DIYbanter - Part P hilarity

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Hi all,

I'm looking for a "competent person" to sign off the moved sockets and
extended lighting ring in my kitchen. However, going to the search
page at http://www.partp.co.uk/common/search.asp and typing in London
gives nothing.

Have I missed something?

Antony

In article .com,
"antgel" writes:
Hi all,

I'm looking for a "competent person" to sign off the moved sockets and

There is no process which involves you looking for a "competent person"
to sign off your electrical work (at least not for Part P purposes).

The BCO might want to find a "competent person" if they don't consider
themselves competent, but that's their problem, not yours (and the BCO
is not constrained to using a Part P electrician -- they can use anyone
competent, possibly even you).

extended lighting ring in my kitchen. However, going to the search
page at http://www.partp.co.uk/common/search.asp and typing in London
gives nothing.

Have I missed something?

You seem to have misunderstood the procedure.

--
Andrew Gabriel

And that's _after_ doing my research! I blame Tony Blair. :-)

I'll give the BCO a shout tomorrow. According to www.partp.co.uk,
"lighting circuit" comes under the list of things that I should have
notified the BCO about. As there is no verb in the phrase (at least I
assume lighting isn't used as a verb here), can someone tell me what
this means? I have extended my lighting circuit to provide six lights
in the lounge, but as it's not in the kitchen or bathroom, and is an
extension of the existing circuit, I thought that was exempt from
notification.

Also, "flat" is in the list of locations. Does this mean that _any_
work I do in my flat has to be notified?

I can't believe I'm still confused after reading quite a bit about
this...

Antony

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
.. .
In article .com,
"antgel" writes:

I'm looking for a "competent person" to sign off the moved sockets
and

There is no process which involves you looking for a "competent
person"
to sign off your electrical work (at least not for Part P purposes).

The BCO might want to find a "competent person" if they don't consider
themselves competent, but that's their problem, not yours (and the BCO
is not constrained to using a Part P electrician -- they can use
anyone
competent, possibly even you).

Have I missed something?

You seem to have misunderstood the procedure.

Unless he happens to live in the area governed by a loose group of
councils including Bristol, for example, whose leaflet says:

"There are two routes available to applicants to ensure they comply with
Part P:-

1. Use an electrician/installer who is registered with a Competent
Person's scheme, in which case a building regulation application will
not be required for the electrical work.

We would strongly encourage the use of electricians/installers who are
part of a Competent Person Scheme.

2. Submit a Building Regulation application to the Local Authority:

A. Where an electrician registered with a recognised trade body such as
NICEIC, ECA & NAPIT (who need not be registered under a competent
persons scheme)
tests the work and issues a design, installation and test certificate
under
BS7671. Building Control will accept the certificate as evidence that
the work complies with Part P.

Additional inspections by Building Control may also be carried out in
conjunction with
the acceptance of a certificate (a list of those electricians competent
to inspect and
test will be available on the internet at labc-services.co.uk).

B. Where the work is carried out by an unregistered electrician or is a
DIY installation, the applicant is required to have the work inspected
and tested by a
registered electrician as in A. above."

Note there's no mention that they'll pay for this - and they'll have
pocketed either 50 or 100 quid for the application. So no, they don't
demand inspection by a "competent person" - just by someone with the
right card.

--
Kevin Poole
**Use current month and year to reply (e.g. )***
Car Transport by Tiltbed Trailer - based near Derby

In article .com,
"antgel" writes:
And that's _after_ doing my research! I blame Tony Blair. :-)

I'll give the BCO a shout tomorrow. According to www.partp.co.uk,
"lighting circuit" comes under the list of things that I should have
notified the BCO about. As there is no verb in the phrase (at least I
assume lighting isn't used as a verb here), can someone tell me what
this means? I have extended my lighting circuit to provide six lights
in the lounge, but as it's not in the kitchen or bathroom, and is an
extension of the existing circuit, I thought that was exempt from
notification.

Well, you said it was in the kitchen in your original post.

Also, "flat" is in the list of locations. Does this mean that _any_
work I do in my flat has to be notified?

No.

I can't believe I'm still confused after reading quite a bit about
this...

Well, it was a particularly crass piece of legislation.
There seems little agreement on what is intended.

--
Andrew Gabriel

In article ,
"Autolycus" writes:
Unless he happens to live in the area governed by a loose group of
councils including Bristol, for example, whose leaflet says:

"There are two routes available to applicants to ensure they comply with
Part P:-

2. Submit a Building Regulation application to the Local Authority:

B. Where the work is carried out by an unregistered electrician or is a
DIY installation, the applicant is required to have the work inspected
and tested by a
registered electrician as in A. above."

I thought the ODPM had written to LA's telling they are not allowed
to do this as it imposes additional charges which are not permitted.
That is what your £100 (or whatever) is supposed to pay for.

--
Andrew Gabriel

Sorry - google won't let me reply to just one section. I added lights
to the ring in both the lounge and kitchen. In any case, what I put in
the OP doesn't have any bearing on the fact that I don't understand the
website. I read so many posts slating Part P, thinking "how bad can it
be?" and now I understand...

Antony

Someone I know had been doing some electrical work in their kitchen,
started researching PartP and got very worried about it. They phoned
the local council and got put through to the head BCO.

" I want to speak to someone about Part P please"

apparently you could almost hear the sucking in of breath followed by
the response

"a poorly worded and badly thought out piece of legislation. Because of
that we have given everyone a period of grace up to April 1st"

What then followed was a discussion about how rediculous a lot of
electrical legislation is.

Eg. kitchens being so small these days that is impossible to meet
requirements about the placing of sockets and sinks.

Anyway, the work had begun before April the 1st, so everything was OK.

Interestingly, when the electrical work was being carried out, the
kitchen wasn't actually a kitchen. No furniture, no sink completely
stripped bare. Could this be a work intensive way around the
legislation?

What then followed was a discussion about how rediculous a lot of
electrical legislation is.

Eg. kitchens being so small these days that is impossible to meet
requirements about the placing of sockets and sinks.

Particularly as the regulations say nothing specific about the proximity of
sinks and sockets.

People generally don't place closer than 300mm, but this is under a general
guideline that fittings should be suitable for their installed location and
300mm (i.e. a foot) just seemed about right for a non-IP rated item and is
not written anywhere official.

Christian.

Christian McArdle wrote:

People generally don't place closer than 300mm, but this is under a general
guideline that fittings should be suitable for their installed location and
300mm (i.e. a foot) just seemed about right for a non-IP rated item and is
not written anywhere official.

Well, FWIW, it is written in the new IEE "Electrician's Guide to the
Building Regulations" which is a sort of companion to the OSG. Yes it
is clearly stated to be general guidance, but like a lot of what's in
the OSG it may become hard to defend work which falls significantly
short of this IEE guidance.

This is my précis of the guidance on "location of accessories in kitchens":

(i) accessories to be on building fabric, not on kitchen furniture;

(ii) control switches to be mounted to avoid need to reach over hobs;

(iii) sockets to be a minimum of 450 mm above floor;

(iv) accessories a min. of 300 mm from edge of sink or draining board;

(v) sockets for washing m/c's or dishwashers etc. to be positioned
so as not to be dripped or splashed on if plumbing leaks;

(vi) sockets to be min. 150 mm above worktop (to centre-line of skt);

(vii) sockets supplying under-worktop appliances to be accessible when
appliance pulled out;

(viii)built-in appliances to be connected to socket or FCU that is
readily accessible when appliance is in normal use, OR controlled
by readily accessible DP switch or switched FCU;

(ix) light switches to be readily accessible;

(x) manufacturer's instructions should be followed.

--
Andy