60 amp single phase plug and sockets???
 

"Chris" wrote in message
.. .
I have installed a 60 amp capable single phese supply to my workshop to run
a TIG welder, and it terminates at a fused wall switch box. I need to have
2 power points off this, capable, in extremis, of supplying the welding
machine at its maximum load of 60 amps. What 3 pin plugs are available to
handle that sort of current? Would it be illegal to use 5 pin 3 phase
plugs
and sockets and share the live and neutral loads over 2 pins each? Cheers.

Illegal under what Law? How would anyone know unless you put a big sign on
your house!
I think what you suggest is a very sensible idea. It would also stop
anything else being used in the sockets. Go for it.

60 amp single phase plug and sockets???
 

I have installed a 60 amp capable single phese supply to my workshop to run
a TIG welder, and it terminates at a fused wall switch box. I need to have
2 power points off this, capable, in extremis, of supplying the welding
machine at its maximum load of 60 amps. What 3 pin plugs are available to
handle that sort of current? Would it be illegal to use 5 pin 3 phase plugs
and sockets and share the live and neutral loads over 2 pins each? Cheers.

60 amp single phase plug and sockets???
 

On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 18:01:53 GMT, "ron" wrote:


"Chris" wrote in message
. ..
I have installed a 60 amp capable single phese supply to my workshop to run
a TIG welder, and it terminates at a fused wall switch box. I need to have
2 power points off this, capable, in extremis, of supplying the welding
machine at its maximum load of 60 amps. What 3 pin plugs are available to
handle that sort of current? Would it be illegal to use 5 pin 3 phase
plugs
and sockets and share the live and neutral loads over 2 pins each? Cheers.

Illegal under what Law? How would anyone know unless you put a big sign on
your house!
I think what you suggest is a very sensible idea. It would also stop
anything else being used in the sockets. Go for it.


230V 63 amp (and even 125A) connectors are available, but expensive - I've seen them used for stage
lighting.
e.g.
Plug :
http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSear...=7162674&N=401
Socket :
http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSear...=7232482&N=401
The 3-phase 32A ones are probably cheaper as they are more common. Just make sure nobody ever takes
your welder near a real 415V 3-phase socket..!

60 amp single phase plug and sockets???
 

"Mike Harrison" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 18:01:53 GMT, "ron" wrote:


"Chris" wrote in message
. ..
I have installed a 60 amp capable single phese supply to my
workshop to run
a TIG welder, and it terminates at a fused wall switch box. I
need to have
2 power points off this, capable, in extremis, of supplying the
welding
machine at its maximum load of 60 amps. What 3 pin plugs are
available to
handle that sort of current? Would it be illegal to use 5 pin 3
phase
plugs
and sockets and share the live and neutral loads over 2 pins
each? Cheers.

Illegal under what Law? How would anyone know unless you put a big
sign on
your house!
I think what you suggest is a very sensible idea. It would also
stop
anything else being used in the sockets. Go for it.


230V 63 amp (and even 125A) connectors are available, but
expensive - I've seen them used for stage
lighting.
e.g.
Plug :

http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSear...=7162674&N=401
Socket :

http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSear...=7232482&N=401
The 3-phase 32A ones are probably cheaper as they are more common.
Just make sure nobody ever takes
your welder near a real 415V 3-phase socket..!



Personally I'd use a blue single phase 63 amp plug / socket so that
there is no confusion in future. See TLC

http://tinyurl.com/9fmpm

AWEM

60 amp single phase plug and sockets???
 

On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 18:01:53 GMT someone who may be "ron"
wrote this:-

I have installed a 60 amp capable single phese supply to my workshop to run
a TIG welder, and it terminates at a fused wall switch box. I need to have
2 power points off this, capable, in extremis, of supplying the welding
machine at its maximum load of 60 amps. What 3 pin plugs are available to
handle that sort of current?

I think what you suggest is a very sensible idea. It would also stop
anything else being used in the sockets. Go for it.

63A BS4343 sockets (now called EN 60309, but most people still
prefer to use the more memorable name BS4343) are the obvious
choice. These are available in 230V two pole and earth form, from a
good electrical supplier. No need to use the three phase (red
coloured) versions.

These need to be wired on individual radial circuits, so the
distribution board in the workshop is going to have at least four
ways, one for each socket circuit, one for BS1363 sockets and one
for lighting. It may also have ways for other circuits of course.

Unless the sub-main to the workshop is rated at at least 100A
discrimination between the BS4343 sockets and the rest of the
workshop is going to be difficult. That means that any fault on the
welder is likely to take out the lights as well, which is not good
design but many garages have similar design faults. An alternative
would be a separate supply for BS1363 sockets and lighting, with
separate boards in the workshop.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

60 amp single phase plug and sockets???
 

In article ,
Chris writes:
I have installed a 60 amp capable single phese supply to my workshop to run
a TIG welder, and it terminates at a fused wall switch box. I need to have
2 power points off this, capable, in extremis, of supplying the welding
machine at its maximum load of 60 amps. What 3 pin plugs are available to

Use a 63A EN60309 (née BS4343) connector, or wire the
welder in permanently.

handle that sort of current? Would it be illegal to use 5 pin 3 phase plugs
and sockets and share the live and neutral loads over 2 pins each? Cheers.

I suspect you could be prosecuted for manslaughter if
it killed someone. Furthermore, parallelling up pins
in a connector doesn't multiply up it's current carrying
capacity, so it may overheat and fail.

Note the mutual detrimental influence of such a welder
on a residential supply network could land you with an
order to disconnect it or have your supply cut off.

--
Andrew Gabriel

60 amp single phase plug and sockets???
 

In article ,
(Andrew Gabriel) writes:
In article ,
Chris writes:
I have installed a 60 amp capable single phese supply to my workshop to run
a TIG welder, and it terminates at a fused wall switch box. I need to have
2 power points off this, capable, in extremis, of supplying the welding
machine at its maximum load of 60 amps. What 3 pin plugs are available to

Just another thought -- is this 60A the welding current,
or the max supply current (for which it seems very high)?
A quick glace at a few web pages, and I can't see a single
phase TIG welder which draws more than 20A from the supply.

--
Andrew Gabriel

60 amp single phase plug and sockets???
 

"ron" wrote in message
...

"Chris" wrote in message
.. .
I have installed a 60 amp capable single phese supply to my workshop to
run
a TIG welder, and it terminates at a fused wall switch box. I need to
have
2 power points off this, capable, in extremis, of supplying the welding
machine at its maximum load of 60 amps. What 3 pin plugs are available to
handle that sort of current? Would it be illegal to use 5 pin 3 phase
plugs
and sockets and share the live and neutral loads over 2 pins each?
Cheers.

Illegal under what Law? How would anyone know unless you put a big sign
on your house!
I think what you suggest is a very sensible idea. It would also stop
anything else being used in the sockets. Go for it.



Just buy the correct ones!

http://www.mkelectric.co.uk/PDF/tech...MANDO_prod.pdf

Page 9 of the PDF file, item numbers
K9063 BLU, and K9274 BLU


Any electrical wholesaler should be able to order for you

60 amp single phase plug and sockets???
 

Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Just another thought -- is this 60A the welding current,
or the max supply current (for which it seems very high)?
A quick glace at a few web pages, and I can't see a single
phase TIG welder which draws more than 20A from the supply.

I was wondering that too. The larger welders I've come across have
tended to be 400 V, for connection across two phases of a 3-ph supply.

--
Andy

60 amp single phase plug and sockets???
 

On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 18:02:20 +0000, Chris wrote:

I need to have 2 power points off this, capable, in extremis, of
supplying the welding machine at its maximum load of 60 amps. What 3
pin plugs are available to handle that sort of current?

63A CEE?

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products...63slash3P.html
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products...63slash3S.html

Would it be illegal to use 5 pin 3 phase plugs and sockets and share
the live and neutral loads over 2 pins each?

Certainly against the regs and thus puts you on very thin ice should
anything go wrong.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

60 amp single phase plug and sockets???
 

ron wrote:

Illegal under what Law?

BS7671 for starters (now with legal force as it forms a part of the
building regs)

How would anyone know unless you put a big sign on
your house!

Your workshop bursting into flames perhaps?

I think what you suggest is a very sensible idea. It would also stop
anything else being used in the sockets. Go for it.

Unless they also had (genuinely required) 3ph connectors on them.

Hardwired or an appropriate single phase connector would be the way to go.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

60 amp single phase plug and sockets???
 

Would it be illegal to use 5 pin 3 phase plugs
and sockets and share the live and neutral loads over 2 pins each?

Don't parallel up connectors. The behaviour is not as you expect. Any
slightly poor connection causes extra current to go down the other
connection, causing overload, and in the worst case, fire. Use a proper 63A
plug/socket.

Christian.

60 amp single phase plug and sockets???
 

On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 18:02:20 +0000, Chris wrote:

I have installed a 60 amp capable single phese supply to my workshop to run
a TIG welder, and it terminates at a fused wall switch box. I need to have
2 power points off this, capable, in extremis, of supplying the welding
machine at its maximum load of 60 amps. What 3 pin plugs are available to
handle that sort of current? Would it be illegal to use 5 pin 3 phase plugs
and sockets and share the live and neutral loads over 2 pins each? Cheers.

I have just ordered the farnell 63 amp single phase plug amnd wall socket,
plus an extar plug and trailing socket to make up an extension lead. I have
limited 3 phase offa 10HP rotary phase convertor, so the chance would exist
for someone to connect single phase to 3 or vice versa if I tried to use my
existing stock of 3 phase connection stuff.... Not good, not worth the
risk. Thanks for all the detailed info and help guys!

Will I find multi strand 3 core flexible extension cable easily enough? The
styuff on the welder now is rubber sheathed, and unlike any flexible mains
cable i have come across before, this stuff is seriously hefty! OD over the
sheath must be 20mm. Thanks again,have a great Christmas and a healthy New
Year.

60 amp single phase plug and sockets???
 

On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 20:23:18 +0000, Andy Wade wrote:

Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Just another thought -- is this 60A the welding current,
or the max supply current (for which it seems very high)?
A quick glace at a few web pages, and I can't see a single
phase TIG welder which draws more than 20A from the supply.

I was wondering that too. The larger welders I've come across have
tended to be 400 V, for connection across two phases of a 3-ph supply.

I have a pic of the wiring info and load plate at
ftp://ftp.chriswilson.tv/mig It will run 3 phase across 2 phases, or via an
internal jumper, off a single phase 230 volt supply

60 amp single phase plug and sockets???
 

On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 20:23:18 +0000, Andy Wade wrote:

Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Just another thought -- is this 60A the welding current,
or the max supply current (for which it seems very high)?
A quick glace at a few web pages, and I can't see a single
phase TIG welder which draws more than 20A from the supply.

I was wondering that too. The larger welders I've come across have
tended to be 400 V, for connection across two phases of a 3-ph supply.

I have a pic of the wiring info and load plate at
ftp://ftp.chriswilson.tv/mig It will run 3 phase across 2 phases, or via an
internal jumper, off a single phase 230 volt supply

60 amp single phase plug and sockets???
 

Christian McArdle wrote:
Would it be illegal to use 5 pin 3 phase plugs
and sockets and share the live and neutral loads over 2 pins each?

Don't parallel up connectors. The behaviour is not as you expect. Any
slightly poor connection causes extra current to go down the other
connection, causing overload, and in the worst case, fire. Use a proper 63A
plug/socket.

The least worst case is where the connectors are seperately connected
to the load, via seperate cables, with substantial internal resistance,
so that the nominal cable resistance is maybe 10 times that of the socket
connection.
Failing this, seperately fusing the connectors works.
But it is poor safety practice for a number of other reasons.

60 amp single phase plug and sockets???
 

On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 21:39:11 +0000 someone who may be Owain
wrote this:-

These need to be wired on individual radial circuits,

IMHO it would be acceptable for the two sockets to share one circuit, as
it is unlikely that anything else but the OP's one welder would, or
could, be connected simultaneously.

It would be arguable that such a non-standard arrangement is
acceptable these particular circumstances. I might even argue it
myself if I was responsible for the installation.

However, saving one way on the garage board does nothing for the
discrimination problem.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

60 amp single phase plug and sockets???
 

Chris wrote:

I have a pic of the wiring info and load plate at
ftp://ftp.chriswilson.tv/mig It will run 3 phase across 2 phases, or via an
internal jumper, off a single phase 230 volt supply

Oh yes, and circuits too - interesting. That's certainly a serious
piece of welding equipment...

I suspect you'd have been OK sizing the supply based on the 60% duty
cycle ratings and a 40 A circuit would have been OK, but there's no harm
in a bit of over-engineering sometimes.

--
Andy

60 amp single phase plug and sockets???
 

Chris wrote:

Will I find multi strand 3 core flexible extension cable easily enough? The
styuff on the welder now is rubber sheathed, and unlike any flexible mains
cable i have come across before, this stuff is seriously hefty! OD over the
sheath must be 20mm.

Should be easily available from stage lighting suppliers
(www.aclighting.co.uk for example). Stonking great big cables designed
for temporary installations (and all the abuse that goes with them) are
standard in the industry.


Kim.