Victorian mid-terraced house, 10ft high ceilings, and 6 rooms in all,
including bathroom and kitchen. House is empty and being completely
renovated and because I can't always be there, all trades have their own
keys to come and go as they please so I don't know exactly how much time
people are spending on site, or when.

The house is being completely rewired and, although not part of the rewire,
as the sparky will already have floorboards up etc., etc., and I haven't got
the time or the energy to do it myself, I ask him to do some extra work and
run a TV aerial coax, a Cat5 cable for computers and a seperate Cat5 for
phone, from each of the four main rooms back to a central point (in this
case, that means under the stairs). I also ask him to cable up for 6 smoke
alarms (1 in each main room + hall and landing) and a heat alarm in the
kitchen.

I've provided the coax, the Cat5, the RJ45s etc., and will be doing the
terminations myself, and I've also provided the heat/smoke alarms. He has
provided 12 metal back boxes and the mains cabling (lets round it up to a
*very* generous 50 metres - in reality it's nowhere near that amount) for
the alarms (T&E from CU to first one then 3core&E for the interconnects).

Before the job started, sparky tells me he hires himself out at £100 a day -
fair enough, I said, and I have no qualms whatsoever regarding his main bill
for the rewire. But when he handed me the bill for the completed job
yesterday, he's charged £440 for the extra work. Now, allowing £40 for 12
back boxes and 50m of cable, that leaves £400 = 4 full 8-hour days = 32
hours!!! Surely it can't have taken that long???

I know that some of you will be saying that "£100 a day is cheap. I charge
£30 an hour so think yourself lucky" but that's not the point. The point
here is, should the work I've described take that long given that
floorboards are already up etc., etc., etc., or is he ripping me off for
this extra work?

TIA
Dave

In article ,
Dave Sharp wrote:
I know that some of you will be saying that "£100 a day is cheap. I
charge £30 an hour so think yourself lucky" but that's not the point.
The point here is, should the work I've described take that long given
that floorboards are already up etc., etc., etc., or is he ripping me
off for this extra work?

If the work was done correctly, the signal cables will have been kept
separate from any mains wiring involving creating new runs.

--
*Remember, no-one is listening until you fart.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

These eastern europeans are prone to adding 400 percent to extras, (must be
an e.e. to work for 100/day). Is he part P registered?, will he give you a
certificate to BS7671?
Jaymack
"Dave Sharp" wrote in message
...
Victorian mid-terraced house, 10ft high ceilings, and 6 rooms in all,
including bathroom and kitchen. House is empty and being completely
renovated and because I can't always be there, all trades have their own
keys to come and go as they please so I don't know exactly how much time
people are spending on site, or when.

The house is being completely rewired and, although not part of the
rewire,
as the sparky will already have floorboards up etc., etc., and I haven't
got
the time or the energy to do it myself, I ask him to do some extra work
and
run a TV aerial coax, a Cat5 cable for computers and a seperate Cat5 for
phone, from each of the four main rooms back to a central point (in this
case, that means under the stairs). I also ask him to cable up for 6 smoke
alarms (1 in each main room + hall and landing) and a heat alarm in the
kitchen.

I've provided the coax, the Cat5, the RJ45s etc., and will be doing the
terminations myself, and I've also provided the heat/smoke alarms. He has
provided 12 metal back boxes and the mains cabling (lets round it up to a
*very* generous 50 metres - in reality it's nowhere near that amount) for
the alarms (T&E from CU to first one then 3core&E for the interconnects).

Before the job started, sparky tells me he hires himself out at £100 a
day -
fair enough, I said, and I have no qualms whatsoever regarding his main
bill
for the rewire. But when he handed me the bill for the completed job
yesterday, he's charged £440 for the extra work. Now, allowing £40 for 12
back boxes and 50m of cable, that leaves £400 = 4 full 8-hour days = 32
hours!!! Surely it can't have taken that long???

I know that some of you will be saying that "£100 a day is cheap. I charge
£30 an hour so think yourself lucky" but that's not the point. The point
here is, should the work I've described take that long given that
floorboards are already up etc., etc., etc., or is he ripping me off for
this extra work?

TIA
Dave

"John McLean" wrote in message
...
These eastern europeans are prone to adding 400 percent to extras, (must
be
an e.e. to work for 100/day). Is he part P registered?, will he give you a
certificate to BS7671?
Jaymack

Not Part (taking the) P registered nor eastern european but building control
(electricians) came out to inspect at first fix and will come again to do
final testing and inspection.

But that is not the issue and it doesn't answer the question I asked.

Dave.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Dave Sharp wrote:
I know that some of you will be saying that "£100 a day is cheap. I
charge £30 an hour so think yourself lucky" but that's not the point.
The point here is, should the work I've described take that long given
that floorboards are already up etc., etc., etc., or is he ripping me
off for this extra work?

If the work was done correctly, the signal cables will have been kept
separate from any mains wiring involving creating new runs.

--
*Remember, no-one is listening until you fart.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Fair enough Dave, I can understand that. But if we allocate a full 8-hour
working day to running the cables for the heat/smoke alarms, that still
leaves 3 8-hour days to fit 12 back boxes and run a cable from each to a
central point under the stairs?

BTW, I know he uses an electric wall chaser and he has box sinker
attachments for his SDS drill so it's not like he's having to do these
things with a lump hammer and bolster.

Dave.

In article , Dave Sharp
writes

The house is being completely rewired and, although not part of the rewire,
as the sparky will already have floorboards up etc., etc., and I haven't got
the time or the energy to do it myself, I ask him to do some extra work and
run a TV aerial coax, a Cat5 cable for computers and a seperate Cat5 for
phone, from each of the four main rooms back to a central point (in this
case, that means under the stairs). I also ask him to cable up for 6 smoke
alarms (1 in each main room + hall and landing) and a heat alarm in the
kitchen.

I've provided the coax, the Cat5, the RJ45s etc., and will be doing the
terminations myself, and I've also provided the heat/smoke alarms. He has
provided 12 metal back boxes and the mains cabling (lets round it up to a
*very* generous 50 metres - in reality it's nowhere near that amount) for
the alarms (T&E from CU to first one then 3core&E for the interconnects).

Before the job started, sparky tells me he hires himself out at £100 a day -
fair enough, I said, and I have no qualms whatsoever regarding his main bill
for the rewire. But when he handed me the bill for the completed job
yesterday, he's charged £440 for the extra work. Now, allowing £40 for 12
back boxes and 50m of cable, that leaves £400 = 4 full 8-hour days = 32
hours!!! Surely it can't have taken that long???


I think that's ok.

--
fred
Plusnet - I hope you like vanilla

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Dave Sharp wrote:


The house is being completely rewired and, although not part of the
rewire, as the sparky will already have floorboards up etc., etc.,
and I haven't got the time or the energy to do it myself, I ask him
to do some extra work and run a TV aerial coax, a Cat5 cable for
computers and a seperate Cat5 for phone, from each of the four main
rooms back to a central point (in this case, that means under the
stairs). I also ask him to cable up for 6 smoke alarms (1 in each
main room + hall and landing) and a heat alarm in the kitchen.

When he handed me the
bill for the completed job yesterday, he's charged £440 for the extra
work.

Is he ripping me off for this extra work?

TIA
Dave

Dunno, but I bet that - next time - you'll get a quote *before* authorising
extra work!
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

Dave Sharp wrote:
Victorian mid-terraced house, 10ft high ceilings, and 6 rooms in all,
including bathroom and kitchen. House is empty and being completely
renovated and because I can't always be there, all trades have their
own keys to come and go as they please so I don't know exactly how
much time people are spending on site, or when.

The house is being completely rewired and, although not part of the
rewire, as the sparky will already have floorboards up etc., etc.,
and I haven't got the time or the energy to do it myself, I ask him
to do some extra work and run a TV aerial coax, a Cat5 cable for
computers and a seperate Cat5 for phone, from each of the four main
rooms back to a central point (in this case, that means under the
stairs). I also ask him to cable up for 6 smoke alarms (1 in each
main room + hall and landing) and a heat alarm in the kitchen.

I've provided the coax, the Cat5, the RJ45s etc., and will be doing
the terminations myself, and I've also provided the heat/smoke
alarms. He has provided 12 metal back boxes and the mains cabling
(lets round it up to a *very* generous 50 metres - in reality it's
nowhere near that amount) for the alarms (T&E from CU to first one
then 3core&E for the interconnects).

Before the job started, sparky tells me he hires himself out at £100
a day - fair enough, I said, and I have no qualms whatsoever
regarding his main bill for the rewire. But when he handed me the
bill for the completed job yesterday, he's charged £440 for the extra
work. Now, allowing £40 for 12 back boxes and 50m of cable, that
leaves £400 = 4 full 8-hour days = 32 hours!!! Surely it can't have
taken that long???

I know that some of you will be saying that "£100 a day is cheap. I
charge £30 an hour so think yourself lucky" but that's not the point.
The point here is, should the work I've described take that long
given that floorboards are already up etc., etc., etc., or is he
ripping me off for this extra work?

TIA
Dave

Try hiring Manweb next time...you'll soon see who's ripping you off.
--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

"Dave Sharp" wrote in message
...
Victorian mid-terraced house, 10ft high ceilings, and 6 rooms in all,
including bathroom and kitchen. House is empty and being completely
renovated and because I can't always be there, all trades have their own
keys to come and go as they please so I don't know exactly how much time
people are spending on site, or when.

The house is being completely rewired and, although not part of the
rewire,
as the sparky will already have floorboards up etc., etc., and I haven't
got
the time or the energy to do it myself, I ask him to do some extra work
and
run a TV aerial coax, a Cat5 cable for computers and a seperate Cat5 for
phone, from each of the four main rooms back to a central point (in this
case, that means under the stairs). I also ask him to cable up for 6 smoke
alarms (1 in each main room + hall and landing) and a heat alarm in the
kitchen.

I've provided the coax, the Cat5, the RJ45s etc., and will be doing the
terminations myself, and I've also provided the heat/smoke alarms. He has
provided 12 metal back boxes and the mains cabling (lets round it up to a
*very* generous 50 metres - in reality it's nowhere near that amount) for
the alarms (T&E from CU to first one then 3core&E for the interconnects).

Before the job started, sparky tells me he hires himself out at £100 a
day -
fair enough, I said, and I have no qualms whatsoever regarding his main
bill
for the rewire. But when he handed me the bill for the completed job
yesterday, he's charged £440 for the extra work. Now, allowing £40 for 12
back boxes and 50m of cable, that leaves £400 = 4 full 8-hour days = 32
hours!!! Surely it can't have taken that long???

I know that some of you will be saying that "£100 a day is cheap. I charge
£30 an hour so think yourself lucky" but that's not the point. The point
here is, should the work I've described take that long given that
floorboards are already up etc., etc., etc., or is he ripping me off for
this extra work?

TIA
Dave



Dave,
I reckon there's more than one way of looking at it.
Firstly, and not aswering your question, you should have asked how much
extra, beforehand, so it's a lesson learned.
Electricians tend to set a price according to how many points (sockets)-
irrespective of how easy or difficult the job will be, maybe that's what
he's done - neglecting to take into account that all the hard graft has been
done - having said that it doesn't tally with his £100 per day claim.

Imagine you got in a different electrician for this extra work only - I
believe that price is probably realistic for that number of 'points'
installed.
Perhaps he underquoted a bit on the main job in order to get it , and priced
up the extra accordingly. A bit like a restaurant - bread and butter is the
food (er, ignore the pun) the money is made on the extras, drinks and
desserts etc. all grossly over-priced.

Have you confronted him? How about ' I think your charge for the extras is a
bit steep, are you prepared to drop it by a hundred?'

How much was the original mains re-wire by the way?
I don't think you should look at the extra work as how easy it was for him,
but rather whether you are happy with the work, and what you may be charged
by someone else doing that job alone - I'm fairly sure it would be around
that or more - unless you are in the trade - I'd expect to pay around
£800-900 for a full re-wire of a 3 bedroom house, at a guess £2000 is a more
realistic 'retail' price.

Hugh
ps hope that makes you feel a bit better!!

"Hugh" wrote in message
...

"Dave Sharp" wrote in message
...
Victorian mid-terraced house, 10ft high ceilings, and 6 rooms in all,
including bathroom and kitchen. House is empty and being completely
renovated and because I can't always be there, all trades have their own
keys to come and go as they please so I don't know exactly how much time
people are spending on site, or when.

The house is being completely rewired and, although not part of the
rewire,
as the sparky will already have floorboards up etc., etc., and I haven't
got
the time or the energy to do it myself, I ask him to do some extra work
and
run a TV aerial coax, a Cat5 cable for computers and a seperate Cat5 for
phone, from each of the four main rooms back to a central point (in this
case, that means under the stairs). I also ask him to cable up for 6
smoke
alarms (1 in each main room + hall and landing) and a heat alarm in the
kitchen.

I've provided the coax, the Cat5, the RJ45s etc., and will be doing the
terminations myself, and I've also provided the heat/smoke alarms. He
has
provided 12 metal back boxes and the mains cabling (lets round it up to
a
*very* generous 50 metres - in reality it's nowhere near that amount)
for
the alarms (T&E from CU to first one then 3core&E for the
interconnects).

Before the job started, sparky tells me he hires himself out at £100 a
day -
fair enough, I said, and I have no qualms whatsoever regarding his main
bill
for the rewire. But when he handed me the bill for the completed job
yesterday, he's charged £440 for the extra work. Now, allowing £40 for
12
back boxes and 50m of cable, that leaves £400 = 4 full 8-hour days = 32
hours!!! Surely it can't have taken that long???

I know that some of you will be saying that "£100 a day is cheap. I
charge
£30 an hour so think yourself lucky" but that's not the point. The point
here is, should the work I've described take that long given that
floorboards are already up etc., etc., etc., or is he ripping me off for
this extra work?

TIA
Dave



Dave,
I reckon there's more than one way of looking at it.
Firstly, and not aswering your question, you should have asked how much
extra, beforehand, so it's a lesson learned.
Electricians tend to set a price according to how many points (sockets)-
irrespective of how easy or difficult the job will be, maybe that's what
he's done - neglecting to take into account that all the hard graft has
been
done - having said that it doesn't tally with his £100 per day claim.

Imagine you got in a different electrician for this extra work only - I
believe that price is probably realistic for that number of 'points'
installed.
Perhaps he underquoted a bit on the main job in order to get it , and
priced
up the extra accordingly. A bit like a restaurant - bread and butter is
the
food (er, ignore the pun) the money is made on the extras, drinks and
desserts etc. all grossly over-priced.

Have you confronted him? How about ' I think your charge for the extras is
a
bit steep, are you prepared to drop it by a hundred?'

How much was the original mains re-wire by the way?
I don't think you should look at the extra work as how easy it was for
him,
but rather whether you are happy with the work, and what you may be
charged
by someone else doing that job alone - I'm fairly sure it would be around
that or more - unless you are in the trade - I'd expect to pay around
£800-900 for a full re-wire of a 3 bedroom house, at a guess £2000 is a
more
realistic 'retail' price.

Hugh
ps hope that makes you feel a bit better!!



Without the "spurs", a full rewire cost depends on the locality, for a 3 bed
probably a minimum of 2500, if done to BS7671 with certification. To install
a modern cu with mcb's and rcd on it's own would cost 350 minimum.
Jaymack

"Set Square" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Dave Sharp wrote:


The house is being completely rewired and, although not part of the
rewire, as the sparky will already have floorboards up etc., etc.,
and I haven't got the time or the energy to do it myself, I ask him
to do some extra work and run a TV aerial coax, a Cat5 cable for
computers and a seperate Cat5 for phone, from each of the four main
rooms back to a central point (in this case, that means under the
stairs). I also ask him to cable up for 6 smoke alarms (1 in each
main room + hall and landing) and a heat alarm in the kitchen.

When he handed me the
bill for the completed job yesterday, he's charged £440 for the extra
work.

Is he ripping me off for this extra work?

TIA
Dave

Dunno, but I bet that - next time - you'll get a quote *before*
authorising
extra work!
--
Cheers,
Set Square

Although I said the work was "extra" to the main rewire, he knew about it
right at the beginning before ever starting work in the house - I didn't add
it on after. He said he would work for £100/day no matter what I wanted
doing.

Dave.

"The3rd Earl Of Derby" wrote in message
o.uk...
Dave Sharp wrote:
Victorian mid-terraced house, 10ft high ceilings, and 6 rooms in all,
including bathroom and kitchen. House is empty and being completely
renovated and because I can't always be there, all trades have their
own keys to come and go as they please so I don't know exactly how
much time people are spending on site, or when.

The house is being completely rewired and, although not part of the
rewire, as the sparky will already have floorboards up etc., etc.,
and I haven't got the time or the energy to do it myself, I ask him
to do some extra work and run a TV aerial coax, a Cat5 cable for
computers and a seperate Cat5 for phone, from each of the four main
rooms back to a central point (in this case, that means under the
stairs). I also ask him to cable up for 6 smoke alarms (1 in each
main room + hall and landing) and a heat alarm in the kitchen.

I've provided the coax, the Cat5, the RJ45s etc., and will be doing
the terminations myself, and I've also provided the heat/smoke
alarms. He has provided 12 metal back boxes and the mains cabling
(lets round it up to a *very* generous 50 metres - in reality it's
nowhere near that amount) for the alarms (T&E from CU to first one
then 3core&E for the interconnects).

Before the job started, sparky tells me he hires himself out at £100
a day - fair enough, I said, and I have no qualms whatsoever
regarding his main bill for the rewire. But when he handed me the
bill for the completed job yesterday, he's charged £440 for the extra
work. Now, allowing £40 for 12 back boxes and 50m of cable, that
leaves £400 = 4 full 8-hour days = 32 hours!!! Surely it can't have
taken that long???

I know that some of you will be saying that "£100 a day is cheap. I
charge £30 an hour so think yourself lucky" but that's not the point.
The point here is, should the work I've described take that long
given that floorboards are already up etc., etc., etc., or is he
ripping me off for this extra work?

TIA
Dave

Try hiring Manweb next time...you'll soon see who's ripping you off.
--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

Dear Sir Benjamin, it doesn't matter in the slightest what Manweb charge. I
asked him how much he would charge for rewiring the house and the extra work
as well and he said that he would do it for £100/day - all of it. I didn't
force him to work for £100/day - it was his suggestion and he stuck to it.

All I need to know is, would it honestly take 32 hours ie, 4 full 8-hour
working days to fit 12 back boxes, run a cable from each box to a central
point under the stairs and to cable for the heat/smoke alarms, considering
that the floorboards were already up and he uses such labour-saving devices
as an electric wall chaser and a box-sinker attachment on his SDS drill?

Dave.

Dave Sharp wrote:
"Set Square" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Dave Sharp wrote:


The house is being completely rewired and, although not part of the
rewire, as the sparky will already have floorboards up etc., etc.,
and I haven't got the time or the energy to do it myself, I ask him
to do some extra work and run a TV aerial coax, a Cat5 cable for
computers and a seperate Cat5 for phone, from each of the four main
rooms back to a central point (in this case, that means under the
stairs). I also ask him to cable up for 6 smoke alarms (1 in each
main room + hall and landing) and a heat alarm in the kitchen.

When he handed me the
bill for the completed job yesterday, he's charged £440 for the
extra work.

Is he ripping me off for this extra work?

TIA
Dave

Dunno, but I bet that - next time - you'll get a quote *before*
authorising
extra work!
--
Cheers,
Set Square

Although I said the work was "extra" to the main rewire, he knew
about it right at the beginning before ever starting work in the
house - I didn't add it on after. He said he would work for £100/day
no matter what I wanted doing.

Dave.

He worked for a £100 a day, how much did he charge for the rewire materials
i.e cable,CU, ect? did he do a second fix?
First fix usually takes 2 days, second fix about the same, where not
getting all the info here.

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

"Hugh" wrote in message
...

"Dave Sharp" wrote in message
...
Victorian mid-terraced house, 10ft high ceilings, and 6 rooms in all,
including bathroom and kitchen. House is empty and being completely
renovated and because I can't always be there, all trades have their own
keys to come and go as they please so I don't know exactly how much time
people are spending on site, or when.

The house is being completely rewired and, although not part of the
rewire,
as the sparky will already have floorboards up etc., etc., and I haven't
got
the time or the energy to do it myself, I ask him to do some extra work
and
run a TV aerial coax, a Cat5 cable for computers and a seperate Cat5 for
phone, from each of the four main rooms back to a central point (in this
case, that means under the stairs). I also ask him to cable up for 6
smoke
alarms (1 in each main room + hall and landing) and a heat alarm in the
kitchen.

I've provided the coax, the Cat5, the RJ45s etc., and will be doing the
terminations myself, and I've also provided the heat/smoke alarms. He has
provided 12 metal back boxes and the mains cabling (lets round it up to a
*very* generous 50 metres - in reality it's nowhere near that amount) for
the alarms (T&E from CU to first one then 3core&E for the interconnects).

Before the job started, sparky tells me he hires himself out at £100 a
day -
fair enough, I said, and I have no qualms whatsoever regarding his main
bill
for the rewire. But when he handed me the bill for the completed job
yesterday, he's charged £440 for the extra work. Now, allowing £40 for 12
back boxes and 50m of cable, that leaves £400 = 4 full 8-hour days = 32
hours!!! Surely it can't have taken that long???

I know that some of you will be saying that "£100 a day is cheap. I
charge £30 an hour so think yourself lucky" but that's not the point. The
point here is, should the work I've described take that long given that
floorboards are already up etc., etc., etc., or is he ripping me off for
this extra work?

TIA
Dave


Dave,
I reckon there's more than one way of looking at it.
Firstly, and not aswering your question, you should have asked how much
extra, beforehand, so it's a lesson learned.

Although I said the work was "extra" to the main rewire, he knew about it
right at the beginning before ever starting work in the house - I didn't add
it on after. He said he would work for £100/day no matter what I wanted
doing.

Electricians tend to set a price according to how many points (sockets)-
irrespective of how easy or difficult the job will be, maybe that's what
he's done - neglecting to take into account that all the hard graft has
been done - having said that it doesn't tally with his £100 per day claim.

Imagine you got in a different electrician for this extra work only - I
believe that price is probably realistic for that number of 'points'
installed.
Perhaps he underquoted a bit on the main job in order to get it , and
priced up the extra accordingly. A bit like a restaurant - bread and
butter is the food (er, ignore the pun) the money is made on the extras,
drinks and desserts etc. all grossly over-priced.

Have you confronted him? How about ' I think your charge for the extras is
a bit steep, are you prepared to drop it by a hundred?'

I'm going to see him tonight to discuss it with him but I just thought I'd
see what you people here thought first.

How much was the original mains re-wire by the way?

£2100

I don't think you should look at the extra work as how easy it was for
him, but rather whether you are happy with the work, and what you may be
charged by someone else doing that job alone - I'm fairly sure it would be
around that or more - unless you are in the trade - I'd expect to pay
around £800-900 for a full re-wire of a 3 bedroom house, at a guess £2000
is a more realistic 'retail' price.

Hugh
ps hope that makes you feel a bit better!!

I can see your point Hugh and yes, someone else would probably charge me
more but I don't really see that is relevant. He, not me, said that he would
do everything including the extra for £100/day and I just don't see that
cabling for the heat/smoke alarms, fitting 12 back boxes and running a cable
from each of them to a central point under the stairs, should take
approximately 32 hours of labour.

Dave.

"The3rd Earl Of Derby" wrote in message
o.uk...
Dave Sharp wrote:
"Set Square" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Dave Sharp wrote:


snipped

He worked for a £100 a day, how much did he charge for the rewire
materials
i.e cable,CU, ect? did he do a second fix?
First fix usually takes 2 days, second fix about the same, where not
getting all the info here.

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

As I said in my original post - because I can't always be there, all trades
have their own
keys to come and go as they please so I don't know exactly how much time
people are spending on site, or when. He's been using this as a hospital job
and so has been coming and going as and when over the last 3 months.

His bill of £2100 for the main rewire is not itemised so I don't know how
much he spent on materials, and yes, he's done the second fix. I'm just
about to contact building control to come and do the final test and
inspection.

Dave.

In article , John McLean
wrote:

will he give you a
certificate to BS7671?

Will you post the right way up and trim to contxt?


--
AJL

Dave Sharp wrote:
"The3rd Earl Of Derby" wrote in message
o.uk...

Dave Sharp wrote:

"Set Square" wrote in message
...

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Dave Sharp wrote:


snipped


He worked for a £100 a day, how much did he charge for the rewire
materials
i.e cable,CU, ect? did he do a second fix?
First fix usually takes 2 days, second fix about the same, where not
getting all the info here.

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite


As I said in my original post - because I can't always be there, all trades
have their own
keys to come and go as they please so I don't know exactly how much time
people are spending on site, or when. He's been using this as a hospital job
and so has been coming and going as and when over the last 3 months.

I think that is your problem in this situation. No one was around to
monitor his working, so you have no idea whether he's been on site for 1
day, or 100 days. It could be he's fully aware of that, and taken
advantage somewhat - or he's rounded up. £100 per day or part day.
Turns up for an hour or two in the morning and bills the £100. He may
also have worked out the average price for that sort of work, and then
just billed for the amount of days which would cover that price.

I've no experience at doing this sort of this - but I would probably
have monitored the workings of the contractors, unless I had a previous
experience of them and knew they were trustworthy - but then I'm a
suspicious person by nature!

D

"David Hearn" wrote in message
...
Dave Sharp wrote:
"The3rd Earl Of Derby" wrote in message
o.uk...

Dave Sharp wrote:

"Set Square" wrote in message
...

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Dave Sharp wrote:


snipped


He worked for a £100 a day, how much did he charge for the rewire
materials
i.e cable,CU, ect? did he do a second fix?
First fix usually takes 2 days, second fix about the same, where not
getting all the info here.

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite


As I said in my original post - because I can't always be there, all
trades have their own
keys to come and go as they please so I don't know exactly how much time
people are spending on site, or when. He's been using this as a hospital
job and so has been coming and going as and when over the last 3 months.

I think that is your problem in this situation. No one was around to
monitor his working, so you have no idea whether he's been on site for 1
day, or 100 days. It could be he's fully aware of that, and taken
advantage somewhat - or he's rounded up. £100 per day or part day. Turns
up for an hour or two in the morning and bills the £100. He may also have
worked out the average price for that sort of work, and then just billed
for the amount of days which would cover that price.

I've no experience at doing this sort of this - but I would probably have
monitored the workings of the contractors, unless I had a previous
experience of them and knew they were trustworthy - but then I'm a
suspicious person by nature!

D

You may well be right there David. It's a lesson learned and if I ever do
all this again I'll try to do it better, although I'll still be governed by
the laws of physics - can't be in two places at the same time )

Dave

In message , Dave Sharp
writes

"David Hearn" wrote in message
...

I've no experience at doing this sort of this - but I would probably have
monitored the workings of the contractors, unless I had a previous
experience of them and knew they were trustworthy - but then I'm a
suspicious person by nature!

D

You may well be right there David. It's a lesson learned and if I ever do
all this again I'll try to do it better, although I'll still be governed by
the laws of physics - can't be in two places at the same time )


As a general rule I think a fixed price for the job is better approach
than a daily rate.

1. there is no incentive for them to 'drag it out'

2. you don't have the problem of monitoring daily

3. It makes budget control easier

4.
--
Chris French

Dave Sharp wrote:
"David Hearn" wrote in message
...

Dave Sharp wrote:

"The3rd Earl Of Derby" wrote in message
r.co.uk...


Dave Sharp wrote:


"Set Square" wrote in message
...


In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Dave Sharp wrote:



snipped


He worked for a £100 a day, how much did he charge for the rewire
materials
i.e cable,CU, ect? did he do a second fix?
First fix usually takes 2 days, second fix about the same, where not
getting all the info here.

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite


As I said in my original post - because I can't always be there, all
trades have their own
keys to come and go as they please so I don't know exactly how much time
people are spending on site, or when. He's been using this as a hospital
job and so has been coming and going as and when over the last 3 months.

I think that is your problem in this situation. No one was around to
monitor his working, so you have no idea whether he's been on site for 1
day, or 100 days. It could be he's fully aware of that, and taken
advantage somewhat - or he's rounded up. £100 per day or part day. Turns
up for an hour or two in the morning and bills the £100. He may also have
worked out the average price for that sort of work, and then just billed
for the amount of days which would cover that price.

I've no experience at doing this sort of this - but I would probably have
monitored the workings of the contractors, unless I had a previous
experience of them and knew they were trustworthy - but then I'm a
suspicious person by nature!

D


You may well be right there David. It's a lesson learned and if I ever do
all this again I'll try to do it better, although I'll still be governed by
the laws of physics - can't be in two places at the same time )

Dave

But remember - a cowboy CAN defy the laws of physics - he can be in 2
places at once (unsupervised) and bill both customers for the same day's
(lack of) work.

D

Dave Sharp wrote:

Victorian mid-terraced house, 10ft high ceilings, and 6 rooms in all,
including bathroom and kitchen. House is empty and being completely
renovated and because I can't always be there, all trades have their own
keys to come and go as they please so I don't know exactly how much time
people are spending on site, or when.

The house is being completely rewired and, although not part of the rewire,
as the sparky will already have floorboards up etc., etc., and I haven't got
the time or the energy to do it myself, I ask him to do some extra work and
run a TV aerial coax, a Cat5 cable for computers and a seperate Cat5 for
phone, from each of the four main rooms back to a central point (in this
case, that means under the stairs). I also ask him to cable up for 6 smoke
alarms (1 in each main room + hall and landing) and a heat alarm in the
kitchen.

I've provided the coax, the Cat5, the RJ45s etc., and will be doing the
terminations myself, and I've also provided the heat/smoke alarms. He has
provided 12 metal back boxes and the mains cabling (lets round it up to a
*very* generous 50 metres - in reality it's nowhere near that amount) for
the alarms (T&E from CU to first one then 3core&E for the interconnects).

Before the job started, sparky tells me he hires himself out at £100 a day -
fair enough, I said, and I have no qualms whatsoever regarding his main bill
for the rewire. But when he handed me the bill for the completed job
yesterday, he's charged £440 for the extra work. Now, allowing £40 for 12
back boxes and 50m of cable, that leaves £400 = 4 full 8-hour days = 32
hours!!! Surely it can't have taken that long???

I know that some of you will be saying that "£100 a day is cheap. I charge
£30 an hour so think yourself lucky" but that's not the point. The point
here is, should the work I've described take that long given that
floorboards are already up etc., etc., etc., or is he ripping me off for
this extra work?

I would say if he was working alone, quite probably it would.

Laying cables takes a heck of a sight more time than you might think.


TIA
Dave

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Dave Sharp wrote:

Victorian mid-terraced house, 10ft high ceilings, and 6 rooms in all,
including bathroom and kitchen. House is empty and being completely
renovated and because I can't always be there, all trades have their own
keys to come and go as they please so I don't know exactly how much time
people are spending on site, or when.

The house is being completely rewired and, although not part of the rewire,
as the sparky will already have floorboards up etc., etc., and I haven't got
the time or the energy to do it myself, I ask him to do some extra workand
run a TV aerial coax, a Cat5 cable for computers and a seperate Cat5 for
phone, from each of the four main rooms back to a central point (in this
case, that means under the stairs). I also ask him to cable up for 6 smoke
alarms (1 in each main room + hall and landing) and a heat alarm in the
kitchen.

I've provided the coax, the Cat5, the RJ45s etc., and will be doing the
terminations myself, and I've also provided the heat/smoke alarms. He has
provided 12 metal back boxes and the mains cabling (lets round it up toa
*very* generous 50 metres - in reality it's nowhere near that amount) for
the alarms (T&E from CU to first one then 3core&E for the interconnects).

Before the job started, sparky tells me he hires himself out at £100 a day -
fair enough, I said, and I have no qualms whatsoever regarding his mainbill
for the rewire. But when he handed me the bill for the completed job
yesterday, he's charged £440 for the extra work. Now, allowing £40 for 12
back boxes and 50m of cable, that leaves £400 = 4 full 8-hour days = 32
hours!!! Surely it can't have taken that long???

I know that some of you will be saying that "£100 a day is cheap. I charge
£30 an hour so think yourself lucky" but that's not the point. The point
here is, should the work I've described take that long given that
floorboards are already up etc., etc., etc., or is he ripping me off for
this extra work?

I would say if he was working alone, quite probably it would.

Laying cables takes a heck of a sight more time than you might think.


It can be tedious wiring as a DIY'er, not sure how long it takes the
professionals. I spend most of the time working out the routing. Sod's
Law says that once you've made a decision to route one way you'll find
there was a far easier way of doing it later.

To the OP, the amount seems reasonable given what he charged for the
re-wire. Providing he did not run the cat5 and co-ax through the same
runs as the mains cable.
As said, lesson learnt. Always get the job priced first.

In message , Dave Sharp
writes
Dear Sir Benjamin, it doesn't matter in the slightest what Manweb
charge. I asked him how much he would charge for rewiring the house and
the extra work as well and he said that he would do it for £100/day -
all of it. I didn't force him to work for £100/day - it was his
suggestion and he stuck to it.

All I need to know is, would it honestly take 32 hours ie, 4 full
8-hour working days to fit 12 back boxes, run a cable from each box to
a central point under the stairs and to cable for the heat/smoke
alarms, considering that the floorboards were already up and he uses
such labour-saving devices as an electric wall chaser and a box-sinker
attachment on his SDS drill?

Nobody seems to know, except one person said it seemed reasonable.

Did you watch him fit any back boxes, or run any cables i.e. can you
gauge how long it took him to do each part of the job?

I could guess at say, 45 minutes per back box, and 45 minutes for each
cable run to the hall - 18 hours.

Smoke alarm cables say, say, 6 hours.

1 hour lunch and 2 x 15 mins breaks per day - 6 hours

Anyone else?

--
Richard Faulkner

Dave Sharp wrote:

All I need to know is, would it honestly take 32 hours ie, 4 full 8-hour
working days to fit 12 back boxes, run a cable from each box to a central
point under the stairs and to cable for the heat/smoke alarms, considering
that the floorboards were already up and he uses such labour-saving devices
as an electric wall chaser and a box-sinker attachment on his SDS drill?

To be honest 4 days does not sound excesssive. Personally I would be
quite happy with a bill of 400 odd if not doing the work myself.

(It took me about a day to do three mains powered smoke alarms)


--
Cheers,

John.

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It looks like it should be no more than 2 days work to me and thats going at it really slow.

With the boards up and a empty house thats one slow spark you've got there.
I would be really interested in seeing his Qualifications, I'm a carpenter and I cost £150 a day.

And to the other's in this forum, race or place of origin has nothing to do with competence.