette. rules are for those who lack the intelligence and common-sense to work without them - i can prove this without contradiction If you top post people will not respond to you on Usenet and many will just killfile you. more fool them - then they wont be able to benefit from my wisdom secondly - no one ever kill-files - they just say so - curiosity is toooooooooooooo powerful Look at this group, all bottom post, just go with the flow. BTW, I have been on Usenet for eons, initially using green screens. you can use 'green screens' now - so what are you saying exactly? This top posting crap came in because of useless MS Outlook which puts the cursor at the top. yet another case of you putting 2 & 2 together and making 5 - email clients (not just outlook) put the cursor at the top for a very good reason - the fact that it hasn't dawned on you cant be helped - i suggest you stick to rules Fact - You file your new gas bill behind alllllllllllllllllll your old (archived) gas bills - i know this to be so, in fact i am so confident that i will shoot myself in the head if it isn't so - based on 'your' confirmation before computers were even invented, professional filing was (still-is) current-most-first - current information (the latest news) is filed in front of the old news - 'archives' are kept immediately behind from the most current to the least current i'd like to say for obvious reasons but i fear it eludes you - however, rather than explain the reasons i have decided to let you 'think' about the benefits before i tell you this method of handling news could not be transfered to paper until the advent of computers - but now it can - and has been - by all email clients - i dread to imagine what your email responses look like - i fear you will be fighting a losing battle with the rest of your colleagues whilst you pontificate your misguided conclusions 'the' reason for posting in-line is where you need to address specific points (as opposed to the post as a whole) - so it is also common-sense that the reply by within the vicinity of the point it is addressing |
#31
Posted to uk.finance,uk.d-i-y
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Compulsory water metering
On Sun, 5 Mar 2006 17:49:45 UTC, "JethroUK?" wrote:
Fact - You file your new gas bill behind alllllllllllllllllll your old (archived) gas bills - i know this to be so, in fact i am so confident that i will shoot myself in the head if it isn't so - based on 'your' confirmation Exactly, facing towards me, so that if I lift the pile out, the oldest is on the top. before computers were even invented, professional filing was (still-is) current-most-first - current information (the latest news) is filed in front of the old news - 'archives' are kept immediately behind from the most current to the least current Nope. -- The information contained in this post is copyright the poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by Avenue Supplies, http://avenuesupplies.co.uk |
#32
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Compulsory water metering
The only user of a stupid paper filing system?
Regards Capitol Bob Eager wrote: On Sun, 5 Mar 2006 17:49:45 UTC, "JethroUK?" wrote: Fact - You file your new gas bill behind alllllllllllllllllll your old (archived) gas bills - i know this to be so, in fact i am so confident that i will shoot myself in the head if it isn't so - based on 'your' confirmation Exactly, facing towards me, so that if I lift the pile out, the oldest is on the top. before computers were even invented, professional filing was (still-is) current-most-first - current information (the latest news) is filed in front of the old news - 'archives' are kept immediately behind from the most current to the least current Nope. |
#33
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Compulsory water metering
In article ,
dennis@home wrote: Not that I agree with the rules regarding top posting or that we shouldn't use html for posts either. Its only the users who insist on being traditional (old fashioned) that think we should restrict the world to using plain *ASCII* text rather than rich html. If you gave a tiny bit of thought about the storage needed for HTLM against plain text on the news servers - and want it to remain a free service - you'd have your answer. Also, it's designed to be a service for all the world, and not everyone has 'free' broadband connection. -- *Prepositions are not words to end sentences with * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#34
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Compulsory water metering
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote: "JethroUK©" wrote in message ... assume you've never heard of soonest-first method of filing (posting) - it's been around long before computers have - speak to an administrator (someone who archives for a living (professionally)) Balls. Usenet convention is bottom posting and always has been, as that is the way we write, top down. There are countless web page on Useenet etiquette. The news.newusers.questions FAQ http://www.plig.net/nnq/nquote.html How to post to uk news groups http://www.usenet.org.uk/ukpost.html Proper quoting style explained http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/http/quote.html -- John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822 Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing |
#35
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Compulsory water metering
On Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:59:22 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote: This top posting crap came in because of useless MS Outlook which puts the cursor at the top. Firstly, MS Outlook is an email program and cannot be used for Usenet. I assume you are talking about Outlook Express. Secondly, Agent (which I use) places the cursor at the top as well. Thirdly, the correct place for the cursor is at the top, not the bottom - this allows judicious snipping of irrelevant stuff and the interjection of comments. I would expect all good newsreaders (and some rubbish ones) to place the cursor at the top. Fourthly, top posters are mostly stupid, ignorant, young or a combination of all three. Their posts are also so rarely worth reading that it's not worth worth bothering about any of them. -- Sometimes a majority only means that all the fools are on the same side. |
#36
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Compulsory water metering
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , dennis@home wrote: Not that I agree with the rules regarding top posting or that we shouldn't use html for posts either. Its only the users who insist on being traditional (old fashioned) that think we should restrict the world to using plain *ASCII* text rather than rich html. If you gave a tiny bit of thought about the storage needed for HTLM against plain text on the news servers - and want it to remain a free service - you'd have your answer. Also, it's designed to be a service for all the world, and not everyone has 'free' broadband connection. Html *is* text and doesn't take up a vast amount of space. More is wasted by peoples stupid and pointless sigs. |
#37
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Compulsory water metering
"dennis@home" wrote
Html *is* text and doesn't take up a vast amount of space. Irritating and unnecessary though, innit? More is wasted by peoples stupid and pointless sigs. Two wrongs?..... -- Gordon |
#38
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Compulsory water metering
On Sun, 5 Mar 2006 20:43:13 UTC, "dennis@home"
wrote: If you gave a tiny bit of thought about the storage needed for HTLM against plain text on the news servers - and want it to remain a free service - you'd have your answer. Also, it's designed to be a service for all the world, and not everyone has 'free' broadband connection. Html *is* text and doesn't take up a vast amount of space. It takes up a great deal. Just because the markup is textual, doesn't make it right. -- The information contained in this post is copyright the poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by Avenue Supplies, http://avenuesupplies.co.uk |
#39
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Compulsory water metering
"Gordon" wrote in message ... "dennis@home" wrote Html *is* text and doesn't take up a vast amount of space. Irritating and unnecessary though, innit? Why is it irritating? If you have a modern reader it just looks like a news posting the same as any other. The only real difference is that it is easier to get the quoting correct. |
#40
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Compulsory water metering
"dennis@home" wrote in message k... "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , dennis@home wrote: Not that I agree with the rules regarding top posting or that we shouldn't use html for posts either. Its only the users who insist on being traditional (old fashioned) that think we should restrict the world to using plain *ASCII* text rather than rich html. If you gave a tiny bit of thought about the storage needed for HTLM against plain text on the news servers - and want it to remain a free service - you'd have your answer. Also, it's designed to be a service for all the world, and not everyone has 'free' broadband connection. Html *is* text and doesn't take up a vast amount of space. More is wasted by peoples stupid and pointless sigs. Its not the size that matters (!!), its the viruses and malware that can be carried in it. -- Tumbleweed email replies not necessary but to contact use; tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com |
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