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AlexW
 
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Default Breaking Concrete - What Depth for Services?

I am breaking up the 4" patio in front of our house this week.

Gas and Water come in under the gateway the and into the house at the
front and side of a lean to under the slab.

The Gas was put in after the main slab and been made good with a patch
concrete. This was probably over 20years ago by the looks of things
(pos. when external gas box was added to the house - way before our time).

Thus I would imagine would put the gas pipe at a depth which won't be
affected by the breaking activity?

The mains water stop in the road is relatively modern as it was replaced
a 3 years back when we bought. IIRC the depth was at least a foot
(probably more like 18").

So I guess that end is OK too?

The water comes into the side of the lean to, its a copper feed up
through the floor and the lean to is over well 100years old, although
the pipework looks newer.

The other end of the water feed comes in next to a recessed gully at the
the bottom of the slab, I can see that the slab at that point is 4"
thick, so it looks like the slab may have been put in after the fact
(the gully being closer to the level of whatever was there before).

My concern here is that the water feed in to the house is close to the
slab and vulnerable to breaking damage or worse still embedded in the
slab (unlikely I guess)?

Has anyone got a view as to whether I am just being paranoid about this
or advice as to approach the breaking carefully to avoid disaster?

Once again, TIA,

Alex.
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Owain
 
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AlexW wrote:
Thus I would imagine would put the gas pipe at a depth which won't be
affected by the breaking activity?


I wouldn't take that for granted.

The mains water stop in the road is relatively modern as it was replaced
a 3 years back when we bought. IIRC the depth was at least a foot
(probably more like 18").
So I guess that end is OK too?


Water is probably the deepest, to prevent freezing. Electricity is often
very shallow.

Has anyone got a view as to whether I am just being paranoid about this
or advice as to approach the breaking carefully to avoid disaster?


You are not being paranoid. Chopping the gas pipe could mean the whole
street gets evacuated (and I don't know how much Transco would charge
you for repairing it); people have been killed or seriously injured
chopping into electricity mains, and chopping the water main could make
a very big mess.

You can probably turn the water off at the pavement stopcock. You may
need a thingee to turn the stopcock off with though.

All the utilities have specialised departments for underground plant and
(should) have detailed plans showing the exact(ish) location of
services. Hopefully that extends to private land. They may come out and
mark the location for free.

For Scotland,

Transco (Plant Location)
95 Kilburnie Street
Tradeston
Glasgow G5 8JD
Tel 0141 418 4093 office hours.

Moleseye (Scotland) Ltd
0800 800 333

Moleseye will notify all utilities, pipeline operators and the relevant
local authority of your proposed works. Given sufficient notice then can
supply you with drawings and enable you to comply with the New Roads And
Street Woks Act 1991 (HAUC Code of Practice for the co-ordination of
streetworks and works for road purposes and related matters) and the Health
and Safety Executive document HS(G)47 Avoiding Danger From Underground
Services.

You can also hire a CAT (cable avoidance tool) although whether it will
work through (possibly reinforced) concrete I don't know.

Owain


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AlexW
 
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Owain wrote:
AlexW wrote:

Thus I would imagine would put the gas pipe at a depth which won't be
affected by the breaking activity?



I wouldn't take that for granted.

The mains water stop in the road is relatively modern as it was
replaced a 3 years back when we bought. IIRC the depth was at least a
foot (probably more like 18").
So I guess that end is OK too?



Water is probably the deepest, to prevent freezing. Electricity is often
very shallow.

Has anyone got a view as to whether I am just being paranoid about
this or advice as to approach the breaking carefully to avoid disaster?



You are not being paranoid. Chopping the gas pipe could mean the whole
street gets evacuated (and I don't know how much Transco would charge
you for repairing it); people have been killed or seriously injured
chopping into electricity mains, and chopping the water main could make
a very big mess.

You can probably turn the water off at the pavement stopcock. You may
need a thingee to turn the stopcock off with though.

All the utilities have specialised departments for underground plant and
(should) have detailed plans showing the exact(ish) location of
services. Hopefully that extends to private land. They may come out and
mark the location for free.

For Scotland,

Transco (Plant Location)
95 Kilburnie Street
Tradeston
Glasgow G5 8JD
Tel 0141 418 4093 office hours.

Moleseye (Scotland) Ltd
0800 800 333

Moleseye will notify all utilities, pipeline operators and the relevant
local authority of your proposed works. Given sufficient notice then can
supply you with drawings and enable you to comply with the New Roads And
Street Woks Act 1991 (HAUC Code of Practice for the co-ordination of
streetworks and works for road purposes and related matters) and the Health
and Safety Executive document HS(G)47 Avoiding Danger From Underground
Services.

You can also hire a CAT (cable avoidance tool) although whether it will
work through (possibly reinforced) concrete I don't know.

Owain


Owain, thanks for the info.

I know within about a foot or so where all the services are in the area,
I can even dig down under the flower bed to establish the depth of the
gas pipe. Electricity is overhead. Water can be turned off.

I doubt the utility co info is going to be more accurate. Especially
that the data will probably been captured (possibly correct?) many years
ago and digitised since.

New Road And Street Woks Act 1991


Is this /really/ applicable and necessary for removing 4 inches of
concrete from my own front garden?

Is there a better way to lift the concrete than breaking?

How deep is safe for a light duty breaker on the Gas front? I am not
planning to dig anything deeper than 4" (perhaps other than an
exploratory hole for Gas).

Alex.





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Owain
 
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AlexW wrote:
New Road And Street Woks Act 1991

Is this /really/ applicable and necessary for removing 4 inches of
concrete from my own front garden?


No, but it is necessary if you want to sell Chinese food door-to-door on
recently-completed housing schemes :-) The text was copied-and-pasted
from a previous on this subject.

Is there a better way to lift the concrete than breaking?


Lift one corner and hit it (with a jack?)? It will snap?

How deep is safe for a light duty breaker on the Gas front? I am not
planning to dig anything deeper than 4" (perhaps other than an
exploratory hole for Gas).


If you're sure the concrete is 4" then you are *probably* safe breaking
to 4" but I'm not going to guarantee it :-)

Owain

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AlexW
 
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Owain wrote:
AlexW wrote:

New Road And Street Woks Act 1991

Is this /really/ applicable and necessary for removing 4 inches of
concrete from my own front garden?



No, but it is necessary if you want to sell Chinese food door-to-door on
recently-completed housing schemes :-) The text was copied-and-pasted
from a previous on this subject.


What happened to the r ;-) I wonder?


Is there a better way to lift the concrete than breaking?



Lift one corner and hit it (with a jack?)? It will snap?

How deep is safe for a light duty breaker on the Gas front? I am not
planning to dig anything deeper than 4" (perhaps other than an
exploratory hole for Gas).



If you're sure the concrete is 4" then you are *probably* safe breaking
to 4" but I'm not going to guarantee it :-)

Owain


Cheers for the advice, i doubt it will snap easily, its uniformly 4" (I
have samples from elswhere) and quite "good", builders doing the
conservatory had a mare with a getting out another peice of the same
slab (so they said) ... this was away from the services though.

Luckily on one end (gas meter) the peice of infill mentioned gives away
the location and direction on the gas pipe within a foot or so. The
infilled bit will probably lift out with a bit of perssuasion.

On the other end, I may be able to score the crete to say 1" and then
use the breaker to break out sections from the edge around the which is
not obviously infilled (although i might give that a scrub down to see
if thats infilled too).

I'll check the depth of the gas before breaking commences. I suppose if
too close to the crete then I'll have to dice the crete with a stihl saw
or something less disturbing, although I am not looking forward to that....

Cheers,

Alex.



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Autolycus
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"AlexW" wrote in message
...
I am breaking up the 4" patio in front of our house this week.

Gas and Water come in under the gateway the and into the house at the
front and side of a lean to under the slab.

The Gas was put in after the main slab and been made good with a patch
concrete. This was probably over 20years ago by the looks of things
(pos. when external gas box was added to the house - way before our
time).

Thus I would imagine would put the gas pipe at a depth which won't be
affected by the breaking activity?

snip

If the gas pipe was installed with a "mole", its depth could be all over
the place, particularly if the ground had previously been made up with
rough hardcore. The first place my hired JCB hit the pipe it was less
than 200mm below the surface, but in other places it was well over 600mm
deep. If the gas pipe is yellow plastic, it will be surprisingly tough,
but a JCB bucket is tougher. Personally, I wouldn't worry about
breaking out 100mm, but you could always have a roll of duct tape handy
for while you're waiting for Transco.


--
Kevin Poole
**Use current month and year to reply (e.g. )***
Car Transport by Tiltbed Trailer - based near Derby



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AlexW
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Autolycus wrote:

"AlexW" wrote in message
...

I am breaking up the 4" patio in front of our house this week.

Gas and Water come in under the gateway the and into the house at the
front and side of a lean to under the slab.

The Gas was put in after the main slab and been made good with a patch
concrete. This was probably over 20years ago by the looks of things
(pos. when external gas box was added to the house - way before our
time).

Thus I would imagine would put the gas pipe at a depth which won't be
affected by the breaking activity?

snip

If the gas pipe was installed with a "mole", its depth could be all over
the place, particularly if the ground had previously been made up with
rough hardcore. The first place my hired JCB hit the pipe it was less
than 200mm below the surface, but in other places it was well over 600mm
deep. If the gas pipe is yellow plastic, it will be surprisingly tough,
but a JCB bucket is tougher. Personally, I wouldn't worry about
breaking out 100mm, but you could always have a roll of duct tape handy
for while you're waiting for Transco.



Thanks for the info.

Taking another look tonight I think I can make out the line where the
pipe goes under the 100yr old dry stone wall, at the edge of my
property, this looks like it may have been "moled" or similar. Neigbhor
reckons my house (end of semi-rural/rural road) only got gas less than
20 years ago.

Regards,

Alex.
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bof
 
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Default

In message , Owain
writes
AlexW wrote:
New Road And Street Woks Act 1991

Is this /really/ applicable and necessary for removing 4 inches of
concrete from my own front garden?


No, but it is necessary if you want to sell Chinese food door-to-door
on recently-completed housing schemes :-) The text was
copied-and-pasted from a previous on this subject.

Is there a better way to lift the concrete than breaking?


Lift one corner and hit it (with a jack?)? It will snap?


I've had to remove a lot of 4 - 6" thick concrete over the years, and
lift and crack works really well so long as there's no reinforcing rods.
I use a 3 - 4' long steel spike as a lever on a fulcrum of fence post or
similar, stand on the steel spike to lift the concrete which only needs
to rise 5 - 10mm or so, then hit the concrete with a sledge hammer to
get liftable size pieces.

--
bof at bof dot me dot uk
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