Electric Heaters
Morning All. I have a 2m X 6m UPVC conservatory with warmup under tile heating. Although this warms the floor well and takes the cold edge out of the room it isn't warm enough to keep the conservatory doors open into the house so it isn't getting much use during the winter. I would like to use a free standing heater on a timer so I can set it up to run at the same time as the central heating so the room is still part of the house (if you know what I mean). So I really would like to know which type of heater would be the cheapest to run. I have been leaning toward oil filled but I may be wrong am I ?
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Electric Heaters
It happens that Alec formulated :
Morning All. I have a 2m X 6m UPVC conservatory with warmup under tile heating. Although this warms the floor well and takes the cold edge out of the room it isn't warm enough to keep the conservatory doors open into the house so it isn't getting much use during the winter. I would like to use a free standing heater on a timer so I can set it up to run at the same time as the central heating so the room is still part of the house (if you know what I mean). So I really would like to know which type of heater would be the cheapest to run. I have been leaning toward oil filled but I may be wrong am I ? A 3Kw oil filled heater, or a 3kw fan heater, or a 3kw radiant heater will all cost exactly the same amount to run. -- Regards, Harry (M1BYT) (L) http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk |
Electric Heaters
"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message ... It happens that Alec formulated : Morning All. I have a 2m X 6m UPVC conservatory with warmup under tile heating. Although this warms the floor well and takes the cold edge out of the room it isn't warm enough to keep the conservatory doors open into the house so it isn't getting much use during the winter. I would like to use a free standing heater on a timer so I can set it up to run at the same time as the central heating so the room is still part of the house (if you know what I mean). So I really would like to know which type of heater would be the cheapest to run. I have been leaning toward oil filled but I may be wrong am I ? A 3Kw oil filled heater, or a 3kw fan heater, or a 3kw radiant heater will all cost exactly the same amount to run. If they are energised for the same length of time |
Electric Heaters
powerstation wrote:
"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message ... It happens that Alec formulated : Morning All. I have a 2m X 6m UPVC conservatory with warmup under tile heating. Although this warms the floor well and takes the cold edge out of the room it isn't warm enough to keep the conservatory doors open into the house so it isn't getting much use during the winter. I would like to use a free standing heater on a timer so I can set it up to run at the same time as the central heating so the room is still part of the house (if you know what I mean). So I really would like to know which type of heater would be the cheapest to run. I have been leaning toward oil filled but I may be wrong am I ? A 3Kw oil filled heater, or a 3kw fan heater, or a 3kw radiant heater will all cost exactly the same amount to run. If they are energised for the same length of time But the oil heater will need to be on for longer to bring the room up to a given temp, and will then give out that stored heat after switch off. Oil filled heaters are also the largest and highest purchase cost option. If youve got space outside, an area of silvered mylar film on a frame could get a lot of sunlight in there, and is a cheap but not that pretty way of solar heating to extend your season. If your conservatory is single glazed, secondary glazing could enable you to not need the extra heating. Roller blinds loaded with plastic film are a low cost tidy way to do this. Mylar is longer lived than polythene. NT |
Electric Heaters
A 3Kw oil filled heater, or a 3kw fan heater, or a 3kw radiant heater will all cost exactly the same amount to run. If they are energised for the same length of time But the oil heater will need to be on for longer to bring the room up to a given temp, and will then give out that stored heat after switch off. Oil filled heaters are also the largest and highest purchase cost option. My point exactly, the 3kw is the input rating, not the output. |
Electric Heaters
powerstation wrote:
A 3Kw oil filled heater, or a 3kw fan heater, or a 3kw radiant heater will all cost exactly the same amount to run. If they are energised for the same length of time But the oil heater will need to be on for longer to bring the room up to a given temp, and will then give out that stored heat after switch off. Oil filled heaters are also the largest and highest purchase cost option. My point exactly, the 3kw is the input rating, not the output. Yup. Theyre also the bulkiest. I think their advantage is theyre safe around kids, more so than fan heaters which can be blocked, or old radiant heaters that can be poked. And theyre silent, but so are convectors and (real) radiators. NT |
Electric Heaters
I have a 3kw oil heater made by Delonghi with a timer and an instant heat
button. I've had it for 2 years and have been pleased with it. It kicks out a lot of heat and is fairly quick to heat up a medium size kitchen. I've never had to have it on it's maximum setting even in the coldest of winters and the timer is handy. Mel. wrote in message oups.com... powerstation wrote: A 3Kw oil filled heater, or a 3kw fan heater, or a 3kw radiant heater will all cost exactly the same amount to run. If they are energised for the same length of time But the oil heater will need to be on for longer to bring the room up to a given temp, and will then give out that stored heat after switch off. Oil filled heaters are also the largest and highest purchase cost option. My point exactly, the 3kw is the input rating, not the output. Yup. Theyre also the bulkiest. I think their advantage is theyre safe around kids, more so than fan heaters which can be blocked, or old radiant heaters that can be poked. And theyre silent, but so are convectors and (real) radiators. NT |
Electric Heaters
In article ,
powerstation wrote: But the oil heater will need to be on for longer to bring the room up to a given temp, and will then give out that stored heat after switch off. Oil filled heaters are also the largest and highest purchase cost option. My point exactly, the 3kw is the input rating, not the output. They're near enough the same thing with electric heaters. -- *There are 3 kinds of people: those who can count & those who can't. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Electric Heaters
Alec wrote:
Morning All. I have a 2m X 6m UPVC conservatory with warmup under tile heating. Although this warms the floor well and takes the cold edge out of the room it isn't warm enough to keep the conservatory doors open into the house so it isn't getting much use during the winter. I would like to use a free standing heater on a timer so I can set it up to run at the same time as the central heating so the room is still part of the house (if you know what I mean). So I really would like to know which type of heater would be the cheapest to run. I have been leaning toward oil filled but I may be wrong am I ? -- Alec With electric heater the energy output is exactly the same as the energy input. If you feed, say, 3kW in as electricity you will get exactly 3kW out in some form of energy. Unlike oil, gas etc. there is no "wasted fuel" going up a flue. So, the only question is what sort of energy comes out? Those I can think of a 1) Heat - this is good as it's what you want (and it's generally what electricity is happiest turning into) you can assume that anything you can't otherwise account for ends up in heat. 2) Light - Most electric heaters give out a little light, if only in the "on" indicator. The indicator uses so little that you can ignore that. Most give out very little light for the element (have you ever tried to see by the light from a 2 or 3-bar fire?). Halogen heaters give off a reasonable amount, but this probably accounts for well under 5W. Also that light doesn't stay as light, when it is absorbed by surfaces in the room it gets converted to heat, so the only light that is actually wasted by a heater is the amount thag escapes through windows (quite a lot in a conservatory!) 3) Sound - a very tiny amount of energy is converted into sound, and this can really be ignored. 4) Movement - This could be in the form of some sort of rotation of the heater head (I've seen this on some halogen units) or movement of air by a fan heater. But again, this energy doesn't just "vanish", it gets converted into heat eventually (basically friction losses). So, 3kW electricity in gives as close to 3kW heat out that there is no point comparing. |
Electric Heaters
In article .com,
"Sadly" writes: With electric heater the energy output is exactly the same as the energy input. If you feed, say, 3kW in as electricity you will get exactly 3kW out in some form of energy. Unlike oil, gas etc. there is no "wasted fuel" going up a flue. Well there is, but it happens at the power station before the energy is delivered to you. You get under 40% of the energy, and some ~60% goes out the top of the chinmey and cooling towers. -- Andrew Gabriel |
Electric Heaters
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Electric Heaters
On 10 Dec 2005 08:54:02 -0800, Sadly wrote:
Alec wrote: Morning All. I have a 2m X 6m UPVC conservatory with warmup under tile heating. Although this warms the floor well and takes the cold edge out of the room it isn't warm enough to keep the conservatory doors open into the house so it isn't getting much use during the winter. I would like to use a free standing heater on a timer so I can set it up to run at the same time as the central heating so the room is still part of the house (if you know what I mean). So I really would like to know which type of heater would be the cheapest to run. I have been leaning toward oil filled but I may be wrong am I ? -- Alec With electric heater the energy output is exactly the same as the energy input. If you feed, say, 3kW in as electricity you will get exactly 3kW out in some form of energy. Unlike oil, gas etc. there is no "wasted fuel" going up a flue. So, the only question is what sort of energy comes out? Those I can think of a 1) Heat - this is good as it's what you want (and it's generally what electricity is happiest turning into) you can assume that anything you can't otherwise account for ends up in heat. 2) Light - Most electric heaters give out a little light, if only in the "on" indicator. The indicator uses so little that you can ignore that. Most give out very little light for the element (have you ever tried to see by the light from a 2 or 3-bar fire?). Halogen heaters give off a reasonable amount, but this probably accounts for well under 5W. Also that light doesn't stay as light, when it is absorbed by surfaces in the room it gets converted to heat, so the only light that is actually wasted by a heater is the amount thag escapes through windows (quite a lot in a conservatory!) 3) Sound - a very tiny amount of energy is converted into sound, and this can really be ignored. 4) Movement - This could be in the form of some sort of rotation of the heater head (I've seen this on some halogen units) or movement of air by a fan heater. But again, this energy doesn't just "vanish", it gets converted into heat eventually (basically friction losses). So, 3kW electricity in gives as close to 3kW heat out that there is no point comparing. You forgot te EM field radiated by the elements. Get your tinfoil hat on now! Probably at least as powerful as living 500 meters from an overhead power line :-) :-) |
Electric Heaters
Am constantly amazed by the nonsense, here and on other news groups, about
whether one type of electric heater is more 'efficient' than another! As several posters have said if several different heaters each consume say 3 kilowatts and you switch on/plug in any one of those heaters, so that it runs continuously for one hour, it will use (and cost you) 3 kilowatt hours (or 3 units) of electricity. Whether the heater turns that electricity into heat immediately and quickly with radiant heat coils that are and 'feel' warm or takes a longer time to slowly heat up a finned tank of oil that then slowly warms the air in a living area is a matter of convenience, the features of the heater etc. The various features of a heater such as a circulating fan or small indicator light use so little electricity that all 3 kilowatt heaters can be considered equal. The 'effectiveness' of different types of heater may be another matter. We use permanently wired with individual room/area thermostats, electric baseboard heaters mounted often on the inside of the exterior insulated wall of each room under a window. So they are self circulating air convection heaters; no fans. But in say our garage, we may for short term heat while working on a vehicle in winter, use a 3.5 Kw heater with a fan to direct the warm -area to here we are working on the vehicle etc. |
Electric Heaters
Terry wrote:
Am constantly amazed by the nonsense, here and on other news groups, about whether one type of electric heater is more 'efficient' than another! As several posters have said if several different heaters each consume say 3 kilowatts and you switch on/plug in any one of those heaters, so that it runs continuously for one hour, it will use (and cost you) 3 kilowatt hours (or 3 units) of electricity. Energy out vs energy in gives you 100% with radiant, convection, and fan. Energy out vs energy in gives you around 300% with a heat pump. If the OP will se significant use of the heating, this would be a far better bet. IRL though, total energy out / total energy in isnt the relevant figure of merit. What is more to the point is energy out when its wanted / energy in, and in this respect oil filled rads are the worst performers. They will also take longer to heat the room with the same power rating. Both because of thermal storage. NT |
Electric Heaters
So I really would like to know which type of heater would be the
cheapest to run. I have been leaning toward oil filled but I may be wrong am I ? Electric heaters are effectively 100% efficient at point of use. Therefore, all electric heaters, provided they are thermostatically controlled will cost the same amount to run. A 2kW will cost the same as a 3kW, provided it is able to maintain the desired temperature. A fan heater will cost the same as a convector. Personally, I quite convectors. These often have a boost fan if needed. However, they're usually plenty effective enough without it. They are much cheaper than oil filled rads and warm up much more quickly. Oil filled rads look good and are safer, as they shouldn't cause a fire if some muppet drapes wet clothes across them to dry. Christian. |
Electric Heaters
Christian McArdle wrote:
Electric heaters are effectively 100% efficient at point of use. A common myth... OK the efficiency is close to 100%, but power lost due to voltage drop in the wiring is often higher than people realise. The wiring regs allow up to 4% voltage drop, so /in extremis/ 4% of the energy you pay for may go to waste. It all depends on whether the heat from the cable can be counted as "useful." Example - take a 3 kW immersion heater fed via 20 m of 2.5 mm^2 cable. Assume Uo = 240 V, to reflect reality rather than nominal values. The resistance of the heater element will be 240^2/3000 = 19.2 ohms, and the loop resistance of the cable is about 0.3 ohm. The same current flows through both, so the fraction 0.3/19.2 of the metered power heats the cable - IOW the efficiency of heating the water is 98.5% not 100%, and about 45 watts is wasted heating the cable. -- Andy |
Electric Heaters
In article ,
Andy Wade wrote: Example - take a 3 kW immersion heater fed via 20 m of 2.5 mm^2 cable. I'd say that is unusually long. Have you been taking lessons from dribble? -- *Microsoft broke Volkswagen's record: They only made 21.4 million bugs. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Electric Heaters
Electric heaters are effectively 100% efficient at point of use.
A common myth... OK the efficiency is close to 100%, but power lost due to voltage drop in the wiring is often higher than people realise. The voltage drop in the wiring is not "at point of use", which is why I was careful to state as such when mentioning 100% efficiency. Christian. |
Electric Heaters
Example - take a 3 kW immersion heater fed via 20 m of 2.5 mm^2 cable.
I'd say that is unusually long. Have you been taking lessons from dribble? I doubt it is excessively long in many installations. Remember that it often has to take a circuitous route, and perhaps go up a storey or two. Indeed, a quick estimate on the length of my immersion heater cable is 18m. Christian. |
Electric Heaters
Christian McArdle wrote:
The voltage drop in the wiring is not "at point of use", which is why I was careful to state as such when mentioning 100% efficiency. OK - fair point, so long as it's understood that the "point of use" is not the same as the "point of metering." -- Andy |
Electric Heaters
The message
from "Christian McArdle" contains these words: Example - take a 3 kW immersion heater fed via 20 m of 2.5 mm^2 cable. I'd say that is unusually long. Have you been taking lessons from dribble? I doubt it is excessively long in many installations. Remember that it often has to take a circuitous route, and perhaps go up a storey or two. Indeed, a quick estimate on the length of my immersion heater cable is 18m. Ouch. Mine is no more than 22 feet at the most (plus the length of the flex). -- Roger Chapman |
Electric Heaters
In article ,
Christian McArdle wrote: Example - take a 3 kW immersion heater fed via 20 m of 2.5 mm^2 cable. I'd say that is unusually long. Have you been taking lessons from dribble? I doubt it is excessively long in many installations. Remember that it often has to take a circuitous route, and perhaps go up a storey or two. Indeed, a quick estimate on the length of my immersion heater cable is 18m. I make mine 4 metres. -- *Procrastinate now Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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