On Sat, 02 Apr 2011 14:13:27 -0500, Jon Elson
wrote:

Ignoramus6732 wrote:


Jim, I am not very strong when it comes to gas engines. Having seen
the video under load, what would you say is the problem that you are
seeing?
I'd much rather see and hear it in person than over a Youtube video, but
since you just had to de-gunk the carburetor, I'd sure lean in that
direction. So, maybe the idle circuit is working, but the power circuit is
still clogged and causing it to go lean at full throttle. If it ever
backfires through the carburetor, that is a sure sign of running too lean.
It is also possible the spark plug gap has burned wider, and under full
compression is blowing out the spark.

Jon

I agree..watch the sputs of smoke as the cylinders go dead during the
weld. Hell..plugs are cheap as are points. Around here..in the oil
patch..a full set of plugs and points is $10 at the Napa

Carby cleaner..set up a Strong mix of sea foam, Brinkmans or a host of
other similar chemicals and let the poor ******* idle for an hour, with
the occasional arc strike to get the Stuff into the high jets.

Btw...the engine on my picasa site..is the same F163. Valves are easy
to adjust by simply pulling the side cover and following tune up guide.

If that doesnt solve it..pull the head and check for burned valves. Its
a 30 minute project.

If Iggy cant find a tune up guide for this engine..Im sure Ive got it
around here somewhere.

Or try here...

http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Cat...ualsearch.aspx

Gunner


Gunner

--

"You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once."
Robert A. Heinlein

"Gunner Asch" wrote

I agree..watch the sputs of smoke as the cylinders go dead during the
weld. Hell..plugs are cheap as are points. Around here..in the oil
patch..a full set of plugs and points is $10 at the Napa

Carby cleaner..set up a Strong mix of sea foam, Brinkmans or a host of
other similar chemicals and let the poor ******* idle for an hour, with
the occasional arc strike to get the Stuff into the high jets.

Btw...the engine on my picasa site..is the same F163. Valves are easy
to adjust by simply pulling the side cover and following tune up guide.

If that doesnt solve it..pull the head and check for burned valves. Its
a 30 minute project.

If Iggy cant find a tune up guide for this engine..Im sure Ive got it
around here somewhere.

Or try here...

http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Cat...ualsearch.aspx

Gunner


Gunner

Gunner, how do you set top dead for the valves? Carefully with a small
piece of wire? Big socket on the main pulley nut? The puffs of white smoke
coming out now and again, highlighted by the arc brilliance, concern me that
there is oil coming out in the exhaust, and not just unburnt gas.

I am amazed that Iggy can take on such technical projects, but has problems
with an engine that's about as easy as a lawnmower to tune up and
troubleshoot.

Steve

Heart surgery pending?
www.cabgbypasssurgery.com

On 2011-04-03, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 02 Apr 2011 14:13:27 -0500, Jon Elson
wrote:

Ignoramus6732 wrote:


Jim, I am not very strong when it comes to gas engines. Having seen
the video under load, what would you say is the problem that you are
seeing?
I'd much rather see and hear it in person than over a Youtube video, but
since you just had to de-gunk the carburetor, I'd sure lean in that
direction. So, maybe the idle circuit is working, but the power circuit is
still clogged and causing it to go lean at full throttle. If it ever
backfires through the carburetor, that is a sure sign of running too lean.
It is also possible the spark plug gap has burned wider, and under full
compression is blowing out the spark.

Jon

I agree..watch the sputs of smoke as the cylinders go dead during the
weld. Hell..plugs are cheap as are points. Around here..in the oil
patch..a full set of plugs and points is $10 at the Napa

Would anyone hapen to know the part numbers for the plugs, wires and
points?

i
Carby cleaner..set up a Strong mix of sea foam, Brinkmans or a host of
other similar chemicals and let the poor ******* idle for an hour, with
the occasional arc strike to get the Stuff into the high jets.

Btw...the engine on my picasa site..is the same F163. Valves are easy
to adjust by simply pulling the side cover and following tune up guide.

If that doesnt solve it..pull the head and check for burned valves. Its
a 30 minute project.

If Iggy cant find a tune up guide for this engine..Im sure Ive got it
around here somewhere.

Or try here...

http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Cat...ualsearch.aspx

Gunner


Gunner

--

"You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once."
Robert A. Heinlein

On Sat, 2 Apr 2011 19:25:38 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote

I agree..watch the sputs of smoke as the cylinders go dead during the
weld. Hell..plugs are cheap as are points. Around here..in the oil
patch..a full set of plugs and points is $10 at the Napa

Carby cleaner..set up a Strong mix of sea foam, Brinkmans or a host of
other similar chemicals and let the poor ******* idle for an hour, with
the occasional arc strike to get the Stuff into the high jets.

Btw...the engine on my picasa site..is the same F163. Valves are easy
to adjust by simply pulling the side cover and following tune up guide.

If that doesnt solve it..pull the head and check for burned valves. Its
a 30 minute project.

If Iggy cant find a tune up guide for this engine..Im sure Ive got it
around here somewhere.

Or try here...

http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Cat...ualsearch.aspx

Gunner


Gunner

Gunner, how do you set top dead for the valves? Carefully with a small
piece of wire? Big socket on the main pulley nut? The puffs of white smoke
coming out now and again, highlighted by the arc brilliance, concern me that
there is oil coming out in the exhaust, and not just unburnt gas.

Pull #1 and stick in a dowel and turn the big nut on the end of the
engine. Just like finding top dead on any engine.

Based on the sound of the engine at idle..and at full RPM...there is a
problem..but Id think its not a biggy. And the top ends of those engines
are easy as hell to take apart to do Stuff with. Just a big L head
engine. Around here..the guys who run them in the Earl Patch...rebuild
em still assembled to the generator. A couple six packs, a radio,
somebody to watch em work and bull**** with, and they get em done on a
Saturday, start to finish along with a coat of paint.

I am amazed that Iggy can take on such technical projects, but has problems
with an engine that's about as easy as a lawnmower to tune up and
troubleshoot.

Different strokes for different folks. Iggy simply doesnt have
Experience and tends to be cautious about doing stuff he has never done
before. Which is why he ****s up so little stuff.

Other guys..dig in immediately doing stuff they never did before..and
**** stuff up.

Been there...done that....(hanging head in shame) Then I learned a bit
more..and so caution about reading through FIRST..then picking up the
first wrench....

Iggy MAY have bad valves (out of adjustment or burned..or both) or a
cracked ring (my sorta suspicion)...but even if something like that has
happened..its dirt easy to fix. But I didnt think so when I first got
that Miller 55G.....brrrr....



Gunner


Steve

Heart surgery pending?
www.cabgbypasssurgery.com


--

"You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once."
Robert A. Heinlein

Ignoramus6732 wrote:


Would anyone hapen to know the part numbers for the plugs, wires and
points?

This looks like a pretty good manual

http://igor.chudov.com/manuals/Conti...aul-Manual.pdf

It has diagrams for carb and distributor. The gap setting for plugs and
points is on page 45.

You might try cleaning and setting the gap for the plugs and points
they may not need to be replaced. The missing under load suggests the
point gap is too narrow or the plug gap too wide or a plug is fouled.
With the spark plug out of the engine and the ignition turned on you can
check the quality of the spark. You should be getting a nice blue/white
spark that can jump a gap of about 3/8" that fires when the points open.
You can time the engine by just slowly rotating the engine (in the
direction it runs) The spark should fire as it passes the TDC mark.
Since the engine is old and worn you might want to set the timing 1 or 2
degrees before it hits the DC mark. Page 47 shows how it is done with a
timing light but on these engines it can be done just as accurately by
turning the engine by hand.

-jim

"Ignoramus6732" wrote =


Would anyone hapen to know the part numbers for the plugs, wires and
points?

i

That would be the counter man at NAPA.

Steve

"jim" "sjedgingN0Sp"@m@mwt,net wrote in message
news


Ignoramus6732 wrote:


Would anyone hapen to know the part numbers for the plugs, wires and
points?

This looks like a pretty good manual

http://igor.chudov.com/manuals/Conti...aul-Manual.pdf

It has diagrams for carb and distributor. The gap setting for plugs and
points is on page 45.

You might try cleaning and setting the gap for the plugs and points
they may not need to be replaced. The missing under load suggests the
point gap is too narrow or the plug gap too wide or a plug is fouled.
With the spark plug out of the engine and the ignition turned on you can
check the quality of the spark. You should be getting a nice blue/white
spark that can jump a gap of about 3/8" that fires when the points open.
You can time the engine by just slowly rotating the engine (in the
direction it runs) The spark should fire as it passes the TDC mark.
Since the engine is old and worn you might want to set the timing 1 or 2
degrees before it hits the DC mark. Page 47 shows how it is done with a
timing light but on these engines it can be done just as accurately by
turning the engine by hand.

-jim

Some SA 200's have magnetos, some have distributors. In the case of a
distributor model, they can be set as easily as the VW Beetle engine. Put a
light tester on the wire coming out of the distributor, ground the other.
Turn the engine by hand until the timing mark lines up. 1/8" more, and the
light will either come on or go out. Tighten retaining bolt. Check again
to make sure it hasn't moved. Not familiar with magneto versions. A real
easy way to set VW ignitions, and most any other that has the external nut
on the distributor. May take two people, or one person twice as long. On
the VW, you can see the degree wheel and light at the same time.

Steve

Heart surgery pending?
www.cabgbypasssurgery.com

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 2 Apr 2011 19:25:38 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote

I agree..watch the sputs of smoke as the cylinders go dead during the
weld. Hell..plugs are cheap as are points. Around here..in the oil
patch..a full set of plugs and points is $10 at the Napa

Carby cleaner..set up a Strong mix of sea foam, Brinkmans or a host of
other similar chemicals and let the poor ******* idle for an hour, with
the occasional arc strike to get the Stuff into the high jets.

Btw...the engine on my picasa site..is the same F163. Valves are easy
to adjust by simply pulling the side cover and following tune up guide.

If that doesnt solve it..pull the head and check for burned valves. Its
a 30 minute project.

If Iggy cant find a tune up guide for this engine..Im sure Ive got it
around here somewhere.

Or try here...

http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Cat...ualsearch.aspx

Gunner


Gunner

Gunner, how do you set top dead for the valves? Carefully with a small
piece of wire? Big socket on the main pulley nut? The puffs of white
smoke
coming out now and again, highlighted by the arc brilliance, concern me
that
there is oil coming out in the exhaust, and not just unburnt gas.

Pull #1 and stick in a dowel and turn the big nut on the end of the
engine. Just like finding top dead on any engine.

Based on the sound of the engine at idle..and at full RPM...there is a
problem..but Id think its not a biggy. And the top ends of those engines
are easy as hell to take apart to do Stuff with. Just a big L head
engine. Around here..the guys who run them in the Earl Patch...rebuild
em still assembled to the generator. A couple six packs, a radio,
somebody to watch em work and bull**** with, and they get em done on a
Saturday, start to finish along with a coat of paint.

I am amazed that Iggy can take on such technical projects, but has
problems
with an engine that's about as easy as a lawnmower to tune up and
troubleshoot.

Different strokes for different folks. Iggy simply doesnt have
Experience and tends to be cautious about doing stuff he has never done
before. Which is why he ****s up so little stuff.

Other guys..dig in immediately doing stuff they never did before..and
**** stuff up.

Been there...done that....(hanging head in shame) Then I learned a bit
more..and so caution about reading through FIRST..then picking up the
first wrench....

Iggy MAY have bad valves (out of adjustment or burned..or both) or a
cracked ring (my sorta suspicion)...but even if something like that has
happened..its dirt easy to fix. But I didnt think so when I first got
that Miller 55G.....brrrr....



Gunner

That was my main concern when he seemed to want to get it running and keep
it running with exotic solvents rather than start at A and go from there. A
being check the oil.

From there, gas, spark, etc.

Not much sense in getting an engine started, running it up, puffing up over
it, and then hearing gaaaaaaaaaaack of it seizing .........................

Of course I never did that, but I did know a guy once .....................

Steve

Heart surgery pending?
www.cabgbypasssurgery.com

On Sun, 3 Apr 2011 18:17:21 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Ignoramus6732" wrote =


Would anyone hapen to know the part numbers for the plugs, wires and
points?

That would be the counter man at NAPA.

I was going to tell him that the numbers were 6 for plugs, 6 for
wires, and points come in pairs, but I didn't think it would be as
helpful as he was expecting, so I didn't.

--
Not merely an absence of noise, Real Silence begins
when a reasonable being withdraws from the noise in
order to find peace and order in his inner sanctuary.
-- Peter Minard

On 2011-04-04, Steve B wrote:

"jim" "sjedgingN0Sp"@m@mwt,net wrote in message
news


Ignoramus6732 wrote:


Would anyone hapen to know the part numbers for the plugs, wires and
points?

This looks like a pretty good manual

http://igor.chudov.com/manuals/Conti...aul-Manual.pdf

It has diagrams for carb and distributor. The gap setting for plugs and
points is on page 45.

You might try cleaning and setting the gap for the plugs and points
they may not need to be replaced. The missing under load suggests the
point gap is too narrow or the plug gap too wide or a plug is fouled.
With the spark plug out of the engine and the ignition turned on you can
check the quality of the spark. You should be getting a nice blue/white
spark that can jump a gap of about 3/8" that fires when the points open.
You can time the engine by just slowly rotating the engine (in the
direction it runs) The spark should fire as it passes the TDC mark.
Since the engine is old and worn you might want to set the timing 1 or 2
degrees before it hits the DC mark. Page 47 shows how it is done with a
timing light but on these engines it can be done just as accurately by
turning the engine by hand.

-jim

Some SA 200's have magnetos, some have distributors. In the case of a
distributor model, they can be set as easily as the VW Beetle engine. Put a
light tester on the wire coming out of the distributor, ground the other.
Turn the engine by hand until the timing mark lines up. 1/8" more, and the
light will either come on or go out. Tighten retaining bolt. Check again
to make sure it hasn't moved. Not familiar with magneto versions. A real
easy way to set VW ignitions, and most any other that has the external nut
on the distributor. May take two people, or one person twice as long. On
the VW, you can see the degree wheel and light at the same time.

Thanks. The bad news is that I found it today leaking fuel through the
oil bath air filter. So, something is not right.

I will pull it off ebay, and will do a complete carb rebuild and an
ignition system tuneup, as well.

i

Steve B wrote:


Some SA 200's have magnetos, some have distributors.

You can see the coil, so his has a distributor.

-jim

Ignoramus25197 wrote:


Thanks. The bad news is that I found it today leaking fuel through the
oil bath air filter. So, something is not right.

float needle is leaking. Does it have a filter between the tank and
carb? If it doesn't it would be a good idea to add an inline fuel filter
or the carb needle leaking will become a recurring problem.

-jim


I will pull it off ebay, and will do a complete carb rebuild and an
ignition system tuneup, as well.

i

On Sun, 03 Apr 2011 21:00:47 -0500, Ignoramus25197
wrote:

On 2011-04-04, Steve B wrote:

"jim" "sjedgingN0Sp"@m@mwt,net wrote in message
news


Ignoramus6732 wrote:


Would anyone hapen to know the part numbers for the plugs, wires and
points?

This looks like a pretty good manual

http://igor.chudov.com/manuals/Conti...aul-Manual.pdf

It has diagrams for carb and distributor. The gap setting for plugs and
points is on page 45.

You might try cleaning and setting the gap for the plugs and points
they may not need to be replaced. The missing under load suggests the
point gap is too narrow or the plug gap too wide or a plug is fouled.
With the spark plug out of the engine and the ignition turned on you can
check the quality of the spark. You should be getting a nice blue/white
spark that can jump a gap of about 3/8" that fires when the points open.
You can time the engine by just slowly rotating the engine (in the
direction it runs) The spark should fire as it passes the TDC mark.
Since the engine is old and worn you might want to set the timing 1 or 2
degrees before it hits the DC mark. Page 47 shows how it is done with a
timing light but on these engines it can be done just as accurately by
turning the engine by hand.

-jim

Some SA 200's have magnetos, some have distributors. In the case of a
distributor model, they can be set as easily as the VW Beetle engine. Put a
light tester on the wire coming out of the distributor, ground the other.
Turn the engine by hand until the timing mark lines up. 1/8" more, and the
light will either come on or go out. Tighten retaining bolt. Check again
to make sure it hasn't moved. Not familiar with magneto versions. A real
easy way to set VW ignitions, and most any other that has the external nut
on the distributor. May take two people, or one person twice as long. On
the VW, you can see the degree wheel and light at the same time.

Thanks. The bad news is that I found it today leaking fuel through the
oil bath air filter. So, something is not right.

I will pull it off ebay, and will do a complete carb rebuild and an
ignition system tuneup, as well.

i


Thats hardly bad news. Shrug..its cheap enough and you will learn
something valuable.

Gunner

--

"You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once."
Robert A. Heinlein

On 2011-04-04, jim "sjedgingN0Sp"@m wrote:


Ignoramus25197 wrote:


Thanks. The bad news is that I found it today leaking fuel through the
oil bath air filter. So, something is not right.

float needle is leaking. Does it have a filter between the tank and
carb? If it doesn't it would be a good idea to add an inline fuel filter
or the carb needle leaking will become a recurring problem.

It does have that filter. Regardless, there is so much crud in the
system, it needs a thorough cleaning.

i
-jim


I will pull it off ebay, and will do a complete carb rebuild and an
ignition system tuneup, as well.

i

On 2011-04-04, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 03 Apr 2011 21:00:47 -0500, Ignoramus25197
wrote:

On 2011-04-04, Steve B wrote:

"jim" "sjedgingN0Sp"@m@mwt,net wrote in message
news

Ignoramus6732 wrote:


Would anyone hapen to know the part numbers for the plugs, wires and
points?

This looks like a pretty good manual

http://igor.chudov.com/manuals/Conti...aul-Manual.pdf

It has diagrams for carb and distributor. The gap setting for plugs and
points is on page 45.

You might try cleaning and setting the gap for the plugs and points
they may not need to be replaced. The missing under load suggests the
point gap is too narrow or the plug gap too wide or a plug is fouled.
With the spark plug out of the engine and the ignition turned on you can
check the quality of the spark. You should be getting a nice blue/white
spark that can jump a gap of about 3/8" that fires when the points open.
You can time the engine by just slowly rotating the engine (in the
direction it runs) The spark should fire as it passes the TDC mark.
Since the engine is old and worn you might want to set the timing 1 or 2
degrees before it hits the DC mark. Page 47 shows how it is done with a
timing light but on these engines it can be done just as accurately by
turning the engine by hand.

-jim

Some SA 200's have magnetos, some have distributors. In the case of a
distributor model, they can be set as easily as the VW Beetle engine. Put a
light tester on the wire coming out of the distributor, ground the other.
Turn the engine by hand until the timing mark lines up. 1/8" more, and the
light will either come on or go out. Tighten retaining bolt. Check again
to make sure it hasn't moved. Not familiar with magneto versions. A real
easy way to set VW ignitions, and most any other that has the external nut
on the distributor. May take two people, or one person twice as long. On
the VW, you can see the degree wheel and light at the same time.

Thanks. The bad news is that I found it today leaking fuel through the
oil bath air filter. So, something is not right.

I will pull it off ebay, and will do a complete carb rebuild and an
ignition system tuneup, as well.

i


Thats hardly bad news. Shrug..its cheap enough and you will learn
something valuable.

Yes, I will get all the parts this week and will do a rebuild next
weekend.

i

"jim" "sjedgingN0Sp"@m@mwt,net wrote in message
.. .


Ignoramus25197 wrote:


Thanks. The bad news is that I found it today leaking fuel through the
oil bath air filter. So, something is not right.

float needle is leaking. Does it have a filter between the tank and
carb? If it doesn't it would be a good idea to add an inline fuel filter
or the carb needle leaking will become a recurring problem.

-jim


I will pull it off ebay, and will do a complete carb rebuild and an
ignition system tuneup, as well.

i

When dealing with these old machines, it is good to do a full tune up on
them unless you are just flipping it quickly. It is advisable to check the
generator portion before dumping copious amounts on the engine. I don't
know what a rebuild on the generator would cost, or in some cases if they
could even do them depending on condition.

Redoing the engine would include new plugs, (maybe a set of wires),
distributor parts, oil, oil filter, gas filter, carb check/rebuild, engine
flush, electronics check, new air filter (or oil in the oil bath versions),
gas tank cleaning possibly even rolling it with ball bearings and grit,
battery, battery connections, thermostat check, compression check, belts,
hoses, clamps, alternator check, starter brush check, and a few other things
I probably forgot.

Painting is optional, but if you got the hood off, and the radiator and cowl
off, you might as well spend the money for a gallon or two of Rustoleum and
make it look a whole lot better. Faceplates are relatively cheap, too.

If one is going to keep the machine, as I was intending, it is a very good
investment. If one is going to flip it, it will sell faster and for far
more with all that stuff "right". Go to ebay and look at the difference
between those that have been cleaned up, and those that look like they've
been kept in the barn with a leaky roof. I painted mine, put new fenders on
it, new lights, E class tires, everything. I have $1,000 in it, and have
turned down $2,000. As soon as I have the shed built to hold it, I'll
repaint it, and probably put a new faceplate on it. If I had not pulled a
boner with the radiator, it would have cost $350 less, but the radiator may
have gone out eventually anyway.

http://billswelderrepair.com/Pre-Owned_Equip.html is a site where you can
see what a SA 200 that is properly restored/rebuilt is selling for. It
might be what makes a guy get interested in small engines.

If you can buy it right, if it's in working shape, and if you can redo it
without spending too much, there's decent money to be made on these
machines. Looks like Bill's Welding Repairs is doing okay.

Steve

Heart surgery pending?
www.cabgbypasssurgery.com