Shower Problems Resolved, Possibly!?
 

Hello All

For those of you that were following my shower problems:

I had the shower engineer in today (plumber!) and he found out what was
causing the cycling of the pump.

For the cycling of the pump after the hot water tap was turned off he
told me to fit a non return valve in the hot water output from the HWC
which was advice given on this forum. 10 out of 10

For the pulsing of the pump which would occur at anytime was because
the cold water tank for the shower was lower than the cold water tank
for the HWC. The difference in head was causing the hot water to be
pushed through the pump down the hot water supply pipe to the shower,
through the valve, up to the pump and through into the cold water tank.
This is also why my overflow had been running!!! If you felt the cold
water pipe it was hot!

So my plan of action is to fit the non return valve and to raise the
shower cold water tank to be level with the other. If this doesn't work
then non return valves will be fitted.

Will raising the cold water tank give me more pressure too and hence a
better shower experience? it will need to be raised another metre or
will this be negligable? if not I will just install Non return valves
in the shower supply pipes.

According to the plumber I need a stronger pump to provide me with my
ideal shower experience, he also stated that other body jets that were
finer would provide more pressure, so pete your idea of using wire
insulation may not be so bad after all! :)

Thanks for your help as usual

Cheers

Richard

So my plan of action is to fit the non return valve and to raise the
shower cold water tank to be level with the other. If this doesn't work
then non return valves will be fitted.

There is actually a safety issue here. It is normal for the cold supply for
the shower to be taken from the same tank as the hot water, but slightly
lower, so the hot runs out first. With separate tanks, you've got the chance
that the cold tank will deplete before the hot and scalding would result.

You should move both outlets to one tank (cold slightly below the hot) and
link the two tanks together. You suggest it is practical to have them at the
same level. Simply connecting them together with a horizontal pipe or two at
low level is enough (22mm or 28mm). You can even keep the two ball valves,
for additional flow.

Will raising the cold water tank give me more pressure too and hence a
better shower experience? it will need to be raised another metre or
will this be negligable? if not I will just install Non return valves
in the shower supply pipes.

A cheap pump will produce about 1 bar. A really good top of the range pump
will only be 3 bar. Raising a tank by a metre will increase pressure by
about 0.1 bar. The difference will not be great. However, you should still
do it for the safety reasons stated.

Christian.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
wrote:


For the pulsing of the pump which would occur at anytime was because
the cold water tank for the shower was lower than the cold water tank
for the HWC. The difference in head was causing the hot water to be
pushed through the pump down the hot water supply pipe to the shower,
through the valve, up to the pump and through into the cold water
tank. This is also why my overflow had been running!!! If you felt
the cold water pipe it was hot!

I don't you recall you telling us earlier that the shower's cold feed is at
a different pressure from the hot feed - that explains a lot!

Will raising the cold water tank give me more pressure too and hence a
better shower experience? it will need to be raised another metre or
will this be negligable? if not I will just install Non return valves
in the shower supply pipes.

It will make some difference, but it won't be dramatic - but you really need
the hot and cold feeds to be at the same pressure rather than frigging about
with non-return valves - which will impede the flow, anyway! Is there any
reason why the cold feed can't come from the *same* tank that feeds the hot
water system? That is the usual arrangement.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
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"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...
snip

There is actually a safety issue here. It is normal for the cold supply
for
the shower to be taken from the same tank as the hot water, but slightly
lower, so the hot runs out first. With separate tanks, you've got the
chance
that the cold tank will deplete before the hot and scalding would result.

You should move both outlets to one tank (cold slightly below the hot) and
link the two tanks together. You suggest it is practical to have them at
the
same level. Simply connecting them together with a horizontal pipe or two
at
low level is enough (22mm or 28mm). You can even keep the two ball valves,
for additional flow.

Snip

And don't say it will never happen water running out. In my current house my
wife has had the shower go cold twice (after I have finished mine, so thats
OK) once as the loft ball cock has scaled up and stuck in the up posistion
and other time after fitting a water softener the feed pipe to the tank was
blocked by all the loose bits of crap that had previously been stuck in the
pipe work. Both times shower went cold as hot ran out first as the hot feed
is taken from higher up in the tank.
..

Thanks Christian, the shower valve will actually cut out if the cold
water supply fails. Someone already mentioned this to me in one of my
other posts.

Cheers

Richard

Thanks Christian, the shower valve will actually cut out if the cold
water supply fails. Someone already mentioned this to me in one of my
other posts.

At least, that's the hope!

I would say that the differential outlet positions is a far more reliable
mechanism that anything that would be implemented in a shower valve.

If you're going to move the tank anyway, you're going to have to replumb
that connection, so it might as well as be to the other tank.

Christian.

Set Square wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
wrote:


For the pulsing of the pump which would occur at anytime was because
the cold water tank for the shower was lower than the cold water tank
for the HWC. The difference in head was causing the hot water to be
pushed through the pump down the hot water supply pipe to the shower,
through the valve, up to the pump and through into the cold water
tank. This is also why my overflow had been running!!! If you felt
the cold water pipe it was hot!

I don't you recall you telling us earlier that the shower's cold feed is at
a different pressure from the hot feed - that explains a lot!

I definately did in one of my other posts, it may of been burried in a
reply somewhere. I thought that the pump would of taken care of this
being a twin impellor doesn't that do something with equalising
pressure?



Will raising the cold water tank give me more pressure too and hence a
better shower experience? it will need to be raised another metre or
will this be negligable? if not I will just install Non return valves
in the shower supply pipes.

It will make some difference, but it won't be dramatic - but you really need
the hot and cold feeds to be at the same pressure rather than frigging about
with non-return valves - which will impede the flow, anyway! Is there any
reason why the cold feed can't come from the *same* tank that feeds the hot
water system? That is the usual arrangement.

Not really apart from the fact the cold water tank is pretty small that
feeds the HWC and I would need to get a bigger one. The reason I used a
seperate one was becuase it was there already, it used to feed an old
power shower. Another issue I have is that the cold water tank feeding
the HWC doesn't appear to have an overflow from it!!!! that needs
sorting too.

So If I raised the cold water tank for the shower to the same level as
the one that feeds the HWC the pressures would be the same and problems
should go away and I also could get a slight performance increase.

Cheers

Richard

--
Cheers,
Set Square
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I tested it and it worked.

the other tank is pretty small and I dont think would cope with feeding
a 3 bar pump as well as a HWC. I would have to
get a bigger one.

Cheers

Richard

Ahhhh! I see sorry ignore my other posts regarding not enough capacity.
The two tanks will be linked!!!!!
must read things properly.

Gotcha.

I think I will do that after all.

Thanks

Richard

the other tank is pretty small and I dont think would cope with feeding
a 3 bar pump as well as a HWC. I would have to
get a bigger one.

You can just link the two you have. No need to spend money (except on a
couple of tank connectors and a short length of pipe.

Christian.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
wrote:


I definately did in one of my other posts, it may of been burried in a
reply somewhere. I thought that the pump would of taken care of this
being a twin impellor doesn't that do something with equalising
pressure?


Not when it isn't running!

That's why you get some flow from hot to cold when the valve is in a certain
position - thus triggering the flow switch!
--
Cheers,
Set Square
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