A bathroom light problem
 

A friend has a new flat. The bathroom light is reachable by anyone
standing in the bath, and the bath has a combi-boiler-fed shower over
it, so there'll be soon be lots of water and steam in the vicinity.
(Before that, there was a weaker elctric shower in the same place.)

As soon as I saw it I said I thought the bathroom light was a problem,
being a 'trendy' cluster of 3 spotlights, maybe ok in a bedroom but not
there. I've not checked yet, but I'm near certain that it's a 240V
fitting, not a low voltage one, mainly because I've not seen any
transformer anywhere.

The light is in Zone 1, possibly borderline Zone 2, but I guess not.
When I looked at bathroom lights in B&Q, even those marked as suitable
for Zone 1 said on their instructions (buried inside the box, of course
- good thing I opened it for a read) that the circuit should have a RCD
fitted as well. The house does have circuit breakers rather than
old-fashioned fusewire fuses, but I'm not sure if the breakers are
modern enough for a RCD-type to replace the current lighting circuit
breaker.

I'm sure that's what's required in the long term, but I'm wondering if
there are any short-term alternatives. I presume that even an enclosed
Zone 1 type light would be better than what's installed now? I also
wondered if one of the bulkhead-type outside lights would be a safer
alternative?

I also wonder if anyone makes a standalone RCD that could be sited
outside the bathroom (eg high up on the hall wall?) and have the
existing bathroom light circuit routed through it - ie could I take
cable out of the current bathroom ceiling pull-switch and through the
wall to a RCD then back in to the existing light circuit (or something)?

No-one wants to have to dig the existing ceiling apart looking for the
cables in it at this stage, as I suspect would be necessary if we
wanted either to replace the existing lighting circuit just in that
room, or indeed if we needed to completely disconnect that room's
lighting circuit and run a new one.

--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

So whats your problem with the lights in the bathroom?

In article ,
says...
So whats your problem with the lights in the bathroom?




I reckon that you must be the latest incarnation of Dimm?

--
Regards,

Will.

Will wrote:
In article ,
says...
So whats your problem with the lights in the bathroom?




I reckon that you must be the latest incarnation of Dimm?

Why I wanna know whats the problem where the lights are sited and whats
wrong with having LV lights in a bathroom?

They must be alright as they are, otherwise the landlord/previous occupier
would of said something.

In article , ben
wrote:

They must be alright as they are, otherwise the landlord/previous occupier
would of said something.
^^^^
ITYM "would have" ?


--
AJL

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 00:28:47 +0100, Jeremy C B Nicoll
wrote:



I also wonder if anyone makes a standalone RCD that could be sited
outside the bathroom (eg high up on the hall wall?) and have the
existing bathroom light circuit routed through it - ie could I take
cable out of the current bathroom ceiling pull-switch and through the
wall to a RCD then back in to the existing light circuit (or something)?


This is a way of adding an RCD
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Wiring_Accessories_Menu_Index/RCD_Protected_Range/RCD_Protected_Range_2/index.html

Something about zones here
http://www.diydata.com/electrics/bathroom_electrics/bathroom_electrics.htm

You could use an external bulkhead with an ipx4, certainly cheap but
looks a bit odd and would need an RCD if in zone 1. I know I've seen
shower lights that were'nt downlighters but mostly they are
downlighters, that is the wiring is all sealed in the ceiling void out
of the bathroom. They look quite good, are cheap and easy to fit in
your case, but you'd be going from 3 lights to 1.

Would it be possible to move the lights to zone 3? I suppose it
depends on which way the joists are going.

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 00:01:45 GMT, "ben" wrote:

Will wrote:
In article ,
says...
So whats your problem with the lights in the bathroom?




I reckon that you must be the latest incarnation of Dimm?

Why I wanna know whats the problem where the lights are sited and whats
wrong with having LV lights in a bathroom?

They must be alright as they are, otherwise the landlord/previous occupier
would of said something.

OP said he doesn't think they ARE LV.
Stuart




--

Shift THELEVER to reply.

Stuart wrote:
On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 00:01:45 GMT, "ben" wrote:

Will wrote:
In article ,
says...
So whats your problem with the lights in the bathroom?




I reckon that you must be the latest incarnation of Dimm?

Why I wanna know whats the problem where the lights are sited and
whats wrong with having LV lights in a bathroom?

They must be alright as they are, otherwise the landlord/previous
occupier would of said something.

OP said he doesn't think they ARE LV.
Stuart

My LV's can be reached if I stood up in the bath, there's no getting away
with it as the ceiling is low.
Me thinks he's making a lot of work for his friend.

In article , ben
writes
Stuart wrote:
On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 00:01:45 GMT, "ben" wrote:

Will wrote:
In article ,
says...
So whats your problem with the lights in the bathroom?




I reckon that you must be the latest incarnation of Dimm?

Why I wanna know whats the problem where the lights are sited and
whats wrong with having LV lights in a bathroom?

They must be alright as they are, otherwise the landlord/previous
occupier would of said something.

OP said he doesn't think they ARE LV.
Stuart

My LV's can be reached if I stood up in the bath, there's no getting away
with it as the ceiling is low.
Me thinks he's making a lot of work for his friend.

Pay attention at the back, they are talking about MAINS lights not LV.

Even if it is mains I am not sure it is something to worry about, unless
people make a habit of swinging on the light fitting to get out of the
bath.
--
Tim Mitchell

Tim Mitchell wrote:
In article , ben
writes
Stuart wrote:
On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 00:01:45 GMT, "ben" wrote:

Will wrote:
In article ,
says...
So whats your problem with the lights in the bathroom?




I reckon that you must be the latest incarnation of Dimm?

Why I wanna know whats the problem where the lights are sited and
whats wrong with having LV lights in a bathroom?

They must be alright as they are, otherwise the landlord/previous
occupier would of said something.

OP said he doesn't think they ARE LV.
Stuart

My LV's can be reached if I stood up in the bath, there's no getting
away with it as the ceiling is low.
Me thinks he's making a lot of work for his friend.

Pay attention at the back, they are talking about MAINS lights not LV.

Even if it is mains I am not sure it is something to worry about,
unless people make a habit of swinging on the light fitting to get
out of the bath.

Pay attention at the front, He hasn't said its 240V and if your putting
that type of lighting in a bathroom LV is the choice. :-P

In article , ben
writes
Tim Mitchell wrote:
In article , ben
writes
Stuart wrote:
OP said he doesn't think they ARE LV.
Stuart

My LV's can be reached if I stood up in the bath, there's no getting
away with it as the ceiling is low.
Me thinks he's making a lot of work for his friend.

Pay attention at the back, they are talking about MAINS lights not LV.

Even if it is mains I am not sure it is something to worry about,
unless people make a habit of swinging on the light fitting to get
out of the bath.

Pay attention at the front, He hasn't said its 240V and if your putting
that type of lighting in a bathroom LV is the choice. :-P

Definitely LV is best, but in his first post he said
"but I'm near certain that it's a 240V fitting, not a low voltage one,
mainly because I've not seen any transformer anywhere."
--
Tim Mitchell

Tim Mitchell wrote:
In article , ben
writes
Tim Mitchell wrote:
In article , ben
writes
Stuart wrote:
OP said he doesn't think they ARE LV.
Stuart

My LV's can be reached if I stood up in the bath, there's no
getting away with it as the ceiling is low.
Me thinks he's making a lot of work for his friend.

Pay attention at the back, they are talking about MAINS lights not
LV.

Even if it is mains I am not sure it is something to worry about,
unless people make a habit of swinging on the light fitting to get
out of the bath.

Pay attention at the front, He hasn't said its 240V and if your
putting that type of lighting in a bathroom LV is the choice. :-P

Definitely LV is best, but in his first post he said
"but I'm near certain that it's a 240V fitting, not a low voltage one,
mainly because I've not seen any transformer anywhere."

Yeah! but I've known people to stick the transformer in the ceiling near to
one of the lights, daft buggers. :-)

In article ,
ben wrote:

Why I wanna know whats the problem where the lights are sited

It is touchable by anyone standing in the bath having a shower.

and whats wrong with having LV lights in a bathroom?

nothing, but I don't think the present lights are LV. Putting LV ones
in is a long-term solution as far as I'm concerned because - I assume -
we'd need to tear the ceiling down to get at the present main wires
buried in it, to remove them. The switch for this light is also at
ceiling height so I wouldn't guarantee that the whole supply might not
be high up. That is, there's no certainty that I could find the
light's supply under the floor and terminate it.

They must be alright as they are, otherwise the landlord/previous
occupier would of said something.

Rubbish. Previous occupier clearly did things without thought of
safety issues - probably wasn't even aware that there are safety issues.

--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

In article ,
Tim Mitchell wrote:

Even if it is mains I am not sure it is something to worry about,
unless people make a habit of swinging on the light fitting to get
out of the bath.

Someone not thinking could reach out and touch the light, and I suppose
might do if they thought they were about to slip.

--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

In article ,
ben wrote:

Pay attention at the front, He hasn't said its 240V

No, that's right, I merely said I thought it was.

and if your putting that type of lighting in a bathroom LV is the
choice. :-P

I'm not trying to decide what the best kind of new light in a brand new
redecorated bathroom would be, so eg not considering downlighters in a
ceiling suspended under the present one - that'd be easy. I'm trying
to find out how to make the present situation safer. The new owner of
the flat will doubtless consider redoing the whole bathroom at some
later date when funds permit but it's not going to happen soon.

--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

In article ,
ben wrote:

Yeah! but I've known people to stick the transformer in the ceiling
near to one of the lights, daft buggers. :-)

This is an old flat, with an artexed (I think) ceiling. There's
nowhere to put a transformer, short of visiting the upstairs neighbours
and taking up their floor.

--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

Jeremy C B Nicoll wrote:

in is a long-term solution as far as I'm concerned because - I assume -
we'd need to tear the ceiling down to get at the present main wires
buried in it, to remove them. The switch for this light is also at
ceiling height so I wouldn't guarantee that the whole supply might not
be high up. That is, there's no certainty that I could find the
light's supply under the floor and terminate it.

You can get 12V transformers that are small enough to go through the
mounting hole for the lights themselves. So if you already have switched
mains routed to several luminairs, then it would be simplest to go for
one transformer per light.


--
Cheers,

John.

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In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
Jeremy C B Nicoll wrote:

in is a long-term solution as far as I'm concerned because - I
assume - we'd need to tear the ceiling down to get at the present
main wires buried in it, to remove them. The switch for this light
is also at ceiling height so I wouldn't guarantee that the whole
supply might not be high up. That is, there's no certainty that I
could find the light's supply under the floor and terminate it.

You can get 12V transformers that are small enough to go through the
mounting hole for the lights themselves. So if you already have
switched mains routed to several luminairs, then it would be
simplest to go for one transformer per light.

Unfortunately we don't have luminaires mounted in holes at all. We
have a surface mounted triple spotlight.

--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

Jeremy C B Nicoll wrote:

Unfortunately we don't have luminaires mounted in holes at all. We
have a surface mounted triple spotlight.

If you want to change the fitting however there is nothing stopping you
going for a through hole mounting, or for that matter a surface mounting
one that covers the small hole required to hide the transformer ;-)

--
Cheers,

John.

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