Earthing exterior lights
 

Hi,

I replaced some external lights yesterday, the usual black lantern type.
Anyway, when I was trying to fit one, the corroded earth wire coming from
the wall snapped off completely. The instructions for the lights say they
must be earthed, is this definitely the case? There's no way I can be
chuffed running a new wire. What's the worst that can happen? If I touch the
lamp when live will it try to earth through me?

Forgive me if I'm being stupid, but I'm not the best of DIY'ers...

TIA

Dan

--
People call me old-fashioned. What a load of old poppycock!

-=D@n=- wrote:

I replaced some external lights yesterday, the usual black lantern type.
Anyway, when I was trying to fit one, the corroded earth wire coming from
the wall snapped off completely. The instructions for the lights say they
must be earthed, is this definitely the case?

Yes.


There's no way I can be chuffed running a new wire.

Then should you really be messing with electrics?


What's the worst that can happen?

You could die.

Worse still, someone other than you could die.



--
Grunff

Grunff wrote:
-=D@n=- wrote:

I replaced some external lights yesterday, the usual black lantern
type. Anyway, when I was trying to fit one, the corroded earth wire
coming from the wall snapped off completely. The instructions for
the lights say they must be earthed, is this definitely the case?

Yes.

Ok, thanks.



There's no way I can be chuffed running a new wire.

Then should you really be messing with electrics?

I'm not 'messing with electrics', I was replacing exterior lights. Pretty
much like-for-like. The problem is, I think the wire goes from outside into
the wall, and somehow into the void between the ceiling of a downstairs
bathroom and under the floor of an upstairs room. It will be a pain to
replace the wire.



What's the worst that can happen?

You could die.

Worse still, someone other than you could die.

Ok. The light is on the same 'ring' as another light I think (when I switch
one ring off on the consumer unit, both wires are dead. If I just tape up
the wire and stuff it into the hole in the wall, am I looking for trouble?

Thanks

Dan



--
People call me old-fashioned. What a load of old poppycock!

Grunff wrote:
-=D@n=- wrote:

I replaced some external lights yesterday, the usual black lantern
type. Anyway, when I was trying to fit one, the corroded earth wire
coming from the wall snapped off completely. The instructions for
the lights say they must be earthed, is this definitely the case?

Yes.


There's no way I can be chuffed running a new wire.

Then should you really be messing with electrics?


What's the worst that can happen?

You could die.

Worse still, someone other than you could die.

I agree with all that... *but*...

Your other option is to find a plastic framed double insulated light - that
wouldn't need an earth.

Remember too that the earth doesn't have to be in the same bit of T+E as the
supply. You can run a single earth from the nearest point you can get at. As
long as the light chassis is earthed it won't care where it comes from.

PC Paul wrote:
Grunff wrote:
-=D@n=- wrote:

I replaced some external lights yesterday, the usual black lantern
type. Anyway, when I was trying to fit one, the corroded earth wire
coming from the wall snapped off completely. The instructions for
the lights say they must be earthed, is this definitely the case?

Yes.


There's no way I can be chuffed running a new wire.

Then should you really be messing with electrics?


What's the worst that can happen?

You could die.

Worse still, someone other than you could die.

I agree with all that... *but*...

Your other option is to find a plastic framed double insulated light
- that wouldn't need an earth.

Hmm ok, that's a thought.


Remember too that the earth doesn't have to be in the same bit of T+E
as the supply. You can run a single earth from the nearest point you
can get at. As long as the light chassis is earthed it won't care
where it comes from.

Right ok, I never thought of that. So, if I can find some other earth nearby
I can just attach to that. Of course I can.

Thanks Paul



--
People call me old-fashioned. What a load of old poppycock!

Grunff wrote:
-=D@n=- wrote:

Ok. The light is on the same 'ring' as another light I think (when I
switch one ring off on the consumer unit, both wires are dead. If I
just tape up the wire and stuff it into the hole in the wall, am I
looking for trouble?

Yes, really not a good idea.

You have 2 options:

1. Run a new earth.

2. Replace the light with a double insulated plastic one that does not
require earthing.

Ok Grunff, thanks for your replies. I think I'm going to try and find
another earth nearby.

Dan

--
People call me old-fashioned. What a load of old poppycock!

-=D@n=- wrote:

Ok. The light is on the same 'ring' as another light I think (when I switch
one ring off on the consumer unit, both wires are dead. If I just tape up
the wire and stuff it into the hole in the wall, am I looking for trouble?

Yes, really not a good idea.

You have 2 options:

1. Run a new earth.

2. Replace the light with a double insulated plastic one that does not
require earthing.



--
Grunff

Grunff wrote:
-=D@n=- wrote:

Ok. The light is on the same 'ring' as another light I think (when I switch
one ring off on the consumer unit, both wires are dead. If I just tape up
the wire and stuff it into the hole in the wall, am I looking for trouble?

Yes, really not a good idea.

You have 2 options:

1. Run a new earth.

2. Replace the light with a double insulated plastic one that does not
require earthing.

3. Insert a RCD into the circuit before the light?

-=D@n=- wrote:
Grunff wrote:
-=D@n=- wrote:

Ok. The light is on the same 'ring' as another light I think (when I
switch one ring off on the consumer unit, both wires are dead. If I
just tape up the wire and stuff it into the hole in the wall, am I
looking for trouble?

Yes, really not a good idea.

You have 2 options:

1. Run a new earth.

2. Replace the light with a double insulated plastic one that does
not require earthing.

Ok Grunff, thanks for your replies. I think I'm going to try and find
another earth nearby.



Hmm as a basically competent but not up to date leccy, is it allowed and/or
safe to get the earth for this from a nearby water pipe (after checking
continuity of course)?

Gut feeling says it would work as an earth but be against all the regs.

In article ,
Ian Stirling writes:

3. Insert a RCD into the circuit before the light?

Not an acceptable alternative.

--
Andrew Gabriel

PC Paul wrote:
-=D@n=- wrote:
Grunff wrote:
-=D@n=- wrote:

Ok. The light is on the same 'ring' as another light I think (when
I switch one ring off on the consumer unit, both wires are dead.
If I just tape up the wire and stuff it into the hole in the wall,
am I looking for trouble?

Yes, really not a good idea.

You have 2 options:

1. Run a new earth.

2. Replace the light with a double insulated plastic one that does
not require earthing.

Ok Grunff, thanks for your replies. I think I'm going to try and find
another earth nearby.



Hmm as a basically competent but not up to date leccy, is it allowed
and/or safe to get the earth for this from a nearby water pipe (after
checking continuity of course)?

Hmm, sounds a bit dodgy (but what do I know).


Gut feeling says it would work as an earth but be against all the
regs.

Gut(ter) feeling? :)



--
People call me old-fashioned. What a load of old poppycock!

On Mon, 8 Aug 2005 11:21:17 +0100, "-=D@n=-" wrote:

Grunff wrote:
-=D@n=- wrote:

Ok. The light is on the same 'ring' as another light I think (when I
switch one ring off on the consumer unit, both wires are dead. If I
just tape up the wire and stuff it into the hole in the wall, am I
looking for trouble?

Yes, really not a good idea.

You have 2 options:

1. Run a new earth.

2. Replace the light with a double insulated plastic one that does not
require earthing.

Ok Grunff, thanks for your replies. I think I'm going to try and find
another earth nearby.

Don't forget that you'll have to inform the building control officer
with a view to inspection....

:-(

--
Frank Erskine

Frank Erskine wrote:
On Mon, 8 Aug 2005 11:21:17 +0100, "-=D@n=-" wrote:

Grunff wrote:
-=D@n=- wrote:

Ok. The light is on the same 'ring' as another light I think (when
I switch one ring off on the consumer unit, both wires are dead.
If I just tape up the wire and stuff it into the hole in the wall,
am I looking for trouble?

Yes, really not a good idea.

You have 2 options:

1. Run a new earth.

2. Replace the light with a double insulated plastic one that does
not require earthing.

Ok Grunff, thanks for your replies. I think I'm going to try and find
another earth nearby.

Don't forget that you'll have to inform the building control officer
with a view to inspection....

:-(

AKA, the missus? ;)

--
People call me old-fashioned. What a load of old poppycock!

-=D@n=- wrote:
Frank Erskine wrote:
On Mon, 8 Aug 2005 11:21:17 +0100, "-=D@n=-"
Don't forget that you'll have to inform the building control officer
with a view to inspection....

:-(

AKA, the missus? ;)

No, the less scary one at the council ;-)

PC Paul wrote:
-=D@n=- wrote:
Frank Erskine wrote:
On Mon, 8 Aug 2005 11:21:17 +0100, "-=D@n=-"
Don't forget that you'll have to inform the building control officer
with a view to inspection....

:-(

AKA, the missus? ;)

No, the less scary one at the council ;-)

*shudder*

--
People call me old-fashioned. What a load of old poppycock!

-=D@n=- wrote:

much like-for-like. The problem is, I think the wire goes from outside into
the wall, and somehow into the void between the ceiling of a downstairs
bathroom and under the floor of an upstairs room. It will be a pain to
replace the wire.

Remember that if you do decide to replace the wire, then there is no
requirement that the new wire follows the same route as the old one. If
there is a much simpler routing for it then you are free to use it. In
this case you ought to find where the feed to the other wire is and
disconnect it (you can leave the now disconnected wire itself in place
if you want). The feed will typically be at the CU itself, or more
likely at the nearest accessible light fitting on the same circuit.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John said:

Remember that if you do decide to replace the wire, then there is no
requirement that the new wire follows the same route as the old one.

Whoa! Doesn't a re-route invoke Part Pee?

Phil

-=D@n=- wrote:


Right ok, I never thought of that. So, if I can find some other earth nearby
I can just attach to that. Of course I can.

Thanks Paul





It has to be another electical earth though really... Not a copper pipe
or some bonded metal work. Another thought is that if you really want to
run an earth why don't you just run another piece of T+E (use the old
cable to pull it through)? I only ask because if the earth wire was in
bad condition then the live and neutral could be in similar conditions
(I guess they could have been exposed to outside moisture) and in that
case you would really need a good earth if not to reduce the risk of you
burning your house down.

On Mon, 8 Aug 2005 17:09:30 +0100, "TheScullster"
wrote:

John said:

Remember that if you do decide to replace the wire, then there is no
requirement that the new wire follows the same route as the old one.

Whoa! Doesn't a re-route invoke Part Pee?

A simple replacement involves Part P, since it's an exterior light.

--
Frank Erskine

-=D@n=- wrote:

Right ok, I never thought of that. So, if I can find some other earth nearby
I can just attach to that. Of course I can.

What do you mean, "some other earth" - from what you've said earlier I
have visions of this installation becoming much less safe rather than
more so.

Do yourself a favour and buy a double-insulated, non-earthed light
fitting as others have recommended - there are loads of them around.

David

Aaron wrote:
-=D@n=- wrote:


Right ok, I never thought of that. So, if I can find some other
earth nearby I can just attach to that. Of course I can.

Thanks Paul





It has to be another electical earth though really... Not a copper
pipe or some bonded metal work. Another thought is that if you really
want to run an earth why don't you just run another piece of T+E (use
the old cable to pull it through)? I only ask because if the earth
wire was in bad condition then the live and neutral could be in
similar conditions (I guess they could have been exposed to outside
moisture) and in that case you would really need a good earth if not
to reduce the risk of you burning your house down.

Yes, you're right. The live and neutral were not in great condition.
Probably, as you say, down to being exposed. I think I'm going to find an
area in the void where I can cut the existing wire, join a new piece on, use
the duff wire to feed the new wire through to the outside. Probably the best
thing I can do.

Thanks all for your help, invaluable.

Dan



--
People call me old-fashioned. What a load of old poppycock!