Weird phone problems
 

Hi all,

we have a telephone service from Telewest (Birmingham). The Master socket
has an extension taken off it with wires 2,3 and 5. This feeds 4 phones, all
of which work perfectly.

Acquired a s/h Brother Fax-920 at the weekend, and went to plug it into the
socket which is last in the chain (#4). Doing this caused Phone #2 to ring
continuously. I swapped 2+5 at socket #4, and the ringing went.

Now, however phones #2 and #3 don't ring (#1 and #4 - the fax machine - do).
Also, when I plug the BT "Relate 1000" back into socket #4, then phone #2
rings continously. So either way the socket is wired, causes a problem with
phone #2, depending on which phone is being used.

I have checked the continuity of wire 3 through the circuit, and it's OK.

I tried swapping phone #2 out with another, but it didn't ring either. As
son as the fax machine was unplugged it rang !

Next step is to try at a friends house - see if the fax is kaput, but I got
it from work, where it worked on Thursday.

If anyone has any ideas, I'd be grateful ...

regards

On 09 May 2005, Jethro_uk wrote

Hi all,

we have a telephone service from Telewest (Birmingham). The Master
socket has an extension taken off it with wires 2,3 and 5. This
feeds 4 phones, all of which work perfectly.

Acquired a s/h Brother Fax-920 at the weekend, and went to plug it
into the socket which is last in the chain (#4). Doing this caused
Phone #2 to ring continuously. I swapped 2+5 at socket #4, and the
ringing went.

Now, however phones #2 and #3 don't ring (#1 and #4 - the fax
machine - do). Also, when I plug the BT "Relate 1000" back into
socket #4, then phone #2 rings continously. So either way the
socket is wired, causes a problem with phone #2, depending on
which phone is being used.

I have checked the continuity of wire 3 through the circuit, and
it's OK.

I tried swapping phone #2 out with another, but it didn't ring
either. As son as the fax machine was unplugged it rang !

Next step is to try at a friends house - see if the fax is kaput,
but I got it from work, where it worked on Thursday.

If anyone has any ideas, I'd be grateful ...

I think "ringer equivalents" affect the Telewest system the same as BT
-- maybe not; someone here will know.

Certainly, though, adding the fax has put more than the standard 4 RENs
on the system; that'd be my guess as to why the ringing is all screwed
up.

--
Cheers,
Harvey

Harvey Van Sickle wrote:
On 09 May 2005, Jethro_uk wrote

Hi all,

we have a telephone service from Telewest (Birmingham). The Master
socket has an extension taken off it with wires 2,3 and 5. This
feeds 4 phones, all of which work perfectly.

Acquired a s/h Brother Fax-920 at the weekend, and went to plug it
into the socket which is last in the chain (#4). Doing this caused
Phone #2 to ring continuously. I swapped 2+5 at socket #4, and the
ringing went.

Now, however phones #2 and #3 don't ring (#1 and #4 - the fax
machine - do). Also, when I plug the BT "Relate 1000" back into
socket #4, then phone #2 rings continously. So either way the
socket is wired, causes a problem with phone #2, depending on
which phone is being used.

I have checked the continuity of wire 3 through the circuit, and
it's OK.

I tried swapping phone #2 out with another, but it didn't ring
either. As son as the fax machine was unplugged it rang !

Next step is to try at a friends house - see if the fax is kaput,
but I got it from work, where it worked on Thursday.

If anyone has any ideas, I'd be grateful ...

I think "ringer equivalents" affect the Telewest system the same as BT
-- maybe not; someone here will know.

Certainly, though, adding the fax has put more than the standard 4
RENs on the system; that'd be my guess as to why the ringing is all
screwed up.

Yep, look at the bottom of the equipment, should have a "ren" number on the
bottom, most line can take between 3-5 ren. I suspect that with 4 telephones
and a fax you are prob well over this.

HTH

--
daZza...........


remove "BUT PLUG" to reply ;-)

Jethro_uk wrote:
Acquired a s/h Brother Fax-920 at the weekend, and went to plug it into the
socket which is last in the chain (#4). Doing this caused Phone #2 to ring
continuously.

You've got a miswire which is shorting the bell capacitor (2 and 3)

I swapped 2+5 at socket #4, and the ringing went.
Now, however phones #2 and #3 don't ring (#1 and #4 - the fax machine - do).

At socket #4, try swapping pins 3 and 4 as well.

Owain

On Mon, 09 May 2005 15:46:47 GMT, Jethro_uk wrote:

I swapped 2+5 at socket #4, and the ringing went.

Well you obviously are aware of the normal cause for this I suspect
you have a swap elsewhere and swapping at #4 "corrects" this. Check
*all* the points where there are cable joins.

Now, however phones #2 and #3 don't ring (#1 and #4 - the fax
machine - do).

Pay particular attention to the wiring between #1 and #2, assuming the
order of sockets from the master is 1 2 3 4 ...

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

Jethro_uk wrote:
Hi all,

we have a telephone service from Telewest (Birmingham). The Master socket
has an extension taken off it with wires 2,3 and 5. This feeds 4 phones, all
of which work perfectly.

Acquired a s/h Brother Fax-920 at the weekend, and went to plug it into the
socket which is last in the chain (#4). Doing this caused Phone #2 to ring
continuously. I swapped 2+5 at socket #4, and the ringing went.

Now, however phones #2 and #3 don't ring (#1 and #4 - the fax machine - do).
Also, when I plug the BT "Relate 1000" back into socket #4, then phone #2
rings continously. So either way the socket is wired, causes a problem with
phone #2, depending on which phone is being used.

I have checked the continuity of wire 3 through the circuit, and it's OK.

I tried swapping phone #2 out with another, but it didn't ring either. As
son as the fax machine was unplugged it rang !

Next step is to try at a friends house - see if the fax is kaput, but I got
it from work, where it worked on Thursday.

If anyone has any ideas, I'd be grateful ...

regards



Does the fax have a RJ11 connector, and are you using the original lead?

Continuous ringing is caused by a short between 2 and 3. This can
happen with modem leads, or with a lead that's been damaged.

Note that the original lead (with T-bar plug) can be used by the fax to
detect when the line is in use (avoiding call disruption on sending),
but the telephone extension sockets must be downstream, and wired to the
T-Bar socket.

You need to buy something called a BT Adapter. This should have come with
the fax. It goes between the fax and the line cord. They cost about £2


"Harvey Van Sickle" wrote in message
...
| On 09 May 2005, Jethro_uk wrote
|
| Hi all,
|
| we have a telephone service from Telewest (Birmingham). The Master
| socket has an extension taken off it with wires 2,3 and 5. This
| feeds 4 phones, all of which work perfectly.
|
| Acquired a s/h Brother Fax-920 at the weekend, and went to plug it
| into the socket which is last in the chain (#4). Doing this caused
| Phone #2 to ring continuously. I swapped 2+5 at socket #4, and the
| ringing went.
|
| Now, however phones #2 and #3 don't ring (#1 and #4 - the fax
| machine - do). Also, when I plug the BT "Relate 1000" back into
| socket #4, then phone #2 rings continously. So either way the
| socket is wired, causes a problem with phone #2, depending on
| which phone is being used.
|
| I have checked the continuity of wire 3 through the circuit, and
| it's OK.
|
| I tried swapping phone #2 out with another, but it didn't ring
| either. As son as the fax machine was unplugged it rang !
|
| Next step is to try at a friends house - see if the fax is kaput,
| but I got it from work, where it worked on Thursday.
|
| If anyone has any ideas, I'd be grateful ...
|
| I think "ringer equivalents" affect the Telewest system the same as BT
| -- maybe not; someone here will know.
|
| Certainly, though, adding the fax has put more than the standard 4 RENs
| on the system; that'd be my guess as to why the ringing is all screwed
| up.
|
| --
| Cheers,
| Harvey

I think "ringer equivalents" affect the Telewest system the same as BT
-- maybe not; someone here will know.

Certainly, though, adding the fax has put more than the standard 4
RENs on the system; that'd be my guess as to why the ringing is all
screwed up.

Yep, look at the bottom of the equipment, should have a "ren" number on
the
bottom, most line can take between 3-5 ren. I suspect that with 4
telephones
and a fax you are prob well over this.

I forgot to say that when I unplugged phone #1 (the one that *did ring),
then #2 and #3 *still* didn't ring.

The REN of the fax is 1

Does the fax have a RJ11 connector, and are you using the original lead?

AFAIK, yes

Continuous ringing is caused by a short between 2 and 3. This can happen
with modem leads, or with a lead that's been damaged.

I swapped the leads for the fax and phone #2, and the problem stayed the
same.



Note that the original lead (with T-bar plug) can be used by the fax to
detect when the line is in use (avoiding call disruption on sending), but
the telephone extension sockets must be downstream, and wired to the T-Bar
socket.

There was no T-bar with the fax. Maybe I should investigate this ....

In message ,
"{daZza}" writes
Harvey Van Sickle wrote:
On 09 May 2005, Jethro_uk wrote

Hi all,

we have a telephone service from Telewest (Birmingham). The Master
socket has an extension taken off it with wires 2,3 and 5. This
feeds 4 phones, all of which work perfectly.


.... ...

Next step is to try at a friends house - see if the fax is kaput,
but I got it from work, where it worked on Thursday.

If anyone has any ideas, I'd be grateful ...

I think "ringer equivalents" affect the Telewest system the same as BT
-- maybe not; someone here will know.

Certainly, though, adding the fax has put more than the standard 4
RENs on the system; that'd be my guess as to why the ringing is all
screwed up.

Yep, look at the bottom of the equipment, should have a "ren" number on the
bottom, most line can take between 3-5 ren. I suspect that with 4 telephones
and a fax you are prob well over this.

"1" is the lowest REN you can have. Most equipment is way below this in
practice, I think you need to investigate the wiring. If you really want
to see of it's REN related, remove the other extensions and try it again
--
geoff

"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

we have a telephone service from Telewest (Birmingham). The Master socket
has an extension taken off it with wires 2,3 and 5. This feeds 4 phones,
all of which work perfectly.

Acquired a s/h Brother Fax-920 at the weekend, and went to plug it into
the socket which is last in the chain (#4). Doing this caused Phone #2 to
ring continuously. I swapped 2+5 at socket #4, and the ringing went.

Now, however phones #2 and #3 don't ring (#1 and #4 - the fax machine -
do). Also, when I plug the BT "Relate 1000" back into socket #4, then
phone #2 rings continously. So either way the socket is wired, causes a
problem with phone #2, depending on which phone is being used.

I have checked the continuity of wire 3 through the circuit, and it's OK.

I tried swapping phone #2 out with another, but it didn't ring either. As
son as the fax machine was unplugged it rang !

Next step is to try at a friends house - see if the fax is kaput, but I
got it from work, where it worked on Thursday.

If anyone has any ideas, I'd be grateful ...

regards


It sounds as though you have wires crossed on terminals 2 & 5 on one or more
sockets, the correct order should be as follows with the dominant colour
being the first.

blue/white on 2
white/blue on 5
orange/white on 3

Jethro_uk wrote:
Does the fax have a RJ11 connector, and are you using the original lead?


AFAIK, yes


Continuous ringing is caused by a short between 2 and 3. This can happen
with modem leads, or with a lead that's been damaged.


I swapped the leads for the fax and phone #2, and the problem stayed the
same.



Did phone #2 ring with that lead?

"raden" wrote in message ...

we have a telephone service from Telewest (Birmingham). The Master
socket has an extension taken off it with wires 2,3 and 5. This
feeds 4 phones, all of which work perfectly.


"1" is the lowest REN you can have. Most equipment is way below this in practice, I think you need to investigate the wiring. If
you really want to see of it's REN related, remove the other extensions and try it again
--
geoff

I would agree.

Even if you should exceed the maximum REN, all that happens is that some or all of the phones won't ring properly or loudly enough.

Continuous ringing is an indication of incorrect wiring, either between the sockets or in the FAX lead.

Remember that many modern phones (and fax machines) do not need a third wire to make them ring - they derive the ringing current
internally. This is what may be causing the confusion about which phone or socket is faulty.

Vic

"Jim" wrote in message
...
Jethro_uk wrote:
Does the fax have a RJ11 connector, and are you using the original lead?


AFAIK, yes


Continuous ringing is caused by a short between 2 and 3. This can
happen
with modem leads, or with a lead that's been damaged.


I swapped the leads for the fax and phone #2, and the problem stayed the
same.



Did phone #2 ring with that lead?

No

On Mon, 09 May 2005 15:46:47 GMT, "Jethro_uk" wrote:


Acquired a s/h Brother Fax-920 at the weekend, and went to plug it into the
socket which is last in the chain (#4). Doing this caused Phone #2 to ring
continuously. I swapped 2+5 at socket #4, and the ringing went.

Now, however phones #2 and #3 don't ring (#1 and #4 - the fax machine - do).
Also, when I plug the BT "Relate 1000" back into socket #4, then phone #2
rings continously. So either way the socket is wired, causes a problem with
phone #2, depending on which phone is being used.

You have almost certainly been given the incorrect lead for the fax
machine. It probably has a BT plug on one end and a smaller RJ11 on
the other. The original lead had an adapter a bit like a double
telephone socket to allow an answering machine to be plugged in and
controlled by the fax machine.

Using the wrong lead can produce the same fault a miswired socket
would.

--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/