Hi All, my joiner bless him, has boarded all the vaulted ceilings in
the house and forgotten where all the wires for the spot lights are,
sparky is playing hell, ceilings have been skimmed to boot. Anyone any
ideas on how to find them, we can't make them live and detect them as
most are just wires ready to make up loops, I'm hoping someone will
come up with something that will stop the ceiling looking like an Edam.
Cheers Bod

On 31 May 2005 09:51:46 -0700, "Bod" strung together
this:

Hi All, my joiner bless him, has boarded all the vaulted ceilings in
the house and forgotten where all the wires for the spot lights are,
sparky is playing hell, ceilings have been skimmed to boot. Anyone any
ideas on how to find them, we can't make them live and detect them as
most are just wires ready to make up loops, I'm hoping someone will
come up with something that will stop the ceiling looking like an Edam.

Tell your electrician he's a tit and he should have measured out where
they are and noted it down for just this occasion. If he moans, tell
him he is an arse. If he rips half the ceiling down to find the
cables, tell him he is paying for a new ceiling, and that he is an
arse.
--

SJW
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject

Bod wrote:
Hi All, my joiner bless him, has boarded all the vaulted ceilings in
the house and forgotten where all the wires for the spot lights are,
sparky is playing hell, ceilings have been skimmed to boot. Anyone any
ideas on how to find them, we can't make them live and detect them as
most are just wires ready to make up loops, I'm hoping someone will
come up with something that will stop the ceiling looking like an Edam.
Cheers Bod

If you've access to one end of the wires, there's cable-tracing
equipment you can buy or hire - don't need to inject 240VAC; the kit I'm
thinking of gets used for datacomms (computer network) tracing.

If you've pieces which are entirely inaccessible, your only chance is to
do 'generic' metal detecting, with something decent like a Zircon
(full-priced but quick delivery at rswww.com, several models by Zircon
and others under Products - Test & Measurement - T & M Equipt -
Electrical Test - Cable & Metal Detectors. Without a signal in the
cable, you're only going to find it within, in reality, a couple of
inches of the surface, in my experience. If you really really really
crawl to your sparks, he might buy the locator off you for say half what
you paid for it, to make the wallet shock a bit less severe to you. (And
if he's *really* on the level, he won't pad up his bill by that other
half, either ;-)

Otherwise, get ready to make a number of say 1-inch diam holes, big
enough to get a little inspection mirror up one and a thin floursecent
inspection lamp up t'other, and enjoy a game of 'fish the cable' with
bits of galvanised wire with a hook bent in the end ;-)

Best of luck - Stefek

"Lurch" wrote in message
...
On 31 May 2005 09:51:46 -0700, "Bod" strung together
this:

Hi All, my joiner bless him, has boarded all the vaulted ceilings in
the house and forgotten where all the wires for the spot lights are,
sparky is playing hell, ceilings have been skimmed to boot. Anyone any
ideas on how to find them, we can't make them live and detect them as
most are just wires ready to make up loops, I'm hoping someone will
come up with something that will stop the ceiling looking like an Edam.

Tell your electrician he's a tit and he should have measured out where
they are and noted it down for just this occasion. If he moans, tell
him he is an arse. If he rips half the ceiling down to find the
cables, tell him he is paying for a new ceiling, and that he is an
arse.
--

SJW

Yes, and then tell him he's a plonker while your at it.....

what you need is a tone tracer like the ones BT use. Unfortunatly it wont
find the loop end wires but if you find a few of the live ends it will
possibly make it a little easier to guess the rest.

What about a fibre optic or small camera, will still leave you with a few
holes but might be better.

On Tue, 31 May 2005 18:35:32 +0000 (UTC), "Paul"
strung together this:

what you need is a tone tracer like the ones BT use.

Not just BT, I use several, with different tones. They're only about
40GBP from http://www.millsltd.co.uk

Unfortunatly it wont
find the loop end wires but if you find a few of the live ends it will
possibly make it a little easier to guess the rest.

Perhaps having the live ends available will jog his memory a bit, the
tit.

There is also the chance that this won't work, as tone set isn't
overly sensitive at any distance. If the cables are a reasonable
distance from the plasterboard then it might not work at all.
--

SJW
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject

"Bod" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi All, my joiner bless him, has boarded all the vaulted ceilings in
the house and forgotten where all the wires for the spot lights are,
sparky is playing hell, ceilings have been skimmed to boot. Anyone any
ideas on how to find them, we can't make them live and detect them as
most are just wires ready to make up loops, I'm hoping someone will
come up with something that will stop the ceiling looking like an Edam.
Cheers Bod

I have to agree with Lurch on this one, your sparky must be a moron to not
know where the cables would be !!

I suppose there are loads of nails in the boards so a metal detector is of no use?

how about make the holes for the lights anyway (where you want them) and then fish for the wires with coat hangers.

"Bod" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi All, my joiner bless him, has boarded all the vaulted ceilings in
the house and forgotten where all the wires for the spot lights are,
sparky is playing hell, ceilings have been skimmed to boot. Anyone any
ideas on how to find them, we can't make them live and detect them as
most are just wires ready to make up loops, I'm hoping someone will
come up with something that will stop the ceiling looking like an Edam.
Cheers Bod


Why can't the sparks cut the holes for the lighting, and then stick a hand
in with a hooked wired to feel for the cables? It's not going to make any
more holes than you need, and with a fishing wire he'll feel the cable and
pull them out. Even if the cables are all in one bundle right in the center
of the void, they'll be easy to find.

Crazy bugger if he doesn't know where he fixed the cables to match the
lighting points.

Cant really blame electrician, he had agreed with man who puts boards
on that he would pull them through, there wouldn't be a problem if
there was no Insulation at back, there is 100mm of kingspan. The
question is, is there anything that will detect the copper? the
plastic? through 100mm of Kingspan + 12.5mm board, the ceiling already
looks like a piece of cheese, the goood think is I aint payed the
joiner for boarding yet so hopefully this will pay for the repairs, any
other ideas and help will be appreciated, any comments on how
ridiculous the situation is will not, fools state the obvious,
engineers solve the problems

"Bod" wrote in message
oups.com...


Cant really blame electrician, he had agreed with man who puts boards
on that he would pull them through, there wouldn't be a problem if
there was no Insulation at back, there is 100mm of kingspan. The
question is, is there anything that will detect the copper? the
plastic? through 100mm of Kingspan + 12.5mm board, the ceiling already
looks like a piece of cheese, the goood think is I aint payed the
joiner for boarding yet so hopefully this will pay for the repairs, any
other ideas and help will be appreciated, any comments on how
ridiculous the situation is will not, fools state the obvious,
engineers solve the problems

I would go with Wig & BigWallops idea of cutting the holes anyway and
fishing around for the cables - if the sparky has done his job reasonably
well the cables should be in reach fairly easily, good luck.

Appreciate the reply but----- when you cut the hole away (75mm) your
hit the 100mm of insulation, you then only have 50mm to the roof felt,
so there aint much room for fishing!!

"Bod" wrote in message
oups.com...
Appreciate the reply but----- when you cut the hole away (75mm) your
hit the 100mm of insulation, you then only have 50mm to the roof felt,
so there aint much room for fishing!!


But your sparks should be used to it, if he's any good that is.

Absolutely no help for your predicament, but with the advent of digital
cameras
(and a lot of hindsight) it would've been wise to take photographs of
the
layout before the final stages to help you locate pipes, cables and the
like.

Similarly, when dismantling some complicated piece of machinery it may
be
worthwhile to photograph the stages of dismantling to aid reassembly
later.
How often have you dismantled something then there's been a couple of
days
delay to acquire a new part and then you realise that your memory isn't
as good
as you thought it would be... aaaargh!

Mungo

P.S. No way to find the wires from the OTHER side of the ceiling?
Remove a few
tiles maybe and fish about?

In article .com,
"Bod" says...
Appreciate the reply but----- when you cut the hole away (75mm) your
hit the 100mm of insulation, you then only have 50mm to the roof felt,
so there aint much room for fishing!!


Get hold of an endoscope and look for the cables?

Edam it is then

"Bod" wrote in message
oups.com...
Edam it is then


ROFLMAO!!!!! Poor man.

So continue the hole up through the kingspan. The wire has to be there. Presumably he placed the wire between the relevant rafters prior to the joiner coming along and fitting the kingspan and plasterboards?

Bod wrote:
Edam it is then

yep, just refit the lot. Anything else is pointless. Unles youve got
access to one end of the cables, which you should have, then you can
inject rf and trace the cable paths.

Hey, Edam can be made to look like a deliberate style


NT

In article .com,
"Bod" says...
Edam it is then


Emmentaler?

wrote:

Absolutely no help for your predicament, but with the advent of digital
cameras
(and a lot of hindsight) it would've been wise to take photographs of
the
layout before the final stages to help you locate pipes, cables and the
like.

Similarly, when dismantling some complicated piece of machinery it may
be
worthwhile to photograph the stages of dismantling to aid reassembly
later.
How often have you dismantled something then there's been a couple of
days
delay to acquire a new part and then you realise that your memory isn't
as good
as you thought it would be... aaaargh!


Did this when replacing a PSU on my big plotter, and was eternally
grateful that I had.

Mungo

P.S. No way to find the wires from the OTHER side of the ceiling?
Remove a few
tiles maybe and fish about?

Bod wrote:
Hi All, my joiner bless him, has boarded all the vaulted ceilings in
the house and forgotten where all the wires for the spot lights are,
sparky is playing hell, ceilings have been skimmed to boot. Anyone any
ideas on how to find them, we can't make them live and detect them as
most are just wires ready to make up loops, I'm hoping someone will
come up with something that will stop the ceiling looking like an Edam.
Cheers Bod


I am unable to help in any way. I just want to
add something to the list of names your spark has earned.

The 20 watt twit!

Arthur.

Thanks for all the replies, useful and not so useful, finally got
sorted, found all apart from 1 and got this by cutting chunk from
plasterboard, all filled and painted. No one would ever know the hassle
i have had, cheers