Hi all,

decided to go green (and cut water bills) by having a water butt fed from
our gutters, and pumping the water into a tank in the loft which will feed
both toilets (I am estimating 50% of out water goes down the pan, and yes
they're both dual flush).

Because we are in a bungalow, we will need to pump the water up to the loft.
If I put my butt (ha ha) at garage level, it'll be c 13-15ft from the bottom
to the loft.

Anyone suggest any problems with this scheme, and possible sources for a
pump. It needn't be fast, just suited for running outdoors.

Thanks in advance

"Jethro" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

decided to go green (and cut water bills) by having a water butt fed from
our gutters, and pumping the water into a tank in the loft which will feed
both toilets (I am estimating 50% of out water goes down the pan, and yes
they're both dual flush).

Because we are in a bungalow, we will need to pump the water up to the
loft.
If I put my butt (ha ha) at garage level, it'll be c 13-15ft from the
bottom
to the loft.

Anyone suggest any problems with this scheme, and possible sources for a
pump. It needn't be fast, just suited for running outdoors.

Thanks in advance



A search for 'rainwater toilet' on google led me to this document
http://www.rainharvesting.co.uk/pdfs...d%20layout.pdf
which looks interesting.

Peter

Jethro wrote:
Hi all,

decided to go green (and cut water bills) by having a water butt fed from
our gutters, and pumping the water into a tank in the loft which will feed
both toilets (I am estimating 50% of out water goes down the pan, and yes
they're both dual flush).

Because we are in a bungalow, we will need to pump the water up to the loft.
If I put my butt (ha ha) at garage level, it'll be c 13-15ft from the bottom
to the loft.

Anyone suggest any problems with this scheme, and possible sources for a
pump. It needn't be fast, just suited for running outdoors.

Couldn't you mount the water butt at drain/roof height on a tower of
some description with a suitable overflow, then feed toilets direct from
collecting butt thereby eliminating the need to waste electrical
resources to save water?

Won't green water & midge larvae be a bit off putting to visitors in the
summer?
:¬)

--
http://gymratz.co.uk - Best Gym Equipment & Bodybuilding Supplements UK.
http://trade-price-supplements.co.uk - TRADE PRICED SUPPLEMENTS for ALL!
http://fitness-equipment-uk.com - UK's No.1 Fitness Equipment Suppliers.
http://gymratz.co.uk/hot-seat.htm - Live web-cam! (sometimes)

Jethro wrote:
Hi all,

decided to go green (and cut water bills) by having a water butt fed
from
our gutters, and pumping the water into a tank in the loft which will
feed
both toilets (I am estimating 50% of out water goes down the pan,
and yes
they're both dual flush).

Because we are in a bungalow, we will need to pump the water up to
the loft.
If I put my butt (ha ha) at garage level, it'll be c 13-15ft from the
bottom
to the loft.

Anyone suggest any problems with this scheme, and possible sources
for a
pump. It needn't be fast, just suited for running outdoors.

Thanks in advance


There are definite problems there.
1. Your bungalow roof is unlikely to be rated to take a tonne of water.
2. Youll have whiffing water in your roofspace
3. Youll need to plumb cold mains to the tank to top it up when rain is
short.

I would suggest a rather better approach:
1. Put water tank on ground, or even underground if you prefer it out
the way
2. Fit float switch to cisterns
3. Fit small pump and pipe to tank, pump powered by float switch.
4. Turn the flow right down of the mains ballvalve fill.

Now:
no structural problems
no water storage whiffs
mainteance is all at ground level and easy
bog automatically fills with mains water when no rainwater
no mains plumbing

Typically 50% of house water is used in toilet flush.


NT

"Jethro" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

decided to go green (and cut water bills) by having a water butt fed
from
our gutters, and pumping the water into a tank in the loft which
will feed
both toilets (I am estimating 50% of out water goes down the pan,
and yes
they're both dual flush).


And just how are you going to power this 'pump thingy', hand pump,
wind pump, solar panel driven electric motor ?....

Very wise to cut the cost of your water bill, assuming you are feed
via a meter but please oh please cut the 'going green' bullsh*t.

"Jethro" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

decided to go green (and cut water bills) by having a water butt fed from
our gutters, and pumping the water into a tank in the loft which will feed
both toilets (I am estimating 50% of out water goes down the pan, and yes
they're both dual flush).

CUT
Doubt if you will cut down your water bill, as all rainwater belongs to the
area water company. If you discharge any water into a drain or sewer it is
managed by them and they want paying for this treatment.
How do you intend pumping the water into the loft, by hand pump, electric
power or diesel, Not very green is it.

Jethro wrote:
Hi all,

decided to go green (and cut water bills) by having a water butt fed
from our gutters, and pumping the water into a tank in the loft which
will feed both toilets (I am estimating 50% of out water goes down
the pan, and yes they're both dual flush).

Because we are in a bungalow, we will need to pump the water up to
the loft. If I put my butt (ha ha) at garage level, it'll be c
13-15ft from the bottom to the loft.

Anyone suggest any problems with this scheme, and possible sources
for a pump. It needn't be fast, just suited for running outdoors.

Thanks in advance

Not answering the pump question, but have you got some kind of filter
arrangement?
You probably don't want moss and leaves clogging your tank, pipes or cistern
valves!

I have recently installed a garden irrigation system from scratch - I don't
want my sprinklers getting smegged up with crap off the roof, so here is
what I have done.

I have two 1500 litre barrels (formally use for shipping fruit juice!)
These are interconnected and used as my main holding tanks.

Water off the roof is fed into a smaller barrel (Usual garden butt type) via
one of those pond plant baskets, filled with gravel - this filters all the
big bits out.

In this smaller butt, there is a pump with a float switch (£25 from Netto if
I remember correctly!)
This pumps the water into the big barrels (Height difference of about 4m)

There is then another pump (Much higher pressure) in one of the big barrels
(not the one the pipe from the smaller one enters, to reduce smeg!)

After this pump, there is an in-line filter to catch smaller bits
(http://www.grovelands.com/acatalog/G...ng_system.html)
5th thing down
(http://tinyurl.com/cvqpa)

Let me know if you would like any more details!

Sparks...

On Thu, 19 May 2005 18:20:47 GMT, "keith_765"
wrote:


Doubt if you will cut down your water bill, as all rainwater belongs to the
area water company. If you discharge any water into a drain or sewer it is
managed by them and they want paying for this treatment.
How do you intend pumping the water into the loft, by hand pump, electric
power or diesel, Not very green is it.

It might be worth checking with the local water company.

There was a case a few years ago where a pub was on a water meter. The
landlord decided to set up a system that collected rain water from the
guttering around the pub and used it to flush the urinals.

The local water company threatened to sue the landlord of the public
house. I can't remember why or the final outcome or whether the water
company had a valid claim.

Graham

"Sparks" wrote in message
.. .
Jethro wrote:
Hi all,

decided to go green (and cut water bills) by having a water butt fed
from our gutters, and pumping the water into a tank in the loft which
will feed both toilets (I am estimating 50% of out water goes down
the pan, and yes they're both dual flush).

Because we are in a bungalow, we will need to pump the water up to
the loft. If I put my butt (ha ha) at garage level, it'll be c
13-15ft from the bottom to the loft.

Anyone suggest any problems with this scheme, and possible sources
for a pump. It needn't be fast, just suited for running outdoors.

Thanks in advance

Not answering the pump question, but have you got some kind of filter
arrangement?
You probably don't want moss and leaves clogging your tank, pipes or
cistern
valves!

I have recently installed a garden irrigation system from scratch - I
don't
want my sprinklers getting smegged up with crap off the roof, so here is
what I have done.

I have two 1500 litre barrels (formally use for shipping fruit juice!)
These are interconnected and used as my main holding tanks.

Water off the roof is fed into a smaller barrel (Usual garden butt type)
via
one of those pond plant baskets, filled with gravel - this filters all the
big bits out.

In this smaller butt, there is a pump with a float switch (£25 from Netto
if
I remember correctly!)
This pumps the water into the big barrels (Height difference of about 4m)

There is then another pump (Much higher pressure) in one of the big
barrels
(not the one the pipe from the smaller one enters, to reduce smeg!)

After this pump, there is an in-line filter to catch smaller bits

(http://www.grovelands.com/acatalog/G...er_watering_sy
stem.html)
5th thing down
(http://tinyurl.com/cvqpa)

Let me know if you would like any more details!

Sparks...

You can have your water charges reduced by using this sort of arrangement.
If the water is above the toilets then you can have it supply these too.
Best have a changeover mechanism that switches over to the mains when the
tanks are dry.


_________________________________________
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More than 120,000 groups
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"Sparks" wrote in message
.. .
Jethro wrote:
Hi all,

decided to go green (and cut water bills) by having a water butt fed
from our gutters, and pumping the water into a tank in the loft which
will feed both toilets (I am estimating 50% of out water goes down
the pan, and yes they're both dual flush).

Because we are in a bungalow, we will need to pump the water up to
the loft. If I put my butt (ha ha) at garage level, it'll be c
13-15ft from the bottom to the loft.

Anyone suggest any problems with this scheme, and possible sources
for a pump. It needn't be fast, just suited for running outdoors.

Thanks in advance

Not answering the pump question, but have you got some kind of filter
arrangement?
You probably don't want moss and leaves clogging your tank, pipes or
cistern
valves!

I have recently installed a garden irrigation system from scratch - I
don't
want my sprinklers getting smegged up with crap off the roof, so here is
what I have done.

I have two 1500 litre barrels (formally use for shipping fruit juice!)
These are interconnected and used as my main holding tanks.

Water off the roof is fed into a smaller barrel (Usual garden butt type)
via
one of those pond plant baskets, filled with gravel - this filters all the
big bits out.

In this smaller butt, there is a pump with a float switch (£25 from Netto
if
I remember correctly!)
This pumps the water into the big barrels (Height difference of about 4m)

There is then another pump (Much higher pressure) in one of the big
barrels
(not the one the pipe from the smaller one enters, to reduce smeg!)

After this pump, there is an in-line filter to catch smaller bits

Why not have this filter on the line from the small Netto butt to the two
large barrels to prevent any debris entering these. Cut out the debris at
the earliest stage. It saves having to clean these out.


http://www.grovelands.com/acatalog/G...r_watering_sys
tem.html)
5th thing down
(http://tinyurl.com/cvqpa)

Let me know if you would like any more details!

Sparks...



_________________________________________
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More than 120,000 groups
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You can have your water charges reduced by using this sort of
arrangement.

Didnt know about this!
I am not currently on a meter, but am going to install one myself to see how
much water I am actually using before switching (AIUI I can get the
waterboard to install one for me free, and have the potion to switch back,
however, this means the mext owner of the property will have to use this
meter - and as the next owner may well be me (It's me ma's!), I may not want
this!

If the water is above the toilets then you can have it
supply these too. Best have a changeover mechanism that switches over
to the mains when the tanks are dry.

Unfoutunaly they are not (But I could use the irrigation pump I suppose,
it's abot 2 bar!)

Sparks...

After this pump, there is an in-line filter to catch smaller bits

Why not have this filter on the line from the small Netto butt to the
two large barrels to prevent any debris entering these. Cut out the
debris at the earliest stage. It saves having to clean these out.

This is very true, I will probably install a second in-line filter, just to
make sure any smeg that may have grown in the barrels does not get into my
sprinklers!

Sparks...

wrote in message
oups.com...
Jethro wrote:
Hi all,

decided to go green (and cut water bills) by having a water butt fed
from
our gutters, and pumping the water into a tank in the loft which will
feed
both toilets (I am estimating 50% of out water goes down the pan,
and yes
they're both dual flush).

Because we are in a bungalow, we will need to pump the water up to
the loft.
If I put my butt (ha ha) at garage level, it'll be c 13-15ft from the
bottom
to the loft.

Anyone suggest any problems with this scheme, and possible sources
for a
pump. It needn't be fast, just suited for running outdoors.

Thanks in advance


There are definite problems there.
1. Your bungalow roof is unlikely to be rated to take a tonne of water.
2. Youll have whiffing water in your roofspace
3. Youll need to plumb cold mains to the tank to top it up when rain is
short.

I would suggest a rather better approach:
1. Put water tank on ground, or even underground if you prefer it out
the way
2. Fit float switch to cisterns

What do you mean by cistern and tank? Where and what is what?

3. Fit small pump and pipe to tank, pump powered by float switch.
4. Turn the flow right down of the mains ballvalve fill.

Now:
no structural problems
no water storage whiffs
mainteance is all at ground level and easy
bog automatically fills with mains water when no rainwater
no mains plumbing

Typically 50% of house water is used in toilet flush.


NT


_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

In article ,
writes:
On Thu, 19 May 2005 18:20:47 GMT, "keith_765"
wrote:


Doubt if you will cut down your water bill, as all rainwater belongs to the
area water company. If you discharge any water into a drain or sewer it is
managed by them and they want paying for this treatment.
How do you intend pumping the water into the loft, by hand pump, electric
power or diesel, Not very green is it.

It might be worth checking with the local water company.

You need permission to put rainwater down a sewer (regardless
of what you used the rainwater for) in most areas. You can be
charged extra for doing this. In the two cases I know of,
they didn't charge any extra, but these were both cases of
simply connecting the rainwater gutters directly to the sewer
in areas where that wasn't normally done, so it was just
increasing the water content in the sewer, not the sewage
content.

There was a case a few years ago where a pub was on a water meter. The
landlord decided to set up a system that collected rain water from the
guttering around the pub and used it to flush the urinals.

The local water company threatened to sue the landlord of the public
house. I can't remember why or the final outcome or whether the water
company had a valid claim.

I guess they would want payment for the sewage treatment.
This is normally based on the water supply usage, on the
basis that this mostly gets used for flushing waste into
the sewer. Actually, the sewage treatment charge is normally
significanly higher than the equivalent water supply charge.

--
Andrew Gabriel

"keith_765" wrote in message
...

"Jethro" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

decided to go green (and cut water bills) by having a water butt fed
from
our gutters, and pumping the water into a tank in the loft which will
feed
both toilets (I am estimating 50% of out water goes down the pan, and
yes
they're both dual flush).

CUT
Doubt if you will cut down your water bill, as all rainwater belongs to
the
area water company. If you discharge any water into a drain or sewer it
is
managed by them and they want paying for this treatment.
How do you intend pumping the water into the loft, by hand pump, electric
power or diesel, Not very green is it.

Water bills are on par with heating a house now. Cutting out the garden
watering and toilet flushes will probably drop consumption by well over half
per ann. Running a low wattage pump to run it is well worth it.

How does it cut water bills? Are you serious? You use less through your
meter? Many water companies will reduce your water charge per cu meter if
you have rainwater harvesting as you don't put rainwater through the sewers.
You use the sewers less.


_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 May 2005 18:20:47 GMT, "keith_765"
wrote:


Doubt if you will cut down your water bill, as all rainwater belongs to
the
area water company. If you discharge any water into a drain or sewer it
is
managed by them and they want paying for this treatment.
How do you intend pumping the water into the loft, by hand pump,
electric
power or diesel, Not very green is it.

It might be worth checking with the local water company.

There was a case a few years ago where a pub was on a water meter. The
landlord decided to set up a system that collected rain water from the
guttering around the pub and used it to flush the urinals.

The local water company threatened to sue the landlord of the public
house. I can't remember why or the final outcome or whether the water
company had a valid claim.

Most homes in the UK are charged for water using a rating system. Water
charges are for water and sewage - supply and discharge. A water meter can
be installed free of charge. The average new home, now has higher water
charges than space and water heating. People will go to great lengths to
reduce heating bills, yet totally ignore any measures to reduce water
consumption.

Vast quantities of water are needlessly run off to waste, due to taps mixers
and showers discharging flow rates are far in excess of what is require to
perform their functions. It is worth seriously considering reducing water
consumption on economic and environmental grounds.

Two taps half open can discharge over 20 litres per minute. With flow
regulators fitted this can be reduced to a collective 10 to 12 litres per
minute, with no loss of usage for the user. Likewise with showers. An
unregulated shower can discharge 25 to 30 litres per minute. When
regulated, 10 to 15 litres per minute is possible giving a comfortable
shower to the user. Aerated taps reduce water usage.

http://www.bes.ltd.uk sell flow regulators.

The pub. The water meter charge is for supply and sewage. Now he is
getting water from his roof and putting right back down the sewer. He is
using the sewer with water not purchased from the utility. In short, not
paying for the use of it.

If you don't put rainwater down the sewer and use rainwater for flushes and
washing machine then you may get a reduction in the water rate per cu metre.
Rainwater can overload a sewer in a flash storm. A roof collects a hell of
a lot of water and can fill a 4000 litre tank up quickly. Approximately
100m3 of water falls on the average detached house per year.

A pre-made system consists of a large tank sized to store 12 weeks of usage
to cope with a drought. They can be easily retrofitted in most homes with a
garden and pay back in about 6 to 8 years in a two bath detached house with
4 to 5 people.

_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
oups.com...
snip

I would suggest a rather better approach:
1. Put water tank on ground, or even underground if you prefer it
out
the way
2. Fit float switch to cisterns

What do you mean by cistern and tank? Where and what is what?

The man doesn't know the difference between a tank and a cistern. Sad
but true !....

There are definite problems there.
1. Your bungalow roof is unlikely to be rated to take a tonne of
water.
2. Youll have whiffing water in your roofspace
3. Youll need to plumb cold mains to the tank to top it up when rain
is short.

I would suggest a rather better approach:
1. Put water tank on ground, or even underground if you prefer it out
the way
2. Fit float switch to cisterns

What do you mean by cistern and tank? Where and what is what?

As I understand it,
Tank = primamry rain-water storage
Cistern = the thing that holds the water just before it us flushed down the
toilet

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 May 2005 18:20:47 GMT, "keith_765"
wrote:


Doubt if you will cut down your water bill, as all rainwater belongs to
the
area water company. If you discharge any water into a drain or sewer it
is
managed by them and they want paying for this treatment.
How do you intend pumping the water into the loft, by hand pump,
electric
power or diesel, Not very green is it.

It might be worth checking with the local water company.

There was a case a few years ago where a pub was on a water meter. The
landlord decided to set up a system that collected rain water from the
guttering around the pub and used it to flush the urinals.

The local water company threatened to sue the landlord of the public
house. I can't remember why or the final outcome or whether the water
company had a valid claim.

Most homes in the UK are charged for water using a rating system. Water
charges are for water and sewage - supply and discharge. A water meter can
be installed free of charge. The average new home, now has higher water
charges than space and water heating. People will go to great lengths to
reduce heating bills, yet totally ignore any measures to reduce water
consumption.

Vast quantities of water are needlessly run off to waste, due to taps mixers
and showers discharging flow rates are far in excess of what is require to
perform their functions. It is worth seriously considering reducing water
consumption on economic and environmental grounds.

Two taps half open can discharge over 20 litres per minute. With flow
regulators fitted this can be reduced to a collective 10 to 12 litres per
minute, with no loss of usage for the user. Likewise with showers. An
unregulated shower can discharge 25 to 30 litres per minute. When
regulated, 10 to 15 litres per minute is possible giving a comfortable
shower to the user. Aerated taps reduce water usage.

http://www.bes.ltd.uk sell flow regulators.

The pub. The water meter charge is for supply and sewage. Now he is
getting water from his roof and putting right back down the sewer. He is
using the sewer with water not purchased from the utility. In short, not
paying for the use of it.

If you don't put rainwater down the sewer and use rainwater for flushes and
washing machine then you may get a reduction in the water rate per cu metre.
Rainwater can overload a sewer in a flash storm. A roof collects a hell of
a lot of water and can fill a 4000 litre tank up quickly. Approximately
100m3 of water falls on the average detached house per year.

A pre-made system consists of a large tank sized to store 12 weeks of usage
to cope with a drought. They can be easily retrofitted in most homes with a
garden and pay back in about 6 to 8 years in a two bath detached house with
4 to 5 people.

_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 May 2005 18:20:47 GMT, "keith_765"
wrote:


Doubt if you will cut down your water bill, as all rainwater belongs to
the
area water company. If you discharge any water into a drain or sewer it
is
managed by them and they want paying for this treatment.
How do you intend pumping the water into the loft, by hand pump,
electric
power or diesel, Not very green is it.

It might be worth checking with the local water company.

There was a case a few years ago where a pub was on a water meter. The
landlord decided to set up a system that collected rain water from the
guttering around the pub and used it to flush the urinals.

The local water company threatened to sue the landlord of the public
house. I can't remember why or the final outcome or whether the water
company had a valid claim.

Most homes in the UK are charged for water using a rating system. Water
charges are for water and sewage - supply and discharge. A water meter can
be installed free of charge. The average new home, now has higher water
charges than space and water heating. People will go to great lengths to
reduce heating bills, yet totally ignore any measures to reduce water
consumption.

Vast quantities of water are needlessly run off to waste, due to taps mixers
and showers discharging flow rates are far in excess of what is require to
perform their functions. It is worth seriously considering reducing water
consumption on economic and environmental grounds.

Two taps half open can discharge over 20 litres per minute. With flow
regulators fitted this can be reduced to a collective 10 to 12 litres per
minute, with no loss of usage for the user. Likewise with showers. An
unregulated shower can discharge 25 to 30 litres per minute. When
regulated, 10 to 15 litres per minute is possible giving a comfortable
shower to the user. Aerated taps reduce water usage.

http://www.bes.ltd.uk sell flow regulators.

The pub. The water meter charge is for supply and sewage. Now he is
getting water from his roof and putting right back down the sewer. He is
using the sewer with water not purchased from the utility. In short, not
paying for the use of it.

If you don't put rainwater down the sewer and use rainwater for flushes and
washing machine then you may get a reduction in the water rate per cu metre.
Rainwater can overload a sewer in a flash storm. A roof collects a hell of
a lot of water and can fill a 4000 litre tank up quickly. Approximately
100m3 of water falls on the average detached house per year.

A pre-made system consists of a large tank sized to store 12 weeks of usage
to cope with a drought. They can be easily retrofitted in most homes with a
garden and pay back in about 6 to 8 years in a two bath detached house with
4 to 5 people.

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 May 2005 18:20:47 GMT, "keith_765"
wrote:


Doubt if you will cut down your water bill, as all rainwater belongs to
the
area water company. If you discharge any water into a drain or sewer it
is
managed by them and they want paying for this treatment.
How do you intend pumping the water into the loft, by hand pump,
electric
power or diesel, Not very green is it.

It might be worth checking with the local water company.

There was a case a few years ago where a pub was on a water meter. The
landlord decided to set up a system that collected rain water from the
guttering around the pub and used it to flush the urinals.

The local water company threatened to sue the landlord of the public
house. I can't remember why or the final outcome or whether the water
company had a valid claim.

Most homes in the UK are charged for water using a rating system. Water
charges are for water and sewage - supply and discharge. A water meter can
be installed free of charge. The average new home, now has higher water
charges than space and water heating. People will go to great lengths to
reduce heating bills, yet totally ignore any measures to reduce water
consumption.

Vast quantities of water are needlessly run off to waste, due to taps mixers
and showers discharging flow rates are far in excess of what is require to
perform their functions. It is worth seriously considering reducing water
consumption on economic and environmental grounds.

Two taps half open can discharge over 20 litres per minute. With flow
regulators fitted this can be reduced to a collective 10 to 12 litres per
minute, with no loss of usage for the user. Likewise with showers. An
unregulated shower can discharge 25 to 30 litres per minute. When
regulated, 10 to 15 litres per minute is possible giving a comfortable
shower to the user. Aerated taps reduce water usage.

http://www.bes.ltd.uk sell flow regulators.

The pub. The water meter charge is for supply and sewage. Now he is
getting water from his roof and putting right back down the sewer. He is
using the sewer with water not purchased from the utility. In short, not
paying for the use of it.

If you don't put rainwater down the sewer and use rainwater for flushes and
washing machine then you may get a reduction in the water rate per cu metre.
Rainwater can overload a sewer in a flash storm. A roof collects a hell of
a lot of water and can fill a 4000 litre tank up quickly. Approximately
100m3 of water falls on the average detached house per year.

A pre-made system consists of a large tank sized to store 12 weeks of usage
to cope with a drought. They can be easily retrofitted in most homes with a
garden and pay back in about 6 to 8 years in a two bath detached house with
4 to 5 people.


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"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
...

snip

Vast quantities of water are needlessly run off to waste, due to
taps mixers
and showers discharging flow rates are far in excess of what is
require to
perform their functions. It is worth seriously considering reducing
water
consumption on economic and environmental grounds.

What environmental grounds are they then, foul waste / detergents yes
but how is discharging 'water' a problem.


Two taps half open can discharge over 20 litres per minute. With
flow
regulators fitted this can be reduced to a collective 10 to 12
litres per
minute, with no loss of usage for the user. Likewise with showers.
An
unregulated shower can discharge 25 to 30 litres per minute. When
regulated, 10 to 15 litres per minute is possible giving a
comfortable
shower to the user. Aerated taps reduce water usage.


Sorry, but the person needs to turn the tap half on to do what they
are doing, otherwise they would not be turning the tap on half way.
Next you'll be telling us that half a glass of water is the same as a
full glass of water....

":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
eenews.net...

"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
...

snip

Vast quantities of water are needlessly run off to waste, due to
taps mixers
and showers discharging flow rates are far in excess of what is
require to
perform their functions. It is worth seriously considering reducing
water
consumption on economic and environmental grounds.

What environmental grounds are they then, foul waste / detergents yes
but how is discharging 'water' a problem.


Two taps half open can discharge over 20 litres per minute. With
flow
regulators fitted this can be reduced to a collective 10 to 12
litres per
minute, with no loss of usage for the user. Likewise with showers.
An
unregulated shower can discharge 25 to 30 litres per minute. When
regulated, 10 to 15 litres per minute is possible giving a
comfortable
shower to the user. Aerated taps reduce water usage.


Sorry, but the person needs to turn the tap half on to do what they
are doing, otherwise they would not be turning the tap on half way.
Next you'll be telling us that half a glass of water is the same as a
full glass of water....

You are a very confused person. Sad but true.

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Two taps half open can discharge over 20 litres per minute. With flow
regulators fitted this can be reduced to a collective 10 to 12 litres
per minute, with no loss of usage for the user.

Well, if the user was cleaning their teeth, leaving the tap running, then
no, but if they were filling a bucket to clean the floor, filling the sink
to do the washing-up or maybe filling a hand-basin or bath (amongst other
things), then it would take considerable longer, this would inconvenience
the user considerably.

Likewise with
showers. An unregulated shower can discharge 25 to 30 litres per
minute. When regulated, 10 to 15 litres per minute is possible
giving a comfortable shower to the user. Aerated taps reduce water
usage.

I would need to experience the two flow rates to be able to comment on this
one!

"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
...

snip

You are a very confused person. Sad but true.


Stop talking about yourself.

":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
eenews.net...

"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
oups.com...
snip

I would suggest a rather better approach:
1. Put water tank on ground, or even underground if you prefer it
out
the way
2. Fit float switch to cisterns

What do you mean by cistern and tank? Where and what is what?

The man doesn't know the difference between a tank and a cistern. Sad
but true !....

You are not getting a poem.

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Sparks wrote:

I am not currently on a meter, but am going to install one myself to
see how
much water I am actually using before switching (AIUI I can get the
waterboard to install one for me free, and have the potion to switch
back,

mistake. Metered charges are much higher, you have to be truly mean to
get lower bills.

Whatever you do, dont lose that potion, or youll kick yourself for the
next 20 years.


NT

Doctor Evil wrote:

Best have a changeover mechanism that switches over to the mains when
the
tanks are dry.

Re switchover mechanisms, it is essential to plumb it in such a way
that rain could never get into the mains, even when the mains goes
negative pressure. If that happens you could have nasty trouble.
Rainwater is not sterile by a long way.

Talking of bacteria, I guess there is some advantage in excess rain
flushing through the primary rain tank rather than diverting, since it
will help make the water cleaner and sweeter, rinsing out pongiform
bugs.


NT

keith_765 wrote:

How do you intend pumping the water into the loft, by hand pump,
electric
power or diesel, Not very green is it.

I did some calcs a few years ago, the cost of leccy use was a weeny
fraction of the water cost savings.

NT

wrote in message
oups.com...
Doctor Evil wrote:

Best have a changeover mechanism that switches over to the mains when
the
tanks are dry.

Re switchover mechanisms, it is essential to plumb it in such a way
that rain could never get into the mains, even when the mains goes
negative pressure. If that happens you could have nasty trouble.
Rainwater is not sterile by a long way.

Talking of bacteria, I guess there is some advantage in excess rain
flushing through the primary rain tank rather than diverting, since it
will help make the water cleaner and sweeter, rinsing out pongiform
bugs.

The packaged systems do this.


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Doctor Evil wrote:

Vast quantities of water are needlessly run off to waste, due to taps
mixers
and showers discharging flow rates are far in excess of what is
require to
perform their functions. It is worth seriously considering reducing
water
consumption on economic and environmental grounds.

Two taps half open can discharge over 20 litres per minute. With
flow
regulators fitted this can be reduced to a collective 10 to 12 litres
per
minute, with no loss of usage for the user. Likewise with showers.
An
unregulated shower can discharge 25 to 30 litres per minute. When
regulated, 10 to 15 litres per minute is possible giving a
comfortable
shower to the user. Aerated taps reduce water usage.

all true. Can you use aerators on showers too?


http://www.bes.ltd.uk sell flow regulators.

everyone sells service valves.


If you don't put rainwater down the sewer and use rainwater for
flushes and
washing machine then you may get a reduction in the water rate per cu
metre.

Rain is not great for washing machines. It can make clothes whiff a bit
at times, and fine grit can prevent the solenoids closing fully. It can
be treated and used, but thats more mullah. Its really only good for
garden and bog.


Approximately
100m3 of water falls on the average detached house per year.

56" per year in UK, multiplied by the roof area less evaporation. A
whole lotta rain.


A pre-made system consists of a large tank sized to store 12 weeks of
usage
to cope with a drought. They can be easily retrofitted in most homes
with a
garden and pay back in about 6 to 8 years in a two bath detached
house with
4 to 5 people.

Sure, but I would not recommened a tank that size, if you store rain
for 12 weeks in hot drought conditions its gonna really pong. That may
be right for a no-mains setup, but for most of us a small cheap tank
with mains backup is better =A3wise.


NT

:::Jerry:::: wrote:
"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
...

What do you mean by cistern and tank? Where and what is what?

The man doesn't know the difference between a tank and a cistern. Sad
but true !....

Brethren and cistern, I'd like to say tank you...

NT

wrote in message
oups.com...
Sparks wrote:

I am not currently on a meter, but am going to install one myself to
see how
much water I am actually using before switching (AIUI I can get the
waterboard to install one for me free, and have the potion to switch
back,

mistake. Metered charges are much higher, you have to be truly mean to
get lower bills.

Whatever you do, dont lose that potion, or youll kick yourself for the
next 20 years.

Those with low water usage usually benefit from a water meter.


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wrote in message
oups.com...
Doctor Evil wrote:

Vast quantities of water are needlessly run off to waste, due to taps
mixers
and showers discharging flow rates are far in excess of what is
require to
perform their functions. It is worth seriously considering reducing
water
consumption on economic and environmental grounds.

Two taps half open can discharge over 20 litres per minute. With
flow
regulators fitted this can be reduced to a collective 10 to 12 litres
per
minute, with no loss of usage for the user. Likewise with showers.
An
unregulated shower can discharge 25 to 30 litres per minute. When
regulated, 10 to 15 litres per minute is possible giving a
comfortable
shower to the user. Aerated taps reduce water usage.

all true. Can you use aerators on showers too?


http://www.bes.ltd.uk sell flow regulators.

everyone sells service valves.

These have cartridge that regulates the flow in an in-line unit. With wash
basins in toilets and the likes, using only 6mm or 8mm pipe is fine. You
see this size on the Continent supplying basins. In the UK we oversize many
pipes.

Rain is not great for washing machines.
It can make clothes whiff a bit
at times,

With a proper filters commercial unit it is fine.

Approximately
100m3 of water falls on the average
detached house per year.

56" per year in UK, multiplied by the roof area
less evaporation. A whole lotta rain.




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Doctor Evil wrote:
wrote in message

http://www.bes.ltd.uk sell flow regulators.

everyone sells service valves.

These have cartridge that regulates the flow in an in-line unit.

no more use than service valves.


With wash
basins in toilets and the likes, using only 6mm or 8mm pipe is fine.
You
see this size on the Continent supplying basins. In the UK we
oversize many
pipes.

I've used microbore sinks, and am not impressed. Much better to use
half inch plus an aerator.


Rain is not great for washing machines.
It can make clothes whiff a bit
at times,

With a proper filters commercial unit it is fine.

yes, but thats no simple job. You have to remove solids, kill bacteria
and flush the filter, while maintaing good flow rate. It is not a case
of a little inline filter.

NT

"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
...

snip

You are not getting a poem.


Good !

wrote in message
ups.com...
Doctor Evil wrote:
wrote in message

http://www.bes.ltd.uk sell flow regulators.

everyone sells service valves.

These have cartridge that regulates the flow in an in-line unit.

no more use than service valves.

Far more use. When it says 10 litres, no more than 10 litres passes
through. These can be used to balance a main pressure water system:
combi.thermal store, unvented cylinder, or even used to reduce water
consumption.

With wash
basins in toilets and the likes,
using only 6mm or 8mm pipe is fine.
You see this size on the Continent
supplying basins. In the UK we
oversize many pipes.

I've used microbore sinks, and am not impressed.

Gives no reason why unimpressed. On a hot pipe far too much water can lost
waiting for the hot to come through when pipes are oversized. Using 6mm to
8mm on a basin mean the hot water is available very quickly and less water
wasted.

Much better to use
half inch plus an aerator.

Some sense here.

Rain is not great for washing machines.
It can make clothes whiff a bit
at times,

With a proper filters commercial unit it is fine.

yes, but thats no simple job. You have to remove solids, kill bacteria
and flush the filter, while maintaing good flow rate. It is not a case
of a little inline filter.

I said proper commercial units. The packaged off the shelf units, usually
made in Germany.



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Doctor Evil wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com..

http://www.bes.ltd.uk sell flow regulators.

everyone sells service valves.

These have cartridge that regulates the flow in an in-line unit.

no more use than service valves.

Far more use. When it says 10 litres, no more than 10 litres passes
through.

yes it regulates, but I'm not sure thats especially useful. In cases
where the mains pressure varies widely it would be the way to go, some
people are on supplies like that, but for the rest of us a 49p service
valve works fine.


With wash
basins in toilets and the likes,
using only 6mm or 8mm pipe is fine.
You see this size on the Continent
supplying basins. In the UK we
oversize many pipes.

I've used microbore sinks, and am not impressed.

Gives no reason why unimpressed.

To get a decent water flow one had to open the tap wide, and you got
adequate flow but at sillyly high pressure, the water would spray all
over the place just when washing hands. Its possible this may be
because the taps were narrow bore as well: if the final tap piping is
half inch the water would slow down, so I guess youre fairly much right
there.

The other downside was that when filling water containers, it was both
slow and delivered at messily high pressure. So fine for bathroom sink,
but slow for kitchen sink. Perhaps a good solution would be hot sink
water on microbore, cold on half inch.


On a hot pipe far too much water can lost
waiting for the hot to come through when pipes are oversized.

good point.


Using 6mm to
8mm on a basin mean the hot water is available very quickly and less
water
wasted.

less waste, yes, much, but i dont think it ill make it any quicker.
Narrower bore means lower flowrate as well as lower capacity.


Much better to use
half inch plus an aerator.

Some sense here.

Rain is not great for washing machines.
It can make clothes whiff a bit
at times,

With a proper filters commercial unit it is fine.

yes, but thats no simple job. You have to remove solids, kill
bacteria
and flush the filter, while maintaing good flow rate. It is not a
case
of a little inline filter.

I said proper commercial units. The packaged off the shelf units,
usually
made in Germany.

I dont know what system you mean, RO?


NT

Doctor Evil wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
Sparks wrote:

I am not currently on a meter, but am going to install one myself
to
see how
much water I am actually using before switching (AIUI I can get
the
waterboard to install one for me free, and have the potion to
switch
back,

mistake. Metered charges are much higher, you have to be truly mean
to
get lower bills.

Whatever you do, dont lose that potion, or youll kick yourself for
the
next 20 years.

Those with low water usage usually benefit from a water meter.


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Surprisingly enough ( well it surprised me) even with a slightly bigger
than average family a water meter is saving me 100 quid per year. Self
+ wife + 3 kids + fair amount of garden watering: roughly 200 quid per
year on the meter; previous charge based on rateable value of house was
around 300 quid per annum.

wrote:

Surprisingly enough ( well it surprised me) even with a slightly
bigger
than average family a water meter is saving me 100 quid per year.
Self
+ wife + 3 kids + fair amount of garden watering: roughly 200 quid
per
year on the meter; previous charge based on rateable value of house
was
around 300 quid per annum.

do you work for the waterboard?

NT