Tiling on wooden floors
 

Hi

As I posted a few weeks ago, I was about to embark on tiling a wooden
floor. I have tiled floors before but not on a wooden one.

The floor was a floating chipboard floor which I covered in 12mm marine
ply and screwed every 6" in every direction. I then painted with a coat of
PVA and water.

Over the weekend (it now being wednesday morning) I tiled about half the
floor (30 tiles) using Unibond ready mixed tile adhesive for wooden
floors.

I then stayed off the floor until this morngin but noticed that about 5 or
6 of the tiles still move up and down by a few mm's. I assumed that I
hadnt glued it properyl so I took one of the tiles up (which happened to
be at an edge). I found that the glue underneath hadnt really set
particularly hard - it was easy to scrape the glue off the floor with an
old chisel.

Im assuming that the glue sets when the moisture evaporates. If this is
correct, does hte fact that the ply is waterproof, thick and painted with
glue make this understandable ? or is something else wrong ?

If it makes any differenece, the tiles are big (45cmx45cm) so there are
less grouting gaps where the air can get in ? Im not sure about the logic
of this but anyway !

Thanks

Tim

Tim Smith wrote:

Over the weekend (it now being wednesday morning) I tiled about half the
floor (30 tiles) using Unibond ready mixed tile adhesive for wooden
floors.

I then stayed off the floor until this morngin but noticed that about 5 or
6 of the tiles still move up and down by a few mm's. I assumed that I
hadnt glued it properyl so I took one of the tiles up (which happened to
be at an edge). I found that the glue underneath hadnt really set
particularly hard - it was easy to scrape the glue off the floor with an
old chisel.

Im assuming that the glue sets when the moisture evaporates. If this is
correct, does hte fact that the ply is waterproof, thick and painted with
glue make this understandable ? or is something else wrong ?


I've used this adhesive for tiling part of a worktop. It takes a very,
very long time to set - much longer than it says on the pot. You need to
allow a week before you walk on them.

The large tiles will also slow things down. Don't worry, just wait.


--
Grunff

Grunff wrote:

Tim Smith wrote:

Over the weekend (it now being wednesday morning) I tiled about half the
floor (30 tiles) using Unibond ready mixed tile adhesive for wooden
floors.

I then stayed off the floor until this morngin but noticed that about 5 or
6 of the tiles still move up and down by a few mm's. I assumed that I
hadnt glued it properyl so I took one of the tiles up (which happened to
be at an edge). I found that the glue underneath hadnt really set
particularly hard - it was easy to scrape the glue off the floor with an
old chisel.

Im assuming that the glue sets when the moisture evaporates. If this is
correct, does hte fact that the ply is waterproof, thick and painted with
glue make this understandable ? or is something else wrong ?


I've used this adhesive for tiling part of a worktop. It takes a very,
very long time to set - much longer than it says on the pot. You need to
allow a week before you walk on them.

The large tiles will also slow things down. Don't worry, just wait.


--
Grunff

Thanks Grunff,

Now Ill have to replace the tile I took up ! I guess my wife will have to
wait before filling the kitchen cupboards again !

Tim

Timothy Smith wrote:

Grunff wrote:

Tim Smith wrote:

Over the weekend (it now being wednesday morning) I tiled about half the
floor (30 tiles) using Unibond ready mixed tile adhesive for wooden
floors.

I then stayed off the floor until this morngin but noticed that about 5
or
6 of the tiles still move up and down by a few mm's. I assumed that I
hadnt glued it properyl so I took one of the tiles up (which happened to
be at an edge). I found that the glue underneath hadnt really set
particularly hard - it was easy to scrape the glue off the floor with an
old chisel.

Im assuming that the glue sets when the moisture evaporates. If this is
correct, does hte fact that the ply is waterproof, thick and painted with
glue make this understandable ? or is something else wrong ?


I've used this adhesive for tiling part of a worktop. It takes a very,
very long time to set - much longer than it says on the pot. You need to
allow a week before you walk on them.

The large tiles will also slow things down. Don't worry, just wait.


--
Grunff

Thanks Grunff,

Now Ill have to replace the tile I took up ! I guess my wife will have to
wait before filling the kitchen cupboards again !

Tim

Just a thought,

since the tin said 48hrs and everyhting felt reasonably solid (after all
most of the tiles are) I walked on this last night and the worktop fitters
did for an hour or so yesterday.

Assuming that all the tiles are still level and havent sunk, there isnt
likely to be any other problems been caused by walking on it before it is
fully set are there ? I assume that its best to leave longer then before
putting general traffic but the odd footstep or so shouldnt cause any long
term problems.

Is this correct ?

Tim

Timothy Smith wrote:

Assuming that all the tiles are still level and havent sunk, there isnt
likely to be any other problems been caused by walking on it before it is
fully set are there ? I assume that its best to leave longer then before
putting general traffic but the odd footstep or so shouldnt cause any long
term problems.

Is this correct ?


I think it'll depend on how firm it had set :-)

There's no point worrying about it at this stage - you're either going
to have to redo it, or it'll be fine. You can choose to redo it now, or
to wait and see what it's like in a few days. I'd pick the latter.

--
Grunff

You can choose to redo it now, or to wait and see what it's
like in a few days. I'd pick the latter.

If you decide to do it again, try a different adhesive. I used Ardex Flex
7001 Timber System and it was excellent. It certainly didn't take 48 hours
to set. The tiles were 600x400mm slates. It's been down for over a year and
there hasn't been so much as a crack in the grout (Ardex Flex FL).

http://www.ardex.co.uk/ardexflex_7001.asp
http://www.ardex.co.uk/ardexflex_fl.asp

Christian.

Christian McArdle wrote:

You can choose to redo it now, or to wait and see what it's
like in a few days. I'd pick the latter.

If you decide to do it again, try a different adhesive. I used Ardex Flex
7001 Timber System and it was excellent. It certainly didn't take 48 hours
to set. The tiles were 600x400mm slates. It's been down for over a year and
there hasn't been so much as a crack in the grout (Ardex Flex FL).

http://www.ardex.co.uk/ardexflex_7001.asp
http://www.ardex.co.uk/ardexflex_fl.asp

Christian.

Would you recommend that it is better to take them up and start again ?

Obviously this would be better to do before the glue sets any harder and
can be taken off hte tiles.

Tim

Would you recommend that it is better to take them up and start again ?

That I couldn't be sure of. I have no experience of the Unibond product and
don't know if it will ultimately succeed, or if it has already failed.

Christian.

Christian McArdle wrote:
Would you recommend that it is better to take them up and start again ?


That I couldn't be sure of. I have no experience of the Unibond product and
don't know if it will ultimately succeed, or if it has already failed.

It's actually a pretty decent product. It has good adhesion, and remains
quite flexible when set. My only complaint was the setting time - it
really did seem to take forever. Because this was just a section of a
worktop, I didn't really mind. I'm not sure I'd use it on a floor that I
needed to walk on any time soon.


--
Grunff

My only complaint was the setting time - it really did seem
to take forever.

Yes, that's one of the advantages of Ardex Flex 7001TS. It claims it can be
trafficked and grouted after 2 hours.

Christian.

Christian McArdle wrote:

You can choose to redo it now, or to wait and see what it's
like in a few days. I'd pick the latter.

If you decide to do it again, try a different adhesive. I used Ardex Flex
7001 Timber System and it was excellent. It certainly didn't take 48 hours
to set. The tiles were 600x400mm slates. It's been down for over a year and
there hasn't been so much as a crack in the grout (Ardex Flex FL).

http://www.ardex.co.uk/ardexflex_7001.asp
http://www.ardex.co.uk/ardexflex_fl.asp

Christian.


Just spoke to Unibond who claim that the problem is that I let the
PVA/water mix dry. The say that their instructions specify tiling the
floor whilst it is damp. Ill have to check at home.

He also says that the fact that they have been walked on may well mean
that the adhesion between the tile and the glue is now broken.

Im tempted to take the tiles up whilst the glue is still damp and try to
clean them off and get it done properly.

Christian - would the Ardex glue have problems with me having let the PVA
dry do you know ?

Tim

Christian McArdle wrote:

My only complaint was the setting time - it really did seem
to take forever.

Yes, that's one of the advantages of Ardex Flex 7001TS. It claims it can be
trafficked and grouted after 2 hours.

Christian.

OK - I think it is going to come up and start again. Hopefully I will be
able to scrape the existing glue off the floor and the pressure hose it
off the back of the tiles. Unless anyone can suggest another wya ?

Tim

Timothy Smith wrote:

OK - I think it is going to come up and start again. Hopefully I will be
able to scrape the existing glue off the floor and the pressure hose it
off the back of the tiles. Unless anyone can suggest another wya ?


I think that's too hasty. Cleaning semi-dried adhesive is not going to
be easy, and will take a very long time. This will be especially true if
it has dried sufficiently to be walked on without noticeable movement.

You may not be able to get many of the tiles up without breaking them -
they are big tiles.

If you're really worried, how about trying to lift say 3 sample tiles at
3 locations. Examine the adhesive. Has it set? Were the tiles easy to
take up?


--
Grunff

Christian - would the Ardex glue have problems with me having let the PVA
dry do you know ?

I did mine with it dry. I also used standard diluted PVA, rather than their
specified Ardion 51 primer. Indeed, if you read the Ardex instructions, they
specify that the primer should be allowed to dry for at least an hour, not
specifying a maximum.

Christian.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...

If you decide to do it again, try a different adhesive. I used Ardex Flex
7001 Timber System and it was excellent. It certainly didn't take 48 hours
to set. The tiles were 600x400mm slates. It's been down for over a year
and
there hasn't been so much as a crack in the grout (Ardex Flex FL).

http://www.ardex.co.uk/ardexflex_7001.asp
http://www.ardex.co.uk/ardexflex_fl.asp

Christian.

Same stuff, same application, same results, 2 yrs down the line - very very
happy - not cheap but then again I was putting down slates which weren't
cheap either

Jon

Jonathan Pearson wrote:


"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...

If you decide to do it again, try a different adhesive. I used Ardex Flex
7001 Timber System and it was excellent. It certainly didn't take 48 hours
to set. The tiles were 600x400mm slates. It's been down for over a year
and
there hasn't been so much as a crack in the grout (Ardex Flex FL).

http://www.ardex.co.uk/ardexflex_7001.asp
http://www.ardex.co.uk/ardexflex_fl.asp

Christian.

Same stuff, same application, same results, 2 yrs down the line - very very
happy - not cheap but then again I was putting down slates which weren't
cheap either

Jon

Just spoke to Ardex. They recommended a light sanding to remove the PVA
from the floor and then using their primer ?

Did you use their primer ?

Tim

Just spoke to Ardex. They recommended a light sanding to remove the PVA
from the floor and then using their primer ?

Did you use their primer ?

Personally, I used PVA. I couldn't get hold of the correct primer in time
and only had a 2 day window to lay the floor.

Christian.

Christian McArdle wrote:

Just spoke to Ardex. They recommended a light sanding to remove the PVA
from the floor and then using their primer ?

Did you use their primer ?

Personally, I used PVA. I couldn't get hold of the correct primer in time
and only had a 2 day window to lay the floor.

Christian.

That makes me feel better then. I used a PVA/water mix (half bucket of
water and a few big dollops of PVA). I didnt fancy sanding the whole floor
....

Tim

Timothy Smith wrote:
Jonathan Pearson wrote:

Just spoke to Ardex. They recommended a light sanding to remove the
PVA from the floor and then using their primer ?

Did you use their primer ?

Tim

Yes I did, it was PVA like (from recollection), I used their stuff on the
assumption that if it went wrong they couldn't blame anyone else - the
primer was very cheap, at around £10 for 5 litres (I did 20sqm, and only
used 1/2) - the 7001 system was the expensive bit around £25/bag, and the
admix stuff was around £10-15 (maybe more) - I used quite a lot as of
adhesive (more than they said I would) ~ 10-12bags , as I had 'uneven'
slates to level out - the mixture is grey, which was fine for me and I used
their grey flexible grout - not sure what other colours they had - as this
is a 'professional' product you wont find it in B&Q / Wickes etc you need to
got to a specialist flooring supplier, so as always go in in old scruffy
clothes and they may go on the assumption that you are in the trade, hence
perhaps get a discount

Good luck
Jon

"Tim Smith" wrote in message
...
Hi

As I posted a few weeks ago, I was about to embark on tiling a wooden
floor. I have tiled floors before but not on a wooden one.

Too late now but best to use a 2 part flexible adhesive ... and importantly
a waterproof flexible grout, I used a 2 part grout as well.

Rick

Tim Smith wrote:

Hi

As I posted a few weeks ago, I was about to embark on tiling a wooden
floor. I have tiled floors before but not on a wooden one.

The floor was a floating chipboard floor which I covered in 12mm marine
ply and screwed every 6" in every direction. I then painted with a coat of
PVA and water.

Over the weekend (it now being wednesday morning) I tiled about half the
floor (30 tiles) using Unibond ready mixed tile adhesive for wooden
floors.

I then stayed off the floor until this morngin but noticed that about 5 or
6 of the tiles still move up and down by a few mm's. I assumed that I
hadnt glued it properyl so I took one of the tiles up (which happened to
be at an edge). I found that the glue underneath hadnt really set
particularly hard - it was easy to scrape the glue off the floor with an
old chisel.

Im assuming that the glue sets when the moisture evaporates. If this is
correct, does hte fact that the ply is waterproof, thick and painted with
glue make this understandable ? or is something else wrong ?

If it makes any differenece, the tiles are big (45cmx45cm) so there are
less grouting gaps where the air can get in ? Im not sure about the logic
of this but anyway !

Thanks

Tim

Yoiu did use a tile cement didn't you - a flexible cement based one, not
that rubbishy stuff that has to dry out and never does?

Timothy Smith wrote:

Timothy Smith wrote:


Grunff wrote:


Tim Smith wrote:


Over the weekend (it now being wednesday morning) I tiled about half the
floor (30 tiles) using Unibond ready mixed tile adhesive for wooden
floors.

I then stayed off the floor until this morngin but noticed that about 5

or

6 of the tiles still move up and down by a few mm's. I assumed that I
hadnt glued it properyl so I took one of the tiles up (which happened to
be at an edge). I found that the glue underneath hadnt really set
particularly hard - it was easy to scrape the glue off the floor with an
old chisel.

Im assuming that the glue sets when the moisture evaporates. If this is
correct, does hte fact that the ply is waterproof, thick and painted with
glue make this understandable ? or is something else wrong ?



I've used this adhesive for tiling part of a worktop. It takes a very,
very long time to set - much longer than it says on the pot. You need to
allow a week before you walk on them.


The large tiles will also slow things down. Don't worry, just wait.



--
Grunff


Thanks Grunff,


Now Ill have to replace the tile I took up ! I guess my wife will have to
wait before filling the kitchen cupboards again !


Tim


Just a thought,

since the tin said 48hrs and everyhting felt reasonably solid (after all
most of the tiles are) I walked on this last night and the worktop fitters
did for an hour or so yesterday.

Assuming that all the tiles are still level and havent sunk, there isnt
likely to be any other problems been caused by walking on it before it is
fully set are there ? I assume that its best to leave longer then before
putting general traffic but the odd footstep or so shouldnt cause any long
term problems.

Is this correct ?

You will end up with losse tiles.

Get a decent cement and redo it.;

A cementr that SETS not DRIES.


Tim

Christian McArdle wrote:

You can choose to redo it now, or to wait and see what it's
like in a few days. I'd pick the latter.


If you decide to do it again, try a different adhesive. I used Ardex Flex
7001 Timber System and it was excellent. It certainly didn't take 48 hours
to set. The tiles were 600x400mm slates. It's been down for over a year and
there hasn't been so much as a crack in the grout (Ardex Flex FL).


That sounds very similar to waht I suess - ardurit flexible somethig r
other. It goes rubbery in 24 hours and is just walkable on, and is fully
set in about 3 days.

http://www.ardex.co.uk/ardexflex_7001.asp
http://www.ardex.co.uk/ardexflex_fl.asp

Christian.

Timothy Smith wrote:

Christian McArdle wrote:


You can choose to redo it now, or to wait and see what it's
like in a few days. I'd pick the latter.


If you decide to do it again, try a different adhesive. I used Ardex Flex
7001 Timber System and it was excellent. It certainly didn't take 48 hours
to set. The tiles were 600x400mm slates. It's been down for over a year and
there hasn't been so much as a crack in the grout (Ardex Flex FL).


http://www.ardex.co.uk/ardexflex_7001.asp
http://www.ardex.co.uk/ardexflex_fl.asp


Christian.


Would you recommend that it is better to take them up and start again ?

Yes. While you can stiull cleam the crap off.


Obviously this would be better to do before the glue sets any harder and
can be taken off hte tiles.


Yes.
Tim

Christian McArdle wrote:

My only complaint was the setting time - it really did seem
to take forever.


Yes, that's one of the advantages of Ardex Flex 7001TS. It claims it can be
trafficked and grouted after 2 hours.

Christian.


Must be teh rapid set one then. I used the rapid set non flexible for
over concrete - magic stuff, but beware, you have two hours to clean it
off the tiles or hours of fun trying once its set....

Timothy Smith wrote:

Christian McArdle wrote:


You can choose to redo it now, or to wait and see what it's
like in a few days. I'd pick the latter.


If you decide to do it again, try a different adhesive. I used Ardex Flex
7001 Timber System and it was excellent. It certainly didn't take 48 hours
to set. The tiles were 600x400mm slates. It's been down for over a year and
there hasn't been so much as a crack in the grout (Ardex Flex FL).


http://www.ardex.co.uk/ardexflex_7001.asp
http://www.ardex.co.uk/ardexflex_fl.asp


Christian.



Just spoke to Unibond who claim that the problem is that I let the
PVA/water mix dry. The say that their instructions specify tiling the
floor whilst it is damp. Ill have to check at home.

He also says that the fact that they have been walked on may well mean
that the adhesion between the tile and the glue is now broken.

Im tempted to take the tiles up whilst the glue is still damp and try to
clean them off and get it done properly.

Christian - would the Ardex glue have problems with me having let the PVA
dry do you know ?

It did not in my case.

Tim

Timothy Smith wrote:

Jonathan Pearson wrote:



"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
x.net...

If you decide to do it again, try a different adhesive. I used Ardex Flex
7001 Timber System and it was excellent. It certainly didn't take 48 hours
to set. The tiles were 600x400mm slates. It's been down for over a year
and
there hasn't been so much as a crack in the grout (Ardex Flex FL).

http://www.ardex.co.uk/ardexflex_7001.asp
http://www.ardex.co.uk/ardexflex_fl.asp

Christian.


Same stuff, same application, same results, 2 yrs down the line - very very
happy - not cheap but then again I was putting down slates which weren't
cheap either


Jon


Just spoke to Ardex. They recommended a light sanding to remove the PVA
from the floor and then using their primer ?

Did you use their primer ?


Nope.

Tim

Rick Hughes wrote:

"Tim Smith" wrote in message
...

Hi

As I posted a few weeks ago, I was about to embark on tiling a wooden
floor. I have tiled floors before but not on a wooden one.


Too late now but best to use a 2 part flexible adhesive ... and importantly
a waterproof flexible grout, I used a 2 part grout as well.

Rick


I did my grouting with BAL mediuem. It has cracked a little where the
tiles meet a stuid walll, but that was expected as there is still
shrinkage going on there.

Its not a 100% waterproof, but that has not resulted in any issues
wherever I have used it - even wet rooms.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Tim Smith wrote:

Hi

As I posted a few weeks ago, I was about to embark on tiling a wooden
floor. I have tiled floors before but not on a wooden one.

The floor was a floating chipboard floor which I covered in 12mm marine
ply and screwed every 6" in every direction. I then painted with a coat
of
PVA and water.

Over the weekend (it now being wednesday morning) I tiled about half the
floor (30 tiles) using Unibond ready mixed tile adhesive for wooden
floors. I then stayed off the floor until this morngin but noticed that
about 5 or
6 of the tiles still move up and down by a few mm's. I assumed that I
hadnt glued it properyl so I took one of the tiles up (which happened to
be at an edge). I found that the glue underneath hadnt really set
particularly hard - it was easy to scrape the glue off the floor with an
old chisel. Im assuming that the glue sets when the moisture evaporates.
If this is
correct, does hte fact that the ply is waterproof, thick and painted with
glue make this understandable ? or is something else wrong ?

If it makes any differenece, the tiles are big (45cmx45cm) so there are
less grouting gaps where the air can get in ? Im not sure about the logic
of this but anyway !

Thanks Tim

Yoiu did use a tile cement didn't you - a flexible cement based one, not
that rubbishy stuff that has to dry out and never does?

Hi all

Thanks for the advice and responses.

In the end I took up all the tiles so that I can make sure it is properly
done.

I reckon there were about 30 tiles I took up and I think I broke 2. I reckon
this just gives an indication of how soft the adhesive was even after 5
days.

It was reasonably easy (although tiring) to scrape the semi-drying adhesive
off hte floor using a wallpaper scraper.

End result, SWMBO has banned me from doing it (as I have many many other
jobs to do) and has demanded that we get a tiler in. After the work putting
them down and taking up, Im acutally reasonably happy to agree.

On a good note though, I went back to B&Q where I had bought the 6 tubs of
Unibond and explained that I had used 4 and still had 2 left. They agreed
without so much as an argument that if I took all 6 back (2 full and the
empty tubs) then they would refund the whole lot ! I guess this is probably
what Im entitled to since it didnt work, but it was refreshing not to have
to argue about it....all credit to B&Q in this case.

Tim