Just reading through some old threads on RSJ's and supporting walls.
What would be the correct way to knock down non load bearing walls?
Say for instance you wanted to make a sort of open plan kitchen/diner but
you still wanted them to be seperate rooms. To do this you leave say three
feet of one side of the wall, three feet the other and say 4 courses of
bricks at the top. Would you still need an rsj for that or would a length of
4x4 be adaquate, the span would cover about 6 feet so not a huge amount of
weight on it.
Any ideas?
Pete

"PeteZahut" wrote in message
. uk...
Just reading through some old threads on RSJ's and supporting walls.
What would be the correct way to knock down non load bearing walls?
Say for instance you wanted to make a sort of open plan kitchen/diner but
you still wanted them to be seperate rooms. To do this you leave say three
feet of one side of the wall, three feet the other and say 4 courses of
bricks at the top. Would you still need an rsj for that or would a length
of
4x4 be adaquate, the span would cover about 6 feet so not a huge amount of
weight on it.
Any ideas?
Pete

(1) I am not an engineer.

(2) Wouldn't it be easier to completely remove the non-loadbearing wall then
construct a stud wall of the design you require? No problems with supporting
a few courses of bricks near the ceiling then.

(3) I presume you would need some sort of lintel if you decided you wanted
to keep the bricks. Sounds like a lot of aggravation though.

(4) Are you absolutely SURE this wall isn't load bearing? Builders often
prefer stud walls for non load bearing applications .

HTH
Dave R

PeteZahut was thinking very hard :
Just reading through some old threads on RSJ's and supporting walls.
What would be the correct way to knock down non load bearing walls?
Say for instance you wanted to make a sort of open plan kitchen/diner but you
still wanted them to be seperate rooms. To do this you leave say three feet
of one side of the wall, three feet the other and say 4 courses of bricks at
the top. Would you still need an rsj for that or would a length of 4x4 be
adaquate, the span would cover about 6 feet so not a huge amount of weight on
it.
Any ideas?

Bricks would seem to idicate that it might well be a supporting wall.
Builders tended to use much lighter materials for none supporting
walls, such as stud/platerboard, or light weight blocks, or plaster
laiths.

If you are suggesting putting bricks in as a partial divider, then why
not use a stud wall construction, with perhaps a light weight arch over
the top?

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.org

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
...
PeteZahut was thinking very hard :
Just reading through some old threads on RSJ's and supporting walls.
What would be the correct way to knock down non load bearing walls?
Say for instance you wanted to make a sort of open plan kitchen/diner but
you still wanted them to be seperate rooms. To do this you leave say
three feet of one side of the wall, three feet the other and say 4
courses of bricks at the top. Would you still need an rsj for that or
would a length of 4x4 be adaquate, the span would cover about 6 feet so
not a huge amount of weight on it.
Any ideas?

Bricks would seem to idicate that it might well be a supporting wall.
Builders tended to use much lighter materials for none supporting walls,
such as stud/platerboard, or light weight blocks, or plaster laiths.

I'm pretty much certain it's not a supporting wall, a friend over the road
says its not too. The joists above run the same direction as the wall, there
is no wall above it either. All the walls upstairs of made from a hollow
lightweight breeze block type brick.
The house was built in the 50's.
I'm just toying with the idea now but dont fancy having to make a stud
partition for two reasons.
One=the bricks are already there, easy enough to whack out a course of
bricks, shore up the remaining bricks then take the rest of the wall down.
Two=the ceilings in the two rooms are artexed (yeh I know we all hate artex)
but with two different designs so dont really want to be patching these up.
Ive seen some houses with 4x4 bridging some spans so is that an acceptable
alternative?
Pete
Pete

PeteZahut wrote:
One=the bricks are already there, easy enough to whack out a course of
bricks, shore up the remaining bricks then take the rest of the wall down.

It's going to be far more hassle to shore up the bricks! Have you done
it before?

Two=the ceilings in the two rooms are artexed (yeh I know we all hate artex)
but with two different designs so dont really want to be patching these up.

Making a stud partition is really pretty easy; and you'd just build in a
bit which spans the gap in the same way you're envisaging for your
shored-up bricks.

David

"Lobster" wrote in message
...
PeteZahut wrote:
One=the bricks are already there, easy enough to whack out a course of
bricks, shore up the remaining bricks then take the rest of the wall
down.

It's going to be far more hassle to shore up the bricks! Have you done
it before?


Not exactly but I have moved a doorway in a wall, admittedly its not as wide
but surely its done on the same principle.
I carefully took one row of bricks out, 12inches wider than the door frame
to be put it, inserted an old concrete lintel (could have used 4x4?), made
sure that was all secure and resting six inches either side of the frame,
then removed the bricks for the new doorway.
Wasnt that hard really.
Hardest part was taking out the first row of bricks carefully without moving
the ones above. I done it slowly rather than attack it with a sledgehammer


Two=the ceilings in the two rooms are artexed (yeh I know we all hate
artex) but with two different designs so dont really want to be patching
these up.

Making a stud partition is really pretty easy; and you'd just build in a
bit which spans the gap in the same way you're envisaging for your
shored-up bricks.

Yeh I know but if I do it that way, its just extra work on top, there's the
making the studwork, patching up of the two ceilings, plastering the new
stud wall one side, the kitchen is tiled so would have to try and find
matching tiles. Seems like a lot of extra work when I could easily just
carefully remove the unwanted bricks.
Pete

"PeteZahut" wrote in message
k...

"Lobster" wrote in message
...
PeteZahut wrote:
One=the bricks are already there, easy enough to whack out a course of
bricks, shore up the remaining bricks then take the rest of the wall
down.

It's going to be far more hassle to shore up the bricks! Have you done
it before?


Not exactly but I have moved a doorway in a wall, admittedly its not as
wide
but surely its done on the same principle.
I carefully took one row of bricks out, 12inches wider than the door frame
to be put it, inserted an old concrete lintel (could have used 4x4?), made
sure that was all secure and resting six inches either side of the frame,
then removed the bricks for the new doorway.
Wasnt that hard really.
Hardest part was taking out the first row of bricks carefully without
moving
the ones above. I done it slowly rather than attack it with a sledgehammer


Two=the ceilings in the two rooms are artexed (yeh I know we all hate
artex) but with two different designs so dont really want to be
patching
these up.

Making a stud partition is really pretty easy; and you'd just build in a
bit which spans the gap in the same way you're envisaging for your
shored-up bricks.

Yeh I know but if I do it that way, its just extra work on top, there's
the
making the studwork, patching up of the two ceilings, plastering the new
stud wall one side, the kitchen is tiled so would have to try and find
matching tiles. Seems like a lot of extra work when I could easily just
carefully remove the unwanted bricks.
Pete



Bricks don't hold themselves up, and they are far heavier than a hollow
insulated timber stud. If the wall is brick construction all along the
whole wall, and even if the rest of the building around it looks as though
it isn't, always check that it isn't supporting or bracing something. The
wall might be in brick to stop the other two walls on either end from
bending in their middles, so please don't assume. Or it could actually be
there to reduce fire hazard to the rest of the property, so take all these
facts and situations in to consideration as well.

Far easier to remove the heavy bricks completely and make good with a proper
light weight timber stud. You should find that a proper stud wall will
cover more of what the brick wall covers now, so you shouldn't have any
major fiddling with decoration after it's done. Probably nothing a good
squirt of Decorators Caulk wouldn't fill.

But, Please!!!! Make sure you understand the implications of a fire break
wall or door between a kitchen and the rest of the house, AND, make sure the
wall isn't, and I mean is not, supporting or bracing other parts of the
property.

BigWallop wrote:
"PeteZahut" wrote in message
k...

"Lobster" wrote in message
...
PeteZahut wrote:
One=the bricks are already there, easy enough to whack out a
course of
bricks, shore up the remaining bricks then take the rest of the
wall
down.

It's going to be far more hassle to shore up the bricks! Have
you done
it before?


Not exactly but I have moved a doorway in a wall, admittedly its
not as
wide
but surely its done on the same principle.
I carefully took one row of bricks out, 12inches wider than the
door frame
to be put it, inserted an old concrete lintel (could have used
4x4?), made
sure that was all secure and resting six inches either side of the
frame,
then removed the bricks for the new doorway.
Wasnt that hard really.
Hardest part was taking out the first row of bricks carefully
without
moving
the ones above. I done it slowly rather than attack it with a
sledgehammer


Two=the ceilings in the two rooms are artexed (yeh I know we all
hate
artex) but with two different designs so dont really want to be
patching
these up.

Making a stud partition is really pretty easy; and you'd just
build in a
bit which spans the gap in the same way you're envisaging for
your
shored-up bricks.

Yeh I know but if I do it that way, its just extra work on top,
there's
the
making the studwork, patching up of the two ceilings, plastering
the new
stud wall one side, the kitchen is tiled so would have to try and
find
matching tiles. Seems like a lot of extra work when I could easily
just
carefully remove the unwanted bricks.
Pete



Bricks don't hold themselves up, and they are far heavier than a
hollow
insulated timber stud. If the wall is brick construction all along
the
whole wall, and even if the rest of the building around it looks as
though
it isn't, always check that it isn't supporting or bracing something.
The
wall might be in brick to stop the other two walls on either end from
bending in their middles, so please don't assume. Or it could
actually be
there to reduce fire hazard to the rest of the property, so take all
these
facts and situations in to consideration as well.

Far easier to remove the heavy bricks completely and make good with a
proper
light weight timber stud. You should find that a proper stud wall
will
cover more of what the brick wall covers now, so you shouldn't have
any
major fiddling with decoration after it's done. Probably nothing a
good
squirt of Decorators Caulk wouldn't fill.

But, Please!!!! Make sure you understand the implications of a fire
break
wall or door between a kitchen and the rest of the house, AND, make
sure the
wall isn't, and I mean is not, supporting or bracing other parts of
the
property.

Bricks can hold themselves up, but usually only if there is enough
weight above them to 'key' them together. From what you have you may
find that because there is no weight above these bricks that when you
start shoring them up they will get loose and fall down anyway. I've
taken out 4x4 that have suppouted single brick load bearing walls -
possibly use C24 grade wood rather than the usual C16 - you can tell
the difference since it will feel twice as heavy. To leave bricks in
place use a local (not HSS etc.) to rent a couple of acrows and some
strong-boys. End-bearings need to be 150 mm or greater. It is possible
to fit 4' ft French doors etc. in a 9" wall (requiring the removal of 5
foot width of brick) without supports. I've heard of 8 ft sections
being removed without support!