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DIY roof mount wind power? anyone?
On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 15:40:40 +0000 someone who may be Matt
wrote this:- Lies, damn lies Who are you accusing of lying? Oxford University? The Meteorological Office? and a distinct lack of hot (or cold) air. Have you evaluated the weather records in detail? About 15 miles away I can observe about two dozen of them right now clustered in one of the highest wind installations in the country - all of them are sat stationery, just as they have been since 6am this morning. I passed another half dozen yesterday again sat doing nothing due to a lack of wind. And someone else reports wind turbines running happily. That confirms the work in the report. -- David Hansen, Edinburgh I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54 |
DIY roof mount wind power? anyone?
On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 17:39:02 +0000 someone who may be Matt
wrote this:- What I am saying is the price swings are so violent that one year the generation is very profitable, then the market evaporates *completely* because the market was manipulated by certain parties that have less than this countries interests at heart. The problem with "basic capitalist concepts", as taught in O Grade economics, is that Adam Smith modelled the market of his time. Small family-owned companies, operating in a local agricultural market. As a result of this there were few barriers to changing product, everyone had much the same market intelligence and the interests of the owners and managers were the same. Markets are rather more complicated today, but party politicians appear unable to grasp this. The centralised intelligent planning that went into the UK electricity market up until the late 70's Well, there was centralised planning. How intelligent it was is a matter of debate. Two examples. Scotland ended up with five large power stations (two nuclear, one gas/oil, two coal). There are others but these are all relatively small, apart from the oil fired one that has spent most of its life mothballed. This was the result of unintelligent planning. As well as the expense, it means that the system is less robust than it should be. The exception is the Highlands, which has a large number of small power stations, remotely/automatically controlled and remotely supervised. The generators of the time were obliged to generate electricity as cheaply as possible, with the result that they built large centralised coal fired power stations that threw a lot of heat away without making any use of it. Had they been obliged to do the best for "UK plc" then they would have built smaller more local power stations, with the heat used for district heating. We would not now be facing a gas shortage if many homes had hot water piped in, instead of burning gas to produce it. -- David Hansen, Edinburgh I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54 |
DIY roof mount wind power? anyone?
In message , Matt
writes What I am saying is the price swings are so violent that one year the generation is very profitable, then the market evaporates *completely* because the market was manipulated by certain parties that have less than this countries interests at heart. More than one company just went to the wall (witness British Energy for instance) If scrap prices had been more favourable, and the banks had made the decision to go for stripping the site there is no way the "market forces" would have been able to react in time and build new generation. Witness the same thing happening in California a few years ago. No investment signals were flashing because the market didn't signal anything at all until it was too late. Those who did know what was happening and predicted it ahead of time were sidelined by know it all financiers. Some of the "informed" just took the severance money and retired to the woods up in Oregon and now live a comfortable existence "off grid". The UK market is identical. All the money, from all the tinpot dictators/football chairmen in the world doesn't give you the opportunity to jump the queue at the manufacturers and get what you want years early. The centralised intelligent planning that went into the UK electricity market up until the late 70's disappeared forever to be replaced by almost total inaction throughout most of the 80's (except Sizewell) due mainly to government restraint and was replaced by the free market, sweet bugger all, head in the sand, couldn't give a **** approach post 1990 with the result that Postman Pat's cat half asleep has more idea of the UK's future power plant requirements than any slick suited inbred merchant banker making critical decisions for the future of the UK ever would. Agree 100%. The Merchant ******s who run this country can't see beyond the next quarter's figures. A quick Google hasn't given the me an update on the current situation, but BNFL where looking to sell off their Westinghouse division... the one company with a modern approved reactor design, for sale to the highest bidder (probably be Far Eastern) just as the world moves into the next major phase of Nuclear build. Again the Bankers can see beyond the fast buck now to a potential bonanza 5-10-20 years down the line. Or maybe they've got the nod from Teflon Tone that he hasn't got the balls to order new nuclear. Maybe a really long, hard winter with rolling blackouts would be the best hope for this country. -- steve |
DIY roof mount wind power? anyone?
In message , David Hansen
writes National Grid Company have stated that 8,000 MW of wind capacity would displace 3,000 MW of conventional plant, with 25,000 MW displacing the need for 5,000 MW. T 25000MW is about 5000-10000 large wind turbines. To displace 5000MW, which is about one large or two medium conventional (or nuclear) plants. Go figure. -- steve |
DIY roof mount wind power? anyone?
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DIY roof mount wind power? anyone?
"David Hansen" wrote in message ... On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 23:36:23 +0000 someone who may be Matt wrote this:- the planning implications of huge (or even less than huge) amounts of wind generation are immense, the consumer will still need to stump up the costs for conventional plant lying idle for the day the wind drops. The report at http://www.eci.ox.ac.uk/renewables/ukwind disagrees with you. The report is obviously wrong then. There are days when the wind speed drops close to zero over large areas of the UK. So you either need to build 20 time the number of wind turbines so that the areas that still have wind can supply all the power or you need gas turbines or similar plant. The alternative is convince the population that they don't need electricity on demand and that sitting in the dark and cold is good for you. |
DIY roof mount wind power? anyone?
"David Hansen" wrote in message ... On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 14:25:45 -0000 someone who may be "Andy" wrote this:- OK, it's just a sample size of one, but it does mean a 100% outage of commercial wind energy in the south east of England... As http://www.bwea.com/ukwed/print-map-operational.html indicates there are not too many wind turbines in SE England at the moment. I didn't realise there was another turbine in the SE - when 'mine' was commissioned yesterday it was billed as the first in the SE. Like everything, the definitions are obviously customisable! I therefore have to revise my assessment - the sample size of one represents a 50% outage in SE England. The point I was making was that statistics can 'prove' what ever point to view you happen to have. TBH I have lost track of whether you are for or against wind energy! Don't get my point wrong, I am neither anti or pro alternative generation, I just don't agree with the one size fits all solution. IMO we should be looking at a range of technologies to ensure the 'lights don't go out'. There aren't a great number of other forms of electricity generation there either. There are a handful of nuclear and coal power stations, plus some gas turbine stations. Thats a little unfair. Has the discussion now veered away from +/- wind energy to +/- SE England? How many (currently operational) nuclear stations are there in the whole of England? I think the SE can hold its head high on that one! Probably the same on the fossil fuel front as well for that matter. However, people may have noticed large silver things marching across the countryside like invading martians roped together. These can be used to move electricity from where it is generated to where it is used. Cool. What will they think of next? Actually, don't you think that last remark is just a little patronising? Regards, Andy (Ex Hinkley Point B) |
DIY roof mount wind power? anyone?
On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 20:43:06 +0000 someone who may be Steven Briggs
wrote this:- 25000MW is about 5000-10000 large wind turbines. If they were all built tomorrow then the largest turbine rating in use at the moment is 3MW, as at the recently commissioned Kentish Flats http://www.kentishflats.co.uk Assuming all were of this size that would be 8333 turbines, or 277 wind farms of that size. To get that number into perspective the largest 200 cities, towns and districts are http://www.citymayors.com/gratis/uk_topcities.html If all the wind farms were built onshore then each of those cities, towns and districts would have 1.4 wind farms the size of Kentish Flats. It is more likely that say half the capacity will be offshore and half onshore. That is a rather simplified analysis, but it certainly isn't "covering the whole of the UK with wind turbines", as some suggest. To displace 5000MW, 5000MW is 20% of electricity generation (from the next sentence which you snipped). It would be delightful if 20% of electricity was generated by wind power, but it is not going to happen tomorrow. There is an aspiration for 20% of electricity by renewable means by 2020, but I doubt if that will all be from wind farms. which is about one large or two medium conventional http://www.scottishpower.com/pages/a...etpowerstation says that Longannet Power Station is the second largest coal-fired power station in the UK and one of the largest in Europe. It has an installed capacity of four, 600 MW units. In other words 5000MW is about two large conventional plants. I know that Drax (3960MW) is the largest coal-fired power station in western Europe. I couldn't rapidly find the largest gas turbine station, but couldn't find one above 1500MW. (or nuclear) plants. http://www.british-energy.com/article.php?article=23 says that Sizewell B has an output of 1200MW. In other words 5000MW is about four nuclear plants. -- David Hansen, Edinburgh I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54 |
DIY roof mount wind power? anyone?
On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 23:29:31 GMT someone who may be "dennis@home"
wrote this:- The report is obviously wrong then. Ah, proof by assertion. There are days when the wind speed drops close to zero over large areas of the UK. It is the case that wind speeds are close to zero over parts of the land mass of the UK, from time to time. The way to study how large those parts are and how frequently this happens is to study the weather records. The authors of the report say that they have done so. Are you saying they are lying? Are you saying that all the weather recorders are liars? Or are you simply unable/unwilling to accept the report and the evidence it is based on? -- David Hansen, Edinburgh I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54 |
DIY roof mount wind power? anyone?
In article ,
David Hansen writes: If they were all built tomorrow then the largest turbine rating in use at the moment is 3MW, as at the recently commissioned Kentish Flats http://www.kentishflats.co.uk Assuming all were of this size that would be 8333 turbines, or 277 wind farms of that size. A 2MW one was erected a week ago at M4 J11 (Reading). It seems to have caused quite some traffic congestion due to motorists slowing down to admire it. Ironically, there's been virtually no wind since it was finished, and mostly it's been barely managing 1 rev per minute. -- Andrew Gabriel |
DIY roof mount wind power? anyone?
In article , Andrew Gabriel
writes In article , David Hansen writes: If they were all built tomorrow then the largest turbine rating in use at the moment is 3MW, as at the recently commissioned Kentish Flats http://www.kentishflats.co.uk Assuming all were of this size that would be 8333 turbines, or 277 wind farms of that size. A 2MW one was erected a week ago at M4 J11 (Reading). It seems to have caused quite some traffic congestion due to motorists slowing down to admire it. Ironically, there's been virtually no wind since it was finished, and mostly it's been barely managing 1 rev per minute. As is the new farm out near Friday Bridge in Cambs. Mind you the turbine at the dogs home in Godmanchester every time I go past there its turning. Dorset seem to appear on any mill databases but suppose its privately owned. Be glad when this bloody fine but cold weather breaks, give me a mild wind anytime:))... -- Tony Sayer |
DIY roof mount wind power? anyone?
The message
from David Hansen contains these words: The report is obviously wrong then. Ah, proof by assertion. There are days when the wind speed drops close to zero over large areas of the UK. It is the case that wind speeds are close to zero over parts of the land mass of the UK, from time to time. The way to study how large those parts are and how frequently this happens is to study the weather records. The authors of the report say that they have done so. Are you saying they are lying? Are you saying that all the weather recorders are liars? Or are you simply unable/unwilling to accept the report and the evidence it is based on? Near the top of this thread you said: start quote On the myth of wind power being unavailable for long periods it has this to say: "Low wind speed conditions affecting 90% or more of the UK would occur in around one hour every five years during winter; end quote That is not so much addressing the problem as avoiding it. Firstly even a short lapse would mean that the generating industry would have to provide all its output from other sources. Secondly it is not the area of the UK that is significant but the area that the turbines are built in. And thirdly the more wind generated capacity there is the more chance that the critical value for lack of wind will be well below 90%. -- Roger Chapman |
DIY roof mount wind power? anyone?
In message , David Hansen
writes On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 20:43:06 +0000 someone who may be Steven Briggs wrote this:- 25000MW is about 5000-10000 large wind turbines. If they were all built tomorrow then the largest turbine rating in use at the moment is 3MW, as at the recently commissioned Kentish Flats http://www.kentishflats.co.uk Assuming all were of this size that would be 8333 turbines, or 277 wind farms of that size. Arklow, Ireland, is built with GE 3.6MW turbines. Total capacity 25MW with 7 turbines. The largest turbines, in prototype testing at the moment, are 5MW (REpower Systems AG, prototype operating in Germany). Many sites may be limited to 2-3-4MW units, hence my estimate of 5000-10000 units for 25000MW. Reasonable? To get that number into perspective the largest 200 cities, towns and districts are http://www.citymayors.com/gratis/uk_topcities.html If all the wind farms were built onshore then each of those cities, towns and districts would have 1.4 wind farms the size of Kentish Flats. It is more likely that say half the capacity will be offshore and half onshore. That is a rather simplified analysis, but it certainly isn't "covering the whole of the UK with wind turbines", as some suggest. To displace 5000MW, 5000MW is 20% of electricity generation (from the next sentence which you snipped). It would be delightful if 20% of electricity was generated by wind power, but it is not going to happen tomorrow. There is an aspiration for 20% of electricity by renewable means by 2020, but I doubt if that will all be from wind farms. I was taking the 20% that is the capacity factor of 25000MW of installed turbines, the figure given by National Grid at 20% market penetration. This allows for intermittent operation, periods like now, winter anticyclonic conditions when many sites would not be generating at all. which is about one large or two medium conventional http://www.scottishpower.com/pages/a...sinesses_ukdiv ision_powergeneration_longannetpowerstation?nav=a boutus_scottishpowerbus inesses_ukdivision_powergeneration_longannetpower station says that Longannet Power Station is the second largest coal-fired power station in the UK and one of the largest in Europe. It has an installed capacity of four, 600 MW units. In other words 5000MW is about two large conventional plants. I know that Drax (3960MW) is the largest coal-fired power station in western Europe. I couldn't rapidly find the largest gas turbine station, but couldn't find one above 1500MW. I was thinking of Drax as the large example. I stand corrected on the Nuclear front, I looked up Torness (near you), at 1364MWe, assumed this was per reactor, it is in fact total for both. So 4 or 5 typical nuclear plants (current plants have a capacity factor of 75%, new build is expected to be 90%). So to get to the point I was trying to make, let's take Torness again, an example close to home for you. 1364MWe at 75% capacity value = 1023MWe of useful capacity. To replace this with wind at 20% capacity value, thats 5115 MWe of turbines, or 1023 units of the current biggest (5MWe) turbines in operation. So lets stick over 1000 turbines, at 450+ feet high, out in the Firth of Forth. How does that look? Expensive too, http://www.tsaugust.org/Wind%20Articles.htm#Nuclear -- steve |
DIY roof mount wind power? anyone?
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 21:03:20 +0000 someone who may be Steven Briggs
wrote this:- So lets stick over 1000 turbines, at 450+ feet high, out in the Firth of Forth. Assuming that wind farms should be located in the same place as nuclear power plants. How does that look? It would look excellent. All you are saying is that wind power is diffuse, something I already know. Expensive too, http://www.tsaugust.org/Wind%20Articles.htm#Nuclear All the articles on that page are anti-wind power, which I suspect tells us what we need to know about the authors. The Sustainable Development Commission's report, which is peer-reviewed, examined the subject in detail and came to rather different conclusions. -- David Hansen, Edinburgh I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54 |
DIY roof mount wind power? anyone?
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 12:14:40 GMT someone who may be Roger
wrote this:- "Low wind speed conditions affecting 90% or more of the UK would occur in around one hour every five years during winter; That is not so much addressing the problem as avoiding it. On the contrary, it is addressing the issue head on. I do understand why the anti-wind lobby don't like that. Firstly even a short lapse would mean that the generating industry would have to provide all its output from other sources. What that means is that for one hour in every five years 90% of the land area of the UK would not have winds suitable for generating electricity from. That leaves the other 10% of the land area and the sea. Secondly it is not the area of the UK that is significant but the area that the turbines are built in. The report is addressing anti-wind claims that the whole of the UK is frequently becalmed and thus no electricity could be generated from the wind. In other words wind has a capacity credit ('firm power') of zero. The report demonstrates that this claim is false. Where wind farms should be situated is another discussion. The industry is aware of the best sites, wind power is not some back of an envelope thing. And thirdly the more wind generated capacity there is the more chance that the critical value for lack of wind will be well below 90%. Until wind exceeds around 20% of total generation the cost of additional backup for wind is small. Above that and the costs do increase. That is why nobody is suggesting generating say 50% of electricity from the wind, other than anti-wind lobbyists trying to put up a straw man. There are a whole range of other sustainable ways of generating electricity as well, a not exhaustive list including tidal stream, wave, biomass and hydro. Together with the cheapest of them all, energy conservation, the UK can avoid the nuclear mess while having a reliable electricity system. Indeed by having a large number of small generators the electricity system is more stable than with a small number of large generators. An indication of this is the way the first commercial wind farm at Delabole dramatically reduced the operation of automatic tap-changers at the local substation. -- David Hansen, Edinburgh I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54 |
DIY roof mount wind power? anyone?
The message
from David Hansen contains these words: "Low wind speed conditions affecting 90% or more of the UK would occur in around one hour every five years during winter; That is not so much addressing the problem as avoiding it. On the contrary, it is addressing the issue head on. I do understand why the anti-wind lobby don't like that. So you say but you appear to be the chief spin doctor for the pro wind lobby. Firstly even a short lapse would mean that the generating industry would have to provide all its output from other sources. What that means is that for one hour in every five years 90% of the land area of the UK would not have winds suitable for generating electricity from. That leaves the other 10% of the land area and the sea. Ah, I get it at last. All the wind generators will be shunted round the country to stay in the 10% that still has a bit of wind and when that fails for the odd hour they will all be floated out to sea where it has been decreed that the wind will always strong enough. Secondly it is not the area of the UK that is significant but the area that the turbines are built in. The report is addressing anti-wind claims that the whole of the UK is frequently becalmed and thus no electricity could be generated from the wind. In other words wind has a capacity credit ('firm power') of zero. The report demonstrates that this claim is false. But not apparently addressing the practical problems flowing from a large stationary high such as we have recently been experiencing. Spin, not science. They need to cater for the worst case scenario, not the average. Where wind farms should be situated is another discussion. The industry is aware of the best sites, wind power is not some back of an envelope thing. Best sites for wind on an individual basis, best sites to minimise disruption or best sites for distribution? To some extent at least mutually exclusive. And thirdly the more wind generated capacity there is the more chance that the critical value for lack of wind will be well below 90%. Until wind exceeds around 20% of total generation the cost of additional backup for wind is small. Above that and the costs do increase. That is why nobody is suggesting generating say 50% of electricity from the wind, other than anti-wind lobbyists trying to put up a straw man. So the real contribution from wind is an expensive exercise in pointlessness. Either there is so little capacity from wind generation that the other forms of generation don't actually need supplementing with wind power or wind power needs other plant standing idle most of the time to cover for the days when wind is largely absent. There are a whole range of other sustainable ways of generating electricity as well, a not exhaustive list including tidal stream, wave, biomass and hydro. Together with the cheapest of them all, energy conservation, the UK can avoid the nuclear mess while having a reliable electricity system. Indeed by having a large number of small generators the electricity system is more stable than with a small number of large generators. An indication of this is the way the first commercial wind farm at Delabole dramatically reduced the operation of automatic tap-changers at the local substation. You probably won't recall it but my first contribution to this thread was to suggest tidal power was a much better idea than wind power. -- Roger Chapman |
DIY roof mount wind power? anyone?
Roger wrote:
The message from David Hansen contains these words: Ah, I get it at last. All the points you raise have all been addressed already. NT |
DIY roof mount wind power? anyone?
On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 23:56:10 -0000 someone who may be "Andy"
wrote this:- I just don't agree with the one size fits all solution. IMO we should be looking at a range of technologies to ensure the 'lights don't go out'. What 'one size fits all solution' would that be? I don't recall anyone advocating that 100% of electricity is produced by wind power, in this thread or elsewhere. -- David Hansen, Edinburgh I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54 |
DIY roof mount wind power? anyone?
"David Hansen" wrote in message
... On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 23:56:10 -0000 someone who may be "Andy" wrote this:- I just don't agree with the one size fits all solution. IMO we should be looking at a range of technologies to ensure the 'lights don't go out'. What 'one size fits all solution' would that be? I don't recall anyone advocating that 100% of electricity is produced by wind power, in this thread or elsewhere. I find it interesting (and enlightening) that this is the only point in my posting that you choose to address. Have you got the courage to address the other challenges? I take your reply above to mean that you accept the statistic of a minimum of 50% outage for wind generation in the SE for almost a full week? I am sure that stat can be distorted some more to paint an even more bleak picture for all alternative generation in the region if I want. Get my point? Oh, and that 'one size fits all solution' would be the one that you seem to have been promoting. The tone of this thread has been about the pros and cons of wind power to provide somewhere around 20% of our leccy. There seem to have been some evangelists and detractors in equal measure. I was merely a) trying to show that there are some shades of grey between the black and white views that have been put forward and b) a rather toungue in cheek attempt to show that the stats presented both for and against wind energy so far have been rather stronger in enthusiasm/cynicism than informed opinion. Regards. |
DIY roof mount wind power? anyone?
On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 23:16:43 -0000 someone who may be "Andy"
wrote this:- What 'one size fits all solution' would that be? I don't recall anyone advocating that 100% of electricity is produced by wind power, in this thread or elsewhere. I find it interesting (and enlightening) that this is the only point in my posting that you choose to address. I'm free to address whatever I like. Have you got the courage to address the other challenges? Already done so in numerous postings in this thread and there is little point in repeating it too frequently, but I'll add a little below. I take your reply above to mean that you accept the statistic of a minimum of 50% outage for wind generation in the SE for almost a full week? I'm accept that you saw one wind turbine not turning for almost a full week. However, that tells us very little about wind generation across the UK, offshore as well as on land. Oh, and that 'one size fits all solution' would be the one that you seem to have been promoting. No, I have been answering points about wind power. That does not mean that I want 100% of electricity in the UK to be generated from the wind. If I wanted to say that then I would do so. -- David Hansen, Edinburgh I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54 |
DIY roof mount wind power? anyone?
"David Hansen" wrote in message ... I take your reply above to mean that you accept the statistic of a minimum of 50% outage for wind generation in the SE for almost a full week? I'm accept that you saw one wind turbine not turning for almost a full week. However, that tells us very little about wind generation across the UK, offshore as well as on land. That is precisely my point. The data I posted was factually correct but the conclusion I presented was at least questionable. The same can be said for most of the statistics that have been presented in this thread. Oh, and that 'one size fits all solution' would be the one that you seem to have been promoting. No, I have been answering points about wind power. That does not mean that I want 100% of electricity in the UK to be generated from the wind. If I wanted to say that then I would do so. I didn't suggest that you had proposed 100% wind generation - the figure you quote is around 20%. I was simply observing that wind energy is just one of the options that is available. I just have problems with putting all my eggs in one basket. Andy. |
DIY roof mount wind power? anyone?
"Andy" wrote in message ... "David Hansen" wrote in message ... I take your reply above to mean that you accept the statistic of a minimum of 50% outage for wind generation in the SE for almost a full week? I'm accept that you saw one wind turbine not turning for almost a full week. However, that tells us very little about wind generation across the UK, offshore as well as on land. That is precisely my point. The data I posted was factually correct but the conclusion I presented was at least questionable. The same can be said for most of the statistics that have been presented in this thread. Oh, and that 'one size fits all solution' would be the one that you seem to have been promoting. No, I have been answering points about wind power. That does not mean that I want 100% of electricity in the UK to be generated from the wind. If I wanted to say that then I would do so. I didn't suggest that you had proposed 100% wind generation - the figure you quote is around 20%. I was simply observing that wind energy is just one of the options that is available. I just have problems with putting all my eggs in one basket. There are proposals for some large EON installations on and around Thorne Moors not too far away from me. The local paper is full of letters about them. The antis are screaming about noise, bird strike, subsonic noise, aeroplanes crashing into them etc etc. The pros keep demolishing the arguments but the duty cycle reliabilty is about the only really serious argument. I think I prefer the idea of not burning "some of the coal" at Drax, Eggborough, Ferry Bridge or any of the other local stations when the wind is blowing sufficiently to simply burning it all the time. If I can come across a secondhand or cheap new wind genny and associated gear I've a spot on top of my barn just dying to give it a home. (Its one of my E-bay favourite searches) |
DIY roof mount wind power? anyone?
"John" wrote in message ... There are proposals for some large EON installations on and around Thorne Moors not too far away from me. The local paper is full of letters about them. The antis are screaming about noise, bird strike, subsonic noise, aeroplanes crashing into them etc etc. The pros keep demolishing the arguments but the duty cycle reliabilty is about the only really serious argument. I think I prefer the idea of not burning "some of the coal" at Drax, Eggborough, Ferry Bridge or any of the other local stations when the wind is blowing sufficiently to simply burning it all the time. If I can come across a secondhand or cheap new wind genny and associated gear I've a spot on top of my barn just dying to give it a home. (Its one of my E-bay favourite searches) John, Generally I share your sentiments. I guess when I read the earlier contributions to this thread I felt that some of the statistics that were presented seemed initially plausable, but when examined a little closer were a little 'ingenious'. I tried to hint at this by drawing a very silly conclusion from an invalid sample size - the upshot has been excuses for circumstances leading to no wind generation but no challenge to the basic flawed conclusions... It seems that the points I posted earlier have been perceived as 'anti' wind energy which I find quite odd. As it happens I am admiring the countries newest wind turbine from my desk as I write this and hope that the proposed companions for it will be built. However I don't see that this should preclude any other form of alternative energy generation - there is strength in diversity. |
DIY roof mount wind power? anyone?
On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 00:44:13 -0000 someone who may be "Andy"
wrote this:- Generally I share your sentiments. I guess when I read the earlier contributions to this thread I felt that some of the statistics that were presented seemed initially plausable, but when examined a little closer were a little 'ingenious'. I tried to hint at this by drawing a very silly conclusion from an invalid sample size - the upshot has been excuses for circumstances leading to no wind generation but no challenge to the basic flawed conclusions... Incorrect. The challenge to the "basic flawed conclusions" is the Oxford report referred to earlier. -- David Hansen, Edinburgh I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54 |
DIY roof mount wind power? anyone?
"Andy" wrote in message ... SNIP Generally I share your sentiments. I guess when I read the earlier contributions to this thread I felt that some of the statistics that were presented seemed initially plausable, but when examined a little closer were a little 'ingenious'. I tried to hint at this by drawing a very silly conclusion from an invalid sample size - the upshot has been excuses for circumstances leading to no wind generation but no challenge to the basic flawed conclusions... It seems that the points I posted earlier have been perceived as 'anti' wind energy which I find quite odd. As it happens I am admiring the countries newest wind turbine from my desk as I write this and hope that the proposed companions for it will be built. However I don't see that this should preclude any other form of alternative energy generation - there is strength in diversity. Exactly so - if I had a stream from a decently high hill nearby I would definitely have a small water turbine "as well". If the voltaic panel ever becomes cheap enough that would also be factored into the scheme of things. John Don't you just find the elegance of a man made structure such as a wind generator a testament to human ingenuity? |
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