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  #1   Report Post  
Zymurgy
 
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Default Chasing computer wiring (Cat-5) into plaster over brick wall

How ?!

Chasing the wall out is the easy bit (SDS gouge !) but do I put into
thin conduit (there's about 6 wired to get in) and plaster over, how
do I keep in place whilst I plaster ?

Any help appeeciated.

Thanks

Paul.
  #4   Report Post  
Dave Liquorice
 
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Default Chasing computer wiring (Cat-5) into plaster over brick wall

On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 20:05:41 GMT, Simon Avery wrote:

Up to you. The plaster won't hurt it, and it's not mains nor gas nor
water, so it won't hurt anyone if you drill into it.


True but thing of the agro trying to repair it...

Steel capping is cheap and easy to fit. Though to be honest for LV
stuff like this I'd be looking at a larger duct, say 3" square in a
hidden corner somewhere even if it extends cable runs considerably.
'Cause as sure as eggs is eggs something will need to be changed or
added in the next 10 years.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



  #5   Report Post  
Zymurgy
 
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Default Chasing computer wiring (Cat-5) into plaster over brick wall

"Dave Liquorice" wrote
Simon Avery wrote:

Up to you. The plaster won't hurt it, and it's not mains nor gas nor
water, so it won't hurt anyone if you drill into it.


True but thing of the agro trying to repair it...

Steel capping is cheap and easy to fit. Though to be honest for LV
stuff like this I'd be looking at a larger duct, say 3" square in a
hidden corner somewhere even if it extends cable runs considerably.
'Cause as sure as eggs is eggs something will need to be changed or
added in the next 10 years.


Great, thanks for the advice, however after gouging a sample out. the
plaster is only 10mm thick, so there'll be very little covering it
when I plaster over.

Is there any mileage in going through the first course and threading
the wires down the cavity ? I don't think theres much chance in going
down through the plaster, as theres no space for conduit, so i'd have
to plaster over the 'bare' wires.

I may just go wireless !!

Cheers

Paul.


  #6   Report Post  
Dave Plowman
 
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Default Chasing computer wiring (Cat-5) into plaster over brick wall

In article ,
Zymurgy wrote:
Great, thanks for the advice, however after gouging a sample out. the
plaster is only 10mm thick, so there'll be very little covering it
when I plaster over.


Tack it in place with cable clips and simply plaster over the lot.

--
*You can't have everything, where would you put it?

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn
  #7   Report Post  
Dave Liquorice
 
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Default Chasing computer wiring (Cat-5) into plaster over brick wall

On 17 Aug 2003 02:16:40 -0700, Zymurgy wrote:

... after gouging a sample out. the plaster is only 10mm thick, so
there'll be very little covering it when I plaster over.


Steel capping is not that thick you should have a couple of mm over
the top, ample. Anyway you have an SDS cutting a shallow grove in the
wall under the plaster shouldn't be a problem. What is the wall made
of? Probably block, very soft and easy to cut.

Is there any mileage in going through the first course and threading
the wires down the cavity ?


Generally wires should not be in the cavity. It's quite easy for them
to form a damp bridge or feed any vermin that get in. Anyway shouldn't
that cavity be filled with insulation. Threading stuff through the
insulation could vary from fun to impossible.

I may just go wireless !!


I wouldn't, cable is cheap, fast, secure and reliable. You can also
feed other signals down Cat5, like telephones, audio, video etc.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



  #8   Report Post  
Simon Avery
 
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Default Chasing computer wiring (Cat-5) into plaster over brick wall

"Dave Liquorice" wrote:

Hello Dave

Up to you. The plaster won't hurt it, and it's not mains
nor gas nor water, so it won't hurt anyone if you drill
into it.

DL| True but thing of the agro trying to repair it...


But chance of it happening is pretty small, especially if you're still
living there and wired properly. (No bends, verticals to visible point
etc)

DL| Steel capping is cheap and easy to fit. Though to be honest
DL| for LV stuff like this I'd be looking at a larger duct, say
DL| 3" square in a hidden corner somewhere even if it extends
DL| cable runs considerably. 'Cause as sure as eggs is eggs
DL| something will need to be changed or added in the next 10
DL| years.


F'sure, but I expect it to still be using copper (fibre being a maybe
for commercial properties) so just swapping the connectors and leaving
the wiring in situ should be ok for most upgrades.

Hell, I'm still using Coax for my LAN here. It works!

--
Simon Avery, Dartmoor, UK
uk.d-i-y FAQ: http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/

  #9   Report Post  
David W.E. Roberts
 
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Default Chasing computer wiring (Cat-5) into plaster over brick wall


"Zymurgy" wrote in message
om...
snip
I may just go wireless !!

Cheers

Paul.


Give this serious consideration.
Unless you have a really bandwidth-intensive application between two PCs
which are in different rooms you don't need cable.
If you have this type of application try to site the two PCs close together
and use cable :-)
Wiring the house can be a bugger and you still have to have a socket at the
other end then run a cable to your PC - and as soon as you re-arrange the
furniture the socket is in the wrong place.
With power you usually have several outlets in each room - are you going to
do the same with CAT5?

Wireless is a good answer as long as you don't have a wierd house
construction (loads of metal in walls etc.) and you aren't in a very high
risk area for network hacking (wherever that is).
WEP is flawed but takes a while to crack.
Changing your keys regularly (only takes a few minutes) helps.
MAC address filtering also helps.
The range is limited - street outside your house and the house next door if
you are lucky - more people complain about lack of range than of too much
range.

The setup is simple and you can put your PCs where you want (within reason)
and move them around to suit.

My setup is totally wireless at the moment until I get the office back
together and the wired LAN back in place.
It doesn't seem to cause any problems.
More important is to use a router between yourself and the Internet :-)

Cheers
Dave R


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Dave Liquorice
 
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Default Chasing computer wiring (Cat-5) into plaster over brick wall

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 13:41:49 GMT, Simon Avery wrote:

F'sure, but I expect it to still be using copper (fibre being a
maybe for commercial properties) so just swapping the connectors and
leaving the wiring in situ should be ok for most upgrades.


Assuming that the format of the copper is correct. Mind you you can't
go far wrong with the good old twisted pair, almost anything can be
made to travel over that, audio, video, data, POTS, ISDN etc etc

Hell, I'm still using Coax for my LAN here. It works!


At 10Mbps? 100Mbps is "standard" now, it does make a noticeable
difference. I expect Gigabit stuff will be "standard" inside 5 years.
How far Gigabit, that expects Cat6 cable, will go on a bit of old Cat5
(not Cat5e) might be interesting but I'd expect it to work over
"domestic" lengths of at most afew tens of metres.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail





  #11   Report Post  
L Reid
 
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Default Chasing computer wiring (Cat-5) into plaster over brick wall

"David W.E. Roberts" wrote in message
...

Give this serious consideration.
Unless you have a really bandwidth-intensive application between two PCs
which are in different rooms you don't need cable.

My setup is totally wireless at the moment until I get the office back
together and the wired LAN back in place.

Cheers
Dave R


Dave, I'm looking into this at the moment (currently got a hard-wired set-up
in one room) and am moving to another property, which currently has 2 cable
connections (1 in livingroom and one in diningroom/sittingroom). I want to
have my PC's upstairs but use the connection in the diningroom. Ideally I'd
like to plug the cable modem into the transmitter and have only that
downstairs (with the PC we use as a router on the other end of it), but
could also go with having the router PC downstairs in the dining room
plugged into the cable modem and then into the wi-fi.

What wireless network are you using, can you advise on how much it might
cost for connections for 3 PC's? Should this be useable upstairs?

Cheers!


  #12   Report Post  
David W.E. Roberts
 
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Default Chasing computer wiring (Cat-5) into plaster over brick wall


"L Reid" wrote in message
...
"David W.E. Roberts" wrote in message
...

Give this serious consideration.
Unless you have a really bandwidth-intensive application between two PCs
which are in different rooms you don't need cable.

My setup is totally wireless at the moment until I get the office back
together and the wired LAN back in place.

Cheers
Dave R


Dave, I'm looking into this at the moment (currently got a hard-wired

set-up
in one room) and am moving to another property, which currently has 2

cable
connections (1 in livingroom and one in diningroom/sittingroom). I want to
have my PC's upstairs but use the connection in the diningroom. Ideally

I'd
like to plug the cable modem into the transmitter and have only that
downstairs (with the PC we use as a router on the other end of it), but
could also go with having the router PC downstairs in the dining room
plugged into the cable modem and then into the wi-fi.

What wireless network are you using, can you advise on how much it might
cost for connections for 3 PC's? Should this be useable upstairs?

Cheers!


If you have a cable modem (with an Ethernet interface) then you need a cable
router/WiFi AP.

I have just bought

http://www.dabs.com/products/prod-in...quicklinx=2N95

for £52.87 and it works fine for me (not on cable, but as an alternative to
an AP on my ADSL LAN - long story).

I also bought a pair of USB adapters

http://www.dabs.com/products/prod-in...quicklinx=178Z

although I paid £50 for a pair :-(
Price has just gone down again.

I favour USB adapters because you can position them to get the best signal.

So roughly £50 for the AP/router, (3* £25) = £75 for 3 adapters gives you
£125 for a 3 PC setup.

Should be O.K. with the AP downstairs and the PCs upstairs but YMMV - each
house is different.

Note that this is a budget router so it doesn't have a serial port for low
level configuration and AFAIK doesn't have a CLI via Telnet either.
This means that if you can't do what you want via the web interface you are
snookered.

Having said that, if your needs are straightforward this seems a great
little router.
For the price you get:
all the router basics including NAT, DHCP, DNS.
wireless LAN with 128 bit WEP and MAC address filtering
wired LAN with 4 port 100Mb hub.

Other places to go: alt.internet.wireless NG which is always helpful.

HTH
Dave R



  #13   Report Post  
Zymurgy
 
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Default Chasing computer wiring (Cat-5) into plaster over brick wall

"Dave Liquorice" wrote
Simon Avery wrote:

Up to you. The plaster won't hurt it, and it's not mains nor gas nor
water, so it won't hurt anyone if you drill into it.


Though to be honest for LV stuff like this I'd be looking at a larger duct,
say 3" square in a hidden corner somewhere even if it extends cable runs
considerably.


Indeed. After an exploratory vertical chase, I pulled off the skirting
and chased horizontally to the corner.

Then I went out and bought a reel of Cat-5e.

I'll put a vertical conduit in the corner where no-one will notice.

Thanks for the lateral thinking !

Cheers,

Paul.
  #14   Report Post  
Simon Avery
 
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Default Chasing computer wiring (Cat-5) into plaster over brick wall

"Dave Liquorice" wrote:

Hello Dave

F'sure, but I expect it to still be using copper (fibre
being a maybe for commercial properties) so just swapping
the connectors and leaving the wiring in situ should be ok
for most upgrades.

DL| Assuming that the format of the copper is correct. Mind you
DL| you can't go far wrong with the good old twisted pair,
DL| almost anything can be made to travel over that, audio,
DL| video, data, POTS, ISDN etc etc


Indeed, and with wireless everything now so cheap, it's getting harder
to justify wiring, imo. Just need a rx/tx widget in each room and
everything in it talks to that.

Are computerised houses coming more popular? Don't hear much of them.

Hell, I'm still using Coax for my LAN here. It works!

DL| At 10Mbps? 100Mbps is "standard" now, it does make a
DL| noticeable difference. I expect Gigabit stuff will be


Ack, but 10 "works" fast enough for my purposes.

--
Simon Avery, Dartmoor, UK
uk.d-i-y FAQ: http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/

  #15   Report Post  
Dave Liquorice
 
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Default Chasing computer wiring (Cat-5) into plaster over brick wall

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 08:57:50 GMT, Simon Avery wrote:

Indeed, and with wireless everything now so cheap, it's getting
harder to justify wiring, imo. Just need a rx/tx widget in each room
and everything in it talks to that.


I don't know of a single wireless tx/rx widget that will do video,
audio, LAN, POTS and ISDN. Several wireless widgets yes but some share
the same frequency band (2.4Ghz) and that is getting really rather
crowded and speed/reliabilty are real issues.

Are computerised houses coming more popular? Don't hear much of
them.


Define computerised? Nearly all larger domestic white goods have a
microcontroller inside now, dsihwashers, washing machines, uWaves,
heating controllers etc. They don't talk to each other yet though,
with the advent of things like Bluetooth I wonder how long it will be
before they do but is there and real need?

Ack, but 10 "works" fast enough for my purposes.


300bps modems where fast enough at one time, thats how I started this
computer comms lark back in the late '80s. I now have a 100Mbps net
connection... (Well thats the speed into the WAN NIC, there is an RF
bottle neck which reduces the throughput to around 1Mbps in practice).

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail





  #16   Report Post  
Dave Plowman
 
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Default Chasing computer wiring (Cat-5) into plaster over brick wall

In article ,
Simon Avery wrote:
Indeed, and with wireless everything now so cheap, it's getting harder
to justify wiring, imo. Just need a rx/tx widget in each room and
everything in it talks to that.


No it's not - a wired link will always be better.

--
*How come you never hear about gruntled employees? *

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn
  #17   Report Post  
Andrew Gabriel
 
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Default Chasing computer wiring (Cat-5) into plaster over brick wall

In article ,
(Simon Avery) writes:
"Dave Liquorice" wrote:

Hello Dave

F'sure, but I expect it to still be using copper (fibre
being a maybe for commercial properties) so just swapping
the connectors and leaving the wiring in situ should be ok
for most upgrades.

DL| Assuming that the format of the copper is correct. Mind you
DL| you can't go far wrong with the good old twisted pair,
DL| almost anything can be made to travel over that, audio,
DL| video, data, POTS, ISDN etc etc


Indeed, and with wireless everything now so cheap, it's getting harder
to justify wiring, imo. Just need a rx/tx widget in each room and
everything in it talks to that.


Yes, the new building regs requiring conduit to be installed
in new houses for Internet access should just be coming into
force as the last of the LAN cabling completely vanishes ;-)
Yes, you guessed it, that's yet another stunning comedy show
by the office of the deputy prime minister...

Personally, I will stick with wired LAN links for the
foreseable future, but I doubt most people will.

Are computerised houses coming more popular? Don't hear much of them.


Depends quite what you mean, but mine is. The family finds
it quite amusing when they visit me that, for instance, the
landing light comes on automatically if you walk out of
one of the bedrooms and it's dark outside, and at Christmas
time, the fairy lights on the tree go off when there's no one
in the room to see them [catch fire].

--
Andrew Gabriel
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David W.E. Roberts
 
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Default Chasing computer wiring (Cat-5) into plaster over brick wall


"Dave Plowman" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Simon Avery wrote:
Indeed, and with wireless everything now so cheap, it's getting harder
to justify wiring, imo. Just need a rx/tx widget in each room and
everything in it talks to that.


No it's not - a wired link will always be better.

--
*How come you never hear about gruntled employees? *

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn


Always be better?
Even if your requirements are to connect from across a busy street?
Or to connect from the bottom of the garden?
Wireless is perfectly acceptable for most domestic users this year - there
will be a minority with more complex needs but "always better"?

Sir, methinks you are a Troll!

Dave R


  #19   Report Post  
Simon Avery
 
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Default Chasing computer wiring (Cat-5) into plaster over brick wall

Dave Plowman wrote:

Hello Dave

Indeed, and with wireless everything now so cheap, it's
getting harder to justify wiring, imo. Just need a rx/tx
widget in each room and everything in it talks to that.


DP| No it's not - a wired link will always be better.


I said "imo", and it is. yo is obviously different, neither is set in
stone. We're theorising what might happen in ten years' time - it's
better to be a bit vague I think, rather than state what's true now
and ignore any chance for it to change.

Tell you what, ask me again in ten years and I might agree with you.


--
Simon Avery, Dartmoor, UK
uk.d-i-y FAQ: http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/

  #20   Report Post  
James Hart
 
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Default Chasing computer wiring (Cat-5) into plaster over brick wall

Simon Avery wrote:

Hey, I live in the country - the government's drive for broadband
seems to have petered out once the cherry picking of built up areas
has nearly been exhausted. My local exchange has just reached the
trigger level, but I'm too far away from it for adsl, or even aadsl to
work so until wireless broadband finds its way down here, my only
option is isdn. Can't blame the telco's, can't really blame the
government, I just wish they'd stop making promises they can't
deliver.

AG| Personally, I will stick with wired LAN links for the
AG| foreseable future, but I doubt most people will.


Maybe it's better - I don't know. If wireless is reliable, fast, cheap
and convenient in 10 years, can't really see a need for wired, but I
could be wrong.


http://wrbb.net/
They're having problems getting the gear approved at the moment but the idea
looks sound enough, it might be a while before the network spreads around
the country but look at how mobile phones started.
There's a bit of interest at the moment in pubs becoming WiFi mini-ISPs,
there's a lot of kit out there at the moment that can be linked by it and it
makes sense instead of wiring everything together:- jukebox, quiz machine,
internet terminal, email facility, advertising screens etc.

--
James...
http://www.jameshart.co.uk/




  #21   Report Post  
Andy Hall
 
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Default Chasing computer wiring (Cat-5) into plaster over brick wall

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 17:10:00 GMT, (Simon
Avery) wrote:

Dave Plowman wrote:

Hello Dave

Indeed, and with wireless everything now so cheap, it's
getting harder to justify wiring, imo. Just need a rx/tx
widget in each room and everything in it talks to that.


DP| No it's not - a wired link will always be better.


I said "imo", and it is. yo is obviously different, neither is set in
stone. We're theorising what might happen in ten years' time - it's
better to be a bit vague I think, rather than state what's true now
and ignore any chance for it to change.

Tell you what, ask me again in ten years and I might agree with you.


Wireless networking is good and useful technology, no question, even
with the incompetence of the security surrounding it - that's another
story.

However at the lower cost end of the market, with 802.11b (11Mbit
gross, 3-5Mbit net if you are lucky), the speed may well not be good
enough for some applications such as video or high speed visualisation
which may well become consumerised in the next few years. Even the
newer 802.11g stuff which is purported to be 5x faster may not be that
adequate.

Also, all of these technologies at present are shared medium - you are
creating what amounts to be a hub. If all you want to do or foresee
doing is sharing a "broadband" connection at today's speeds and
perhaps a printer, and you want to do it at home or small office, then
this will be OK. If you are doing file sharing or other server
based things, then probably not. I think that the home server is
likely to be an increasingly popular concept over the next few years,
and with some of the suggested functionality, low speed networks may
become a problem.

If you view that the sub £100 prices per node are OK and that you will
upgrade by replacement, then it's a reasonable position to take, but
wireless technology is changing pretty fast in comparison to wired
systems.

Radio spectrum space at usable frequency ranges for the application
may become the limiting factor.



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
  #22   Report Post  
Andy Hall
 
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Default Chasing computer wiring (Cat-5) into plaster over brick wall

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 17:10:31 GMT, (Simon
Avery) wrote:

(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

Hello Andrew

Indeed, and with wireless everything now so cheap, it's
getting harder to justify wiring, imo. Just need a rx/tx
widget in each room and everything in it talks to that.


AG| Yes, the new building regs requiring conduit to be installed
AG| in new houses for Internet access should just be coming into
AG| force as the last of the LAN cabling completely vanishes ;-)
AG| Yes, you guessed it, that's yet another stunning comedy show
AG| by the office of the deputy prime minister...


Hey, I live in the country - the government's drive for broadband
seems to have petered out once the cherry picking of built up areas
has nearly been exhausted. My local exchange has just reached the
trigger level, but I'm too far away from it for adsl, or even aadsl to
work so until wireless broadband finds its way down here, my only
option is isdn. Can't blame the telco's, can't really blame the
government, I just wish they'd stop making promises they can't
deliver.


Is a community wireless solution an option for your area or are you
too spread out?


AG| Personally, I will stick with wired LAN links for the
AG| foreseable future, but I doubt most people will.


Maybe it's better - I don't know. If wireless is reliable, fast, cheap
and convenient in 10 years, can't really see a need for wired, but I
could be wrong.

Are computerised houses coming more popular? Don't hear
much of them.

AG| Depends quite what you mean, but mine is. The family finds
AG| it quite amusing when they visit me that, for instance, the
AG| landing light comes on automatically if you walk out of
AG| one of the bedrooms and it's dark outside, and at Christmas
AG| time, the fairy lights on the tree go off when there's no
AG| one in the room to see them [catch fire].


Nice! I was thinking of a smart house setup, central computer
controlling the environment, operating devices, doing many of the
automated chores etc. Read too much sci-fi to want a full sentient
house, though - imagine what it would try to do when you started
drilling holes in its skin?


Do you remember the Star Trek episode where they found silicon based
beings and the doctor treated an injured one by filling it with
Polyfilla?


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
  #23   Report Post  
Andy Hall
 
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Default Chasing computer wiring (Cat-5) into plaster over brick wall

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 20:19:36 +0100, "James Hart"
wrote:

Simon Avery wrote:

Hey, I live in the country - the government's drive for broadband
seems to have petered out once the cherry picking of built up areas
has nearly been exhausted. My local exchange has just reached the
trigger level, but I'm too far away from it for adsl, or even aadsl to
work so until wireless broadband finds its way down here, my only
option is isdn. Can't blame the telco's, can't really blame the
government, I just wish they'd stop making promises they can't
deliver.

AG| Personally, I will stick with wired LAN links for the
AG| foreseable future, but I doubt most people will.


Maybe it's better - I don't know. If wireless is reliable, fast, cheap
and convenient in 10 years, can't really see a need for wired, but I
could be wrong.


http://wrbb.net/
They're having problems getting the gear approved at the moment but the idea
looks sound enough, it might be a while before the network spreads around
the country but look at how mobile phones started.


Interesting idea and I hope that they are successful.


There's a bit of interest at the moment in pubs becoming WiFi mini-ISPs,
there's a lot of kit out there at the moment that can be linked by it and it
makes sense instead of wiring everything together:- jukebox, quiz machine,
internet terminal, email facility, advertising screens etc.


This is like the Starbucks idea in the U.S. The only thing was that
they found that people hung around for too long without drinking
enough latte.

I quite often use the Telia Homerun service on business trips in
Scandinavia. They have hotspots in places like the airports, major
hotels and certain parts of major cities. You can have an ongoing
subscription, but you can also buy 24hr scratch cards for about £10
which have a password. It's then possible to have access in any hot
spot location during that time without paying again. Compared with
being gouged by hotels for phone charges for modem access, it's a good
deal.

A lot of hotels in Germany are implementing similar systems and there
are a few starting to appear here as well.




..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
  #24   Report Post  
Dave Liquorice
 
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Default Chasing computer wiring (Cat-5) into plaster over brick wall

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 20:25:48 +0100, Andy Hall wrote:

Is a community wireless solution an option for your area or are you
too spread out?


It's worth looking at but to do well needs a fair bit of capital, for
the net connection, local servers acces points and any backbone links
required to cover outlying areas. This capital can probably be found
from the relevant Area Development Agency, Rural EDZ, County Council,
education and other funding bodies. Getting and making the thing
sustainable is the hard bit.

Says him from the Broadband Capital of England, Alston Moor, about as
remote as you can get in England. Penetration of wireless broadband to
homes is about 25%, the national average (where broadband is
avialable) is around 4%.

Read too much sci-fi to want a full sentient house, though -
imagine what it would try to do when you started drilling holes in
its skin?


You wouldn't have to, you'd just need to talk to it nicely and it
would produce a suitable means if hanging the picture for you.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



  #25   Report Post  
Andy Hall
 
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Default Chasing computer wiring (Cat-5) into plaster over brick wall

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 21:59:32 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 20:25:48 +0100, Andy Hall wrote:

Is a community wireless solution an option for your area or are you
too spread out?


It's worth looking at but to do well needs a fair bit of capital, for
the net connection, local servers acces points and any backbone links
required to cover outlying areas. This capital can probably be found
from the relevant Area Development Agency, Rural EDZ, County Council,
education and other funding bodies. Getting and making the thing
sustainable is the hard bit.

Says him from the Broadband Capital of England, Alston Moor, about as
remote as you can get in England. Penetration of wireless broadband to
homes is about 25%, the national average (where broadband is
avialable) is around 4%.


Have you done that on point to point links?


I'm always amazed by what the Nowegians manage with wireless
technology in difficult situations like this. It costs, but it can be
done.

Part of the problem in the UK is that BT grossly overmarketed
"broadband" in terms of high capability and low price and then
realised that they couldn't deliver.

As a result, people have come to expect service at a price below what
is required to pay for the infrastructure and sustain a business.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl


  #26   Report Post  
Simon Avery
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chasing computer wiring (Cat-5) into plaster over brick wall

"James Hart" wrote:

Hello James

JH| http://wrbb.net/


One of many I've checked out, but sadly none are anywhere near me.
(10M S of Exeter)

JH| They're having problems getting the gear approved at the
JH| moment but the idea looks sound enough, it might be a while
JH| before the network spreads around the country but look at
JH| how mobile phones started. There's a bit of interest at the
JH| moment in pubs becoming WiFi mini-ISPs, there's a lot of kit
JH| out there at the moment that can be linked by it and
JH| it makes sense instead of wiring everything together:-
JH| jukebox, quiz machine, internet terminal, email facility,
JH| advertising screens etc.


Yeah, that's not a bad idea at all. TBH I'm not fussed how I get a
better connection, as long as it's fat and has low latency.

--
Simon Avery, Dartmoor, UK
uk.d-i-y FAQ: http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/

  #27   Report Post  
Simon Avery
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chasing computer wiring (Cat-5) into plaster over brick wall

Andy Hall wrote:

Hello Andy

Hey, I live in the country - the government's drive for
broadband seems to have petered out once the cherry picking
of built up areas has nearly been exhausted. My local


AH| Is a community wireless solution an option for your area or
AH| are you too spread out?


It's possible, I am only a mile or so away from a village, although
local geography means it isn't line-of-sight. Not sure how fussy that
bit is, or whether I could get away with running some coax half a mile
to the top of the hill without anyone noticing.

I am LOS to a pretty major aerial system (Haldon, S of Exeter) though,
which handles much of the microwave traffic in the area. Be nice if I
could get something from there, but they probably wouldn't appreciate
me climbing it at night with a pringles can and silver foil.

devices, doing many of the automated chores etc. Read too
much sci-fi to want a full sentient house, though - imagine
what it would try to do when you started drilling holes in
its skin?

AH| Do you remember the Star Trek episode where they found
AH| silicon based beings and the doctor treated an injured one
AH| by filling it with Polyfilla?


! Nope, that one must've missed me by!

--
Simon Avery, Dartmoor, UK
uk.d-i-y FAQ: http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/

  #28   Report Post  
Dave Liquorice
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chasing computer wiring (Cat-5) into plaster over brick wall

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 22:33:02 +0100, Andy Hall wrote:

Says him from the Broadband Capital of England, Alston Moor, about
as remote as you can get in England. Penetration of wireless
broadband to homes is about 25%, the national average (where
broadband is avialable) is around 4%.


Have you done that on point to point links?


Not quite sure what you mean. There is a backbone structure, ie. PtP
links, connecting a number of access points. The access points would
be PtMP in this context. The length of the PtP links varies from less
than 500m to over 16km, some of the PtMP links are well over 2km.

I'm always amazed by what the Nowegians manage with wireless
technology in difficult situations like this. It costs, but it can
be done.


Off the shelf kit though nothing "special", choose your (external)
antenna to make up the loss on the link due to distance. Some are
little flat patches, others are 24" dishes. Does need to be line of
sight.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



  #29   Report Post  
Andy Hall
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chasing computer wiring (Cat-5) into plaster over brick wall

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 23:46:35 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 22:33:02 +0100, Andy Hall wrote:

Says him from the Broadband Capital of England, Alston Moor, about
as remote as you can get in England. Penetration of wireless
broadband to homes is about 25%, the national average (where
broadband is avialable) is around 4%.


Have you done that on point to point links?


Not quite sure what you mean. There is a backbone structure, ie. PtP
links, connecting a number of access points. The access points would
be PtMP in this context. The length of the PtP links varies from less
than 500m to over 16km, some of the PtMP links are well over 2km.


That's what I was getting at.



I'm always amazed by what the Nowegians manage with wireless
technology in difficult situations like this. It costs, but it can
be done.


Off the shelf kit though nothing "special", choose your (external)
antenna to make up the loss on the link due to distance. Some are
little flat patches, others are 24" dishes. Does need to be line of
sight.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
  #30   Report Post  
Andy Hall
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chasing computer wiring (Cat-5) into plaster over brick wall

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 21:58:03 GMT, (Simon
Avery) wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:

Hello Andy

Hey, I live in the country - the government's drive for
broadband seems to have petered out once the cherry picking
of built up areas has nearly been exhausted. My local


AH| Is a community wireless solution an option for your area or
AH| are you too spread out?


It's possible, I am only a mile or so away from a village, although
local geography means it isn't line-of-sight. Not sure how fussy that
bit is, or whether I could get away with running some coax half a mile
to the top of the hill without anyone noticing.


Not at 2.4GHz.

Is there perhaps somebody at a suitable point who could host an access
point that would be LoS to you and the village?




I am LOS to a pretty major aerial system (Haldon, S of Exeter) though,
which handles much of the microwave traffic in the area. Be nice if I
could get something from there, but they probably wouldn't appreciate
me climbing it at night with a pringles can and silver foil.


No, and you'd need to be careful not to stand in front of any of the
waveguides. :-)



devices, doing many of the automated chores etc. Read too
much sci-fi to want a full sentient house, though - imagine
what it would try to do when you started drilling holes in
its skin?

AH| Do you remember the Star Trek episode where they found
AH| silicon based beings and the doctor treated an injured one
AH| by filling it with Polyfilla?


! Nope, that one must've missed me by!



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl


  #31   Report Post  
David W.E. Roberts
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chasing computer wiring (Cat-5) into plaster over brick wall


"Dave Plowman" wrote in message
...
In article ,
David W.E. Roberts wrote:
Always be better?
Even if your requirements are to connect from across a busy street?


Err, how many people have houses that span a street?

Or to connect from the bottom of the garden?


Are you just inventing reasons?

Wireless is perfectly acceptable for most domestic users this year -
there will be a minority with more complex needs but "always better"?


I've not yet come across a wireless link that is as good as a cable. It
might well be for some of the time, though.

Sir, methinks you are a Troll!


Not. I really can't see the point in complicating matters.


I am not inventing reasons :-)

(1) I have my (IT illiterate) next door neighbour on my WLAN so I can
maintain his system for him and download Windows and virus updates without
spending hours tying up his phone line.
(2) I am considering adding the folks across the road for similar reasons.
(3) I like to be able to take the portable into the garden now and then to
work.
(4) At the moment I have no power (or anything else, really) in the new
office/bedroom and I am temporarily running my LAN from the loft, where I
have my ADSL line, ADSL modem/router. and WiFi AP all sitting up there
powered by an extension lead. I have three PCs running in house of the WLAN
and switching from wired to wireless took minutes.
(5) I have no desire to wire the whole house (with consequent mess and
disruption) to provide access for occasional PCs (such as returning
offspring). For Internet surfing and email, wireless fits the bill
admirably.

So there are 5 seperate instances where wirelss is superior to wired because
I don't need high bandwidth and I don't have to run wires.

For any heavy/complex/high bandwidth activities wired is the way to go.
However it is extremely blinkered, even illogical, to state that something
is "always better"; this implies that there is no situation whatsoever where
a wireless link is better than a wired link.
So patently illogical that it had all the hallmarks of a Troll :-)

Cheers
Dave R

P.S. (6) I also like to surf with my PDA when in bed or in other locations
without a wired link :-) Perhaps I should start an "I love WiFi" thread ?



  #32   Report Post  
Dave Plowman
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chasing computer wiring (Cat-5) into plaster over brick wall

In article ,
David W.E. Roberts wrote:
Not. I really can't see the point in complicating matters.


I am not inventing reasons :-)


(1) I have my (IT illiterate) next door neighbour on my WLAN so I can
maintain his system for him and download Windows and virus updates
without spending hours tying up his phone line. (2) I am considering
adding the folks across the road for similar reasons. (3) I like to be
able to take the portable into the garden now and then to work. (4) At
the moment I have no power (or anything else, really) in the new
office/bedroom and I am temporarily running my LAN from the loft, where
I have my ADSL line, ADSL modem/router. and WiFi AP all sitting up there
powered by an extension lead. I have three PCs running in house of the
WLAN and switching from wired to wireless took minutes. (5) I have no
desire to wire the whole house (with consequent mess and disruption) to
provide access for occasional PCs (such as returning offspring). For
Internet surfing and email, wireless fits the bill admirably.


So there are 5 seperate instances where wirelss is superior to wired
because I don't need high bandwidth and I don't have to run wires.


That doesn't make it superior - only more convenient. And I'd point out
that my response was in connection with the average house - not the whole
street.

For any heavy/complex/high bandwidth activities wired is the way to go.
However it is extremely blinkered, even illogical, to state that
something is "always better"; this implies that there is no situation
whatsoever where a wireless link is better than a wired link. So
patently illogical that it had all the hallmarks of a Troll :-)


I stand by what I said. Wireless links may be more convenient, but they
are never better.

--
*Could it be that "I do " is the longest sentence? *

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn
  #33   Report Post  
Jim Ley
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chasing computer wiring (Cat-5) into plaster over brick wall

On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 09:29:33 +0100, Dave Plowman
wrote:

I stand by what I said. Wireless links may be more convenient, but they
are never better.


I think you need to give some reasons, not just assertions, g is cheap
enough, and provides plenty of bandwidth (yes its shared between
machines, but for domestic use it's very rarely saturated, and most
people use hubs not switches so that's the same.)

Jim.
  #34   Report Post  
Simon Avery
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chasing computer wiring (Cat-5) into plaster over brick wall

Dave Plowman wrote:

Hello Dave

For any heavy/complex/high bandwidth activities wired is
the way to go. However it is extremely blinkered, even
illogical, to state that something is "always better";
this implies that there is no situation whatsoever where a
wireless link is better than a wired link. So patently
illogical that it had all the hallmarks of a Troll :-)

DP| I stand by what I said. Wireless links may be more
DP| convenient, but they are never better.


This is devolving into semantics, but "better" is not a particularly
specific word. What's better for you clearly isn't better for David.

"Convenient" can be included in a definition of "better", imo.

--
Simon, who doesn't have any wifi stuff at all.

  #35   Report Post  
Bob Eager
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chasing computer wiring (Cat-5) into plaster over brick wall

On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 00:25:58 UTC, Dave Plowman
wrote:

I've not yet come across a wireless link that is as good as a cable. It
might well be for some of the time, though.


I agree. However, PERHAPS a wireless link might be better down the
garden, if only to save having to bury the cable in a trench...

--
Bob Eager
rde at tavi.co.uk
PC Server 325*4; PS/2s 9585, 8595, 9595*2, 8580*3,
P70, PC/AT..



  #36   Report Post  
Dave Plowman
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chasing computer wiring (Cat-5) into plaster over brick wall

In article ,
Bob Eager wrote:
I've not yet come across a wireless link that is as good as a cable. It
might well be for some of the time, though.


I agree. However, PERHAPS a wireless link might be better down the
garden, if only to save having to bury the cable in a trench...


I can see they have their uses, but since you'll be presumably cabling up
other things in the house at the same time I can't see the point.

--
*Everyone has a photographic memory. Some don't have film *

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn
  #37   Report Post  
Bob Eager
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chasing computer wiring (Cat-5) into plaster over brick wall

On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 22:31:25 UTC, Dave Plowman
wrote:

I can see they have their uses, but since you'll be presumably cabling up
other things in the house at the same time I can't see the point.


Again, I agree. I cabled network, power, telephone, TV, burglar alarm,
antenna
rotator and smoke alarms all at the same time...

--
Bob Eager
rde at tavi.co.uk
PC Server 325*4; PS/2s 9585, 8595, 9595*2, 8580*3,
P70, PC/AT..

  #38   Report Post  
Andy Hall
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chasing computer wiring (Cat-5) into plaster over brick wall

On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 23:31:25 +0100, Dave Plowman
wrote:

In article ,
Bob Eager wrote:
I've not yet come across a wireless link that is as good as a cable. It
might well be for some of the time, though.


I agree. However, PERHAPS a wireless link might be better down the
garden, if only to save having to bury the cable in a trench...


I can see they have their uses, but since you'll be presumably cabling up
other things in the house at the same time I can't see the point.


I have CAT5 all over the house and a lot of outlets. However, I
also have a wireless installation because it is useful with portable
devices like notebooks and PDAs so that they can be used in arbitrary
places without needing to plug them in.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
  #39   Report Post  
Simon Avery
 
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Default Chasing computer wiring (Cat-5) into plaster over brick wall

Hello Dave

DP| I stand by what I said. Wireless links may be more
DP| convenient, but they are never better.


I was reminded of this thread today when my phone line went down. BT,
after playing the "no answer, hold, hold, get disconnected, get lied
to, get disconnected and then hold again for three hours" game with
the teletubbies tell me it'll be at least four days before an engineer
is sent to deal. This has happened six times over the past three
years.

Never had a single outage on my mobile in that time (apart from no
signal in some valleys, which considering where I live is to be
expected).

Stretching the point perhaps, but at least the air never seems to
break.

This probably won't reach you until the 26th though...

--
Simon Avery, Dartmoor, UK
uk.d-i-y FAQ: http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/

  #40   Report Post  
Dave Plowman
 
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Default Chasing computer wiring (Cat-5) into plaster over brick wall

In article ,
Simon Avery wrote:
DP| I stand by what I said. Wireless links may be more
DP| convenient, but they are never better.


I was reminded of this thread today when my phone line went down. BT,
after playing the "no answer, hold, hold, get disconnected, get lied
to, get disconnected and then hold again for three hours" game with
the teletubbies tell me it'll be at least four days before an engineer
is sent to deal. This has happened six times over the past three
years.


I'd assume if anyone installs their own cable LAN, they'll be capable of
fixing any faults that may arise (unlikely) and not have to rely on an
engineer.

Never had a single outage on my mobile in that time (apart from no
signal in some valleys, which considering where I live is to be
expected).


However, should a wireless network fail I'd guess it *would* be a job for
an engineer - or more likely your credit card.

--
*Ah, I see the f**k-up fairy has visited us again

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn
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