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Richard Marx
 
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Default Keeping fridge in a cupboard - good or bad energy?

Hi, I have recently moved and have a large kitchen cupboard designed to take
a fridge, with a full-height wooden door on it (almost like entering another
room or broom cupboard). Is keeping the fridge in there with the door shut
a good thing or a bad thing, energy-consumption-wise?

I.e. does the fridge's heat not dissipate so well, heating the cupboard,
causing the fridge interior to warm up faster so its thermostat clicks in
more often; or does it keep the cool in by double-insulating the fridge
making it more energy efficient?

I don't notice any particular cold or hot air when I open the door, but it
certainly keeps the noise in with the door shut!

Thanks for any advice.


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Ophelia
 
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Default Keeping fridge in a cupboard - good or bad energy?


"Richard Marx" wrote in message
.uk...
Hi, I have recently moved and have a large kitchen cupboard designed
to take a fridge, with a full-height wooden door on it (almost like
entering another room or broom cupboard). Is keeping the fridge in
there with the door shut a good thing or a bad thing,
energy-consumption-wise?


I had a big fridge die after I put it in a cupboard. Of course I have
no proof that was the reason.


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Posted to free.uk.diy.home,uk.d-i-y
 
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Default Keeping fridge in a cupboard - good or bad energy?

Hi, I have recently moved and have a large kitchen cupboard designed
to take a fridge, with a full-height wooden door on it (almost like
entering another room or broom cupboard). Is keeping the fridge in
there with the door shut a good thing or a bad thing,
energy-consumption-wise?


We put our smallish deep freezer into out larder a few years back
and it did make the larder a lot warmer. We were not keen on this heat
as the larder was just nice and cool before so we put the freezer back
where it started.

Chris.

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Lobster
 
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Default Keeping fridge in a cupboard - good or bad energy?

Richard Marx wrote:
Hi, I have recently moved and have a large kitchen cupboard designed to take
a fridge, with a full-height wooden door on it (almost like entering another
room or broom cupboard). Is keeping the fridge in there with the door shut
a good thing or a bad thing, energy-consumption-wise?

I.e. does the fridge's heat not dissipate so well, heating the cupboard,
causing the fridge interior to warm up faster so its thermostat clicks in
more often; or does it keep the cool in by double-insulating the fridge
making it more energy efficient?


The former. The fridge cools its interior by, in effect, pumping the
heat to the exterior; if you prevent that from dissipating, it will
overheat. (I would imagine the inside of your cupboard must be a *bit*
warmer than the room as a result of the fridge being in there, so
there's a bigger temperature gradient overcome between the fridge
interior and exterior than if it sat in the kitchen). But I imagine if
you can't detect any increased temperature in the cupboard, it's
probably big enough a volume inside for it not to be a problem for the
fridge.

David
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dave
 
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Default Keeping fridge in a cupboard - good or bad energy?

If the cupboard was really designed for a fridge properly there would be
some ventilation built in, either to the outside world or into the room
containing the cupboard.

You really can't win. In winter venting the cupboard to the outside world
would be the best solution for energy consumption of the fridge, but not
neccesarily the house heating. In Summer your house might be cooler than
the outside world on average depending on construction, so venting into the
house would be best. The whole story needs to consider the heating/ cooling
energy requirements of your whole house. Its impossible to say without
knowing exact energy balance details for your house with regard to heating
and ventilation and temperaures, when a change over point would give you the
least energy consumption overall. So I would say forget it and put the
fridge where it pleases you most. You won't make much difference to your
bills or Ozone layer either way.

Dave

"Richard Marx" wrote in message
.uk...
Hi, I have recently moved and have a large kitchen cupboard designed to
take a fridge, with a full-height wooden door on it (almost like entering
another room or broom cupboard). Is keeping the fridge in there with the
door shut a good thing or a bad thing, energy-consumption-wise?

I.e. does the fridge's heat not dissipate so well, heating the cupboard,
causing the fridge interior to warm up faster so its thermostat clicks in
more often; or does it keep the cool in by double-insulating the fridge
making it more energy efficient?

I don't notice any particular cold or hot air when I open the door, but it
certainly keeps the noise in with the door shut!

Thanks for any advice.





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Richard Marx
 
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Default Keeping fridge in a cupboard - good or bad energy?

Thanks everyone.

Would just taking the door off the cupboard (which is recessed into the
kitchen wall anyway be a better idea, and just leave the fridge recessed in
there, but open to the kitchen instead of enclosed?

"dave" wrote in message
...
If the cupboard was really designed for a fridge properly there would be
some ventilation built in, either to the outside world or into the room
containing the cupboard.

You really can't win. In winter venting the cupboard to the outside world
would be the best solution for energy consumption of the fridge, but not
neccesarily the house heating. In Summer your house might be cooler than
the outside world on average depending on construction, so venting into
the house would be best. The whole story needs to consider the heating/
cooling energy requirements of your whole house. Its impossible to say
without knowing exact energy balance details for your house with regard to
heating and ventilation and temperaures, when a change over point would
give you the least energy consumption overall. So I would say forget it
and put the fridge where it pleases you most. You won't make much
difference to your bills or Ozone layer either way.

Dave

"Richard Marx" wrote in message
.uk...
Hi, I have recently moved and have a large kitchen cupboard designed to
take a fridge, with a full-height wooden door on it (almost like entering
another room or broom cupboard). Is keeping the fridge in there with the
door shut a good thing or a bad thing, energy-consumption-wise?

I.e. does the fridge's heat not dissipate so well, heating the cupboard,
causing the fridge interior to warm up faster so its thermostat clicks in
more often; or does it keep the cool in by double-insulating the fridge
making it more energy efficient?

I don't notice any particular cold or hot air when I open the door, but
it certainly keeps the noise in with the door shut!

Thanks for any advice.





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john
 
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Default Keeping fridge in a cupboard - good or bad energy?


"Richard Marx" wrote in message
. uk...
Thanks everyone.

Would just taking the door off the cupboard (which is recessed into the
kitchen wall anyway be a better idea, and just leave the fridge recessed
in there, but open to the kitchen instead of enclosed?

"dave" wrote in message
...
If the cupboard was really designed for a fridge properly there would be
some ventilation built in, either to the outside world or into the room
containing the cupboard.

You really can't win. In winter venting the cupboard to the outside world
would be the best solution for energy consumption of the fridge, but not
neccesarily the house heating. In Summer your house might be cooler than
the outside world on average depending on construction, so venting into
the house would be best. The whole story needs to consider the heating/
cooling energy requirements of your whole house. Its impossible to say
without knowing exact energy balance details for your house with regard
to heating and ventilation and temperaures, when a change over point
would give you the least energy consumption overall. So I would say
forget it and put the fridge where it pleases you most. You won't make
much difference to your bills or Ozone layer either way.

Dave

"Richard Marx" wrote in message
.uk...
Hi, I have recently moved and have a large kitchen cupboard designed to
take a fridge, with a full-height wooden door on it (almost like
entering another room or broom cupboard). Is keeping the fridge in
there with the door shut a good thing or a bad thing,
energy-consumption-wise?

I.e. does the fridge's heat not dissipate so well, heating the cupboard,
causing the fridge interior to warm up faster so its thermostat clicks
in more often; or does it keep the cool in by double-insulating the
fridge making it more energy efficient?

I don't notice any particular cold or hot air when I open the door, but
it certainly keeps the noise in with the door shut!

Thanks for any advice.





My fridge is in a tight location and I have thought of fitting a small fan
somewhere to create a draught - something like the fan in the back of a PC
but a bit bigger.

Any thoughts?


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Stickems.
 
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Default Keeping fridge in a cupboard - good or bad energy?

Yes.


"Richard Marx" wrote in message
. uk...
| Thanks everyone.
|
| Would just taking the door off the cupboard (which is recessed into the
| kitchen wall anyway be a better idea, and just leave the fridge recessed
in
| there, but open to the kitchen instead of enclosed?
|
| "dave" wrote in message
| ...
| If the cupboard was really designed for a fridge properly there would be
| some ventilation built in, either to the outside world or into the room
| containing the cupboard.
|
| You really can't win. In winter venting the cupboard to the outside
world
| would be the best solution for energy consumption of the fridge, but not
| neccesarily the house heating. In Summer your house might be cooler
than
| the outside world on average depending on construction, so venting into
| the house would be best. The whole story needs to consider the heating/
| cooling energy requirements of your whole house. Its impossible to say
| without knowing exact energy balance details for your house with regard
to
| heating and ventilation and temperaures, when a change over point would
| give you the least energy consumption overall. So I would say forget it
| and put the fridge where it pleases you most. You won't make much
| difference to your bills or Ozone layer either way.
|
| Dave
|
| "Richard Marx" wrote in message
| .uk...
| Hi, I have recently moved and have a large kitchen cupboard designed to
| take a fridge, with a full-height wooden door on it (almost like
entering
| another room or broom cupboard). Is keeping the fridge in there with
the
| door shut a good thing or a bad thing, energy-consumption-wise?
|
| I.e. does the fridge's heat not dissipate so well, heating the
cupboard,
| causing the fridge interior to warm up faster so its thermostat clicks
in
| more often; or does it keep the cool in by double-insulating the fridge
| making it more energy efficient?
|
| I don't notice any particular cold or hot air when I open the door, but
| it certainly keeps the noise in with the door shut!
|
| Thanks for any advice.
|
|
|
|
|


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Dorothy Bradbury
 
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Default Keeping fridge in a cupboard - good or bad energy?

You need to ventilate the cupboard or larder...
o Vents
---- one in the front bottom of the dooor (intake)
---- one in the front top of the door (exhaust, by convection)
o Door left 2" ajar
---- you will find the cupboard slightly warmer when you walk in
---- however hot air will exit, drawing in cooler air near the floor

Cooling appliances work by...
o Compressor uses gas-liquid phase change to pump heat out of a box
---- compressor does not run continually (it would soon fail)
---- compressor cycles on & off based on an internal thermostat
o Appliance sits in its own ambient temperature
---- appliance in a cupboard will heat ambient quite considerably
---- so the compressor will cycle more often & use more power

In a cupboard you may want to set the appliance so it tilts backwards.
o So the door naturally swings closed if someone doesn't shut it properly
o This is particularly important for freezers where food can go off fast

No it does not "double insulate" the fridge...
o Fridge is a heat pump removing heat from inside the fridge
---- insulation stops the heat from outside the fridge getting in quickly
o Higher temperatures outside the fridge
---- reduce effectiveness of the insulation (higher temp delta)
---- reduce effectiveness of the fridge coils to dump heat (lower temp
delta)
---- increase the amount of energy the fridge will use

Modern fridges/freezers do seem to dissipate a lot less heat than some
of 20yrs ago - which results in lower thermal input into the surroundings.
However the same applies, and energy does add up over a long time.

Personally I would simply not shut the cupboard door, stick a fridge
thermostat inside and glance at it every time you open the fridge.
--
DB.


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Dorothy Bradbury
 
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Default Keeping fridge in a cupboard - good or bad energy?

Duh, an obvious solution.
o Remember the ?french? horizontal slatted doors used in various places?
o They would be ideal for this application re allowing near free air
ventilation

That avoids fitting vents into doors, although up to you.
I would simply leave the door 2" ajar - that will be more than sufficient.
--
DB.




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Dorothy Bradbury
 
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Default Keeping fridge in a cupboard - good or bad energy?

No re the fan, it adds complexity re powering it & should it ever seize...
o Most DC fans are designed for 72-200hrs locked rotor
---- eg, current limiting by power-cutout, timer, restart, repeat
o However AC fans use thermal cutout for 24-72hrs, and get very hot
---- AC fan when not turning do not have current limiting
---- eg, they use bimetallic or other methods to prevent overheating

They are used in such applications, inside (-40oC rated) & outside.
However for DIY use you can find a less complicated solution...

Simply use natural convection...
o Most fridges only have adjustable feet at the front
---- at the rear they sit flat on the floor obstructing airflow
---- so convection is forced to use the side gaps, scavaging
o Instead place the fridge on even slim floor spacers either side
---- so creating an air gap direct to the compressor & up over the rear

Fridges do not dissipate much heat (freezers do, particularly if they
use a hot-gas auto-defrost system which can give a big heat spike).
--
DB.


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Jim Scott
 
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Default Keeping fridge in a cupboard - good or bad energy?

On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 12:37:39 GMT, Richard Marx wrote:

Hi, I have recently moved and have a large kitchen cupboard designed to take
a fridge, with a full-height wooden door on it (almost like entering another
room or broom cupboard). Is keeping the fridge in there with the door shut
a good thing or a bad thing, energy-consumption-wise?

I.e. does the fridge's heat not dissipate so well, heating the cupboard,
causing the fridge interior to warm up faster so its thermostat clicks in
more often; or does it keep the cool in by double-insulating the fridge
making it more energy efficient?

I don't notice any particular cold or hot air when I open the door, but it
certainly keeps the noise in with the door shut!

Thanks for any advice.


Bad idea.
Fridges have to give out the heat they have taken from the food.
They do it most efficiently in a cold room. That's why you have to turn
them up in the summer.
--
Jim
Tyneside UK
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Blueyonder
 
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Default Keeping fridge in a cupboard - good or bad energy?


"john" wrote in message
...


My fridge is in a tight location and I have thought of fitting a small fan
somewhere to create a draught - something like the fan in the back of a PC
but a bit bigger.

Any thoughts?


Some built-ins have a fan anyway, usually quite a large, but slow one at the
front (to keep it quiet). It forces the air under the unit, around the back,
and then back out through grills at the top of the fridge. I guess it allows
smaller vents than otherwise to be used. The fan only comes on with the
compressor though.

So yes, it is definately done in commercial units.

-- JJ



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john
 
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Default Keeping fridge in a cupboard - good or bad energy?


advice.

Bad idea.
Fridges have to give out the heat they have taken from the food.
They do it most efficiently in a cold room. That's why you have to turn
them up in the summer.
--
Jim
Tyneside UK



Why should you need to turn up a thermostat in a different season? It works
by sensing the temperature inside the cabinet. A setting is the same all
year round.

Do you turn up your room thermostat when it snows? Or your oven on a cold
day?


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raden
 
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Default Keeping fridge in a cupboard - good or bad energy?

In message , john
writes

advice.

Bad idea.
Fridges have to give out the heat they have taken from the food.
They do it most efficiently in a cold room. That's why you have to turn
them up in the summer.
--
Jim
Tyneside UK



Why should you need to turn up a thermostat in a different season? It works
by sensing the temperature inside the cabinet. A setting is the same all
year round.

Do you turn up your room thermostat when it snows? Or your oven on a cold
day?

The bit about working best in a cold room's also not necessarily true

as has been discussed numerous times in here

.... not a post to take seriously

--
geoff


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Jim Scott
 
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Default Keeping fridge in a cupboard - good or bad energy?

On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 23:15:17 GMT, raden wrote:

In message , john
writes

advice.

Bad idea.
Fridges have to give out the heat they have taken from the food.
They do it most efficiently in a cold room. That's why you have to turn
them up in the summer.
--
Jim
Tyneside UK



Why should you need to turn up a thermostat in a different season? It works
by sensing the temperature inside the cabinet. A setting is the same all
year round.

Do you turn up your room thermostat when it snows? Or your oven on a cold
day?

The bit about working best in a cold room's also not necessarily true

as has been discussed numerous times in here

... not a post to take seriously


Learn some basic physics then come back with a sensible answer.
--
Jim
Tyneside UK
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raden
 
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Default Keeping fridge in a cupboard - good or bad energy?

In message , Jim Scott
writes
On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 23:15:17 GMT, raden wrote:

In message , john
writes

advice.

Bad idea.
Fridges have to give out the heat they have taken from the food.
They do it most efficiently in a cold room. That's why you have to turn
them up in the summer.
--
Jim
Tyneside UK


Why should you need to turn up a thermostat in a different season? It works
by sensing the temperature inside the cabinet. A setting is the same all
year round.

Do you turn up your room thermostat when it snows? Or your oven on a cold
day?

The bit about working best in a cold room's also not necessarily true

as has been discussed numerous times in here

... not a post to take seriously


Learn some basic physics then come back with a sensible answer.


I have a degree in physics

and it was a sensible answer

and what I said was true - fridges can fail if the ambient temperature
is too low, but since you don't seem to understand how a thermostat
works, It's not really explaining anything more complicated to you

I think you should go away and learn some applied physics and come back
when you have a clue




--
geoff
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Andy Hall
 
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Default Keeping fridge in a cupboard - good or bad energy?

On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 13:07:45 +0000, Huge wrote:

On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 12:37:39 +0000, Richard Marx wrote:

Hi, I have recently moved and have a large kitchen cupboard designed to
take a fridge, with a full-height wooden door on it (almost like entering
another room or broom cupboard). Is keeping the fridge in there with the
door shut a good thing or a bad thing, energy-consumption-wise?

I.e. does the fridge's heat not dissipate so well, heating the cupboard,
causing the fridge interior to warm up faster so its thermostat clicks in
more often; or does it keep the cool in by double-insulating the fridge
making it more energy efficient?

I don't notice any particular cold or hot air when I open the door, but it
certainly keeps the noise in with the door shut!

Thanks for any advice.


Built-in appliances have extensive ventilation to avoid the overheating
problem, so I would say that, Yes, your frig will likely use more energy
if sealed in a box.

(Isn't this one of Andy Hall's thermodynamics questions?)



Well, I was just going to suggest that he opens the fridge door
occasionally to cool down the cupboard...... :-)



--

..andy

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Jim Scott
 
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Default Keeping fridge in a cupboard - good or bad energy?

On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 00:44:44 GMT, raden wrote:

In message , Jim Scott
writes
On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 23:15:17 GMT, raden wrote:

In message , john
writes

advice.

Bad idea.
Fridges have to give out the heat they have taken from the food.
They do it most efficiently in a cold room. That's why you have to turn
them up in the summer.
--
Jim
Tyneside UK


Why should you need to turn up a thermostat in a different season? It works
by sensing the temperature inside the cabinet. A setting is the same all
year round.

Do you turn up your room thermostat when it snows? Or your oven on a cold
day?

The bit about working best in a cold room's also not necessarily true

as has been discussed numerous times in here

... not a post to take seriously


Learn some basic physics then come back with a sensible answer.


I have a degree in physics

and it was a sensible answer

and what I said was true - fridges can fail if the ambient temperature
is too low, but since you don't seem to understand how a thermostat
works, It's not really explaining anything more complicated to you

I think you should go away and learn some applied physics and come back
when you have a clue


Since I too have a degree in physics and 40 years teaching and examining
it, it is obvious you don't have any knowledge at all about heat engines
and thermodynamics laws.
The question of the cupboard has little to do with the internal thermostat.
It has everything to do with the temperature difference between the outer
heat sink and the temperature of the surroundings.
--
Jim
Tyneside UK
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Palindr˜»me
 
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Default Keeping fridge in a cupboard - good or bad energy?

Jim Scott wrote:
On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 00:44:44 GMT, raden wrote:


In message , Jim Scott
writes

On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 23:15:17 GMT, raden wrote:


In message , john
writes

advice.

Bad idea.
Fridges have to give out the heat they have taken from the food.
They do it most efficiently in a cold room. That's why you have to turn
them up in the summer.
--
Jim
Tyneside UK


Why should you need to turn up a thermostat in a different season? It works
by sensing the temperature inside the cabinet. A setting is the same all
year round.

Do you turn up your room thermostat when it snows? Or your oven on a cold
day?


The bit about working best in a cold room's also not necessarily true

as has been discussed numerous times in here

... not a post to take seriously

Learn some basic physics then come back with a sensible answer.


I have a degree in physics

and it was a sensible answer

and what I said was true - fridges can fail if the ambient temperature
is too low, but since you don't seem to understand how a thermostat
works, It's not really explaining anything more complicated to you

I think you should go away and learn some applied physics and come back
when you have a clue



Since I too have a degree in physics and 40 years teaching and examining
it, it is obvious you don't have any knowledge at all about heat engines
and thermodynamics laws.
The question of the cupboard has little to do with the internal thermostat.
It has everything to do with the temperature difference between the outer
heat sink and the temperature of the surroundings.



ISTM that there are/were fridges didn't perform well in cold conditions.

They have a single thermostat in the fridge rather then the freezer
section. If the ambient condtions are "too cold", then the fridge
doesn't have to run much, if at all, to get the thermostat to operate.
Great! Low electric bills! But it then doesn't run long enough to get
the freezer section down to low enough to keep things frozen.

Having the thermostat in the freezer section can also cause problems:

This is a control system which can have big lags. Take the situation
with the conventional situation of the thermostat being in the icebox.
The heat pump runs and lowers the temperature to the point that the
thermostat operates. These thermostats have hysteresis - so the
temperature at the thermostat will have to rise a few degrees before the
thermostat will operate again. Heat energy is being transferred into
the body of the fridge from the environment, mostly by conduction
through the case- the higher the temperature outside, the faster the
inside will warm up. Inside the fridge, heat has to transfer to the
icebox, and hence the thermostat, mostly by convection. Under certain
circumstances, eg when the ambient temperatures are high and the fridge
has poor insulation, the fridge section can rise to a relatively high
temperature much more quickly than the heat can be transferred to the
freezer section and raise that temperature to the point of operation of
the thermostat. Thus the stuff in the body of the fridge can "go off",
even though the stuff in the icebox is fine.

Turning the thermostat to a colder setting *will* help. Set low enough,
the temperature in the fridge section doesn't rise to dangerous levels
before the thermostat operates and the heat pumps starts again.

Putting the fridge in a cupboard can raise the ambient temperature.
Which increases the rate of heat flow through the walls of the fridge
into the main body. Which means the fridge section gets hotter faster.
Which can mean it can get to unsafe temperatures before enough heat can
be transferred bu convection inside the fridge to raise the freezer
section enough to operate the thermostat.

The outer heat sink is a different matter. It too mostly loses heat
energy through convection. In a restricted airflow situation, turning
the thermostat to a lower setting will increase the temperature of the
heatsink (simplifying things..) thus increasing the temperature
differential between it and the ambient air. More heat energy will
transfer. Which raises the ambient temperature - which increases the
heat flow back into the fridge body...which makes the heatpump work
more, which raises the heatsink temperature...

Thus the question of the internal thermostat has *everything* to do with
being in a cupboard - if the fridge has relatively poor insulation.

The question of the cupboard has little to do with the temperature
*difference* between the outer heat sink and the temperature of the
surroundings. It has a great deal to do with the actual temperature of
the outer heat sink and hence the actual temperature of the
surroundings, when hot air cannot escape to the infinite heatsink, known
as my kitchen in Winter....

--
Sue













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john
 
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Default Keeping fridge in a cupboard - good or bad energy?


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 13:07:45 +0000, Huge wrote:

On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 12:37:39 +0000, Richard Marx wrote:

Hi, I have recently moved and have a large kitchen cupboard designed to
take a fridge, with a full-height wooden door on it (almost like
entering
another room or broom cupboard). Is keeping the fridge in there with
the
door shut a good thing or a bad thing, energy-consumption-wise?

I.e. does the fridge's heat not dissipate so well, heating the cupboard,
causing the fridge interior to warm up faster so its thermostat clicks
in
more often; or does it keep the cool in by double-insulating the fridge
making it more energy efficient?

I don't notice any particular cold or hot air when I open the door, but
it
certainly keeps the noise in with the door shut!

Thanks for any advice.


Built-in appliances have extensive ventilation to avoid the overheating
problem, so I would say that, Yes, your frig will likely use more energy
if sealed in a box.

(Isn't this one of Andy Hall's thermodynamics questions?)



Well, I was just going to suggest that he opens the fridge door
occasionally to cool down the cupboard...... :-)



--

.andy


Some observations:

1. Fact - heat from the inside of the cabinet will get pumped to the
outside - this is how fridges work - old or new. Some additional heat will
be generated from the motor. Better insulation though will ensure less heat
enters through the cabinet.

2. The thermostat will switch on the motor when the temperature inside rises
above that which is it set. This has nothing to do with the temperature of
the room or the time of the year. It does not control the 'power' of the
chilling - merely the starting and stopping of the motor in response to heat
gains.

3 In a hot kitchen more heat will enter the fridge when the door is opened
and items put into the fridge will tend to be warmer - therefore the fridge
will work harder - but it does not require the thermostat to be altered. 5
Degrees is 5 degrees (or whatever, all the year round)

4. In a hot kitchen more heat will need to be dissipated from the back of
the fridge.



John


  #22   Report Post  
Posted to free.uk.diy.home,uk.d-i-y
raden
 
Posts: n/a
Default Keeping fridge in a cupboard - good or bad energy?

In message ,
?B?UGFsaW5kcuKYu21l?= writes
The bit about working best in a cold room's also not necessarily true

as has been discussed numerous times in here

... not a post to take seriously

Learn some basic physics then come back with a sensible answer.

I have a degree in physics

and it was a sensible answer

and what I said was true - fridges can fail if the ambient
temperature is too low, but since you don't seem to understand how a
thermostat works, It's not really explaining anything more
complicated to you

I think you should go away and learn some applied physics and come
back when you have a clue

Since I too have a degree in physics and 40 years teaching and
examining
it, it is obvious you don't have any knowledge at all about heat engines
and thermodynamics laws. The question of the cupboard has little to
do with the internal thermostat.
It has everything to do with the temperature difference between the outer
heat sink and the temperature of the surroundings.



ISTM that there are/were fridges didn't perform well in cold conditions.


Yes there was a thread about it some time ago

However, we're up against a professional academic here - with all the
theory, but a bit shaky in the real world

Those who can, do ....

as they say

--
geoff
  #23   Report Post  
Posted to free.uk.diy.home,uk.d-i-y
Pete C
 
Posts: n/a
Default Keeping fridge in a cupboard - good or bad energy?

On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 16:46:46 GMT, "john"
wrote:

My fridge is in a tight location and I have thought of fitting a small fan
somewhere to create a draught - something like the fan in the back of a PC
but a bit bigger.

Any thoughts?


Hi,

I've done this with 4 PC fans under my fridge running off a 3v-7v wall
wart.

cheers,
Pete.
  #24   Report Post  
Posted to free.uk.diy.home,uk.d-i-y
dave
 
Posts: n/a
Default Keeping fridge in a cupboard - good or bad energy?

Its a shame that all the man wanted to know was if it was a good thing
energy wise to have his fridge in the cupboard. Since non of us know the
size of his cupboard or what temperature the kitchen runs at, or if the
fridge has a freezer attached, if his house is heated, or what power his
fridge consumes or lots of other detail to do a rigorous PhD thesis on the
total energy balance in his house due to the addition of his fridge. I think
having an academic arguement is not within the spirit of this group and can
cause utter confusion to the questioner. I also have a degree in engineering
including thermodynamics, and would advise him as before that provided the
temperature in his cupboard is not noticeably warmer than elsewhere, to
leave the fridge where he likes it best, i.e. within the closed cupboard
where it's silent. The extra energy used in the Summer is probably balanced
by less in the Winter and probably makes sod all difference to his
Electricity Bill or the Ice Caps.

Dave

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message ,
?B?UGFsaW5kcuKYu21l?= writes
The bit about working best in a cold room's also not necessarily true

as has been discussed numerous times in here

... not a post to take seriously

Learn some basic physics then come back with a sensible answer.

I have a degree in physics

and it was a sensible answer

and what I said was true - fridges can fail if the ambient temperature
is too low, but since you don't seem to understand how a thermostat
works, It's not really explaining anything more complicated to you

I think you should go away and learn some applied physics and come back
when you have a clue
Since I too have a degree in physics and 40 years teaching and
examining
it, it is obvious you don't have any knowledge at all about heat engines
and thermodynamics laws. The question of the cupboard has little to do
with the internal thermostat.
It has everything to do with the temperature difference between the
outer
heat sink and the temperature of the surroundings.



ISTM that there are/were fridges didn't perform well in cold conditions.


Yes there was a thread about it some time ago

However, we're up against a professional academic here - with all the
theory, but a bit shaky in the real world

Those who can, do ....

as they say

--
geoff



  #25   Report Post  
Posted to free.uk.diy.home,uk.d-i-y
john
 
Posts: n/a
Default Keeping fridge in a cupboard - good or bad energy?


"dave" wrote in message
...
Its a shame that all the man wanted to know was if it was a good thing
energy wise to have his fridge in the cupboard. Since non of us know the
size of his cupboard or what temperature the kitchen runs at, or if the
fridge has a freezer attached, if his house is heated, or what power his
fridge consumes or lots of other detail to do a rigorous PhD thesis on the
total energy balance in his house due to the addition of his fridge. I
think having an academic arguement is not within the spirit of this group
and can cause utter confusion to the questioner. I also have a degree in
engineering including thermodynamics, and would advise him as before that
provided the temperature in his cupboard is not noticeably warmer than
elsewhere, to leave the fridge where he likes it best, i.e. within the
closed cupboard where it's silent. The extra energy used in the Summer is
probably balanced by less in the Winter and probably makes sod all
difference to his Electricity Bill or the Ice Caps.

Dave


Well that will shut us up

Well said.


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