Per Karen's encouragement, I went to the accupuncture clinic, which
is right next door to AxMan Surplus. Dr. Liu asked me what problem I
wanted him to address. I wondered why he didn't read what I'd written
on the form on the freakin' clipboard. I said I would like to reduce
grief-induced anxiety. He smiled, said, "yes, I will help you."

He swabbed spots on my skin with some stuff that was probably
antiseptic with some topical anesthetic because all I felt was
pressure when he stuck needles behind my ears and in the backs of my
hands -- but they did hurt a little if I moved my hands afterwards. He
wanted me to lie flat on my back on a bed but I don't do flat on my
back if I can help it so he said on my side would be OK too. I'd have
liked a recliner a whole lot better.

He left me there a while to snooze or zen or whatever I might want to
do, then by and by a woman came in, de-needled me and said I was
done and free to go.

I didn't notice any beneficial effect at all. Karen had said it
might take several sessions to achieve what I want it to accomplish
and Dr. Liu said the same thing. Karen said the improvement after a
month might be quite marked. Well hell, I'm expected marked
improvement after a month of just gettin' up and makin' it thru the
day 30 more times. In 30 days it will be glorious May in Minnesota.
Hardly ever snows on mother's day.

I'll give it two more tries. If I don't definitely notice benefit
after that then I'll declare failure. I really would like it to work,
so I really am willing to give it a chance. Many have said it has
provided significant and immediate mitigation of physical pain as in
sports strains and sprains. I saw my neighbor down the street
Michelle there today. She said her and her hub have been going there
regularly for years, didn't say why.

Noticed yesterday while recharging meds magazines that I was about
out of one drug. She who used to take care of that (and me) ain't
doin' that no more so it's up to me now. I called it in yesterday,
picked up the new batch today.

Karen will be here for one more day. I'll cover the penalty for
ticket change. Having her here one more day is definitely worth it to
me. I'm calling it a health care expense. I doubt if the tax man
would agree so I'll just call it that in my own mind.

Some of my recent lack of interest in life is dissipating a bit. I
really enjoyed my fish creole yesterday and also enjoyed that others
enjoyed it. I can't get very interested in TV yet. Mary and I
shared a couple of hours in adjacent recliners watching TV most
evenings, holding hands and racing for the yellow quilt on winter
nights.

I have watched a couple of shows and I'm enjoying watching the 10:00
news which I digitally record so I can watch it 20 minutes after real
time and skip thru the commercials. I bought a book at Wal-Mart
today, a new Stuart Wood, may not read it until this summer. Stuart
Wood is easy read, great for on the deck at the lake. I used to get
a lot of reading done at Mayo.

Karen joined me for my 3 miles today so I didn't carry. I need to go
up to Anoka on Wednesday to renew my carry permit.

Our friend Jan called tonight. She's trying to set something up and
I'd like to do that too. We might connect Friday night for supper at
the Red Robin on their side of town. I'd never eaten at a Red Robin
until last Saturday with Karl, Jacob and Karen. Karen and I split a
salmon sandwich that was really excellent. I could definitely do that
again -- and Red Robin serves cold draft beer which is right up there
on Bob's (Jan's husband, my former colleague and truely exemplary
engineer) priority list. I enjoy it too. Jan about talked my ear
off tonight. She can do that. She and Mar were thick as thieves so
I'm very interested in what Jan has to say about some of their
exchanges as close female friends.

Jan had no idea that Mary might have a few secrets. She was blown
away when I mentioned that Mar had been corresponding with a former
lover, and even that she'd had a lover while I was courting her back
in 1981. Golly, it didn't bother me to discover that back then. It
would have been surprising if there wasn't. She was a very attractive
and interesting woman of incredible depth and complexity. He was/is a
PhD in psych able to appreciate her depth and complexity. She told
me that he told her that she was the most complex person he'd ever
known.

He was there first, but I was there last, won her hawrt, took milady
home to my castle and gave her a good and happy life. It didn't
bother me a bit that she was corresponding with J.P. I think she may
even have told me that she was doing that. There is and was no
scintilla of doubt about her love for and commitment to me. She may
have just been tying up some loose ends.

Karen tomorrow, maybe a look at a different accupuncture place --
downscale a bit, might actually be more comfortable for me. Community
clinic, pay according to ability. I'll pay top rates, no problem,
but I might like the more informal setting -- with recliners rather
than horizontal beds! Several people in a room, not sequestered. Mayo
does chemo like that. There's a good reason why they do that. The
recipient of treatment feels less forlorn when there are fellow
travellers they can see and maybe share experiences with if they like.
One positive person in a group setting like that can make a huge
difference. I think the impromptu and improv Mary 'n Don gentle
comedic banter lightened and brightened the day of a number of chemo
recipients at Mayo.

More later. Time to hit the sack. I think maybe I am starting to
emerged from stunned paralysis. I still hurt like bloody hell so
perhaps the numbness abates along with the pain it suppresses. That's
progress of a sort, I guess. I'm getting impatient for more and
faster progress.

Don Foreman wrote:

(...)

I didn't notice any beneficial effect at all.

Perhaps you need to take it up a notch, Don.

Example:
When I scrape my hand on an exhaust bracket,
I don't agonize over my Alzheimer's diagnosis at all.



--Winston

On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 07:08:02 -0700, Winston
wrote:

Don Foreman wrote:

(...)

I didn't notice any beneficial effect at all.

Perhaps you need to take it up a notch, Don.

Example:
When I scrape my hand on an exhaust bracket,
I don't agonize over my Alzheimer's diagnosis at all.



--Winston

I don't understand your example, Winston.

I don't know if this acupuncture stuff is gonna work or not to get my
fu aligned with my poo or whatever it's supposed to do, but both of my
kids say it has worked very well for them so I'm willing to give it a
fair trial. What the hell, it costs less than smoking did and it
doesn't hurt.

On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 01:30:32 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 07:08:02 -0700, Winston
wrote:

Don Foreman wrote:

(...)

I didn't notice any beneficial effect at all.

Perhaps you need to take it up a notch, Don.

Example:
When I scrape my hand on an exhaust bracket,
I don't agonize over my Alzheimer's diagnosis at all.



--Winston

I don't understand your example, Winston.

I don't know if this acupuncture stuff is gonna work or not to get my
fu aligned with my poo or whatever it's supposed to do, but both of my
kids say it has worked very well for them so I'm willing to give it a
fair trial. What the hell, it costs less than smoking did and it
doesn't hurt.


Generally speaking acupuncture seems to work best for alleviating
pain. Certainly it has worked for me, even when I approached it with
the attitude that "it can never work".

Whether it works as a tranquilizer or similar I have no idea although
my wife swears that it helped her stay on a diet and I also know a
number of people who recommend it as an aid to stopping smoking.

Cheers,

John D. Slocomb
(jdslocombatgmail)

Don Foreman wrote:
On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 07:08:02 -0700,
wrote:

Don Foreman wrote:

(...)

I didn't notice any beneficial effect at all.

Perhaps you need to take it up a notch, Don.

Example:
When I scrape my hand on an exhaust bracket,
I don't agonize over my Alzheimer's diagnosis at all.



--Winston

I don't understand your example, Winston.

Sometimes when we get really bad news, it's almost helpful
to be distracted by a relatively trivial piece of bad news.

Sort of lifts us out of the mental rut for a bit.

On February 15, 2008 I was diagnosed with late stage 5 Alzheimer's
Disease:
http://alzheimers.about.com/od/sympt...a/symptoms.htm

Two of my doctors said I'd be in stage 6 soon.

Now, when an electronic simulation isn't going well, or I bop
myself on the foot with an object that I should have picked up
differently, it's almost a relief to have something relatively
unimportant to think about for a moment, rather than dwelling
on my poor deteriorating brain. My example was an attempt at
humor regarding this effect.

I don't know if this acupuncture stuff is gonna work or not to get my
fu aligned with my poo or whatever it's supposed to do, but both of my
kids say it has worked very well for them so I'm willing to give it a
fair trial. What the hell, it costs less than smoking did and it
doesn't hurt.

I have mixed emotions about that. (Not that it's any of my business!)

Obviously, I'm happy to see your optimism springing back.

At the same time, we both know how vulnerable one can be after
experiencing a life-changing tragedy, so things that appear
to offer hope can be very disappointing, or worse, a continuing
time and energy sink, just when one need one's time and energy
the most.

--Winston

On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 06:30:05 -0700
Winston wrote:

On February 15, 2008 I was diagnosed with late stage 5 Alzheimer's
Disease:
http://alzheimers.about.com/od/sympt...a/symptoms.htm

Two of my doctors said I'd be in stage 6 soon.
snip

Didn't know Winston, really sorry to hear about this diagnosis...

My Dad had Alzheimer's, after reviewing the link you gave I would
dispute your Doc's diagnosis. Unless you have a Doppelganger around
that posts here pretty regular I've noticed nothing in your postings
that even hints of dementia, so I would say you could/would be more like
stage 3 right now (only really close people would notice odd things).
My Dad's woes were very apparent at stage 5 and I seriously doubt
anyone at this stage could function/post sensible stuff in a usenet
group such as this.

Hang in there Winston!

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On 2011-04-13, Winston wrote:

Sometimes when we get really bad news, it's almost helpful
to be distracted by a relatively trivial piece of bad news.

Sort of lifts us out of the mental rut for a bit.

On February 15, 2008 I was diagnosed with late stage 5 Alzheimer's
Disease:
http://alzheimers.about.com/od/sympt...a/symptoms.htm

Two of my doctors said I'd be in stage 6 soon.

Now, when an electronic simulation isn't going well, or I bop
myself on the foot with an object that I should have picked up
differently, it's almost a relief to have something relatively
unimportant to think about for a moment, rather than dwelling
on my poor deteriorating brain. My example was an attempt at
humor regarding this effect.

Winston, I am also concerned about myself and that I am sometimes
forgetful, more than I would like. I cannot really figure out if it is
just my natural state, or I have a progressing disease like
Alzheimers.

On the one thing, I can do moderately complicated things such as
retrofitting a mill with EMC2. That's a plus.

On the other hand, I do misplace things or forget about some things. I
would say that I am "easily distracted". Say, today I forgot to take a
wallet with me.

I am quite concerned about this, especially in light of the fact that
two of my grandparents had/have dementia.

Everything I read about early stage of Alzheimers is extremely
non-specific and not really definitive.

i

Leon Fisk wrote:
On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 06:30:05 -0700
wrote:

On February 15, 2008 I was diagnosed with late stage 5 Alzheimer's
Disease:
http://alzheimers.about.com/od/sympt...a/symptoms.htm

Two of my doctors said I'd be in stage 6 soon.
snip

Didn't know Winston, really sorry to hear about this diagnosis...

My Dad had Alzheimer's, after reviewing the link you gave I would
dispute your Doc's diagnosis.

I'm sorry to hear about your dad. That must have been heartbreaking.

I disputed my doctor's diagnosis as well, but not being a medical
professional, I wasn't seen as having too much 'standing'.

Of 5 doctors that examined me at the time, three didn't diagnose any
such impairment, or anything remotely related to it.
Perhaps it is one of those fatal illnesses that presents as normalcy.

Unless you have a Doppelganger around
that posts here pretty regular

I haven't detected any.

I've noticed nothing in your postings
that even hints of dementia, so I would say you could/would be more like
stage 3 right now (only really close people would notice odd things).

Behind schedule again!

My Dad's woes were very apparent at stage 5 and I seriously doubt
anyone at this stage could function/post sensible stuff in a usenet
group such as this.

Some would argue otherwise.

Hang in there Winston!


Thanks, Leon.

--Winston

Ignoramus10266 wrote:
On 2011-04-13, wrote:

Sometimes when we get really bad news, it's almost helpful
to be distracted by a relatively trivial piece of bad news.

Sort of lifts us out of the mental rut for a bit.

On February 15, 2008 I was diagnosed with late stage 5 Alzheimer's
Disease:
http://alzheimers.about.com/od/sympt...a/symptoms.htm

Two of my doctors said I'd be in stage 6 soon.

Now, when an electronic simulation isn't going well, or I bop
myself on the foot with an object that I should have picked up
differently, it's almost a relief to have something relatively
unimportant to think about for a moment, rather than dwelling
on my poor deteriorating brain. My example was an attempt at
humor regarding this effect.

Winston, I am also concerned about myself and that I am sometimes
forgetful, more than I would like. I cannot really figure out if it is
just my natural state, or I have a progressing disease like
Alzheimers.

I expect that disease - free people occasionally forget things
and experience times when they don't feel very sharp, mentally.
The person who doesn't, is either a statistical outlier or is
being less than candid on the interview paperwork, IMHO.

Early diagnosis has to be a problem because of the fact that we
don't have clearly - defined inarguable criteria.

On the one thing, I can do moderately complicated things such as
retrofitting a mill with EMC2. That's a plus.

That is non-trivial mental exercise. Fun, too!

On the other hand, I do misplace things or forget about some things. I
would say that I am "easily distracted". Say, today I forgot to take a
wallet with me.

People do that. Stuff happens.

I am quite concerned about this, especially in light of the fact that
two of my grandparents had/have dementia.

Concerning, for sure.

Everything I read about early stage of Alzheimers is extremely
non-specific and not really definitive.

Our knowledge about the brain is quite insufficient, IMHO.

Tell ya what, Ig. I'll go in first and radio back.

--Winston

On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 14:20:18 -0500
Ignoramus10266 wrote:

snip
On the one thing, I can do moderately complicated things such as
retrofitting a mill with EMC2. That's a plus.

Learning something new after ~30 gets more and more difficult. Or
rather maybe a better way of putting it, retaining new stuff we learn
after ~30 becomes more and more difficult. The fact that you are is a
really good sign that nothing significant is happening so far. Physical
and mental exercise have been shown to slow down the progression of
this disease.

On the other hand, I do misplace things or forget about some things. I
would say that I am "easily distracted". Say, today I forgot to take a
wallet with me.

Being easily distracted is not the same as having no knowledge that you
should/need to take your wallet with you. Especially not knowing where
it is when it is in fact where you have put it for years. One thing I
have learned is not to move stuff to new places if at all possible. The
old place may not be convenient, but that is where I'll go looking for
it and then realize it isn't there, but moved to... I've been able to
find lots of stuff by just thinking "where would I put this right now"
and then go look there. Once you begin second guessing, moving things
around it won't work anymore.

I am quite concerned about this, especially in light of the fact that
two of my grandparents had/have dementia.

I'm in a similar situation, my Dad had it or something causing extreme
dementia for sure.

Everything I read about early stage of Alzheimers is extremely
non-specific and not really definitive.

After watching my Dad go to pot on a day-to-day basis, wondering about
stuff he was/wasn't doing, I think I could spot it in somebody else a
bit sooner now. I doubt that you would be able to notice these
small changes though yourself (shrug).

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

Ed Huntress wrote:

(...)

The earliest stages of most dementias are difficult to distinguish from
aging and just packing your memory to the hilt. Nearly everyone I know who
is my age (62) comments about it, and the scientific evidence is that it's
completely normal. I noticed that I was getting forgetful about short-term
things when I was in my '40s.

Yup. I write 'task lists', now. Very helpful.

What Winston is talking about is much different. Like Leon, it would startle
me to learn that the diagnosis was correct, given the sharpness of mind
evidenced by Winston's posts. I sincerely hope they're being overly
pessimistic.

Thanks, Ed. Coming from you that is a huge deal.

You'll be pleased or greatly upset to learn that it hasn't affected my
daily life much at all. I drive around, shop, work on my projects just
like normal.

What I've learned to do about general forgetfulness is something that comes
easily to me these days: Forget about it. d8-)

Done!

(Sorry for hijacking your thread, Don.)

--Winston

On 2011-04-13, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 14:20:18 -0500
Ignoramus10266 wrote:

snip
On the one thing, I can do moderately complicated things such as
retrofitting a mill with EMC2. That's a plus.

Learning something new after ~30 gets more and more difficult. Or
rather maybe a better way of putting it, retaining new stuff we learn
after ~30 becomes more and more difficult. The fact that you are is a
really good sign that nothing significant is happening so far. Physical
and mental exercise have been shown to slow down the progression of
this disease.

I am not convinced that mental exercise is really a cause of
postponing dementia, or a consequence of not having early stages of
it.

That said, I did think, before embarking on a CNC retrofit, that it
would be a good test of my mental function, as I would need to learn
and retain quite a few things to put the puzzle together.

On the other hand, I do misplace things or forget about some things. I
would say that I am "easily distracted". Say, today I forgot to take a
wallet with me.

Being easily distracted is not the same as having no knowledge that you
should/need to take your wallet with you. Especially not knowing where
it is when it is in fact where you have put it for years. One thing I
have learned is not to move stuff to new places if at all possible. The
old place may not be convenient, but that is where I'll go looking for
it and then realize it isn't there, but moved to... I've been able to
find lots of stuff by just thinking "where would I put this right now"
and then go look there. Once you begin second guessing, moving things
around it won't work anymore.

I am still trying to understand the difference between "ordinary
forgetfulness", if there is such a thing, and early stage of
dementia. Kind of like what you are alluding to.

I am quite concerned about this, especially in light of the fact that
two of my grandparents had/have dementia.

I'm in a similar situation, my Dad had it or something causing extreme
dementia for sure.

I am actually optimistic that in 20 years, they will find a cure for
Alzheimers.

Everything I read about early stage of Alzheimers is extremely
non-specific and not really definitive.

After watching my Dad go to pot on a day-to-day basis, wondering about
stuff he was/wasn't doing, I think I could spot it in somebody else a
bit sooner now. I doubt that you would be able to notice these
small changes though yourself (shrug).

I really would like to know, as I have a family and need to make
decisions rooted in reality.

i

On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 03:07:50 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

Per Karen's encouragement, I went to the accupuncture clinic, which
is right next door to AxMan Surplus.

Ooooh. Axman. Good for a couple of hours of browsing. Nothing
exactly like that near where I live in central PA. My son took me
there when I visited him at the university on the way home from a
business trip. He was doing an EE summer internship at the time.

RWL

On 2011-04-13, wrote:

Sometimes when we get really bad news, it's almost helpful
to be distracted by a relatively trivial piece of bad news.

Sort of lifts us out of the mental rut for a bit.

On February 15, 2008 I was diagnosed with late stage 5 Alzheimer's
Disease:
http://alzheimers.about.com/od/sympt...a/symptoms.htm

Two of my doctors said I'd be in stage 6 soon.

Dayum, I thought you were kidding about that. Condolences, Winnie.
http://www.alz.org/alzheimers_diseas...alzheimers.asp
6 is "not good", I see.


Ig said:
Our knowledge about the brain is quite insufficient, IMHO.

Tell ya what, Ig. I'll go in first and radio back.

Don't forget to wear clean underwear! What's the channel?

--
The United States of America is the greatest, the
noblest and, in its original founding principles,
the only moral country in the history of the world.
-- Ayn Rand

Larry Jaques wrote:

On 2011-04-13, wrote:

Sometimes when we get really bad news, it's almost helpful
to be distracted by a relatively trivial piece of bad news.

Sort of lifts us out of the mental rut for a bit.

On February 15, 2008 I was diagnosed with late stage 5 Alzheimer's
Disease:
http://alzheimers.about.com/od/sympt...a/symptoms.htm

Two of my doctors said I'd be in stage 6 soon.

Dayum, I thought you were kidding about that. Condolences, Winnie.
http://www.alz.org/alzheimers_diseas...alzheimers.asp
6 is "not good", I see.

Yup. I haven't seen any issues beyond "Stage 2"
and it's been 39 months since my "Stage 5"
diagnosis.
I'm not a trained professional, so what do I know.

I will continue to wait patiently.

Ig said:
Our knowledge about the brain is quite insufficient, IMHO.

Tell ya what, Ig. I'll go in first and radio back.

Don't forget to wear clean underwear! What's the channel?

You are tuned in properly, Larry.



--Winston

On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 06:30:05 -0700, Winston
wrote:

Don Foreman wrote:
On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 07:08:02 -0700,
wrote:

Don Foreman wrote:

(...)

I didn't notice any beneficial effect at all.

Perhaps you need to take it up a notch, Don.

Example:
When I scrape my hand on an exhaust bracket,
I don't agonize over my Alzheimer's diagnosis at all.



--Winston

I don't understand your example, Winston.

Sometimes when we get really bad news, it's almost helpful
to be distracted by a relatively trivial piece of bad news.

Sort of lifts us out of the mental rut for a bit.

On February 15, 2008 I was diagnosed with late stage 5 Alzheimer's
Disease:
http://alzheimers.about.com/od/sympt...a/symptoms.htm

Two of my doctors said I'd be in stage 6 soon.

Now, when an electronic simulation isn't going well, or I bop
myself on the foot with an object that I should have picked up
differently, it's almost a relief to have something relatively
unimportant to think about for a moment, rather than dwelling
on my poor deteriorating brain. My example was an attempt at
humor regarding this effect.

I don't know if this acupuncture stuff is gonna work or not to get my
fu aligned with my poo or whatever it's supposed to do, but both of my
kids say it has worked very well for them so I'm willing to give it a
fair trial. What the hell, it costs less than smoking did and it
doesn't hurt.

I have mixed emotions about that. (Not that it's any of my business!)

Obviously, I'm happy to see your optimism springing back.

At the same time, we both know how vulnerable one can be after
experiencing a life-changing tragedy, so things that appear
to offer hope can be very disappointing, or worse, a continuing
time and energy sink, just when one need one's time and energy
the most.

--Winston

OK, now I'm with you and tracking. I totally agree that hope is not a
strategy.

I'm investing little hope and less money in the acupuncture bit. It's
an experiment. If it works, great. If it doesn't, nothing lost but a
few hours and a few bucks. I'll survive either way.

I'm very sorry to hear about your diagnosis and how it is affecting
your outlook on life. You certainly present here like everything is
working OK.

I've always marvelled at the stories about how so-and-so "heroically
fought his cancer" or whatever. I now understand it better. The
medics fight cancer with drugs and surgery with varying degrees of
success, all the afflicted can do is maintain an attitude that
maximizes their quality of life along the way.

A diagnosis is not a life-changing tragedy, it's a discovery of a
condition that may define one's endgame which certainly can and
perhaps should be life-changing in some situations. It ain't a
tragedy until the fat lady sings but it is notice that inevitable
tragedy (demise) is more imminent than in a vague future.

It's an opportunity and notice that one's life meter is running low so
it's time to do whatever one can to maximize quality of remaining life
for self and loved ones if one wasn't already doing so.

Mary made the most of every single day of her life after being
diagnosed with an incurable terminal disease. Some of those days were
a bit tough, but most were good or better. While hope is not a
strategy, it can be a very powerful motivator and offer great solace.
Mary and I hoped for the best all the way and that hope gave us great
comfort and enabled us to enjoy each other's cheerful banter, warm
companionship, camaraderie and love until her final hours.

She was radiantly happy at our chow mein party in the gathering room
at the rehab when I fetched chow mein per her instructions, her son
Dave and her very good friend joined us for dinner. She was weak, in
a wheelchair, but she had good appetite and her wonderful leprechaun
wit, hugely enjoyed that little dinner party. We didn't know she was
on final though she might have suspected. If she did, she protected us
from that.

She died peacefully six days later. I'd squeezed her leaky, edemic
hand the night before she died at Mayo as she cheerfully bade me "go
home, Foreman, I'll be here at least until Sunday. Bring me some lip
balm and the hard case for my glasses."

Enjoy your loved ones and family, let them enjoy you right now. Make
that job 1.

On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 13:28:01 -0700, Winston
wrote:



(Sorry for hijacking your thread, Don.)

No prob.

On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 21:11:10 -0700, Winston
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

On 2011-04-13, wrote:

Sometimes when we get really bad news, it's almost helpful
to be distracted by a relatively trivial piece of bad news.

Sort of lifts us out of the mental rut for a bit.

On February 15, 2008 I was diagnosed with late stage 5 Alzheimer's
Disease:
http://alzheimers.about.com/od/sympt...a/symptoms.htm

Two of my doctors said I'd be in stage 6 soon.

Dayum, I thought you were kidding about that. Condolences, Winnie.
http://www.alz.org/alzheimers_diseas...alzheimers.asp
6 is "not good", I see.

Yup. I haven't seen any issues beyond "Stage 2"
and it's been 39 months since my "Stage 5"
diagnosis.
I'm not a trained professional, so what do I know.

Farkin' gaddam DOCTORS!


I will continue to wait patiently.

Park it at Stage 2 and call that doctor nightly, just before you go to
bed, and give him your much more informed diagnosis.


Ig said:
Our knowledge about the brain is quite insufficient, IMHO.

Tell ya what, Ig. I'll go in first and radio back.

Don't forget to wear clean underwear! What's the channel?

You are tuned in properly, Larry.

Same Bat Time, Same Bat Usenet Station, Pooh?
AOK

--
The United States of America is the greatest, the
noblest and, in its original founding principles,
the only moral country in the history of the world.
-- Ayn Rand

Don Foreman wrote:

(...)

Enjoy your loved ones and family, let them enjoy you right now. Make
that job 1.

You are as eloquent and focused as ever.
Thanks for these thoughts, Don.

--Winston

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 21:11:10 -0700,
wrote:

(...)

Yup. I haven't seen any issues beyond "Stage 2"
and it's been 39 months since my "Stage 5"
diagnosis.
I'm not a trained professional, so what do I know.

Farkin' gaddam DOCTORS!

Not their fault, Larry.

If my corporation told the docs I needed a hysterectomy
and breast augmentation, that would have been the
treatment plan.

Docs gotta eat too, ya know.

I will continue to wait patiently.

Park it at Stage 2 and call that doctor nightly, just before you go to
bed, and give him your much more informed diagnosis.

That'd be harassment.
I wouldn't be any good at it.

Ig said:
Our knowledge about the brain is quite insufficient, IMHO.

Tell ya what, Ig. I'll go in first and radio back.

Don't forget to wear clean underwear! What's the channel?

You are tuned in properly, Larry.

Same Bat Time, Same Bat Usenet Station, Pooh?

Right, Commissioner!

To the Batmobile, Robin!

--BatWin

On 2011-04-13, Ed Huntress wrote:

"Ignoramus10266" wrote in message
...
On 2011-04-13, Winston wrote:

Sometimes when we get really bad news, it's almost helpful
to be distracted by a relatively trivial piece of bad news.

Sort of lifts us out of the mental rut for a bit.

On February 15, 2008 I was diagnosed with late stage 5 Alzheimer's
Disease:
http://alzheimers.about.com/od/sympt...a/symptoms.htm

Two of my doctors said I'd be in stage 6 soon.

Now, when an electronic simulation isn't going well, or I bop
myself on the foot with an object that I should have picked up
differently, it's almost a relief to have something relatively
unimportant to think about for a moment, rather than dwelling
on my poor deteriorating brain. My example was an attempt at
humor regarding this effect.

Winston, I am also concerned about myself and that I am sometimes
forgetful, more than I would like. I cannot really figure out if it is
just my natural state, or I have a progressing disease like
Alzheimers.

On the one thing, I can do moderately complicated things such as
retrofitting a mill with EMC2. That's a plus.

On the other hand, I do misplace things or forget about some things. I
would say that I am "easily distracted". Say, today I forgot to take a
wallet with me.

I am quite concerned about this, especially in light of the fact that
two of my grandparents had/have dementia.

Everything I read about early stage of Alzheimers is extremely
non-specific and not really definitive.

The earliest stages of most dementias are difficult to distinguish from
aging and just packing your memory to the hilt. Nearly everyone I know who
is my age (62) comments about it, and the scientific evidence is that it's
completely normal. I noticed that I was getting forgetful about short-term
things when I was in my '40s.

I always was.

What Winston is talking about is much different. Like Leon, it would startle
me to learn that the diagnosis was correct, given the sharpness of mind
evidenced by Winston's posts. I sincerely hope they're being overly
pessimistic.

The example that I found the best, is this. Regular forgetfulness is
when you forget a wallet when going on a shopping trip.

Alzheimer's is when you put the waller into the refrigerator.

What I've learned to do about general forgetfulness is something that comes
easily to me these days: Forget about it. d8-)

Forget about what?

i

On 2011-04-13, Winston wrote:
Ed Huntress wrote:

(...)

The earliest stages of most dementias are difficult to distinguish from
aging and just packing your memory to the hilt. Nearly everyone I know who
is my age (62) comments about it, and the scientific evidence is that it's
completely normal. I noticed that I was getting forgetful about short-term
things when I was in my '40s.

Yup. I write 'task lists', now. Very helpful.

What Winston is talking about is much different. Like Leon, it would startle
me to learn that the diagnosis was correct, given the sharpness of mind
evidenced by Winston's posts. I sincerely hope they're being overly
pessimistic.

Thanks, Ed. Coming from you that is a huge deal.

You'll be pleased or greatly upset to learn that it hasn't affected my
daily life much at all. I drive around, shop, work on my projects just
like normal.

What I've learned to do about general forgetfulness is something that comes
easily to me these days: Forget about it. d8-)

Done!

(Sorry for hijacking your thread, Don.)

--Winston


Winston, I am very sorry to hear about this, but how exactly were you
diagnosed, then?

i

Ignoramus10155 wrote:

(...)

Winston, I am very sorry to hear about this, but how exactly were you
diagnosed, then?

My corporation hired a couple psychologists.
One talked with me over the phone and the other one
did an evaluation in his office.

That's what I got for performing my job well.
(Got a stellar review!)

Apparently my boss's boss decided this was a good
way to get rid of me.

--Winston

On 2011-04-14, Winston wrote:
Ignoramus10155 wrote:

(...)

Winston, I am very sorry to hear about this, but how exactly were you
diagnosed, then?

My corporation hired a couple psychologists. One talked with me
over the phone and the other one did an evaluation in his office.

That's what I got for performing my job well.
(Got a stellar review!)

Apparently my boss's boss decided this was a good
way to get rid of me.


The cynic in me is wondering if the evaluation, perhaps, was a clever
way to get rid of you.

i

Ignoramus10155 wrote:
On 2011-04-14, wrote:
Ignoramus10155 wrote:

(...)

Winston, I am very sorry to hear about this, but how exactly were you
diagnosed, then?

My corporation hired a couple psychologists. One talked with me
over the phone and the other one did an evaluation in his office.

That's what I got for performing my job well.
(Got a stellar review!)

Apparently my boss's boss decided this was a good
way to get rid of me.


The cynic in me is wondering if the evaluation, perhaps, was a clever
way to get rid of you.

I was thinking the same thing Iggy.

--Winston

On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 09:25:37 -0700, Winston
wrote:

Ignoramus10155 wrote:

(...)

Winston, I am very sorry to hear about this, but how exactly were you
diagnosed, then?

My corporation hired a couple psychologists.
One talked with me over the phone and the other one
did an evaluation in his office.

Psychologists paid by a corporation. Good God! Get an examination
and opinion from a real doctor!

Don Foreman wrote:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 09:25:37 -0700,
wrote:

Ignoramus10155 wrote:

(...)

Winston, I am very sorry to hear about this, but how exactly were you
diagnosed, then?

My corporation hired a couple psychologists.
One talked with me over the phone and the other one
did an evaluation in his office.

Psychologists paid by a corporation. Good God! Get an examination
and opinion from a real doctor!

I did. It took a whole day, but lunch in the
hospital cafeteria was cheap and very tasty!
(Fish fillet with a side of perfectly - steamed veggies.)

(After completing the tests, she claimed the earlier
evaluation was invalid, because I had secretly
recorded it.)

I looked over at her as she was reading a copy of my
employment review from the same outfit.

Eyes bugged out and a look of total surprise on her face.

Heh.

(If I disappear now, it isn't because I'm being snooty.)



--Winston

On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 16:10:23 -0500
Ignoramus10266 wrote:

snip
I am not convinced that mental exercise is really a cause of
postponing dementia, or a consequence of not having early stages of
it.

Are you familiar with the Nuns Study?

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/dis...heimers_study/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nun_Study

If not that ought to get you started

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On 2011-04-14, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 16:10:23 -0500
Ignoramus10266 wrote:

snip
I am not convinced that mental exercise is really a cause of
postponing dementia, or a consequence of not having early stages of
it.

Are you familiar with the Nuns Study?

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/dis...heimers_study/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nun_Study

If not that ought to get you started


I just started reading the Wikipedia article, and I am already
fascinated. There are so many things to read and so many unanswered
(for me) questions, but this is, clearly, a treasure trove.

I wonder what "linguistic density" means -- as this is something that
is, at least, measurable.

Thank you!

i

On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 14:46:28 -0500
Ignoramus10155 wrote:

snip
I wonder what "linguistic density" means -- as this is something that
is, at least, measurable.

Guessing... how many languages you are fluent (used loosely) in. I
suspect technical languages (like programming, ie Perl, C...) would also
apply.

When my Dad's sickness was well underway I was searching/reading a lot
more about it (he passed away ~5 years ago). I still read stuff about
it but I'm not actively pursuing it right now.

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 16:31:12 -0400
Leon Fisk wrote:

On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 14:46:28 -0500
Ignoramus10155 wrote:

snip
I wonder what "linguistic density" means -- as this is something that
is, at least, measurable.

Guessing... how many languages you are fluent (used loosely) in. I
suspect technical languages (like programming, ie Perl, C...) would also
apply.

My bad... it would be more like the number of words in your vocabulary.
I'm sure the more languages you are fluent in should help boost your
vocabulary, but that isn't really what they're implying (shrug).

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 16:49:27 -0400
Leon Fisk wrote:

On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 16:31:12 -0400
Leon Fisk wrote:

On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 14:46:28 -0500
Ignoramus10155 wrote:

snip
I wonder what "linguistic density" means -- as this is something that
is, at least, measurable.

Guessing... how many languages you are fluent (used loosely) in. I
suspect technical languages (like programming, ie Perl, C...) would also
apply.

My bad... it would be more like the number of words in your vocabulary.
I'm sure the more languages you are fluent in should help boost your
vocabulary, but that isn't really what they're implying (shrug).


Well, I'll beat this one to death... For a much better explanation, see:

http://diard.wordpress.com/2010/06/2...-good-writing/

Should hit the nail-on-the-head for you

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On 2011-04-14, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 14:46:28 -0500
Ignoramus10155 wrote:

snip
I wonder what "linguistic density" means -- as this is something that
is, at least, measurable.

Guessing... how many languages you are fluent (used loosely) in. I
suspect technical languages (like programming, ie Perl, C...) would also
apply.

I know RUssian, English, C++, perl, bash.

I read those websites about Alzheimer's that you recommended, and I
believe that by linguistic density, they mean sometihng other than the
numbe rof languages. They refer to "how many ideas are expressed per
10 words". I find this to be puzzling, as 10 words seems to be very
little room for many ideas, but I kind of get their idea.

When my Dad's sickness was well underway I was searching/reading a lot
more about it (he passed away ~5 years ago). I still read stuff about
it but I'm not actively pursuing it right now.

I find this to be kind of interesting, right now.

i

On 2011-04-14, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 16:49:27 -0400
Leon Fisk wrote:

On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 16:31:12 -0400
Leon Fisk wrote:

On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 14:46:28 -0500
Ignoramus10155 wrote:

snip
I wonder what "linguistic density" means -- as this is something that
is, at least, measurable.

Guessing... how many languages you are fluent (used loosely) in. I
suspect technical languages (like programming, ie Perl, C...) would also
apply.

My bad... it would be more like the number of words in your vocabulary.
I'm sure the more languages you are fluent in should help boost your
vocabulary, but that isn't really what they're implying (shrug).


Well, I'll beat this one to death... For a much better explanation, see:

http://diard.wordpress.com/2010/06/2...-good-writing/

Should hit the nail-on-the-head for you


Yes, a good explanation. I wonder if one could write a computer
analyzer of linguistic density.

i

On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 06:15:12 -0700, Winston
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 21:11:10 -0700,
wrote:

(...)

Yup. I haven't seen any issues beyond "Stage 2"
and it's been 39 months since my "Stage 5"
diagnosis.
I'm not a trained professional, so what do I know.

Farkin' gaddam DOCTORS!

Not their fault, Larry.

If my corporation told the docs I needed a hysterectomy
and breast augmentation, that would have been the
treatment plan.

Docs gotta eat too, ya know.

Huh? Since when are doctors under corporate stupidvision?
Corporate insurance agencies tell them what they'll pay for a given
surgery, but that's about it, innit?

Tons of doctors are retiring early due to Obamunism and the "fix" with
the drug moguls. Both the people and the doctors got taken. I think
the CONgresscritters did, too, but they also got some kickback for
their kitties.

--
The United States of America is the greatest, the
noblest and, in its original founding principles,
the only moral country in the history of the world.
-- Ayn Rand

On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 10:03:40 -0700, Winston
wrote:

Ignoramus10155 wrote:
On 2011-04-14, wrote:
Ignoramus10155 wrote:

(...)

Winston, I am very sorry to hear about this, but how exactly were you
diagnosed, then?

My corporation hired a couple psychologists. One talked with me
over the phone and the other one did an evaluation in his office.

That's what I got for performing my job well.
(Got a stellar review!)

Apparently my boss's boss decided this was a good
way to get rid of me.


The cynic in me is wondering if the evaluation, perhaps, was a clever
way to get rid of you.

I was thinking the same thing Iggy.

Shrink to Boss: "I read him lists of the 206 bones and 656 muscles in
the body and asked him to repeat them to me from the bottom up. He
couldn't do it, barely remembering five of each." Stage 5 Alzheimers!

--
The United States of America is the greatest, the
noblest and, in its original founding principles,
the only moral country in the history of the world.
-- Ayn Rand

On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 14:46:28 -0500, Ignoramus10155
wrote:

I wonder what "linguistic density" means -- as this is something that
is, at least, measurable.

It refers to how many concurrent languages you can cuss in, Ig.

--
The United States of America is the greatest, the
noblest and, in its original founding principles,
the only moral country in the history of the world.
-- Ayn Rand

Larry Jaques wrote:

(...)

Huh? Since when are doctors under corporate stupidvision?

Who isn't, Larry. Really.
There is no God but the Fortune 500.

Corporate insurance agencies tell them what they'll pay for a given
surgery, but that's about it, innit?

Nup. A corporation with several limitless slush funds can pay for
all kinds of dirty tricks without breaking a sweat.


--Winston

Larry Jaques wrote:

(...)

Shrink to Boss: "I read him lists of the 206 bones and 656 muscles in
the body and asked him to repeat them to me from the bottom up. He
couldn't do it, barely remembering five of each." Stage 5 Alzheimers!

That is pretty much the way it went.

Doc made me skip lunch. Read me a couple complicated and very boring
stories and asked me detailed questions about them.
Had to admit I didn't remember a thing. Bingo! Instant Senility.

--Winston

On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 21:21:47 -0700, Winston
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

(...)

Shrink to Boss: "I read him lists of the 206 bones and 656 muscles in
the body and asked him to repeat them to me from the bottom up. He
couldn't do it, barely remembering five of each." Stage 5 Alzheimers!

That is pretty much the way it went.

Doc made me skip lunch. Read me a couple complicated and very boring
stories and asked me detailed questions about them.
Had to admit I didn't remember a thing. Bingo! Instant Senility.

So, did they "terminate with cause" yet? That'd suck, unless you're
ready for retirement.


--
The United States of America is the greatest, the
noblest and, in its original founding principles,
the only moral country in the history of the world.
-- Ayn Rand