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  #1   Report Post  
Andrew McKay
 
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Default Electrician's Box Sinker

On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 22:29:30 +0100, Martin Angove
wrote:

They sound like a great idea, but if I'm going to be spending over £160
on a tool to do a single job I want to know, firstly does it *really*
work, secondly is it easier than other methods and thirdly, will it
last?


I'm not quibbling the choice of SDS drill, but do you really need to
spend £160 for one?

I just spent £79 in a Homebase shed for the following:

http://tinyurl.com/g601

Looks like they just come down in price too - oh well!

I'm wondering whether paying double will actually buy you something
better?

Andrew

Do you need a handyman service? Check out our
web site at http://www.handymac.co.uk
  #2   Report Post  
Jim Ley
 
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On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 22:29:30 +0100, Martin Angove


They sound like a great idea, but if I'm going to be spending over £160
on a tool to do a single job I want to know, firstly does it *really*
work, secondly is it easier than other methods and thirdly, will it
last?

Any experience?


We had a very different looking thing from a hire shop the other day,
just looked like a meat tenderiser, was a bit too violent, but
certainly did the job, went through brick and block work in a lot less
than the 3 minutes it says in the screwfix catalogue.

It was too violent though really, we chose not to use it on a single
block dividing wall the shaking it gave it...

Jim.
  #3   Report Post  
John Stumbles
 
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Default Electrician's Box Sinker

"Martin Angove" wrote in message
...
Since I'm likely to be doing a lot of wiring work in the future, I've
been looking at various tools to make my life easier, and a nice shiny
new SDS drill is top of the list.


BES do a Hitachi or Makita or something similar for £100

Maybe we'll talk about what else I
should get later, but for now what I want to know is, are the
"Electrician's Box Sinker" devices (e.g. Screwfix d74206 / d91913) any
good?

They sound like a great idea, but if I'm going to be spending over £160
on a tool to do a single job I want to know, firstly does it *really*
work, secondly is it easier than other methods and thirdly, will it
last?

Any experience?



The rotary (tct-studded drill) bit makes a hell of a lot of dust, and isn't
that quick. I haven't used it since the time I did a dozen or so boxes in
one room followed by a couple of hours cleaning (the room and myself) up
afterwards! (If you want to buy a slightly used one I'm up for offers :-).

I didn't buy the box-shaped bit.

They (SF) were also doing a sort of bed-of-nails-on-a-stick tool a while
back, but it doesn't seem to be in the catalogue now. Don't know if they
were any good.


On a similar note, what about the channelling chisels (d16724 etc.)?


They work, but the first one I had broke off at the SDS end of the shank
after a while, followed by the drill I was using breaking at the chuck!

Because of the way the tool shank curves ...

---------
\
\ chisel
------|____

.... it generates a lot of sideways impact force which I suspect was what did
for chisel and hammer. If they'd designed it with a straight shank ...

------------------\____

.... and with the chisel end slightly offset (imagine a slight rake upwards -
impossible to show with ascii art!) I think it'd be more robust.


For box sinking I tend to put in a few holes for the the corners and to
break up the body of the cut (and to set the depth) and use a straight
chisel to cut out the rest.


cheers

--
John Stumbles
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
-+
Sometimes the only way you can feel good about yourself
is by making someone else look bad.
And I'm tired of making other people feel good about themselves!



  #4   Report Post  
Chris Oates
 
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"Roger Mills" wrote in
message ...

I think everyone is confused
he means this
http://tinyurl.com/g637


  #5   Report Post  
Andy Hall
 
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Default Electrician's Box Sinker

On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 23:23:29 +0100, Andrew McKay
wrote:

On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 22:29:30 +0100, Martin Angove
wrote:

They sound like a great idea, but if I'm going to be spending over £160
on a tool to do a single job I want to know, firstly does it *really*
work, secondly is it easier than other methods and thirdly, will it
last?


I'm not quibbling the choice of SDS drill, but do you really need to
spend £160 for one?

I just spent £79 in a Homebase shed for the following:

http://tinyurl.com/g601

Looks like they just come down in price too - oh well!

I'm wondering whether paying double will actually buy you something
better?


In the case of an SDS drill, if you are going to use it regularly,
absolutely it's worth buying a good one like a Bosch.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl


  #6   Report Post  
Toby
 
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"Electrician's Box Sinker" devices (e.g. Screwfix d74206 / d91913) any
good?

After hand chiselling about half the sockets in my house I started to
seriously consider one.
Thought about it, but someone suggested this to me one day, and it works for
me.
If you have a 110m core drill (cheap £20 type) sink this to box depth then
knock out the core.
Two holes like a venn diagram for a 2 gang box. Less dust than the box
sinker as the core normally stays intact.
I thought the hand method was neater, I could fix a box without breakout
around the edges most times, but seeing as you've got to plaster the
trunking anyway you may as well plaster round the box.

Toby.


  #7   Report Post  
Chippy
 
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"John Stumbles" ] wrote in message ...

The rotary (tct-studded drill) bit makes a hell of a lot of dust, and isn't
that quick. I haven't used it since the time I did a dozen or so boxes in
one room followed by a couple of hours cleaning (the room and myself) up
afterwards! (If you want to buy a slightly used one I'm up for offers :-).

I didn't buy the box-shaped bit.

They (SF) were also doing a sort of bed-of-nails-on-a-stick tool a while
back, but it doesn't seem to be in the catalogue now. Don't know if they
were any good.


I can't see any of them being worth the money - I can make a neat
(neat in the sense that it takes a rubber mallet to seat the box)
cavity in less than five minutes just using an SDS drill, followed by
a 20mm SDS chisel.



On a similar note, what about the channelling chisels (d16724 etc.)?


They work, but the first one I had broke off at the SDS end of the shank
after a while, followed by the drill I was using breaking at the chuck!

Because of the way the tool shank curves ...

---------
\
\ chisel
------|____

... it generates a lot of sideways impact force which I suspect was what did
for chisel and hammer. If they'd designed it with a straight shank ...

------------------\____

... and with the chisel end slightly offset (imagine a slight rake upwards -
impossible to show with ascii art!) I think it'd be more robust.


I use a 22mm SDS gouge, from Axminster. It is as you describe, does
the channelling beautifully, and cost £4.95.



For box sinking I tend to put in a few holes for the the corners and to
break up the body of the cut (and to set the depth) and use a straight
chisel to cut out the rest.


This is the method that I use (see above),
  #8   Report Post  
Toby
 
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I use a 22mm SDS gouge, from Axminster. It is as you describe, does
the channelling beautifully, and cost £4.95.


Do you mean this?

Axminster Power tools SDS Accessories
G310B4 20mm SDS Channelling Chisel £24.31 excl VAT £28.56 incl VAT



  #9   Report Post  
Andrew McKay
 
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Default Electrician's Box Sinker

On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 23:12:13 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:

http://tinyurl.com/g601


The link you've given is to a search result page and doesn't link back to
anything unless you go through the same search process as you went through.


Well I've just clicked the above link and gone straight to the page
describing the SDS drill! Obviously something to do with cookies or
whatever I suppose.

Andrew

Do you need a handyman service? Check out our
web site at http://www.handymac.co.uk
  #10   Report Post  
Chippy
 
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This is the SDS gouge:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/default.asp?part=BSDSGOUGE


  #11   Report Post  
Toby
 
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Default Electrician's Box Sinker


"Chippy" wrote in message
om...
This is the SDS gouge:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/default.asp?part=BSDSGOUGE


Just the job. Unlike the Axminster menu system.

Toby.


  #12   Report Post  
Andy Hall
 
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On Mon, 7 Jul 2003 08:32:45 +0100, "Toby"
wrote:


"Chippy" wrote in message
. com...
This is the SDS gouge:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/default.asp?part=BSDSGOUGE


Just the job. Unlike the Axminster menu system.

Toby.


I bought one of these cheap ones a few months ago and it didn't last
at all well - went blunt very quickly and started making a big mess of
the chases.

I replaced it with the other one that was identified (G310B4). This
is UK made by a company called Armeg and is a different proposition
altogether - very smooth results and no sign of wear after quite a
bit of use.

I also bought their mortar rake (G175B4) which has proved to be a
great tool for electrical and other work where neatly removing a brick
etc. is required.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
  #13   Report Post  
Andrew Gabriel
 
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Default Electrician's Box Sinker

In article ,
"BigWallop" writes:

These are the best type I've used:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/cooperhouse/fr_ha61.htm


I have one of these. It did about 30-35 boxes (counting twice
for double boxes) very well, but quite suddenly became ineffective
when it wore out (cutting edge became rounded). The square piece
in the kit was completely useless and would get stuck in the
hole -- squaring off the round hole was much more easily done
with a chisel attachment. So, the cost was something over £2
per box, or £5 for doubles, which looking back isn't cheap.

--
Andrew Gabriel
  #14   Report Post  
Dave Plowman
 
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Default Electrician's Box Sinker

In article ,
Toby wrote:
I thought the hand method was neater, I could fix a box without breakout
around the edges most times, but seeing as you've got to plaster the
trunking anyway you may as well plaster round the box.


Yup - I've never seen the point in making a neat hole in a solid wall.
Plasterboard where the cables go behind it, yes.

--
*If God had wanted me to touch my toes, he would have put them on my knees

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn
  #15   Report Post  
SpamTrapSeeSig
 
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Default Electrician's Box Sinker

In article , Martin Angove
writes
Since I'm likely to be doing a lot of wiring work in the future, I've
been looking at various tools to make my life easier, and a nice shiny
new SDS drill is top of the list. Maybe we'll talk about what else I
should get later, but for now what I want to know is, are the
"Electrician's Box Sinker" devices (e.g. Screwfix d74206 / d91913) any
good?


Mine is the original Screwfix one, and it is good, including in the
engineering-hardness bricks we have here.

I've largely solved the dust problem: Bin-liner sized clear plastic bags
taped to the wall with masking tape - cut off one bottom corner to pass
the drill's plug through, then tape up, with around 1m of cable inside
for ease of manipulation. You hold the drill through the plastic bag. I
did this in one of the children's bedrooms, and hardly needed to run the
hoover over the carpet where I'd been working afterwards.

Pros and cons (YMMV):

+ Cuts nicely to depth, leaving a farly smooth back to the box.
+ The square cutter gives a nice clean hole
+ It is fast. Takes around 5-10 mins to do a hole, with far less making
good than when I've used other methods.
- The square cutter *does* jam, but not a disaster
- using it for double boxes is tricky, so I made up a MDF template to
drill pilot holes - works a treat.
- the square cutter can slip round when you start (although
it's SDS mounting can rotate WRT the cutter, you *must*
have rotary stop for safety, in case it jams). It helps to have an
'assistant' hold a straight edge horizontal on the top of the cutter
as you start to cut. Once it's started it's fine.

Mine has done around 50-60 boxes so far. It doesn't look blunt yet, and
I'd be tempted to try grinding it carefully when it eventually goes.

On balance, I like it a lot. In block/weaker brickwork, it would be even
better. It's not cheap, but IMHO, the ease of doing an irritatingly
awkward job makes it worth it. Having said that, the core drill method
suggested elsewhere sounds brilliant to get the depth. If you're going
for a good quality, clutch-equipped SDS drill it might be worth it.

Regards,

Simonm.

--
simonm|at|muircom|dot|demon|.|c|oh|dot|u|kay
SIMON MUIR, UK INDEPENDENCE PARTY, BRISTOL www.ukip.org
EUROPEANS AGAINST THE EU www.members.aol.com/eurofaq
GT250A'76 R80/RT '86 www.kc3ltd.co.uk/profile/eurofollie/


  #16   Report Post  
Phil Addison
 
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Default Electrician's Box Sinker

On Sun, 6 Jul 2003 23:35:33 +0100, in uk.d-i-y "John Stumbles"
] wrote:
The rotary (tct-studded drill) bit makes a hell of a lot of dust, and isn't
that quick. I haven't used it since the time I did a dozen or so boxes in
one room followed by a couple of hours cleaning (the room and myself) up
afterwards! (If you want to buy a slightly used one I'm up for offers :-).

I didn't buy the box-shaped bit.


See
http://groups.google.com/groups?&thr...ic %404ax.com
for a previous thread on this subject, which includes my expediencies
with the screwfix version, and what sounds like a very good idea from
someone else to use a fine water spray to control the dust.

--
Phil Addison
The uk.d-i-y FAQ is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/
Remove NOSPAM from address to reply
  #17   Report Post  
Martin Angove
 
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Default Electrician's Box Sinker

In message ,
Martin Angove wrote:

Since I'm likely to be doing a lot of wiring work in the future, I've
been looking at various tools to make my life easier, and a nice shiny
new SDS drill is top of the list. Maybe we'll talk about what else I
should get later, but for now what I want to know is, are the
"Electrician's Box Sinker" devices (e.g. Screwfix d74206 / d91913) any
good?

They sound like a great idea, but if I'm going to be spending over £160
on a tool to do a single job I want to know, firstly does it *really*
work, secondly is it easier than other methods and thirdly, will it
last?


Great responses, thanks everyone. Just to confirm, the £160 I'm worried
about *isn't* the cost of the drill (though not far off - I've been
looking at a 620W Bosch), it's the combined cost of the sinker set
(single, double, rotary, pilot) from Screwfix.

If I read things right, it seems there are two camps on this matter.
First camp says they're brilliant for making a hole and doing it neatly,
second says there are cheaper ways that don't make as much dust.

I think I'm beginning to lean towards the idea of using a core drill and
squaring it off with a chisel.

Seriously short of powertool catalogues though. Maybe a request to
Axminster is in order :-)

Hwyl!

Martin.

--
Martin Angove (it's Cornish for "Smith") - ARM/Digital SA110 RPC
See the Aber Valley -- http://www.tridwr.demon.co.uk/abervalley.html
.... Monday is the root of all evil!
  #18   Report Post  
Andy Hall
 
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Default Electrician's Box Sinker

On Mon, 07 Jul 2003 20:03:35 +0100, Martin Angove
wrote:



Seriously short of powertool catalogues though. Maybe a request to
Axminster is in order :-)

Hwyl!

Martin.


Oh dear. You mean you haven't got six of them?

Other useful ones are from Rutlands and DM Tools who have some things
that Axminster doesn't.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
  #19   Report Post  
Andrew McKay
 
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On Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:05:38 +0100, "John Stumbles"
] wrote:

Your SDS drill looks suspiciously like a NuTool! I had B&Q's own brand but
found it was heavy and went through 3 each of which broke.


It certainly is heavy. I have no idea if it is a rebadged NuTool but I
dare say that is a strong possibility.

To be perfectly honest with this being my first ever experience of an
SDS drill I'm happy to write off the cost if it proves unreliable,
because any future replacement will be made on the basis of direct
experience which I didn't have previously

Andrew

Do you need a handyman service? Check out our
web site at http://www.handymac.co.uk
  #20   Report Post  
Andrew McKay
 
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Default Electrician's Box Sinker

On Mon, 07 Jul 2003 20:03:35 +0100, Martin Angove
wrote:

I think I'm beginning to lean towards the idea of using a core drill and
squaring it off with a chisel.


Core drills are quite capable of producing lots of dust

Andrew

Do you need a handyman service? Check out our
web site at http://www.handymac.co.uk


  #21   Report Post  
BigWallop
 
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Default Electrician's Box Sinker


"Andrew McKay" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 23:12:13 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:

http://tinyurl.com/g601


The link you've given is to a search result page and doesn't link back to
anything unless you go through the same search process as you went

through.

Well I've just clicked the above link and gone straight to the page
describing the SDS drill! Obviously something to do with cookies or
whatever I suppose.

Andrew



I'm Sorry Andrew.........you can stop hitting me
now.........ouch.........ooya.......ow! It works now, but when I tried it
earlier it took me to a search page..........ow!...........ouch. :-))


---
BigWallop

http://basecuritysystems.no-ip.com

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.497 / Virus Database: 296 - Release Date: 04/07/03


  #22   Report Post  
Andrew McKay
 
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On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 07:27:48 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:

I'm Sorry Andrew.........you can stop hitting me
now.........ouch.........ooya.......ow! It works now, but when I tried it
earlier it took me to a search page..........ow!...........ouch. :-))


Biff....smack.....wallop!

Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da ------ BATMAN!

Andrew

Do you need a handyman service? Check out our
web site at http://www.handymac.co.uk
  #23   Report Post  
Andrew McKay
 
Posts: n/a
Default Electrician's Box Sinker

On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:48:16 +0100, "John Stumbles"
] wrote:

Core drills are just wimpy amateurs in the dust producing league compared to
these babes! ;-)


I stand corrected. Though when I used a core drill a few weeks back
for the first time I was amazed at the fine dust that came out of the
wall!

Andrew

Do you need a handyman service? Check out our
web site at http://www.handymac.co.uk
  #24   Report Post  
Andrew Gabriel
 
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In article ,
Andrew McKay writes:
On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:48:16 +0100, "John Stumbles"
] wrote:

Core drills are just wimpy amateurs in the dust producing league compared to
these babes! ;-)


I stand corrected. Though when I used a core drill a few weeks back
for the first time I was amazed at the fine dust that came out of the
wall!


The box sinker (rotary type anyway) effectively turns the whole
core into dust too, and checks it out into the air.

--
Andrew Gabriel
  #25   Report Post  
Andy Dingley
 
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On Mon, 07 Jul 2003 08:59:47 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/default.asp?part=BSDSGOUGE



I bought one of these cheap ones a few months ago and it didn't last
at all well - went blunt very quickly and started making a big mess of
the chases.


Looks like the Axminster one I used (very briefly).

Went through two red bricks OK, then into a blue engineering brick.
Made it about halfway down, then the end fell off !

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