Greetings all.

Turning once again to the wisdom of the group for advice on a
peripherally
metalworking topic:

Does anyone have any experience/advice dewarping a cast-iron casting?

I have a cast iron part (radiator bolster from a Farmall cub) that had
water
freeze in it and bulge & crack it (previous owner's indiscretion). He
also
brazed up the crack, but didn't work the bulge back out. The problem
with the bulge, is that it throws the mounting surface for the
radiator out
of plane. If there was a little more meat there, I'd just mill the
mounting
surface down and be done with it, but that would leave very little
metal
in the mounting flange at the peak of the bulge.

So... I know one can shrink sheet metal a couple different ways, and
I seem to remember seeing someone bend an I-beam by placing periodic
welds along the flanges and letting the weld shrinkage pull a radius
into
it. I'm wondering if I can play a similar game with cast iron. The
radiator
mounting flange requires little structural strength, so I don't have
to worry
too much about weakening it by heating/local heating differential.

If there's no success to be had along those lines, my fallback is to
mill it
down, then braze on a .25in raiser flange that will put the entire
radiator
..25 too high, but at least leave enough metal to seal, and be properly
aligned.

Any thoughs/ideas/suggestions most greatly appreciated,
Will Ray

willray wrote:
Greetings all.

Turning once again to the wisdom of the group for advice on a
peripherally
metalworking topic:

Does anyone have any experience/advice dewarping a cast-iron casting?

I have a cast iron part (radiator bolster from a Farmall cub) that had
water
freeze in it and bulge & crack it (previous owner's indiscretion). He
also
brazed up the crack, but didn't work the bulge back out. The problem
with the bulge, is that it throws the mounting surface for the
radiator out
of plane. If there was a little more meat there, I'd just mill the
mounting
surface down and be done with it, but that would leave very little
metal
in the mounting flange at the peak of the bulge.

So... I know one can shrink sheet metal a couple different ways, and
I seem to remember seeing someone bend an I-beam by placing periodic
welds along the flanges and letting the weld shrinkage pull a radius
into
it. I'm wondering if I can play a similar game with cast iron. The
radiator
mounting flange requires little structural strength, so I don't have
to worry
too much about weakening it by heating/local heating differential.

If there's no success to be had along those lines, my fallback is to
mill it
down, then braze on a .25in raiser flange that will put the entire
radiator
.25 too high, but at least leave enough metal to seal, and be properly
aligned.

Any thoughs/ideas/suggestions most greatly appreciated,
Will Ray


Cast iron doesn't like to move. It likes to break. If you could look
inside that bolster you would likely find that the edges of the split
area are cracked as well. What I would probably do myself would be to
cut out the bulge and braze or weld in a new chunk of iron or steel. Cut
out the old part so you have a tapered edge. Cut the new one with a
taper to match and then grind a reverse taper on the top edge to give
you a place to fill with brass or weld (you could silver solder it as
well IF you keep it a tight fit.

--
Steve W.

On Sat, 6 Sep 2008 07:20:38 -0700 (PDT), willray
wrote:

So... I know one can shrink sheet metal a couple different ways, and
I seem to remember seeing someone bend an I-beam by placing periodic
welds along the flanges and letting the weld shrinkage pull a radius
into
it. I'm wondering if I can play a similar game with cast iron.

You can certainly play this game with cast iron, but the big question
is how far can you go without cracking the casting again. The key to
success in welding cast iron is to minimize residual stresses in the
repaired piece. You're proposing to intentionally stress the casting.

If there's no success to be had along those lines, my fallback is to
mill it
down, then braze on a .25in raiser flange that will put the entire
radiator
.25 too high, but at least leave enough metal to seal, and be properly
aligned.

Any thoughs/ideas/suggestions most greatly appreciated,

I'd build up the warped surface with braze, cool the casting very
slowly by burying it in wood ashes, vermiculite, or other suitable
insulation, then machine. TIG brazing with silicon bronze (Everdur)
rod would be my choice of technique. Silicon bronze isn't as fluid as
normal brazing rod, it doesn't spit zinc, and is much stronger. For
me, the placement or the braze is easier with TIG.

Are you a new owner of the Cub? I have a 1953 Super A, the Cub's big
brother.

--
Ned Simmons

How about making a new casting? There a guy up around Brandon, MN, Mn
that does one-off jobs like this all the time. His place is called "The
Hobby Shop". You UPS him the part, he quotes it, you agree or disagree.
If you agree, you get the new one in a few days, ready to machine. If
you disagree, he UPS's the part back to you. He has done good work for
me and my friends.

The Hobby Shop
Raymond P. Olsen, Owner
14260 Pheasant Dr. N.W.
Brandon, MN 56315
tel.: 1-320-834-2476, 1-320-524-2118

Pete Stanaitis
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
willray wrote:
Greetings all.

Turning once again to the wisdom of the group for advice on a
peripherally
metalworking topic:

Does anyone have any experience/advice dewarping a cast-iron casting?

I have a cast iron part (radiator bolster from a Farmall cub) that had
water
freeze in it and bulge & crack it (previous owner's indiscretion). He
also
brazed up the crack, but didn't work the bulge back out. The problem
with the bulge, is that it throws the mounting surface for the
radiator out
of plane. If there was a little more meat there, I'd just mill the
mounting
surface down and be done with it, but that would leave very little
metal
in the mounting flange at the peak of the bulge.

So... I know one can shrink sheet metal a couple different ways, and
I seem to remember seeing someone bend an I-beam by placing periodic
welds along the flanges and letting the weld shrinkage pull a radius
into
it. I'm wondering if I can play a similar game with cast iron. The
radiator
mounting flange requires little structural strength, so I don't have
to worry
too much about weakening it by heating/local heating differential.

If there's no success to be had along those lines, my fallback is to
mill it
down, then braze on a .25in raiser flange that will put the entire
radiator
.25 too high, but at least leave enough metal to seal, and be properly
aligned.

Any thoughs/ideas/suggestions most greatly appreciated,
Will Ray

"willray" wrote in message
...
Greetings all.

Turning once again to the wisdom of the group for advice on a
peripherally
metalworking topic:

Does anyone have any experience/advice dewarping a cast-iron casting?

I have a cast iron part (radiator bolster from a Farmall cub) that had
water
freeze in it and bulge & crack it (previous owner's indiscretion). He
also
brazed up the crack, but didn't work the bulge back out. The problem
with the bulge, is that it throws the mounting surface for the
radiator out
of plane. If there was a little more meat there, I'd just mill the
mounting
surface down and be done with it, but that would leave very little
metal
in the mounting flange at the peak of the bulge.

So... I know one can shrink sheet metal a couple different ways, and
I seem to remember seeing someone bend an I-beam by placing periodic
welds along the flanges and letting the weld shrinkage pull a radius
into
it. I'm wondering if I can play a similar game with cast iron. The
radiator
mounting flange requires little structural strength, so I don't have
to worry
too much about weakening it by heating/local heating differential.

If there's no success to be had along those lines, my fallback is to
mill it
down, then braze on a .25in raiser flange that will put the entire
radiator
.25 too high, but at least leave enough metal to seal, and be properly
aligned.

Any thoughs/ideas/suggestions most greatly appreciated,
Will Ray

Perhaps it's not an option but I have seen quite a few of these castings for
sale on E-Bay and at various tractor parts places. I do not recall the
asking prices.

Don Young (3 Cubs)

On Sat, 6 Sep 2008 07:20:38 -0700 (PDT), willray
wrote:

Greetings all.

Turning once again to the wisdom of the group for advice on a
peripherally
metalworking topic:

Does anyone have any experience/advice dewarping a cast-iron casting?

I have a cast iron part (radiator bolster from a Farmall cub) that had
water
freeze in it and bulge & crack it (previous owner's indiscretion). He
also
brazed up the crack, but didn't work the bulge back out. The problem
with the bulge, is that it throws the mounting surface for the

snip

Any thoughs/ideas/suggestions most greatly appreciated,
Will Ray

you could always heat the casting up until it was red hot and plastic
and give the offening area a tap back with an old hammer.

"Stealth Pilot" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 6 Sep 2008 07:20:38 -0700 (PDT), willray
wrote:

Greetings all.

Turning once again to the wisdom of the group for advice on a
peripherally
metalworking topic:

Does anyone have any experience/advice dewarping a cast-iron casting?

I have a cast iron part (radiator bolster from a Farmall cub) that had
water
freeze in it and bulge & crack it (previous owner's indiscretion). He
also
brazed up the crack, but didn't work the bulge back out. The problem
with the bulge, is that it throws the mounting surface for the

snip

Any thoughs/ideas/suggestions most greatly appreciated,
Will Ray

you could always heat the casting up until it was red hot and plastic
and give the offening area a tap back with an old hammer.

No, no, no! Cast iron is very hot-short. What you're describing is the very
method that small-time metalcasters use to break up old engine blocks and
cylinder heads for re-casting. When you reach the right temperature, c.i.
breaks up like rubbery Plaster of Paris.

When you have a crack or a warp in c.i., the smart thing to do is what
others have recommended he get a new casting. If you're really stuck and
need to repair a cracked piece, you're in for trouble unless you're very
lucky or very good (lucky is better). But a warped casting is a goner in
most cases.

(BTW, using old engine blocks is not recommended, if they're from the
leaded-gas era. They're illegal for use in most commercial casting for that
reason.)

--
Ed Huntress

On Sun, 7 Sep 2008 10:20:43 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


(BTW, using old engine blocks is not recommended, if they're from the
leaded-gas era. They're illegal for use in most commercial casting for that
reason.)

What happens Ed? Is there that much lead absorbed into the cast iron
that it's a hazard to the workers at the foundry? hazard to the
environment?? If you can't remelt it, what do you do with those old
engine blocks?

RWL

GeoLane at PTD dot NET wrote in message
...
On Sun, 7 Sep 2008 10:20:43 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


(BTW, using old engine blocks is not recommended, if they're from the
leaded-gas era. They're illegal for use in most commercial casting for
that
reason.)

What happens Ed? Is there that much lead absorbed into the cast iron
that it's a hazard to the workers at the foundry? hazard to the
environment??

Unless the foundry has the proper controls, the lead goes into the air. And
I saw some figures on it years ago. The amount of lead released is very
high.

If you can't remelt it, what do you do with those old
engine blocks?

Good question. My understanding, which is maybe 15 years behind, is that
there are larger foundries equipped with stack-capture equipment that can
use those blocks. IIRC, the recommendation was to send those blocks to the
properly equipped foundries.

--
Ed Huntress

Ed Huntress wrote:
GeoLane at PTD dot NET wrote in message
...

On Sun, 7 Sep 2008 10:20:43 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:



(BTW, using old engine blocks is not recommended, if they're from the
leaded-gas era. They're illegal for use in most commercial casting for
that
reason.)

What happens Ed? Is there that much lead absorbed into the cast iron
that it's a hazard to the workers at the foundry? hazard to the
environment??


Unless the foundry has the proper controls, the lead goes into the air. And
I saw some figures on it years ago. The amount of lead released is very
high.


If you can't remelt it, what do you do with those old
engine blocks?


Good question. My understanding, which is maybe 15 years behind, is that
there are larger foundries equipped with stack-capture equipment that can
use those blocks. IIRC, the recommendation was to send those blocks to the
properly equipped foundries.

--
Ed Huntress




China has all the good state of the art recovery stuff. They got it from
India.

John

Ed Huntress wrote:

GeoLane at PTD dot NET wrote in message
...

On Sun, 7 Sep 2008 10:20:43 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:



(BTW, using old engine blocks is not recommended, if they're from the
leaded-gas era. They're illegal for use in most commercial casting for
that
reason.)

What happens Ed? Is there that much lead absorbed into the cast iron
that it's a hazard to the workers at the foundry? hazard to the
environment??


Unless the foundry has the proper controls, the lead goes into the air. And
I saw some figures on it years ago. The amount of lead released is very
high.


If you can't remelt it, what do you do with those old
engine blocks?


Good question. My understanding, which is maybe 15 years behind, is that
there are larger foundries equipped with stack-capture equipment that can
use those blocks. IIRC, the recommendation was to send those blocks to the
properly equipped foundries.

--
Ed Huntress


The foundrys have a perodic testing for lead contamination. Don't even
mention the word "Lead" if you are in a foundry. They get as little
paronoid about it but rightly so. If they get a positive test they have
a trememdous cleanup bill to contend with.


John

"Ed Huntress" wrote:

(BTW, using old engine blocks is not recommended, if they're from the
leaded-gas era. They're illegal for use in most commercial casting for that
reason.)


How much lead is in 12L14? I tried googling it and didn't come up with a percentage. We
used to turn a lot of it and we didn't segregate either chips or drops.

Any studies in the public domain about lead contanination of engine compents?

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

"john" wrote in message
...


Ed Huntress wrote:

GeoLane at PTD dot NET wrote in message
...

On Sun, 7 Sep 2008 10:20:43 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:



(BTW, using old engine blocks is not recommended, if they're from the
leaded-gas era. They're illegal for use in most commercial casting for
that
reason.)

What happens Ed? Is there that much lead absorbed into the cast iron
that it's a hazard to the workers at the foundry? hazard to the
environment??


Unless the foundry has the proper controls, the lead goes into the air.
And I saw some figures on it years ago. The amount of lead released is
very high.


If you can't remelt it, what do you do with those old
engine blocks?


Good question. My understanding, which is maybe 15 years behind, is that
there are larger foundries equipped with stack-capture equipment that can
use those blocks. IIRC, the recommendation was to send those blocks to
the properly equipped foundries.

--
Ed Huntress


The foundrys have a perodic testing for lead contamination. Don't even
mention the word "Lead" if you are in a foundry. They get as little
paronoid about it but rightly so. If they get a positive test they have a
trememdous cleanup bill to contend with.


John

Ah, yes, I remember reading that. I guess it caused them a lot of trouble
when the scrap was all mixed and there were those old engine blocks in the
mix.

I suppose that most of those blocks have worked their way through the waste
stream by now, and it must be less of a problem. Is that correct?

--
Ed Huntress

"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Ed Huntress" wrote:

(BTW, using old engine blocks is not recommended, if they're from the
leaded-gas era. They're illegal for use in most commercial casting for
that
reason.)


How much lead is in 12L14? I tried googling it and didn't come up with a
percentage. We
used to turn a lot of it and we didn't segregate either chips or drops.

Certified 12L14 can range from 0.15% to 0.35% lead. I'm surprised the
allowable range has that much spread but I see it online from various
sources.


Any studies in the public domain about lead contanination of engine
compents?

There must be, but my information came from AFS or ASTM, back when I was an
editor on metalworking magazines. I probably got it all from their press
releases.

Look up AFS (American Foundrymen's Society) online and see what you find.
They're the most likely source. The EPA is a possibility, too.

--
Ed Huntress

Ed Huntress wrote:

"john" wrote in message
...


Ed Huntress wrote:


GeoLane at PTD dot NET wrote in message
...


On Sun, 7 Sep 2008 10:20:43 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:




(BTW, using old engine blocks is not recommended, if they're from the
leaded-gas era. They're illegal for use in most commercial casting for
that
reason.)

What happens Ed? Is there that much lead absorbed into the cast iron
that it's a hazard to the workers at the foundry? hazard to the
environment??


Unless the foundry has the proper controls, the lead goes into the air.
And I saw some figures on it years ago. The amount of lead released is
very high.



If you can't remelt it, what do you do with those old
engine blocks?


Good question. My understanding, which is maybe 15 years behind, is that
there are larger foundries equipped with stack-capture equipment that can
use those blocks. IIRC, the recommendation was to send those blocks to
the properly equipped foundries.

--
Ed Huntress


The foundrys have a perodic testing for lead contamination. Don't even
mention the word "Lead" if you are in a foundry. They get as little
paronoid about it but rightly so. If they get a positive test they have a
trememdous cleanup bill to contend with.


John


Ah, yes, I remember reading that. I guess it caused them a lot of trouble
when the scrap was all mixed and there were those old engine blocks in the
mix.

I suppose that most of those blocks have worked their way through the waste
stream by now, and it must be less of a problem. Is that correct?

--
Ed Huntress



The foundrys that I have contact with like only nice clean # 1 scrap
with no paint or atttachments. They get mostly drops from fabricators
or stamping houses. Its nice if I need a small piece of angle or bar. I
swap them for round bar drops that they use for chills.

For all that don't know what a chill is, it is a block of metal put in
the mould to draw out heat from the molten metal so it cools faster at
that point.

John

On Sep 6, 11:48*am, Ned Simmons wrote:


So... * I know one can shrink sheet metal a couple different ways, and
I seem to remember seeing someone bend an I-beam by placing periodic
welds along the flanges and letting the weld shrinkage pull a radius
into
it. * I'm wondering if I can play a similar game with cast iron.

You're proposing to intentionally stress the casting.

Yeah, something like that :-)

my fallback is to mill it down, then braze on a .25in raiser...
Any thoughs/ideas/suggestions most greatly appreciated,

I'd build up the warped surface with braze, cool the casting very
slowly by burying it in wood ashes, vermiculite, or other suitable
insulation, then machine. TIG brazing with silicon bronze (Everdur)
rod would be my choice of technique. Silicon bronze isn't as fluid as
normal brazing rod, it doesn't spit zinc, and is much stronger. For
me, the placement or the braze is easier with TIG.

One of these days, I need to learn to TIG. I bought what should be a
pretty nice TIG setup, but just have never had time to put it together
to
learn. Most days I get around ok with a Ox/Ac torch, but I can see
where TIG's real-hot, right-now capabilities would be a real bonus
when
working on something on a large casting.

I was thinking along the "braze in a flange" lines, rather than the
build it up lines, because I wanted to strengthen the top of the
casting,
and kinda liked the sound of a .25 x .75 steel strap tying the top
of the bolster together. Something I /hadn't/ thought at all about,
was
building up the inside of the bolster, so that I can actually just
mill
it flat on the outside and have it in the right place. It's
depressingly ugly in
there right now, but maybe I can sandblast it well enough to get brass
to
stick.

Are you a new owner of the Cub? I have a 1953 Super A, the Cub's big
brother.

Yup. New to the cub.

I'm not unfamiliar with random old iron (and have secretly lusted
after a
Super A for a while), but I'd never thought much about, or of, the cub
until a recent friend found himself in more need of cash than some of
the junk
in his barn, and while I didn't really need the junk, I had some some
spare
cash and figured one can never have too many tractors.

So far, I'm thinking he got the better end of the deal...

Thanks much,
Will

On Sep 6, 12:56*pm, spaco wrote:
How about making a new casting? *There a guy up around Brandon, MN, Mn
that does one-off jobs like this all the time. *His place is called "The
Hobby Shop". *You UPS him the part, he quotes it, you agree or disagree..
*If you agree, you get the new one in a few days, ready to machine. *If
you disagree, he UPS's the part back to you. *He has done good work for
me and my friends.

The Hobby Shop
* *Raymond P. Olsen, Owner
* *14260 Pheasant Dr. N.W.
* *Brandon, MN 56315
* *tel.: 1-320-834-2476, 1-320-524-2118


I suspect it'd be financially ruinous to try to replicate the casting
(especially
when they do come up intact, from cubs being parted out on eBay with
some regularity - this thing has multiple internal passages with
complex
geometries). However, I have a project I've been looking for exactly
that
service for, for some time. I've never heard of this shop, and am
delighted
to have the information.

Thanks!
Will Ray

On Sep 6, 10:45*pm, "Don Young" wrote:

Perhaps it's not an option but I have seen quite a few of these castings for
sale on E-Bay and at various tractor parts places. I do not recall the
asking prices.

Don Young (3 Cubs)

Ah, of course it's an option, but I'm a cheap, stubborn idiot :-)

Will

"willray" wrote in message
...
On Sep 6, 10:45 pm, "Don Young" wrote:

Perhaps it's not an option but I have seen quite a few of these castings
for
sale on E-Bay and at various tractor parts places. I do not recall the
asking prices.

Don Young (3 Cubs)

Ah, of course it's an option, but I'm a cheap, stubborn idiot :-)

Will
I can certainly relate to that. I do not like to heat old cast iron very
much. If the strength is not a problem or you can reinforce the repair, you
can do a lot with epoxy. You can get JB Weld in a large size and I use a lot
of it. Epoxy and some strategic reinforcing (think straps and bolts) can
make workable repairs on many seemingly unsalvageable parts. Be aware that
it does run a lot during curing so you may have to dam it up with duct tape
or something. A cheap sandblaster helps a lot for getting it to stick well.

Don Young


Don Young