Motorised valves - good makes?
 

I am looking at replacing my Danfoss 3 way motorised valve as part of a
central heating re-fit.
I have changed the actuator a few times over the years, so I am now looking
to find a type that is known to be very reliable.
So far, I cannot find much independent info to help me decide on a make.
Drayton seem to make good TRVs, so are their motorised valves as good? or
maybe Myson or Honeywell, their specifications look good also. Any ideas.

Dave

Motorised valves - good makes?
 

"logized" wrote in message
...
I am looking at replacing my Danfoss 3 way motorised valve as part of a
central heating re-fit.
I have changed the actuator a few times over the years, so I am now
looking
to find a type that is known to be very reliable.
So far, I cannot find much independent info to help me decide on a make.
Drayton seem to make good TRVs, so are their motorised valves as good? or
maybe Myson or Honeywell, their specifications look good also. Any ideas.

Drayton and Honeywell are good.

Motorised valves - good makes?
 

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
logized wrote:

I am looking at replacing my Danfoss 3 way motorised valve as part of
a central heating re-fit.
I have changed the actuator a few times over the years, so I am now
looking to find a type that is known to be very reliable.
So far, I cannot find much independent info to help me decide on a
make. Drayton seem to make good TRVs, so are their motorised valves
as good? or maybe Myson or Honeywell, their specifications look good
also. Any ideas.

Dave

3-port mid-position valves have an inherent weakness in that they rely on
microswitches in the actuator to control both the valve and external parts
of the overall system - inluding switching boiler and pump on in CH-only
mode. It only needs a bit of wear on the cams which operate the
microswitches for the whole system to fail. Some makes may be marginally
better than others - but there ain't a lot in it.

The only satisfactory cure is to convert from a Y-Plan to an S-Plan by
throwing away the 3-port valve and replacing it with two 2-port valves. This
removes a major single point of failure from the system. It's not too
difficult to do, provided you can get at the pipe runs immediately after the
3-port valve, inserting a 2-port valve in each leg, and replacing the 3-port
valve with an ordinary tee. If your system is vented, with the vent pipe
connected near the HW cylinder, the HW zone valve needs to be inserted close
to the cylinder, *after* the vent pipe connection in order to ensure that
there is always a clear path from boiler to vent, with no valves in the way.
If your boiler has a pump over-run stat, you'll also need a by-pass
circuit - to give the water somewhere to go when the pump is running with
both valves closed. An automatic by-pass valve between flow and return,
connected after the pump but before the zone valves, is best.

--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
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Motorised valves - good makes?
 

"Set Square" wrote in
:


The only satisfactory cure is to convert from a Y-Plan to an S-Plan by
throwing away the 3-port valve and replacing it with two 2-port
valves. This removes a major single point of failure from the system.
It's not too difficult to do, provided you can get at the pipe runs
immediately after the 3-port valve, inserting a 2-port valve in each
leg, and replacing the 3-port valve with an ordinary tee. If your
system is vented, with the vent pipe connected near the HW cylinder,
the HW zone valve needs to be inserted close to the cylinder, *after*
the vent pipe connection in order to ensure that there is always a
clear path from boiler to vent, with no valves in the way. If your
boiler has a pump over-run stat, you'll also need a by-pass circuit -
to give the water somewhere to go when the pump is running with both
valves closed. An automatic by-pass valve between flow and return,
connected after the pump but before the zone valves, is best.

I'm proposing to do just that SS, but could you suggest a good valve - in
particular I'm looking for minimum constriction (my existing 3port valve
has diddy holes for the coolant (heatant?)

mike

Motorised valves - good makes?
 

"Set Square" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
logized wrote:

I am looking at replacing my Danfoss 3 way motorised valve as part of
a central heating re-fit.
I have changed the actuator a few times over the years, so I am now
looking to find a type that is known to be very reliable.
So far, I cannot find much independent info to help me decide on a
make. Drayton seem to make good TRVs, so are their motorised valves
as good? or maybe Myson or Honeywell, their specifications look good
also. Any ideas.

Dave

3-port mid-position valves have an inherent weakness in that they rely on
microswitches in the actuator to control both the valve and external parts
of the overall system - inluding switching boiler and pump on in CH-only
mode. It only needs a bit of wear on the cams which operate the
microswitches for the whole system to fail. Some makes may be marginally
better than others - but there ain't a lot in it.

The only satisfactory cure is to convert from a Y-Plan to an S-Plan by
throwing away the 3-port valve and replacing it with two 2-port valves.

The best way is to fit a 3-port "diverter" valve to give a priority system.
A diverter is similar to a 2-port valve with just another port. The boiler
will need to be on full temperature. A simple clamp-on pipe stat on the flow
can be fitted to keep the CH flow temperature down if that is a problem.
Better still, if the cylinder is old replace it with a quick recovery
cylinder to reduce time heating the cylinder. Travis Perkins do the Telford
Typhoon very reasonably. Doing this will transform the system for little
outlay.

Motorised valves - good makes?
 

"mike ring" wrote in message
52.50...
I'm proposing to do just that SS, but could you suggest a good valve - in
particular I'm looking for minimum constriction (my existing 3port valve
has diddy holes for the coolant (heatant?)


I'd recommend the Siemens ones which Grahams stock at quite good prices.

Motorised valves - good makes?
 

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
mike ring wrote:

"Set Square" wrote in
:


The only satisfactory cure is to convert from a Y-Plan to an S-Plan
by throwing away the 3-port valve and replacing it with two 2-port
valves.

I'm proposing to do just that SS, but could you suggest a good valve
- in particular I'm looking for minimum constriction (my existing
3port valve has diddy holes for the coolant (heatant?)


I have limited direct experience of a wide range of makes from my DIY
perspective. The professionals are likely to be able to advise better.

Honeywell seems to have a reasonable reputation - so something from the
V4043 range should do the job. If you're worried about flow restriction, you
could use 28mm
valves - with adapters either side to connect to your 22mm pipework.
However, a very short length of restriction is not usually too much of a
problem.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

Motorised valves - good makes?
 

The only satisfactory cure is to convert from a Y-Plan to an S-Plan by
throwing away the 3-port valve and replacing it with two 2-port valves.
This
removes a major single point of failure from the system. It's not too
difficult to do, provided you can get at the pipe runs immediately after
the
3-port valve, inserting a 2-port valve in each leg, and replacing the
3-port
valve with an ordinary tee. If your system is vented, with the vent pipe
connected near the HW cylinder, the HW zone valve needs to be inserted
close
to the cylinder, *after* the vent pipe connection in order to ensure that
there is always a clear path from boiler to vent, with no valves in the
way.
If your boiler has a pump over-run stat, you'll also need a by-pass
circuit - to give the water somewhere to go when the pump is running with
both valves closed. An automatic by-pass valve between flow and return,
connected after the pump but before the zone valves, is best.

--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

Thanks for your suggestion. I remember considering S-Plan when I originally
installed the system about 20 years ago. At that time I decided on Y-Plan
due to it being cheaper and easier to install.
Now, I realise that the extra cost could be worthwhile and I like the way
that they should go either full on or off, as some of the problems I had
with Y-plan were due to the valve sometimes sticking in the wrong position
etc.
I can modify the pipework as the vent pipe is fitted next to the boiler and
I can add a by-pass valve without problem.

Thanks,
Dave

Motorised valves - good makes?
 

The best way is to fit a 3-port "diverter" valve to give a priority
system.
A diverter is similar to a 2-port valve with just another port. The boiler
will need to be on full temperature. A simple clamp-on pipe stat on the
flow
can be fitted to keep the CH flow temperature down if that is a problem.
Better still, if the cylinder is old replace it with a quick recovery
cylinder to reduce time heating the cylinder. Travis Perkins do the
Telford
Typhoon very reasonably. Doing this will transform the system for little
outlay.

IMM,
I prefer to have valves that allow heating water and rads simultaneously if
needed, so I would not be happy to use the "diverter" W-Plan option.
Looks like it is going out of favour now also,as I did not see it as an
option from some manufacturers and found an article recommending them to be
replaced where found see -
http://www.gasman.fsbusiness.co.uk/f...ed_systems.htm

Thanks for your suggestion on quick recovery cylinder - I want to get one,
but so far only found the "Superduty" by Albion.
And thanks for your recommendation of good valve makes.

Dave

Motorised valves - good makes?
 

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
raden wrote:

In message , Set Square
writes

3-port mid-position valves have an inherent weakness in that they
rely on microswitches in the actuator to control both the valve and
external parts of the overall system - inluding switching boiler and
pump on in CH-only mode.


I don't think I've ever come across cam wear in an actuator head in
the (high) hundreds which I've repaired in the past

The most common problem is synchron motor failure - they all use more
or less the same motor (although there were some better quality ones
in the past

The second most common fault is contacts burning on the microswitches
(again in the past some actuator heads used larger microswitches)

The other common problem is weak return springs


I bow to your superior experience in dealing with hundreds of the things.
The few I've taken to bits have had rather wobbly cam plates (as opposed to
worn cam surfaces per se - perhaps my description could have been better).
However, the effect is the same - if the switch doesn't operate for whatever
reason - or if the motor fails - the HW/CH system doesn't work properly.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

Motorised valves - good makes?
 

In message , Set Square
writes
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
logized wrote:

I am looking at replacing my Danfoss 3 way motorised valve as part of
a central heating re-fit.
I have changed the actuator a few times over the years, so I am now
looking to find a type that is known to be very reliable.
So far, I cannot find much independent info to help me decide on a
make. Drayton seem to make good TRVs, so are their motorised valves
as good? or maybe Myson or Honeywell, their specifications look good
also. Any ideas.

Dave

3-port mid-position valves have an inherent weakness in that they rely on
microswitches in the actuator to control both the valve and external parts
of the overall system - inluding switching boiler and pump on in CH-only
mode. It only needs a bit of wear on the cams which operate the
microswitches for the whole system to fail. Some makes may be marginally
better than others - but there ain't a lot in it.

I don't think I've ever come across cam wear in an actuator head in the
(high) hundreds which I've repaired in the past

The most common problem is synchron motor failure - they all use more or
less the same motor (although there were some better quality ones in the
past

The second most common fault is contacts burning on the microswitches
(again in the past some actuator heads used larger microswitches)

The other common problem is weak return springs
--
geoff

Motorised valves - good makes?
 

I'm proposing to do just that SS, but could you suggest a good valve - in
particular I'm looking for minimum constriction (my existing 3port valve
has diddy holes for the coolant (heatant?)

I'm using the Myson Powerextra 2 port (I have four of them so far, with more
to follow). They look well made and have a neon to tell you when they are
powered, which is good for diagnosis.

Christian.

Motorised valves - good makes?
 

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , logized
writes


The best way is to fit a 3-port "diverter" valve to give a priority
system.
A diverter is similar to a 2-port valve with just another port. The
boiler
will need to be on full temperature. A simple clamp-on pipe stat on the
flow
can be fitted to keep the CH flow temperature down if that is a
problem.
Better still, if the cylinder is old replace it with a quick recovery
cylinder to reduce time heating the cylinder. Travis Perkins do the
Telford
Typhoon very reasonably. Doing this will transform the system for
little
outlay.

IMM,
I prefer to have valves that allow heating water and rads simultaneously
if
needed,

On demand for hot water, it's sometimes important that all the heat
output of the boiler is directed in that direction. It would have to be
a quite powerful boiler which could handle both simultaneously

Don't forget that the CH will probably already have a lot of heat in it
which takes some time to cool

Also quick recovery coils take only a few minutes to heat up. Quick
recovery cylinders eliminate boiler cycling, meaning less fuel bills.

so I would not be happy to use the "diverter" W-Plan option.
Looks like it is going out of favour now also,as I did not see it as an
option from some manufacturers and found an article recommending them to
be
replaced where found see -
http://www.gasman.fsbusiness.co.uk/f...ed_systems.htm

Thanks for your suggestion on quick recovery cylinder - I want to get
one,
but so far only found the "Superduty" by Albion.
And thanks for your recommendation of good valve makes.

Dave



--
geoff

Motorised valves - good makes?
 

"logized" wrote in message
...


The best way is to fit a 3-port "diverter" valve to give a priority
system.
A diverter is similar to a 2-port valve with just another port. The
boiler
will need to be on full temperature. A simple clamp-on pipe stat on the
flow
can be fitted to keep the CH flow temperature down if that is a problem.
Better still, if the cylinder is old replace it with a quick recovery
cylinder to reduce time heating the cylinder. Travis Perkins do the
Telford
Typhoon very reasonably. Doing this will transform the system for little
outlay.

IMM,
I prefer to have valves that allow heating water and rads simultaneously
if
needed, so I would not be happy to use the "diverter" W-Plan option.
Looks like it is going out of favour now also,as I did not see it as an
option from some manufacturers and found an article recommending them to
be
replaced where found see -
http://www.gasman.fsbusiness.co.uk/f...ed_systems.htm

From the above web site in quotes:

" If you are converting an existing Gravity Hw system to fully pumped then
the new boiler is best located near the cylinder"

Why? This is nonsense!!! he goes on....

"or even in the cylinder cupboard as the Motorised valve is best situated
next to the cylinder"

Why? This is more nonsense!!! The site is full of misguided opinions.

Motorised valves - good makes?
 

In message , logized
writes


The best way is to fit a 3-port "diverter" valve to give a priority
system.
A diverter is similar to a 2-port valve with just another port. The boiler
will need to be on full temperature. A simple clamp-on pipe stat on the
flow
can be fitted to keep the CH flow temperature down if that is a problem.
Better still, if the cylinder is old replace it with a quick recovery
cylinder to reduce time heating the cylinder. Travis Perkins do the
Telford
Typhoon very reasonably. Doing this will transform the system for little
outlay.

IMM,
I prefer to have valves that allow heating water and rads simultaneously if
needed,

On demand for hot water, it's sometimes important that all the heat
output of the boiler is directed in that direction. It would have to be
a quite powerful boiler which could handle both simultaneously

Don't forget that the CH will probably already have a lot of heat in it
which takes some time to cool

so I would not be happy to use the "diverter" W-Plan option.
Looks like it is going out of favour now also,as I did not see it as an
option from some manufacturers and found an article recommending them to be
replaced where found see -
http://www.gasman.fsbusiness.co.uk/f...ed_systems.htm

Thanks for your suggestion on quick recovery cylinder - I want to get one,
but so far only found the "Superduty" by Albion.
And thanks for your recommendation of good valve makes.

Dave



--
geoff

Motorised valves - good makes?
 

In message , Set Square
writes
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
raden wrote:

In message , Set Square
writes

3-port mid-position valves have an inherent weakness in that they
rely on microswitches in the actuator to control both the valve and
external parts of the overall system - inluding switching boiler and
pump on in CH-only mode.


I don't think I've ever come across cam wear in an actuator head in
the (high) hundreds which I've repaired in the past

The most common problem is synchron motor failure - they all use more
or less the same motor (although there were some better quality ones
in the past

The second most common fault is contacts burning on the microswitches
(again in the past some actuator heads used larger microswitches)

The other common problem is weak return springs


I bow to your superior experience in dealing with hundreds of the things.
The few I've taken to bits have had rather wobbly cam plates (as opposed to
worn cam surfaces per se - perhaps my description could have been better).
However, the effect is the same - if the switch doesn't operate for whatever
reason - or if the motor fails - the HW/CH system doesn't work properly.

Well, in the early days of CET, when I recon'd pumps, actuators and
anything which would bring in a few quid, that's how I see it.


--
geoff

Motorised valves - good makes?
 

"logized" wrote in message
...


The best way is to fit a 3-port "diverter" valve to give a priority
system.
A diverter is similar to a 2-port valve with just another port. The
boiler
will need to be on full temperature. A simple clamp-on pipe stat on the
flow
can be fitted to keep the CH flow temperature down if that is a problem.
Better still, if the cylinder is old replace it with a quick recovery
cylinder to reduce time heating the cylinder. Travis Perkins do the
Telford
Typhoon very reasonably. Doing this will transform the system for little
outlay.

IMM,

I prefer to have valves that allow heating
water and rads simultaneously if
needed,

Why? The reheat takes a few minutes and is more economical. The cylinder
is effectively made larger as all the boilers heat is taken as you draw-off
hot water.

so I would not be happy to use the "diverter" W-Plan option.
Looks like it is going out of favour now also,as I did not see it as an
option from some manufacturers and found an article recommending them to
be
replaced where found see -
http://www.gasman.fsbusiness.co.uk/f...ed_systems.htm

The man who wrote that web site should get to know something about heating
before he starts to write garbage like that.

Thanks for your suggestion on quick recovery cylinder - I want to get one,
but so far only found the "Superduty" by Albion.
And thanks for your recommendation of good valve makes.

Range do one too. http://www.range-cylinders.co.uk The Telford Typhoon is
the cheapest.

A 3-port diverter priority system using a quick recovery cylinder is the
best setup. If using a condensing boiler even better again as the quick
recovery coil ensures a cool return temperature.

Motorised valves - good makes?
 

In article , Set Square
writes
Honeywell seems to have a reasonable reputation - so something from the
V4043 range should do the job. If you're worried about flow restriction, you
could use 28mm
valves - with adapters either side to connect to your 22mm pipework.
However, a very short length of restriction is not usually too much of a
problem.
My vote goes for Honeywell too as they have had the same (simple) design
for years and are likely to have the same for the foreseeable future so
spares won't be a problem.

As to the 28mm valve thing, I think all the valves under a given base
number use the same basic internals with just a different size fitting, so
the level of restriction is about the same for 22 & 28mm models. If using
22mm pipe, keep it simple & use a 22mm valve - cheaper too.
--
fred

Motorised valves - good makes?
 

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
fred wrote:

..

As to the 28mm valve thing, I think all the valves under a given base
number use the same basic internals with just a different size
fitting, so the level of restriction is about the same for 22 & 28mm
models.

I don't think that's right. This range covers 3 sizes of valve - 1/2", 3/4"
(22mm) and 1" (28mm). Honeywell's web site shows 3 different performance
graphs (pressure drop vs flow) - one for each size. For a given flow rate, a
28mm valve definitely has a lower pressure drop than a 22mm valve.

Having said that, it probably doesn't make all that much difference in the
overall scheme of things - as I indicated in my previous post.

--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
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Motorised valves - good makes?
 

On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 10:29:15 GMT, fred wrote:

In article , Set Square
writes
Honeywell seems to have a reasonable reputation - so something from the
V4043 range should do the job. If you're worried about flow restriction, you
could use 28mm
valves - with adapters either side to connect to your 22mm pipework.
However, a very short length of restriction is not usually too much of a
problem.
My vote goes for Honeywell too as they have had the same (simple) design
for years and are likely to have the same for the foreseeable future so
spares won't be a problem.

As to the 28mm valve thing, I think all the valves under a given base
number use the same basic internals with just a different size fitting, so
the level of restriction is about the same for 22 & 28mm models. If using
22mm pipe, keep it simple & use a 22mm valve - cheaper too.

The 28mm valves have about a 20% lower pressure drop than the 22mm at
the higher end of specified flow rates according to the data
sheet......




..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Motorised valves - good makes?
 

"fred" wrote in message ...
In article , Set Square
writes
Honeywell seems to have a reasonable reputation - so something from the
V4043 range should do the job. If you're worried about flow restriction,
you
could use 28mm
valves - with adapters either side to connect to your 22mm pipework.
However, a very short length of restriction is not usually too much of a
problem.
My vote goes for Honeywell too as they have had the same (simple) design
for years and are likely to have the same for the foreseeable future so
spares won't be a problem.

As to the 28mm valve thing, I think all the valves under a given base
number use the same basic internals with just a different size fitting, so
the level of restriction is about the same for 22 & 28mm models. If using
22mm pipe, keep it simple & use a 22mm valve - cheaper too.

Look inside a 22mm and 28mm together. the 28mm is bigger.

Motorised valves - good makes?
 

In article , Imm wrote:
Look inside a 22mm and 28mm together. the 28mm is bigger.

But they all use the same Synchron motor don't they - and it's this
that fails most of the time IME

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

Motorised valves - good makes?
 

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Tony Bryer wrote:

In article , Imm
wrote:
Look inside a 22mm and 28mm together. the 28mm is bigger.

But they all use the same Synchron motor don't they - and it's this
that fails most of the time IME

This may be true - but it has little to do with the relative flow resistance
of 28mm vs 22mm valves - which is what is being discussed in this part of
the thread!
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
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Motorised valves - good makes?
 

In article , Set Square
writes
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
fred wrote:

.

As to the 28mm valve thing, I think all the valves under a given base
number use the same basic internals with just a different size
fitting, so the level of restriction is about the same for 22 & 28mm
models.

I don't think that's right. This range covers 3 sizes of valve - 1/2", 3/4"
(22mm) and 1" (28mm). Honeywell's web site shows 3 different performance
graphs (pressure drop vs flow) - one for each size. For a given flow rate, a
28mm valve definitely has a lower pressure drop than a 22mm valve.

I sit corrected, I had based my assumption on the spares (ball etc) being
the same for all of them (unless I've got that wrong as well ;), meaning
roughly the same opposition, apparently not . . . .
--
fred

Motorised valves - good makes?
 

"Set Square" wrote in
:

I'm tacking this on to Set Square's post to summarise and thank
contributors.

I'll stick with 22mm 2 port valves, it seems a lot easier, though I'm
not sure which types cause least obstruction.

I like the looks of the Myson - I'm a sucker for blinkenlights - and
there seems no point in skimping on components; after all, I'm not
paying a plumber.

Speaking of which, while I was ripping out 15mm piping today, I found
the folks who extended me front room, and had to rerun the rad pipes,
put in isolator valves at the beginning of their new pipes on flow and
return, I can't think why, they can't have been an installation aid.

Any how, although they looked nice and chunky, the full aperture is 6mm,
and that services 2 radiators! Considering that the rest were balanced
to match, I'm surprised the heating worked at all, let alone, TBH, quite
well apart from the short cycling.

This was the same outfit that put a compression jointed isolator in the
bog cistern pipe 3 feet from the stopcock and tiled over it.

Several years later, after fitting a new flush mechanism, I got flooded
UNDER the professionally laid sealed down bloody lino....

And as I can't do craft trades, the smashed into bit of boxing in is
still there.

Must be I need a tradesman

mike

Motorised valves - good makes?
 

"IMM" wrote in message ...

Drayton and Honeywell are good.

How quiet are they ? (I've been told elsewhere that spring return
valves whine, and I thought the motor return valve that just gave up
the ghost at my end was bad!)