hot air heating versus radiators
 

Hi I live in a 1991 built semi with 3 bedrooms and the heating system is gas
fired warm air by Johnson and Starley. It is again starting to get noisy, I
must by a can of WD40. I already had the fan replaced a few years ago.

After discussing(arguing?) it with my wife she has said that she never liked
the heating anyway and wants to replace it with radiators. I was wondering
if there was any sites that compare the merits and costs of running the 2
systems and also if anyone knows if radiators would be cheaper to run than
the present warm air system? I spend about £360 a year at present on gas for
the heating and hot water and cooking and wonder if the running costs of
radiators would be significantly cheaper or dearer. I was wondering if there
would also be a saving on my electricity as I assume running a central
heating pump would consume less electricity than a dirty great big fan.

Also because of the constant hot water( there is no automatic on off switch
for the hot water other than manually turning the thermostat down) I have a
power shower. Would I still be able to use this if I got a new more
efficient hot water system or would I need a new shower. I used to have
radiators in another house and when they first came on they used all the hot
water until it heated up again as I found out when I started to run a bath
just as the timer switched the radiators on, but that was a coal fired
system.

Another cost saving would be that I would no longer need a maintenance
contract with Scottish gas as there is less to go wrong with a radiator
system than a warm air system.

I have a garage attached to the side of the house so I would hope that the
boiler could be situated there.
So I am looking for some advice and suggestions from people who have changed
from hot air to radiators or anyone who wants to chip in.

Thanks Ronald

Ron wrote:
Hi I live in a 1991 built semi with 3 bedrooms and the heating system is gas
fired warm air by Johnson and Starley. It is again starting to get noisy, I
must by a can of WD40. I already had the fan replaced a few years ago.

After discussing(arguing?) it with my wife she has said that she never liked
the heating anyway and wants to replace it with radiators. I was wondering
if there was any sites that compare the merits and costs of running the 2
systems

forced air is a cheaper alternative to rads (to install), and has a few
drawbacks:
- noise
- dust blown about
- whiffs transferred round the house

Hence it remains unpopular in UK. In US OTOH its the standard method.

Run costs are similar, the big fan means more on the leccy bill, and a
bit less on the gas, but overall a bit more money.

Replacing an old system would improve run costs if the new boiler is
more efficient, but not not if its the same efficiency.


I used to have
radiators in another house and when they first came on they used all the hot
water until it heated up again as I found out when I started to run a bath
just as the timer switched the radiators on, but that was a coal fired
system.

ah. If that happened on a gas system it would be lousy design. HW gets
priority. Coal systems tend to lack proper controls.


Another cost saving would be that I would no longer need a maintenance
contract with Scottish gas as there is less to go wrong with a radiator
system than a warm air system.

no theres more. Forced air is just a big fan and ducts, a hydronic
system has plumbing, rads, pump, header tank, TRVs, inhobitor,
ballcock... thats why forced air is cheaper to install.


NT

We have J&S warm air and I've wondered about the cost.

However I thought it was quieter and less complex than a water system which
has pumps, pipes, lots of water. Also it gets warm quickly but hasn't got
the very hot radiators to put your backside on.
Overall I can't justify changing it as its not on in the day and is only
needed for 6 months of the year.

We use an immersion heater for hot water as the pipe runs would be too long
from the boiler.



"Ron" wrote in message
.uk...
Hi I live in a 1991 built semi with 3 bedrooms and the heating system is
gas fired warm air by Johnson and Starley. It is again starting to get
noisy, I must by a can of WD40. I already had the fan replaced a few years
ago.

After discussing(arguing?) it with my wife she has said that she never
liked the heating anyway and wants to replace it with radiators. I was
wondering if there was any sites that compare the merits and costs of
running the 2 systems and also if anyone knows if radiators would be
cheaper to run than the present warm air system? I spend about £360 a year
at present on gas for the heating and hot water and cooking and wonder if
the running costs of radiators would be significantly cheaper or dearer. I
was wondering if there would also be a saving on my electricity as I
assume running a central heating pump would consume less electricity than
a dirty great big fan.

Also because of the constant hot water( there is no automatic on off
switch for the hot water other than manually turning the thermostat down)
I have a power shower. Would I still be able to use this if I got a new
more efficient hot water system or would I need a new shower. I used to
have radiators in another house and when they first came on they used all
the hot water until it heated up again as I found out when I started to
run a bath just as the timer switched the radiators on, but that was a
coal fired system.

Another cost saving would be that I would no longer need a maintenance
contract with Scottish gas as there is less to go wrong with a radiator
system than a warm air system.

I have a garage attached to the side of the house so I would hope that the
boiler could be situated there.
So I am looking for some advice and suggestions from people who have
changed from hot air to radiators or anyone who wants to chip in.

Thanks Ronald

wrote in message
oups.com...
Ron wrote:
snip

Another cost saving would be that I would no longer need a
maintenance
contract with Scottish gas as there is less to go wrong with a
radiator
system than a warm air system.

no theres more. Forced air is just a big fan and ducts, a hydronic
system has plumbing, rads, pump, header tank, TRVs, inhobitor,
ballcock... thats why forced air is cheaper to install.


In deed, my modern 6 year old wet radiator heating system has had
more problems than my mothers house 25 year old hot air gas fired
system (the ducting etc. is 40 years old [1]) has had in the 10 years
she has lived in that house...

[1] The only reason it was changed was due to a change from oil to
gas.

There is also the 'problem' of space using radiators, air grills take
up far less space and are far less obtrusive, when changing to a wet
(radiator) system you might well find that you need to re arrange the
room furnishings or even that you don't have the space for all the
furniture that you did - having lived with wet systems, using both
cast iron radiators or slim-line steel radiators, (wet) under-floor,
and hot air heating in various houses I would say my favourite system
is hot air, heating of the room is far quicker, the noise level is
not that obtrusive if the system is maintained and with a modern
system with air filtering etc. the room air quality *could* in fact
be better than that with a wet system.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Ron wrote:

Hi I live in a 1991 built semi with 3 bedrooms and the heating system is
gas
fired warm air by Johnson and Starley. It is again starting to get
noisy, I
must by a can of WD40. I already had the fan replaced a few years ago.

After discussing(arguing?) it with my wife she has said that she never
liked
the heating anyway and wants to replace it with radiators. I was
wondering
if there was any sites that compare the merits and costs of running the
2
systems

forced air is a cheaper alternative to rads (to install),

Not so. About the same in new builds.

and has a few
drawbacks:
- noise

Not so. The latest units are very quiet. A lot has happened since 1991.
Also, it is worth having the cupboard sealed up too. Not a big job.

- dust blown about

Not so. The latest units have electrostatic air filters which are recommend
for asthmatics.

- whiffs transferred round the house

Not so. The filters kills any smells.

What you spouted are the old wives tales of forced air. Forced air can also
cool a house by circulating air.

Hence it remains unpopular in UK.

Because of old wives tales and poor, cheap installations.

In US OTOH its the standard method.

The US know how to fit them.

Run costs are similar,

Not so. Forced air is usually cheaper.

the big fan means more on the leccy bill, and a
bit less on the gas, but overall a bit more money.

Nope.

Replacing an old system would improve run costs if the new boiler is
more efficient, but not not if its the same efficiency.

I used to have
radiators in another house and when they first came on they used all the
hot
water until it heated up again as I found out when I started to run a
bath
just as the timer switched the radiators on, but that was a coal fired
system.

ah. If that happened on a gas system it would be lousy design. HW gets
priority. Coal systems tend to lack proper controls.

Another cost saving would be that I would no longer need a maintenance
contract with Scottish gas as there is less to go wrong with a radiator
system than a warm air system.

no theres more. Forced air is just a big fan and ducts, a hydronic
system has plumbing, rads, pump, header tank, TRVs, inhobitor,
ballcock... thats why forced air is cheaper to install.

Forced air is not cheaper to install. In some homes where the house was
designed around the units that may have been the case.

Dry system are superior to wet systems. As soon as you put water in a
container it wants to get out. And eventually it does. Wet system sludge
up too. A modern sealed CH wet system is more problematic than a forced air
system. ....and no ugly rads on the walls.

New registers can be fitted to give better and in some case auto control.
Some registers are motor controlled and open and close to a room stat. When
most registers are closed the fan motor drops its speed to suit so no noise.
The fan motor also drops it speed when up to temperature too. All easily
updated.

Johnson & Starley make direct replacement units which are a world away from
the old units, with electrostatic air filters, modulating fans and burns via
electronic control.

Look at:
http://www.plumbingpages.com/forums/...s.cfm?Forum=16

It is a no-brainer......keep the forced air system, with new
state-of-the-art unit.

":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
eenews.net...

wrote in message
oups.com...
Ron wrote:
snip

Another cost saving would be that I would no longer need a
maintenance
contract with Scottish gas as there is less to go wrong with a
radiator
system than a warm air system.

no theres more. Forced air is just a big fan and ducts, a hydronic
system has plumbing, rads, pump, header tank, TRVs, inhobitor,
ballcock... thats why forced air is cheaper to install.


In deed, my modern 6 year old wet radiator heating system has had
more problems than my mothers house 25 year old hot air gas fired
system (the ducting etc. is 40 years old [1]) has had in the 10 years
she has lived in that house...

[1] The only reason it was changed was due to a change from oil to
gas.

There is also the 'problem' of space using radiators, air grills take
up far less space and are far less obtrusive, when changing to a wet
(radiator) system you might well find that you need to re arrange the
room furnishings or even that you don't have the space for all the
furniture that you did - having lived with wet systems, using both
cast iron radiators or slim-line steel radiators, (wet) under-floor,
and hot air heating in various houses I would say my favourite system
is hot air, heating of the room is far quicker, the noise level is
not that obtrusive if the system is maintained and with a modern
system with air filtering etc. the room air quality *could* in fact
be better than that with a wet system.

Jerry that was very sensible. You have astounded me.

Ron wrote:

Hi I live in a 1991 built semi with 3 bedrooms and the heating system is gas
fired warm air by Johnson and Starley. It is again starting to get noisy, I
must by a can of WD40. I already had the fan replaced a few years ago.

After discussing(arguing?) it with my wife she has said that she never liked
the heating anyway and wants to replace it with radiators. I was wondering
if there was any sites that compare the merits and costs of running the 2
systems and also if anyone knows if radiators would be cheaper to run than
the present warm air system? I spend about £360 a year at present on gas for
the heating and hot water and cooking and wonder if the running costs of
radiators would be significantly cheaper or dearer. I was wondering if there
would also be a saving on my electricity as I assume running a central
heating pump would consume less electricity than a dirty great big fan.

Also because of the constant hot water( there is no automatic on off switch
for the hot water other than manually turning the thermostat down) I have a
power shower. Would I still be able to use this if I got a new more
efficient hot water system or would I need a new shower. I used to have
radiators in another house and when they first came on they used all the hot
water until it heated up again as I found out when I started to run a bath
just as the timer switched the radiators on, but that was a coal fired
system.

Another cost saving would be that I would no longer need a maintenance
contract with Scottish gas as there is less to go wrong with a radiator
system than a warm air system.

I have a garage attached to the side of the house so I would hope that the
boiler could be situated there.
So I am looking for some advice and suggestions from people who have changed
from hot air to radiators or anyone who wants to chip in.

Thanks Ronald


In principle I find that use of warm air eliminates cold spots a bit
better than rads and therefore should be a little cheaper..

The devil is in the detail though.

FYI, hot air heating can cause problems for people with breathing problems
or asthma, as it blows lost of dust particles around from within the vents
etc.
Mara

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Ron wrote:

Hi I live in a 1991 built semi with 3 bedrooms and the heating system is
gas fired warm air by Johnson and Starley. It is again starting to get
noisy, I must by a can of WD40. I already had the fan replaced a few
years ago.

After discussing(arguing?) it with my wife she has said that she never
liked the heating anyway and wants to replace it with radiators. I was
wondering if there was any sites that compare the merits and costs of
running the 2 systems and also if anyone knows if radiators would be
cheaper to run than the present warm air system? I spend about £360 a
year at present on gas for the heating and hot water and cooking and
wonder if the running costs of radiators would be significantly cheaper
or dearer. I was wondering if there would also be a saving on my
electricity as I assume running a central heating pump would consume less
electricity than a dirty great big fan.

Also because of the constant hot water( there is no automatic on off
switch for the hot water other than manually turning the thermostat down)
I have a power shower. Would I still be able to use this if I got a new
more efficient hot water system or would I need a new shower. I used to
have radiators in another house and when they first came on they used all
the hot water until it heated up again as I found out when I started to
run a bath just as the timer switched the radiators on, but that was a
coal fired system.

Another cost saving would be that I would no longer need a maintenance
contract with Scottish gas as there is less to go wrong with a radiator
system than a warm air system.

I have a garage attached to the side of the house so I would hope that
the boiler could be situated there.
So I am looking for some advice and suggestions from people who have
changed from hot air to radiators or anyone who wants to chip in.

Thanks Ronald


In principle I find that use of warm air eliminates cold spots a bit
better than rads and therefore should be a little cheaper..

The devil is in the detail though.

"Mara Sheldon" wrote in message
...

FYI, hot air heating can cause problems for people with breathing problems
or asthma, as it blows lost of dust particles around from within the vents
etc.
Mara

Read back on the thread. Electrostatic air filters are available that are
recommended for asthmatics.

wrote in message ...
On 3 Oct,
"Mara Sheldon" wrote:

FYI, hot air heating can cause problems for people with breathing
problems
or asthma, as it blows lost of dust particles around from within the
vents
etc.

That's one of the reasons I changed to a wet system.

You obviously didn't do your research. You turned in a superior system for
a crock.

Doctor Drivel wrote:
wrote in message

forced air is a cheaper alternative to rads (to install),

Not so. About the same in new builds.

and has a few
drawbacks:
- noise

Not so. The latest units are very quiet. A lot has happened since 1991.
Also, it is worth having the cupboard sealed up too. Not a big job.

- dust blown about

Not so. The latest units have electrostatic air filters which are recommend
for asthmatics.

- whiffs transferred round the house

Not so. The filters kills any smells.

What you spouted are the old wives tales of forced air. Forced air can also
cool a house by circulating air.

Hence it remains unpopular in UK.

Because of old wives tales and poor, cheap installations.

In US OTOH its the standard method.

The US know how to fit them.

Run costs are similar,

Not so. Forced air is usually cheaper.

the big fan means more on the leccy bill, and a
bit less on the gas, but overall a bit more money.

Nope.

Replacing an old system would improve run costs if the new boiler is
more efficient, but not not if its the same efficiency.

I used to have
radiators in another house and when they first came on they used all the
hot
water until it heated up again as I found out when I started to run a
bath
just as the timer switched the radiators on, but that was a coal fired
system.

ah. If that happened on a gas system it would be lousy design. HW gets
priority. Coal systems tend to lack proper controls.

Another cost saving would be that I would no longer need a maintenance
contract with Scottish gas as there is less to go wrong with a radiator
system than a warm air system.

no theres more. Forced air is just a big fan and ducts, a hydronic
system has plumbing, rads, pump, header tank, TRVs, inhobitor,
ballcock... thats why forced air is cheaper to install.

Forced air is not cheaper to install. In some homes where the house was
designed around the units that may have been the case.

Dry system are superior to wet systems. As soon as you put water in a
container it wants to get out. And eventually it does. Wet system sludge
up too. A modern sealed CH wet system is more problematic than a forced air
system. ....and no ugly rads on the walls.

New registers can be fitted to give better and in some case auto control.
Some registers are motor controlled and open and close to a room stat. When
most registers are closed the fan motor drops its speed to suit so no noise.
The fan motor also drops it speed when up to temperature too. All easily
updated.

Johnson & Starley make direct replacement units which are a world away from
the old units, with electrostatic air filters, modulating fans and burns via
electronic control.

Look at:
http://www.plumbingpages.com/forums/...s.cfm?Forum=16

It is a no-brainer......keep the forced air system, with new
state-of-the-art unit.


Thank you for the good information Dr Drivel. Yep, you heard!

I used a building with 1970s hot air heating, and it was as I
described. Quite workable, but clearly not as good as hydronic. But as
Drivel kindly pointed out, all these issues are quite overcomeable.


NT

"Matt" wrote in message
...
wrote:


Thank you for the good information Dr Drivel. Yep, you heard!

I used a building with 1970s hot air heating, and it was as I
described. Quite workable, but clearly not as good as hydronic. But as
Drivel kindly pointed out, all these issues are quite overcomeable.

Dribble

Lord Hall, stop pretending to be someone else. You are not Matt, you are
Lord Hall, who resides at Makita Palace.

"Doctor Drivel" wrote:


"Matt" wrote in message
.. .
wrote:


Thank you for the good information Dr Drivel. Yep, you heard!

I used a building with 1970s hot air heating, and it was as I
described. Quite workable, but clearly not as good as hydronic. But as
Drivel kindly pointed out, all these issues are quite overcomeable.

Dribble

Lord Hall, stop pretending to be someone else. You are not Matt, you are
Lord Hall, who resides at Makita Palace.

Dribble I'm not Lord Hall, never have been, never will be.

I must admit I do have a few Makita tools though.

I could quote you the serial numbers of those tools in exchange for
the builders name of your "Aston Martin" engine and the last digit of
the engine number.

--

"Matt" who is Lord Hall wrote in message
...
"Doctor Drivel" wrote:


"Matt" who is Lord Hall wrote in message
.. .
wrote:


Thank you for the good information Dr Drivel. Yep, you heard!

I used a building with 1970s hot air heating, and it was as I
described. Quite workable, but clearly not as good as hydronic. But as
Drivel kindly pointed out, all these issues are quite overcomeable.

Dribble

Lord Hall, stop pretending to be someone else. You are not Matt, you are
Lord Hall, who resides at Makita Palace.

Dribble I'm not Lord Hall, never have been, never will be.

Matty boy, you are Lord Hall, and you have a shed full of Makitas.

I must admit I do have a few Makita tools though.

Lord Hall has these.

I could quote you the serial numbers of those tools in exchange for
the builders name of your "Aston Martin" engine and the last digit of
the engine number.

You could. Now Lord Hall, I really want to know your Makita serial numbers.
I really do.