Damp found by Surveyor
 

I had a surveyor round the house as part of my Remortgage process. He used his sensor on
all the downstairs internal walls and said that it showed him damp readings in the front
lounge, dining room, and on the hallway walls. I`m on an end terrace, so the hallway is
exposed, ie not joined to another house.. The lounge wall divides the lounge at the front
of the house from the dining room in the centre of the house, with an access door between
the two rooms. (Just for useless info, really) .

What I want to know is; how foolproof are these readings? His gizmo was of the type that
had a series of lights climbing up from green, then amber, to red, in a black box affair,
with two metal prongs he put against the walls.
Also, what sort of cost am I looking at to get this addressed? I know that it will
probably mean all the plaster knocking off to about 2 feet up from the skirting level,
then replacing once its dried out, and finally repainting it all :( .The rooms aren`t
huge, approx 3.5m x 3.3m and 3.7 x 3.1m.

TIA

--
Carolyn

Carolyn wrote:

I had a surveyor round the house as part of my Remortgage process. He
used his sensor on
all the downstairs internal walls and said that it showed him damp
readings in the front
lounge, dining room, and on the hallway walls. I`m on an end terrace,
so the hallway is
exposed, ie not joined to another house.. The lounge wall divides the
lounge at the front
of the house from the dining room in the centre of the house, with an
access door between
the two rooms. (Just for useless info, really) .

What I want to know is; how foolproof are these readings?

theyre not. They use them because of the outcome of a court case, not
because theyre diagnostic. Quite simply they detect damp, condensation,
conductive building matrials etc. Oh, and are designed to measure
moisture in wood, not other materials.



His gizmo was of the type that
had a series of lights climbing up from green, then amber, to red, in
a black box affair,
with two metal prongs he put against the walls.

dampmeter, =A39 from any hardware outlet. What they actually measure is
electrical resistance.


Also, what sort of cost am I looking at to get this addressed?

deends if theres a problem or not, and if so what it is.

I know that it will
probably mean all the plaster knocking off to about 2 feet up from
the skirting level,
then replacing once its dried out, and finally repainting it all :(
..

Thats one thing it wont involve. At least not if you identify the cause
and rectify it.


The rooms aren`t
huge, approx 3.5m x 3.3m and 3.7 x 3.1m.


OK, start he what signs of dampness are present? Are there any?


NT

ps these folks regularly field this one:
http://www.periodproperty.co.uk/cgi-...sing/forum2.pl

wrote in message
oups.com...
Carolyn wrote:

I had a surveyor round the house as part of my Remortgage process. He
used his sensor on
all the downstairs internal walls and said that it showed him damp
readings in the front
lounge, dining room, and on the hallway walls. I`m on an end terrace,
so the hallway is
exposed, ie not joined to another house.. The lounge wall divides the
lounge at the front
of the house from the dining room in the centre of the house, with an
access door between
the two rooms. (Just for useless info, really) .

What I want to know is; how foolproof are these readings?

theyre not. They use them because of the outcome of a court case, not
because theyre diagnostic. Quite simply they detect damp, condensation,
conductive building matrials etc. Oh, and are designed to measure
moisture in wood, not other materials.


I have a Protimeter in a drawer somewhere, and they don't measure moisture
in wood very well either. Timber merchants use a version which allows you
to
hammer the prongs an inch or so into the wood where you might just get an
accurate reading.
Putting them on your skin usually registers obscene amounts of moisture


--
I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
It has removed 4413 spam emails to date.
Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
Try www.SPAMfighter.com for free now!

Carolyn wrote:
I had a surveyor round the house as part of my Remortgage process. He used his sensor ...
What I want to know is; how foolproof are these readings?

About as much use as waving a crystal and chanting an incantation.

His gizmo was of the type that had a series of lights climbing up
from green, then amber, to red, in a black box affair, with two metal
prongs he put against the walls.

Hm, did he make it himself from a traffic light simulator circuit and
some parts from Maplins,

Also, what sort of cost am I looking at to get this addressed? I know that it will
probably mean all the plaster knocking off to about 2 feet up from the skirting level,
then replacing once its dried out, and finally repainting it all :(

Which, if you did have damp, would just mean the damp would come back a
few months later.

If you've lived in the house for a while you should know if you've got
damp or not. If it doesn't smell damp and you aren't getting
mould/mildew/rot then it probably isn't damp, and Mr Surveyor won't be
getting his thank-you bottle of whisky from whichever damp proofing
company he professionally and impartially suggests.

If you do have damp then it will be -

- rising damp, which some people say doesn't exist
- penetrating damp, which usually means raised soil/paving levels
bridging the damp proof course, or water splashing above the DPC
- condensation, which means open the windows, extractor fans in the
kitchen/bathroom, and heat the place.

Owain

Owain
wrote:
Carolyn wrote:
I had a surveyor round the house as part of my Remortgage process.
He used his sensor ... What I want to know is; how foolproof are
these readings?

About as much use as waving a crystal and chanting an incantation.

His gizmo was of the type that had a series of lights climbing up
from green, then amber, to red, in a black box affair, with two
metal prongs he put against the walls.

Hm, did he make it himself from a traffic light simulator circuit and
some parts from Maplins,

Also, what sort of cost am I looking at to get this addressed? I
know that it will probably mean all the plaster knocking off to
about 2 feet up from the skirting level, then replacing once its
dried out, and finally repainting it all :(

Which, if you did have damp, would just mean the damp would come back
a few months later.

If you've lived in the house for a while you should know if you've got
damp or not. If it doesn't smell damp and you aren't getting
mould/mildew/rot then it probably isn't damp, and Mr Surveyor won't be
getting his thank-you bottle of whisky from whichever damp proofing
company he professionally and impartially suggests.

If you do have damp then it will be -

- rising damp, which some people say doesn't exist
- penetrating damp, which usually means raised soil/paving levels
bridging the damp proof course, or water splashing above the DPC
- condensation, which means open the windows, extractor fans in the
kitchen/bathroom, and heat the place.

Owain

Thanks for all your comments; made me feel a little better about the whole thing.

The surveyor *did* say I should get someone to look at it professionally and that
they shouldn`t charge me, just for giving their opinion on it...hmm...
I`ve certainly never smelt any damp in the house, and their definitely isn`t any water
or condensation present in the areas he looked at, its a living space, not a water park!
The house is fronted directly by a street and is level with external paving too, so I
can`t see what the issue is (or not, as the case may be).

I just hope the new Mortgage Lenders won`t take this up as an action point if its
mentioned
in his report?

--
Carolyn
CBR400RR Red/White/Purple
Put the dog out to reply

"Carolyn" wrote in message
...

I had a surveyor round the house as part of my Remortgage process. He used
his sensor on
all the downstairs internal walls and said that it showed him damp
readings in the front
lounge, dining room, and on the hallway walls.

My comment would be if he is a proper surveyor (member of RICS) he should
know this instrument is not supposed to be used like this, and if not, ask
for a proper surveyor to come and do the job.

Excellent advice - if you have not noticed it and there is no damage then
why get it treated. Don't try to "seal" it in because it will only come out
somewhere else causing more problems.
"Owain" wrote in message
...
Carolyn wrote:
I had a surveyor round the house as part of my Remortgage process. He
used his sensor ...
What I want to know is; how foolproof are these readings?

About as much use as waving a crystal and chanting an incantation.

His gizmo was of the type that had a series of lights climbing up
from green, then amber, to red, in a black box affair, with two metal
prongs he put against the walls.

Hm, did he make it himself from a traffic light simulator circuit and some
parts from Maplins,

Also, what sort of cost am I looking at to get this addressed? I know
that it will
probably mean all the plaster knocking off to about 2 feet up from the
skirting level, then replacing once its dried out, and finally repainting
it all :(

Which, if you did have damp, would just mean the damp would come back a
few months later.

If you've lived in the house for a while you should know if you've got
damp or not. If it doesn't smell damp and you aren't getting
mould/mildew/rot then it probably isn't damp, and Mr Surveyor won't be
getting his thank-you bottle of whisky from whichever damp proofing
company he professionally and impartially suggests.

If you do have damp then it will be -

- rising damp, which some people say doesn't exist
- penetrating damp, which usually means raised soil/paving levels bridging
the damp proof course, or water splashing above the DPC
- condensation, which means open the windows, extractor fans in the
kitchen/bathroom, and heat the place.

Owain

"Carolyn" wrote in message
...
Thanks for all your comments; made me feel a little better about the whole
thing.

I just hope the new Mortgage Lenders won`t take this up as an action point
if its
mentioned in his report?

There's far more mortgage lenders than the market needs. Just remind them
of this if they get awkward.

Carolyn wrote:

Thanks for all your comments; made me feel a little better about the
whole thing.

The surveyor *did* say I should get someone to look at it
professionally

that is primarily a means to avoid any comeback. 'Well we did say you
should have the electrics tested, damp tested, drains cctv'ed, roof
rebuilt, and house upgrading to all modern standards, so you cant blame
us if you didnt do that.'


and that
they shouldn`t charge me, just for giving their opinion on
it...hmm...

then youve been badly advised. Free damp surveys are only available
from companies looking to flog you overpriced damp treatments, and are
a well known rip off business sector.

If you did genuinely need advice on damp, free surveys should be
avoided, full stop.


I`ve certainly never smelt any damp in the house, and their
definitely isn`t any water
or condensation present in the areas he looked at, its a living
space, not a water park!

any disintegrating plaster? black mould? Decaying woodwork? Visible
mould growths? Floor that shakes? If none of these, not much likelihood
of a damp problem.


The house is fronted directly by a street and is level with external
paving too, so I
can`t see what the issue is (or not, as the case may be).

External ground should be 6" below internal floor level. In practice
its often less than this, but as long as its lower than internal floor,
things should be fine. If its higher, problems are possible.


I just hope the new Mortgage Lenders won`t take this up as an action
point if its
mentioned in his report?

they probably will if youre borrowing a high percentage of value. If
so, couple more options:

- a qualified persons statement that in fact there is no evidence of
damp, and that the dampmeter method of assessment is well known to be
flawed

- a word with the surveyor, pointing out the facts and saying you
intend to get core samples analysed if he does not reassess his survey.
If he thinks youre for real he may wish to re-evaluate the situation
with a bit more care to avoid embarrassment or comeback.

If going down this path I might be tempted to first innocently ask if
theres any damp survey co he would recommend first: if he does, he has
made room for doubt in the interpretation of his intentions, and might
be a little keener to satisfy your request once he realises you know
exactly what youre doing. If the survey has already gone to the
mortgage co, this may be harder to achieve.


NT

Mike
wrote:
"Carolyn" wrote in message
...

I had a surveyor round the house as part of my Remortgage process.
He used his sensor on all the downstairs internal walls and said
that it showed him damp readings in the front lounge, dining room,
and on the hallway walls.

My comment would be if he is a proper surveyor (member of RICS) he
should know this instrument is not supposed to be used like this, and
if not, ask for a proper surveyor to come and do the job.

Why is the instrument not supposed to be used like this?
He was from Countrywide Surveyors, thats all I know, so I assumed
he was a Chartered Surveyor with his luminous jacket, ladders, big torch...

thanks for all the comments so far; making interesting reading!

--
Carolyn

In article ,
"Carolyn" writes:
Why is the instrument not supposed to be used like this?
He was from Countrywide Surveyors, thats all I know, so I assumed
he was a Chartered Surveyor with his luminous jacket, ladders, big torch...

I've got a luminous jacket, ladders, and a big torch...

--
Andrew Gabriel

Carolyn wrote:
Mike
wrote:

"Carolyn" wrote in message
...

I had a surveyor round the house as part of my Remortgage process.
He used his sensor on all the downstairs internal walls and said
that it showed him damp readings in the front lounge, dining room,
and on the hallway walls.

My comment would be if he is a proper surveyor (member of RICS) he
should know this instrument is not supposed to be used like this, and
if not, ask for a proper surveyor to come and do the job.


Why is the instrument not supposed to be used like this?
He was from Countrywide Surveyors, thats all I know, so I assumed
he was a Chartered Surveyor with his luminous jacket, ladders, big torch...

thanks for all the comments so far; making interesting reading!

Have a look at this, which answers a lot of your questions:
http://www.pdoyle.net/Rising_Damp.html. The site belongs to an
independent Certificated Surveyor in Remedial Treatment (CSRT) who is a
member of the BWDPA (http://www.bwpda.co.uk/). (I know nothing about
the bloke in question other than having found his website, by the way).

Contrary to what you've been advised by your building society surveyor,
CSRTs are the guys who you should consult; apart from anything else,
because their advice is *NOT* free; you pay for it because they have no
vested interest in "finding" rising damp in your property. If you end
up being compelled by your lender to undertake lots of remedial work
before they'll let you remortgage, I suggest it would be well-worth
engaging a CSRT, who may well be able to provide a report which would
completely refute the original 'findings'.

Also you might want to look at this site, from Jeff Howell who is well
known for his radical view that 'rising damp' doesn't exist anywhere at
all except in the minds of sensor-wielding surveyors...
http://ask-jeff.co.uk/building-rising-damp.htm

Good luck
David

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
"Carolyn" writes:

Why is the instrument not supposed to be used like this?
He was from Countrywide Surveyors, thats all I know, so I assumed
he was a Chartered Surveyor with his luminous jacket, ladders, big torch...


I've got a luminous jacket, ladders, and a big torch...

I've just got a ladder and an ordinary torch - so I'm only a Surveyor...
;-)

Hi Lobster
Also you might want to look at this site, from Jeff Howell who is well
known for his radical view that 'rising damp' doesn't exist anywhere at
all except in the minds of sensor-wielding surveyors...
http://ask-jeff.co.uk/building-rising-damp.htm


Terrific site, thanks for the link! Wish I'd read that 20 years ago!

Dave

In message , Carolyn
writes
Mike
wrote:
"Carolyn" wrote in message
...

I had a surveyor round the house as part of my Remortgage process.
He used his sensor on all the downstairs internal walls and said
that it showed him damp readings in the front lounge, dining room,
and on the hallway walls.

My comment would be if he is a proper surveyor (member of RICS) he
should know this instrument is not supposed to be used like this, and
if not, ask for a proper surveyor to come and do the job.

Why is the instrument not supposed to be used like this?
He was from Countrywide Surveyors, thats all I know,

Say No More!!! I think they have to do 100 surveys a day, and write
them up before they go to bed.

so I assumed
he was a Chartered Surveyor with his luminous jacket, ladders, big torch...

thanks for all the comments so far; making interesting reading!


--
Richard Faulkner

Lobster
wrote:
Carolyn wrote:
Mike
wrote:

"Carolyn" wrote in message
...

I had a surveyor round the house as part of my Remortgage process.
He used his sensor on all the downstairs internal walls and said
that it showed him damp readings in the front lounge, dining room,
and on the hallway walls.

My comment would be if he is a proper surveyor (member of RICS) he
should know this instrument is not supposed to be used like this,
and if not, ask for a proper surveyor to come and do the job.


Why is the instrument not supposed to be used like this?
He was from Countrywide Surveyors, thats all I know, so I assumed
he was a Chartered Surveyor with his luminous jacket, ladders, big
torch... thanks for all the comments so far; making interesting reading!

Have a look at this, which answers a lot of your questions:
http://www.pdoyle.net/Rising_Damp.html. The site belongs to an
independent Certificated Surveyor in Remedial Treatment (CSRT) who is
a member of the BWDPA (http://www.bwpda.co.uk/). (I know nothing
about the bloke in question other than having found his website, by
the way).
Contrary to what you've been advised by your building society
surveyor, CSRTs are the guys who you should consult; apart from
anything else, because their advice is *NOT* free; you pay for it
because they have no vested interest in "finding" rising damp in your
property. If you end up being compelled by your lender to undertake
lots of remedial work before they'll let you remortgage, I suggest it
would be well-worth engaging a CSRT, who may well be able to provide
a report which would completely refute the original 'findings'.

Also you might want to look at this site, from Jeff Howell who is well
known for his radical view that 'rising damp' doesn't exist anywhere
at all except in the minds of sensor-wielding surveyors...
http://ask-jeff.co.uk/building-rising-damp.htm

Good luck
David

Those two links are really useful! Makes things a lot clearer now, and I
certainly feel confident at discussing this issue with the `surveyor`.I just might
ask him `innocently`, as I have been advised, where I might find a damp survey
company, and see what he says... Be interesting to see how he responds.

many thanks, all

--
Carolyn

Our mortgage company asked for a survey to be performed by a BWPDA member.
From memory the survey cost us about £80 but was knocked off the bill if we
had the works done by them.

No help in your situation, but it enabled us to negotiate with the house
vendors.

Tim


"Lobster" wrote in message
...
Carolyn wrote:
Mike
wrote:

"Carolyn" wrote in message
...

I had a surveyor round the house as part of my Remortgage process.
He used his sensor on all the downstairs internal walls and said
that it showed him damp readings in the front lounge, dining room,
and on the hallway walls.

My comment would be if he is a proper surveyor (member of RICS) he
should know this instrument is not supposed to be used like this, and
if not, ask for a proper surveyor to come and do the job.


Why is the instrument not supposed to be used like this?
He was from Countrywide Surveyors, thats all I know, so I assumed
he was a Chartered Surveyor with his luminous jacket, ladders, big
torch...

thanks for all the comments so far; making interesting reading!

Have a look at this, which answers a lot of your questions:
http://www.pdoyle.net/Rising_Damp.html. The site belongs to an
independent Certificated Surveyor in Remedial Treatment (CSRT) who is a
member of the BWDPA (http://www.bwpda.co.uk/). (I know nothing about the
bloke in question other than having found his website, by the way).

Contrary to what you've been advised by your building society surveyor,
CSRTs are the guys who you should consult; apart from anything else,
because their advice is *NOT* free; you pay for it because they have no
vested interest in "finding" rising damp in your property. If you end up
being compelled by your lender to undertake lots of remedial work before
they'll let you remortgage, I suggest it would be well-worth engaging a
CSRT, who may well be able to provide a report which would completely
refute the original 'findings'.

Also you might want to look at this site, from Jeff Howell who is well
known for his radical view that 'rising damp' doesn't exist anywhere at
all except in the minds of sensor-wielding surveyors...
http://ask-jeff.co.uk/building-rising-damp.htm

Good luck
David

On Sat, 7 May 2005 21:52:21 +0000 (UTC), a particular chimpanzee named
"Carolyn" randomly hit the
keyboard and produced:

The surveyor *did* say I should get someone to look at it professionally and that
they shouldn`t charge me, just for giving their opinion on it...hmm...

No one works for free. Anyone who gives you their 'opinion' without
payment works for a damp-proofing company and is doing it on the
chance you give them vast amounts of money to fix your damp 'problem'.
If you want an impartial opinion you'll have to pay an independent
surveyor for it.
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed?"