Idiot kitchen installer drilled through my electrics
 

finished all the electrics in my kitchen. Have two cables in 38mm wide
capping neatly plastered into the wall. 1 cable is for under cupboard
lighting, the other is for a spur outlet for a cooker hood. Both are
connected to the ring via switched double pole fused units.

My installer (ok, I know it's meant to be DIY, but I was running out of
time doing stuff by myself), despite being given a cable detector and
having the capping outlined on the wall in pencil with the word "WIRES"
written on it, managed to drill a hole right through the middle of the
capping.

AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!


it looks like the drill may have gone in between the cables and may not
have damaged them. Have checked both cables by connecting stuff to
them. They worked and nothing tripped in the CU. Is there some sort of
test that I can do using my Fluke 89 to see if the insulation really
has been damaged?

Someone said I should fill the hole with silicon sealer instead of poly
filler.

Any thoughts?

On 7 Jun 2005 07:27:56 -0700, "Rob" wrote:

[The kitchen installer]

managed to drill a hole right through the middle of the
capping.

it looks like the drill may have gone in between the cables and may not
have damaged them. Have checked both cables by connecting stuff to
them. They worked and nothing tripped in the CU. Is there some sort of
test that I can do using my Fluke 89 to see if the insulation really
has been damaged?

Personally I would want to visually check the cables to see if there
was any mechanical damage, rather than relying on test instruments in
such a case.

It is usually possible to cut a small hole in the plaster and capping
without doing too much damage.

Someone said I should fill the hole with silicon sealer instead of poly
filler.

I would use the filler.


John
--
John White
SCA Electrical, Manchester http://www.scaelectrical.co.uk/
Domestic and commercial electrical contractors

Rob wrote:
finished all the electrics in my kitchen. Have two cables in 38mm wide
capping neatly plastered into the wall. 1 cable is for under cupboard
lighting, the other is for a spur outlet for a cooker hood. Both are
connected to the ring via switched double pole fused units.

My installer (ok, I know it's meant to be DIY, but I was running out of
time doing stuff by myself), despite being given a cable detector and
having the capping outlined on the wall in pencil with the word "WIRES"
written on it, managed to drill a hole right through the middle of the
capping.
snip
it looks like the drill may have gone in between the cables and may not
have damaged them. Have checked both cables by connecting stuff to
them. They worked and nothing tripped in the CU. Is there some sort of
test that I can do using my Fluke 89 to see if the insulation really
has been damaged?

No.
At best you need a megger, but even that won't certainly detect cable damage.
Consider a point on the live wire, where it's 99% sheared, and carrying all
the load.

In practice, this is unlikely, however, the right way to do this is to expose
the cables.

This isn't that big a job.
Chisel/... a 100mm or so length to expose the capping.
Now, using a hacksaw blade, cut carefully through the capping in one line,
and bend the other side out.
If OK, then simply slip a 50mm length of capping under the end, stick it
in place somehow, and bend back down, before patching.

Rob wrote:
finished all the electrics in my kitchen. Have two cables in 38mm wide
capping neatly plastered into the wall. 1 cable is for under cupboard
lighting, the other is for a spur outlet for a cooker hood. Both are
connected to the ring via switched double pole fused units.

My installer (ok, I know it's meant to be DIY, but I was running out of
time doing stuff by myself), despite being given a cable detector and
having the capping outlined on the wall in pencil with the word "WIRES"
written on it, managed to drill a hole right through the middle of the
capping.

Why can't you tape some cord to the cable, pull it out and inspect
it, and pull it back in if OK?

"Rob" wrote in message
ups.com...
finished all the electrics in my kitchen. Have two cables in 38mm wide
capping neatly plastered into the wall. 1 cable is for under cupboard
lighting, the other is for a spur outlet for a cooker hood. Both are
connected to the ring via switched double pole fused units.

My installer (ok, I know it's meant to be DIY, but I was running out of
time doing stuff by myself), despite being given a cable detector and
having the capping outlined on the wall in pencil with the word "WIRES"
written on it, managed to drill a hole right through the middle of the
capping.

AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!


it looks like the drill may have gone in between the cables and may not
have damaged them. Have checked both cables by connecting stuff to
them. They worked and nothing tripped in the CU. Is there some sort of
test that I can do using my Fluke 89 to see if the insulation really
has been damaged?

Someone said I should fill the hole with silicon sealer instead of poly
filler.

Any thoughts?


Don't guess! CAREFULLY scrape/trim away a bit of the capping so you can see
what condition the cables under it are in. You can patch over it if they are
OK. If they aren't you will have to replace the damaged bit(s)

On 7 Jun 2005 07:27:56 -0700, Rob wrote:

My installer (ok, I know it's meant to be DIY, but I was running out
of time doing stuff by myself), despite being given a cable detector
and having the capping outlined on the wall in pencil with the word
"WIRES" written on it, managed to drill a hole right through the
middle of the capping.

Why are you bothering about even thinking of investigating or
repairing yourself. It's pure negligence on the part of the installer.

Get a few quotes from reputable sparks to inspect, fix, make good and
*tell* him to choose one. Then send the bill to him or deduct it from
his fee (better).

Of course in these days of Part P I can't see how a "kitchen
installer" cannot be a qualified spark, unless he is just a monkey
hanging cupboards...

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
Rob wrote:
finished all the electrics in my kitchen. Have two cables in 38mm wide
capping neatly plastered into the wall. 1 cable is for under cupboard
lighting, the other is for a spur outlet for a cooker hood. Both are
connected to the ring via switched double pole fused units.

My installer (ok, I know it's meant to be DIY, but I was running out of
time doing stuff by myself), despite being given a cable detector and
having the capping outlined on the wall in pencil with the word "WIRES"
written on it, managed to drill a hole right through the middle of the
capping.
snip
it looks like the drill may have gone in between the cables and may not
have damaged them. Have checked both cables by connecting stuff to
them. They worked and nothing tripped in the CU. Is there some sort of
test that I can do using my Fluke 89 to see if the insulation really
has been damaged?

No.
At best you need a megger, but even that won't certainly detect cable
damage.
Consider a point on the live wire, where it's 99% sheared, and carrying
all
the load.

Hope you dont mind me asking this but what would/could happen in this
scenario?

In practice, this is unlikely, however, the right way to do this is to
expose
the cables.

Also what is the likely damage in this scenario?

Pete.

In article . com,
"Rob" writes:
My installer (ok, I know it's meant to be DIY, but I was running out of
time doing stuff by myself), despite being given a cable detector and
having the capping outlined on the wall in pencil with the word "WIRES"
written on it, managed to drill a hole right through the middle of the
capping.

AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Same as a JCB digger and an 11,000V cable I mentioned a few
weeks ago. There was no problem until someone showed him where
the 11,000V cable was, and about 3 minutes later, pop and out
when all the lights...

it looks like the drill may have gone in between the cables and may not
have damaged them. Have checked both cables by connecting stuff to
them. They worked and nothing tripped in the CU. Is there some sort of
test that I can do using my Fluke 89 to see if the insulation really
has been damaged?

Someone said I should fill the hole with silicon sealer instead of poly
filler.

Any thoughts?

Since you used capping, can you use the existing cable to draw
a new length in? Or is there enough slack to pull the potentially
damaged cable area through to a box where it can be inspected?
This is what I did above my bathroom ceiling when a friend who
was helping me screw up the plasterboard put one of the screws
straight through the conduit to the central light BESA box.
As it happened, the cable was unharmed, but I would not know that
without pulling it through enough to inspect it.

--
Andrew Gabriel

Possible I'd think, but a ragged hole might shred the new cable
insulation as it's pulled in.

PeteZahut wrote:

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
Rob wrote:
finished all the electrics in my kitchen. Have two cables in 38mm wide
capping neatly plastered into the wall. 1 cable is for under cupboard
lighting, the other is for a spur outlet for a cooker hood. Both are
connected to the ring via switched double pole fused units.

My installer (ok, I know it's meant to be DIY, but I was running out of
time doing stuff by myself), despite being given a cable detector and
having the capping outlined on the wall in pencil with the word "WIRES"
written on it, managed to drill a hole right through the middle of the
capping.
snip
it looks like the drill may have gone in between the cables and may not
have damaged them. Have checked both cables by connecting stuff to
them. They worked and nothing tripped in the CU. Is there some sort of
test that I can do using my Fluke 89 to see if the insulation really
has been damaged?

No.
At best you need a megger, but even that won't certainly detect cable
damage.
Consider a point on the live wire, where it's 99% sheared, and carrying
all
the load.

Hope you dont mind me asking this but what would/could happen in this
scenario?

The worst case would be a small fire, that if conditions are just right
(combustibles next to wire), could escalate into a large fire, and possibly
into a conflagration that sets the world alight.

This is unlikely, but not by any means impossible.

Dave Liquorice wrote:

Of course in these days of Part P I can't see how a "kitchen
installer" cannot be a qualified spark, unless he is just a monkey
hanging cupboards...

If only... There's an extra-speshul Skeme for various trade monkeys to
pay 200 quid to sit in a windowless room for half a day, and come out
with a Sistificate to pronounce them Competent.

The price of joke Sistificates will probably come down, too, as the
money-for-old-rope self-serving trade associations (not the NICEIC, but
various 'professional kitchen installer', 'professional bathroom
installer' associations run out of someone's garage cotton on to the
boondongle.

Thanks, Mr Prescott, for making us all so much safer...

On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 19:43:39 +0100, Stefek Zaba wrote:

If only... There's an extra-speshul Skeme for various trade monkeys
to pay 200 quid to sit in a windowless room for half a day, and come
out with a Sistificate to pronounce them Competent.

And no doubt there is no way that a "member of the public" could do
the same thing?

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

In message ,
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

pop and out when all the lights...

'Twas on a Wednesday morning the electrician came...

http://www.iankitching.me.uk/humour/hippo/gas.html

Hwyl!

M.

--
Martin Angove: http://www.tridwr.demon.co.uk/
Two free issues: http://www.livtech.co.uk/ Living With Technology
.... This message is $hareWare! To register, please send $20

In message , Martin Angove
writes
In message ,
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

pop and out when all the lights...

'Twas on a Wednesday morning the electrician came...

http://www.iankitching.me.uk/humour/hippo/gas.html

404

Maybe you mean flanders and Swann?



--
geoff

On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 23:26:03 GMT, raden babbled
like a waterfall and said:

In message , Martin Angove
writes
In message ,
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

pop and out when all the lights...

'Twas on a Wednesday morning the electrician came...

http://www.iankitching.me.uk/humour/hippo/gas.html

404

Maybe you mean flanders and Swann?

Why would a glazier have a blowtorch??

In message , EricP
writes
On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 23:26:03 GMT, raden babbled
like a waterfall and said:

In message , Martin Angove
writes
In message ,
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

pop and out when all the lights...

'Twas on a Wednesday morning the electrician came...

http://www.iankitching.me.uk/humour/hippo/gas.html

404

Maybe you mean flanders and Swann?

Why would a glazier have a blowtorch??

You got me there

no idea what you're on about (unless it's in the lyrics, which I can't
remember)

--
geoff

On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 00:01:46 GMT, raden babbled
like a waterfall and said:

In message , EricP
writes
On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 23:26:03 GMT, raden babbled
like a waterfall and said:

In message , Martin Angove
writes
In message ,
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

pop and out when all the lights...

'Twas on a Wednesday morning the electrician came...

http://www.iankitching.me.uk/humour/hippo/gas.html

404

Maybe you mean flanders and Swann?

Why would a glazier have a blowtorch??

You got me there

no idea what you're on about (unless it's in the lyrics, which I can't
remember)

Yep, he's got his putty and his blowtorch.

I have the putty, just need a use for the damn blowtorch then.

In article ,
EricP wrote:

Why would a glazier have a blowtorch??


Yep, he's got his putty and his blowtorch.
I have the putty, just need a use for the damn blowtorch then.

To mend those old fashioned leaded windows?

--
Tony Williams.

"EricP" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 00:01:46 GMT, raden babbled
like a waterfall and said:

In message , EricP
writes
On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 23:26:03 GMT, raden babbled
like a waterfall and said:

In message , Martin
Angove
writes
In message ,
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

pop and out when all the lights...

'Twas on a Wednesday morning the electrician came...

http://www.iankitching.me.uk/humour/hippo/gas.html

404

Maybe you mean flanders and Swann?

Why would a glazier have a blowtorch??

You got me there

no idea what you're on about (unless it's in the lyrics, which I
can't
remember)

Yep, he's got his putty and his blowtorch.

I have the putty, just need a use for the damn blowtorch then.



Replacing leaded lights

AWEM

In article ,
Martin Angove writes:
In message ,
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

pop and out when all the lights...

'Twas on a Wednesday morning the electrician came...

http://www.iankitching.me.uk/humour/hippo/gas.html

Yes, I was saying that to myself as I typed the line...

--
Andrew Gabriel

In article , Stefek Zaba
wrote:

If only... There's an extra-speshul Skeme for various trade monkeys to
pay 200 quid to sit in a windowless room for half a day, and come out
with a Sistificate to pronounce them Competent.

I thought it was a Sustificate ?


--
AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems
http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk

In message ,
raden wrote:

In message , Martin Angove
writes
In message ,
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

pop and out when all the lights...

'Twas on a Wednesday morning the electrician came...

http://www.iankitching.me.uk/humour/hippo/gas.html

404

That's odd, worked fine for me last night, and works fine now :-)

Maybe you mean flanders and Swann?

How'd you guess?

Hwyl!

M.


--
Martin Angove: http://www.tridwr.demon.co.uk/
Two free issues: http://www.livtech.co.uk/ Living With Technology
.... (C)ontrol (A)lt (B)ye

"Rob" wrote in message
ups.com...
finished all the electrics in my kitchen. Have two cables in 38mm wide
capping neatly plastered into the wall. 1 cable is for under cupboard
lighting, the other is for a spur outlet for a cooker hood. Both are
connected to the ring via switched double pole fused units.

My installer (ok, I know it's meant to be DIY, but I was running out of
time doing stuff by myself), despite being given a cable detector and
having the capping outlined on the wall in pencil with the word "WIRES"
written on it, managed to drill a hole right through the middle of the
capping.

AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!


it looks like the drill may have gone in between the cables and may not
have damaged them. Have checked both cables by connecting stuff to
them. They worked and nothing tripped in the CU. Is there some sort of
test that I can do using my Fluke 89 to see if the insulation really
has been damaged?

Someone said I should fill the hole with silicon sealer instead of poly
filler.

Don't you complain, my neighbour had recently just had his kitchen refitted,
a nice job compared to the original builders fitted kitchen, and fitters lad
came back to supply and fit some missing shelves and managed to saw through
rising main flooding the nice new kitchen till deep enough to flow over and
out the back door !!!!!. Of course no one had a tool to turn water off in
street, he couldn't phone his boss (who could have done something about it)
as his mobile had been washed away. I think

Luckily damage was confined to kitchen and carpet of one downstairs room,
but fitter fitted a nice new kitchen again as chipboard, even expensive 18mm
(?) units chipboard does not take kindly to being immersed.

In message , Martin Angove
writes
In message ,
raden wrote:

In message , Martin Angove
writes
In message ,
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

pop and out when all the lights...

'Twas on a Wednesday morning the electrician came...

http://www.iankitching.me.uk/humour/hippo/gas.html

404

That's odd, worked fine for me last night, and works fine now :-)

Yup it works for me now


--
geoff

On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 23:29:08 GMT, EricP wrote:

Why would a glazier have a blowtorch??

Stripping paint

You can soften old putty with one, making glass removal easier.

The one thing you can't do with a bare flame is to solder lead came in a
leaded light.

In article , "Andy
Dingley" says...
On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 23:29:08 GMT, EricP wrote:

Why would a glazier have a blowtorch??

Stripping paint

You can soften old putty with one, making glass removal easier.

The one thing you can't do with a bare flame is to solder lead came in a
leaded light.

But you can use a blowtorch to heat a soldering iron.

"Rob Morley" wrote in message
t...
In article , "Andy
Dingley" says...
On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 23:29:08 GMT, EricP
wrote:

Why would a glazier have a blowtorch??

Stripping paint

You can soften old putty with one, making glass removal easier.

The one thing you can't do with a bare flame is to solder lead
came in a
leaded light.

But you can use a blowtorch to heat a soldering iron.

IIRC the preferred iron for leaded lights was a copper bar of about
1/2" diam tapered to 1/4" at the end and mounted in a handle with a
small gas flame playing directly on the bar - the chunkyness of the
copper bar gave enough thermal mass to do the joint and kept the flame
well away from the glass.

AWEM