Door closers on every internal door - normal?
 

Hi

We've just moved into a newly converted flat and every single door
(even the broom cupboard) has one of those concealed chain door closers
fitted.

Propping doors open is a right pain, so I'm tempted to remove some of
them (hopefully without trapping my fingers in the chain...). Before I
do though, I thought I'd check whether any of this is likely to be
required by building or fire regulations - can anyone enlighten me?

Thanks in advance

Mark

markc wrote:

We've just moved into a newly converted flat and every single door
(even the broom cupboard) has one of those concealed chain door closers
fitted.

Propping doors open is a right pain, so I'm tempted to remove some of
them (hopefully without trapping my fingers in the chain...). Before I
do though, I thought I'd check whether any of this is likely to be
required by building or fire regulations - can anyone enlighten me?

They often are; considering the extra expense it's unlikely they would
have been fitted without good reason. These will be fire doors, too,
it's not just the door closers. It's impossible to say for sure without
more details about the flat and building, but the phrase "newly
converted flat" is a strong clue that these would have been a building
regs requrement.

Broom cupboard sounds a bit OTT though!

David

Lobster wrote:
markc wrote:

We've just moved into a newly converted flat and every single door
(even the broom cupboard) has one of those concealed chain door
closers fitted.

Propping doors open is a right pain, so I'm tempted to remove some of
them (hopefully without trapping my fingers in the chain...). Before
I do though, I thought I'd check whether any of this is likely to be
required by building or fire regulations - can anyone enlighten me?

They often are; considering the extra expense it's unlikely they would
have been fitted without good reason. These will be fire doors, too,
it's not just the door closers. It's impossible to say for sure
without more details about the flat and building, but the phrase
"newly converted flat" is a strong clue that these would have been a
building regs requrement.

Broom cupboard sounds a bit OTT though!


What's the layout of the whole building? ISTR some regs on all doors having
to be 'fire doors' when you got to three floors or more.

"PC Paul" wrote in message
o.uk...
Lobster wrote:
markc wrote:

We've just moved into a newly converted flat and every single door
(even the broom cupboard) has one of those concealed chain door
closers fitted.

Propping doors open is a right pain, so I'm tempted to remove some of
them (hopefully without trapping my fingers in the chain...). Before
I do though, I thought I'd check whether any of this is likely to be
required by building or fire regulations - can anyone enlighten me?

They often are; considering the extra expense it's unlikely they would
have been fitted without good reason. These will be fire doors, too,
it's not just the door closers. It's impossible to say for sure
without more details about the flat and building, but the phrase
"newly converted flat" is a strong clue that these would have been a
building regs requrement.

Broom cupboard sounds a bit OTT though!


What's the layout of the whole building? ISTR some regs on all doors
having to be 'fire doors' when you got to three floors or more.



AIUI, according to the local BCO that I had a chat with ...
self-closing doors are required on all 'habitable rooms'.
Their intention is to prevent the ingress of fire into
a habited room allowing the occupant to get out via the fire exit.
{that's another can of worms) of that room. They are not required
for EC, bathrooms (nor broom-cupboards) that are not habited
in the definition. IT could have been that the purchaser had
a price break for ten/dozen and decided to use it anyway.
If they been fitted for Fire purposes then the door-stops
(wooden bits around the frame that the door closes against)
should be 'wide' in the plane of the door.

--

Brian

markc wrote:
Hi

We've just moved into a newly converted flat and every single door
(even the broom cupboard) has one of those concealed chain door closers
fitted.

Propping doors open is a right pain, ... snip

Isn't that what fire extinguishers are for...? ;-)

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 12:10:49 GMT, "Brian Sharrock"
wrote:

AIUI, according to the local BCO that I had a chat with ...
self-closing doors are required on all 'habitable rooms'.
Their intention is to prevent the ingress of fire into
a habited room allowing the occupant to get out via the fire exit.
{that's another can of worms) of that room. They are not required
for EC, bathrooms (nor broom-cupboards) that are not habited
in the definition. IT could have been that the purchaser had
a price break for ten/dozen and decided to use it anyway.
If they been fitted for Fire purposes then the door-stops
(wooden bits around the frame that the door closes against)
should be 'wide' in the plane of the door.

Do the doors have intumescent strips around the periphery? If so they
are fire doors.

sponix

On 25 Jul 2005 02:50:36 -0700, "markc" wrote:

Hi

We've just moved into a newly converted flat and every single door
(even the broom cupboard) has one of those concealed chain door closers
fitted.

Propping doors open is a right pain, so I'm tempted to remove some of
them (hopefully without trapping my fingers in the chain...). Before I
do though, I thought I'd check whether any of this is likely to be
required by building or fire regulations - can anyone enlighten me?

Thanks in advance

Mark

It the building is more than 3 stories, you need fire doors, for every
door, including the medicne cabinet. My buiding inspetor let me off
and I just have them for main rooms.

And once he goes away, all the door closers come off.

Rick

AIUI, according to the local BCO that I had a chat with ...
self-closing doors are required on all 'habitable rooms'.
Their intention is to prevent the ingress of fire into
a habited room allowing the occupant to get out via the fire exit.


Its the other way round - the intention is to prevent fire within a
room spreading to the escape route to the outside. If you are in the
room with a fire then you know about it and escape, but if the fire is
in another room you want to be able to leave your room when the alarm
goes off, to a safe escape route not in flames. We have to do the same
with our chapel conversion. They are only looking after us!

cheers

Jacob

"s--p--o--n--i--x" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 12:10:49 GMT, "Brian Sharrock"
wrote:

AIUI, according to the local BCO that I had a chat with ...
self-closing doors are required on all 'habitable rooms'.
Their intention is to prevent the ingress of fire into
a habited room allowing the occupant to get out via the fire exit.
{that's another can of worms) of that room. They are not required
for EC, bathrooms (nor broom-cupboards) that are not habited
in the definition. IT could have been that the purchaser had
a price break for ten/dozen and decided to use it anyway.
If they been fitted for Fire purposes then the door-stops
(wooden bits around the frame that the door closes against)
should be 'wide' in the plane of the door.

Do the doors have intumescent strips around the periphery? If so they
are fire doors.

sponix

But ... ! It's not required to have intumescent (?) strips on all
doors - only 'new' doors. AIUI, existing doors need to be modified
by the addition of self-closers _and_ increased width door-stop
strips and if fitted with glazing by the substitution of wired-glass.

--

Brian

markc wrote:

We've just moved into a newly converted flat and every single door
(even the broom cupboard) has one of those concealed chain door closers
fitted.

Propping doors open is a right pain, so I'm tempted to remove some of
them (hopefully without trapping my fingers in the chain...). Before I
do though, I thought I'd check whether any of this is likely to be
required by building or fire regulations - can anyone enlighten me?

Yes, this is the usual building/fire reg nonsense. (Fine in principle
but if the nuisance factor means the default is to have doors propped
open then they make matters worse.)
You will also suffer from the noise made by your neighbours as they go
from room to room leaving the doors to slam behind them.

To remove concealed closers: open door wide, clamp chain with mole
wrench, unscrew plate on door frame, The spring tension can be reduced
by unscrewing the chain.



--
David Clark

$message_body_include ="PLES RING IF AN RNSR IS REQIRD"

Hmm, it's a 4 storey Victorian house that's been converted into 4
flats, so maybe the builders were doing the right thing after all.

If the regulations do specify this it does seems a huge wasted effort,
since 95% of people will get fed up and wedge the doors open anyway....

Thanks for all the advice everybody

Mark

wrote in message
oups.com...

AIUI, according to the local BCO that I had a chat with ...
self-closing doors are required on all 'habitable rooms'.
Their intention is to prevent the ingress of fire into
a habited room allowing the occupant to get out via the fire exit.


Its the other way round - the intention is to prevent fire within a
room spreading to the escape route to the outside. If you are in the
room with a fire then you know about it and escape, but if the fire is
in another room you want to be able to leave your room when the alarm
goes off, to a safe escape route not in flames. We have to do the same
with our chapel conversion. They are only looking after us!


I have to admit , initially I thought that too ...
but the BCO pointed out several things ...
Which side of the door are the door stops on?
Every habitable room has to have a defined opening
aperture in its window(s) - which must be a proportion
of the floor area. ...Bdg Regs B1 - provision of openable
windows for Fire Escape. In other words - get out of the window
The Fire Doors are intended to provide one with n minutes of
opportunity FD20; FD30 etc. before the fire ingress and/or
the Fire-Fighters arrive (whichever is the lesser).
If you hear a fire alarm - and it's not _in_ your room: the last
thing you should do is open your door (What's on the other side?)
and traverse into ... (what danger?).

We are, of course, discussing Domestic dwellings and not
Hotels, Hospitals, Offices which will have other fire-restraining
equipment (sprinklers; corridor partitioning doors; dedicated
non-flammable stair wells; external fire-escape stairs; ... ).
A chapel would have started its 'approved' use as a public
building with different regulations applied.


--

Brian