Any suggestions as to where ALL these people will be going TO?

As for transportation logistics, the blotched exodus from Houston comes
to mind.

I think this year's hurricane season will be an interesting one to deal
with.

TMT


New Orleans to be emptied for next storm: officials By Ned Randolph Tue
Mar 28, 6:53 PM ET

Everyone in New Orleans must evacuate the low-lying city the next time
a hurricane threatens and no shelters will be offered for those who
stay, officials said on Tuesday.

Hoping to avoid a repeat of the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina when
thousands struggled to survive after ignoring evacuation orders, they
said planes, trains and buses would be used to move people out and the
Superdome football stadium would not be open for refuge.

"Today the population stands around 200,000 to 225,000 people in New
Orleans," said Orleans Parish Homeland Security Advisor Terry Ebbert.
"Our goal is to ensure that we create an environment where it makes
more sense to leave than to stay,"

"We want all 225,000 people to get out of the city," he said. Before
Katrina, New Orleans had nearly half a million residents, but many who
fled the storm have not returned.

Ebbert spoke at a news conference after state and local officials met
with Federal Emergency Management Agency acting director David Paulison
to discuss plans for the next hurricane season, which starts June 1.

Officials plan to have only small shelters available for police and
rescue workers and will not open the Superdome, the site of mass misery
when stranded Katrina victims crowded into the dank and damaged stadium
and waited days for rescue.

Ebbert said evacuations could come early and often this year because
the levee system protecting New Orleans was weakened by Katrina and
there are thousands of people now living in FEMA-provided travel
trailers.

Residents will be ordered out not just for hurricanes, but for tropical
storms, too, he said.

Paulison estimated that by June 1, 100,000 families along the U.S. Gulf
Coast will be in trailers, which are vulnerable in high winds.

He said FEMA, which has been heavily criticized for its response to
Katrina, would do whatever state and local officials cannot do to
prepare for hurricanes.

"The locals and state are putting together the process of identifying
what they can and cannot do. We're looking at where we can fit in to
help," he said.

On 28 Mar 2006 19:38:12 -0800, "Too_Many_Tools"
wrote:

Any suggestions as to where ALL these people will be going TO?

Wherever they can find gainful employment. It is what I did 30 years
ago. Exodus. Into parts unknown (to me). And an unpredictable
future. Not something to be taken lightly. It is serious business.

At least these people have FEMA backup. When I left for parts
unknown, I had nothing other than what would fit into my compact
vehicle, and a few bucks in my pocket. No safety net whatsoever.

First I headed East, and that didn't work out. Then I headed West,
and made it this far (Illinois) before I found work. Have been here
ever since. Winters suck, but then, so do summers in the South.

Exodus. It is the way out. It is a bit scary. But many of these
people have a safety net I never had.

I'm willing to take in a few, if they're 21, blonde, aren't taking
illegal drugs, have nice firm tits and a tight ass, and a face I don't
have to put a bag over. They can do *housekeeping* for food and
lodging. If they keep the place clean, they can stay as long as they
want...long enough to attend community college, and set out on their
own.

Lg


As for transportation logistics, the blotched exodus from Houston comes
to mind.

I think this year's hurricane season will be an interesting one to deal
with.

TMT


New Orleans to be emptied for next storm: officials By Ned Randolph Tue
Mar 28, 6:53 PM ET

Everyone in New Orleans must evacuate the low-lying city the next time
a hurricane threatens and no shelters will be offered for those who
stay, officials said on Tuesday.

Hoping to avoid a repeat of the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina when
thousands struggled to survive after ignoring evacuation orders, they
said planes, trains and buses would be used to move people out and the
Superdome football stadium would not be open for refuge.

"Today the population stands around 200,000 to 225,000 people in New
Orleans," said Orleans Parish Homeland Security Advisor Terry Ebbert.
"Our goal is to ensure that we create an environment where it makes
more sense to leave than to stay,"

"We want all 225,000 people to get out of the city," he said. Before
Katrina, New Orleans had nearly half a million residents, but many who
fled the storm have not returned.

Ebbert spoke at a news conference after state and local officials met
with Federal Emergency Management Agency acting director David Paulison
to discuss plans for the next hurricane season, which starts June 1.

Officials plan to have only small shelters available for police and
rescue workers and will not open the Superdome, the site of mass misery
when stranded Katrina victims crowded into the dank and damaged stadium
and waited days for rescue.

Ebbert said evacuations could come early and often this year because
the levee system protecting New Orleans was weakened by Katrina and
there are thousands of people now living in FEMA-provided travel
trailers.

Residents will be ordered out not just for hurricanes, but for tropical
storms, too, he said.

Paulison estimated that by June 1, 100,000 families along the U.S. Gulf
Coast will be in trailers, which are vulnerable in high winds.

He said FEMA, which has been heavily criticized for its response to
Katrina, would do whatever state and local officials cannot do to
prepare for hurricanes.

"The locals and state are putting together the process of identifying
what they can and cannot do. We're looking at where we can fit in to
help," he said.

On 28 Mar 2006 19:38:12 -0800, "Too_Many_Tools"
wrote:
Any suggestions as to where ALL these people will be going TO?

As for transportation logistics, the blotched exodus from Houston comes
to mind.

I think this year's hurricane season will be an interesting one to deal
with.

TMT


New Orleans to be emptied for next storm: officials By Ned Randolph Tue
Mar 28, 6:53 PM ET

Everyone in New Orleans must evacuate the low-lying city the next time
a hurricane threatens and no shelters will be offered for those who
stay, officials said on Tuesday.
snip
==============================
I continue to be impressed by the wisdom of our elders. In this
case "Hope for the best and plan for the worst."

In this particular case I can only offer sympathy but no advice
to all those who live in the bed of a river and then worry about
flooding.


Unka George
(George McDuffee)

I sincerely believe . . . banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies,
and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding,
is but swindling futurity on a large scale.
Thomas Jefferson (1743–1826), U.S. president.
Letter, 28 May 1816, to political philosopher and Senator John Taylor

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
oups.com...
Any suggestions as to where ALL these people will be going TO?

As for transportation logistics, the blotched exodus from Houston comes
to mind.

I think this year's hurricane season will be an interesting one to deal
with.

TMT


Why is it that there are mass evacuations of coastal areas on a regular
basis (North Carolina and Florida in particular) where storm is coming,
folks move away, storm hits, folks move back and starting cleaning up and
the ONLY place this has become an enormous fiasco is in New Orleans? Not
the cleanup part, but the evacuation part. And, Yes, when storms like
Andrew, Hugo, Fran, Rita, etc. were coming at least as many people had to be
moved.

Steve.

"SteveF" wrote in message
...

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
oups.com...
Any suggestions as to where ALL these people will be going TO?

As for transportation logistics, the blotched exodus from Houston comes
to mind.

I think this year's hurricane season will be an interesting one to deal
with.

TMT


Why is it that there are mass evacuations of coastal areas on a regular
basis (North Carolina and Florida in particular) where storm is coming,
folks move away, storm hits, folks move back and starting cleaning up and
the ONLY place this has become an enormous fiasco is in New Orleans? Not
the cleanup part, but the evacuation part. And, Yes, when storms like
Andrew, Hugo, Fran, Rita, etc. were coming at least as many people had to
be moved.

Steve.


The Municipal gummint + the Big-Money People + Network Newsies = fiasco.

The Evacuation Fiasco:

1. Mayor Nagin wanted to show his "leadership" in a crisis in hopes of
future political advancement.
2. Instead of safeguarding the people - and a large fleet of school and
transit busses - by sending them out of harm's way, Mayor Nagin encouraged
the residents to gather at the SuperDome and the Community Center.
3. Instead of evacuating the sick, injured, and aged, Mayor Nagin ignored
them.
4. When it became apparent that Mayor Nagin hadn't a clue as to what was
going on, the State tried to step in and play "Hero".

The Housing Fiasco:

1. The Big-Money People live on the "high ground".
2. FEMA won't let Mobile Homes be placed in Flood Plains.
3. Mayor Nagin - who wants the BMP's cash - tells FEMA to put Mobile Homes
where the flooded houses were. (In the Flood Plain!)
4. [Go to step 2]

Add to that the factor that a large percentage of the *working* population
of Nawlins found jobs elsewhere.

FWIW, the folks in the small towns surrounding Nawlins have their acts
together and, for the most part, are pretty well back to normal.

On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 12:37:46 -0500, "SteveF"
wrote:


"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
roups.com...
Any suggestions as to where ALL these people will be going TO?

As for transportation logistics, the blotched exodus from Houston comes
to mind.

I think this year's hurricane season will be an interesting one to deal
with.

TMT


Why is it that there are mass evacuations of coastal areas on a regular
basis (North Carolina and Florida in particular) where storm is coming,
folks move away, storm hits, folks move back and starting cleaning up and
the ONLY place this has become an enormous fiasco is in New Orleans? Not
the cleanup part, but the evacuation part. And, Yes, when storms like
Andrew, Hugo, Fran, Rita, etc. were coming at least as many people had to be
moved.

Steve.

=================
One reason [other than incompetence and lack of transport ] is
the terrain. There are a very limited number of high volume ways
in/out of the "Big Easy" proper, while there is a extensive road
net with many alternate/detour routes in the other areas.
IMNSHO, any large metro area with restricted entry/exits [e.r.
New York] is a death trap waiting to be sprung on its
inhabitants.


Unka George
(George McDuffee)

I sincerely believe . . . banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies,
and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding,
is but swindling futurity on a large scale.
Thomas Jefferson (1743–1826), U.S. president.
Letter, 28 May 1816, to political philosopher and Senator John Taylor

In article , F. George
McDuffee wrote:

=================
One reason [other than incompetence and lack of transport ] is
the terrain. There are a very limited number of high volume ways
in/out of the "Big Easy" proper, while there is a extensive road
net with many alternate/detour routes in the other areas.
IMNSHO, any large metro area with restricted entry/exits [e.r.
New York] is a death trap waiting to be sprung on its
inhabitants.

The main highways out of the city--Interstate 10 going west and east
and the highway across the lake--were largely empty on Sunday afternoon
and evening, the day before Katrina made landfall.

This was shown many times on CNN, Fox, and other channels. Webcams
confirmed it, as well as reporter coverage.

Further, my sister was (and is) living in NO and says that anyone who
wanted to leave would not have faced any traffic jams on the highways
out of the city.

The oft-cited point that the residents of the "Lower Ninth Ward" and
similar ghetto districts "did not have transportation out" is absurd.
The large number of flooded cars shown in the aerial coverage of the
flooded areas shows that plenty of cars were available...and probably
most of them were in running condition.

No, people didn't leave for a simple reason: they figured they could
ride out yet another hurricane, just as their parents and grandparents
rode out Betsy, Camille, etc.

It is not the job of our government, spending our taxpayer money, to
protect people when they will not protect themselves.


--Tim May

PrecisionMechanicaL wrote:

The earth can only have settled since then....gravity, soil compaction--the
basic laws of nature.

He needs to somehow please explainto us how the levee system has somehow
been "weakened" beyond it's previous condition..

water logging of previously dry soils.

Aren't some of the levee just concrete panels as oppossed to earthen
dam/banks walls?

I don't know about them, but my guest house and guest bedrooms have already
been reserved for the thousands of illegal aliens that the liberals want to
come into this country........

YEAH, I know!!!!!

The liberals are blaming the greedy conservative business owners who are
looking for cheap labor.......but, if you dig deep enough, it's the libs
who are screaming about the illegal aliens' "rights" ........

.......rights that are assigned to American citizens - not everybody in the
entire world!

If you're not a legal American citizen, you have no claim to American
rights......

......no more than I can expect to go to Canada, become ill or injured, and
expect their socialized medicine to care for me.

Canadian citizens are protected by the rights guaranteed by the Canadian
government - including free medicine........

American citizens are protected by the rights guaranteed to American
citizens - including the various Constitutional amendments.......

Non-citizens - especially those who are in either country illegally - do
NOT have any claim on any particular "rights" guaranteed by that
government.

Should ANY alien - illegal or legal - be allowed to vote in American
elections, and determine who will lead our giovernment?

Just try, as an American, getting involved in Mexican politics.

* wrote:
I don't know about them, but my guest house and guest bedrooms have already
been reserved for the thousands of illegal aliens that the liberals want to
come into this country........

YEAH, I know!!!!!

The liberals are blaming the greedy conservative business owners who are
looking for cheap labor.......but, if you dig deep enough, it's the libs
who are screaming about the illegal aliens' "rights" ........

......rights that are assigned to American citizens - not everybody in the
entire world!
Hey dullard, the terms "inalienable rights" are found in the
Constitution of the United States. They refer to all mankind. These two
words destroyed the moral presumptions of European monarchs and Roman
Prelates in the year 1775. Today they deny religious fanatics and
megalomaniacs cornerstone needed to destroy individual liberty. Those
who refuse to defend and aggressively expand the concept these words
suggest condemn themselves to eternal war, disease and famine.

* wrote:

If you're not a legal American citizen, you have no claim to American
rights......

Correction: "If you're not a legal American citizen, inside the USA,
then you have no claim to American rights"

Seems a few folks don't understand that either.

"The liberals are blaming the greedy conservative business owners who
are
looking for cheap labor.......but, if you dig deep enough, it's the
libs
who are screaming about the illegal aliens' "rights" ........ "

Yet another Republican in denial....seems to be alot of that going
around lately.

Whether you or any other person who supports the GOP wants to deny it,
the Republicans are in power (for the moment) and the state of
immigration and the laws being passed are their responsibility. In
addition, the laws that are on the books are not being enforced on
their watch. You can moan and whine all you want about liberals,
Clinton and the pimple on your ass...but the truth is that the ball in
in the Republican court and to walk the talk. Considering that 9/11
occurred on Bush's watch and we as a country have yet to see any
significant action on securing the borders since then speaks volumes as
to the real agenda of this Administration.

When the next 9/11 occurs, I firmly believe that the lack of secure
borders will be major reason why it happened.

And the responsibility for the deaths of Americans from the next
terrorist act will be President Bush.

TMT

On 29 Mar 2006 18:19:53 -0800, "Too_Many_Tools"
wrote:


in the Republican court and to walk the talk. Considering that 9/11
occurred on Bush's watch and we as a country have yet to see any
significant action on securing the borders since then speaks volumes as
to the real agenda of this Administration.

eh?
I thought the actions in the homelands of the problem were to obviate
the need for the great wall of china around the US.
while a lot of people decry the war it seems to me to have halted the
terrorist snowball.
ymmv.
Stealth Pilot

* wrote:

I don't know about them, but my guest house and guest bedrooms have already
been reserved for the thousands of illegal aliens that the liberals want to
come into this country........

YEAH, I know!!!!!

The liberals are blaming the greedy conservative business owners who are
looking for cheap labor.......but, if you dig deep enough, it's the libs
who are screaming about the illegal aliens' "rights" ........

......rights that are assigned to American citizens - not everybody in the
entire world!

If you're not a legal American citizen, you have no claim to American
rights......

.....no more than I can expect to go to Canada, become ill or injured, and
expect their socialized medicine to care for me.

Canadian citizens are protected by the rights guaranteed by the Canadian
government - including free medicine........

American citizens are protected by the rights guaranteed to American
citizens - including the various Constitutional amendments.......

Non-citizens - especially those who are in either country illegally - do
NOT have any claim on any particular "rights" guaranteed by that
government.

Actually, they do, but you are too stupid to know it. For instance, as
a matter of law, citizens and non-citizens have the same legal rights if
they are arrested for a crime.



Should ANY alien - illegal or legal - be allowed to vote in American
elections, and determine who will lead our giovernment?

Just try, as an American, getting involved in Mexican politics.

On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 14:33:17 GMT, Lamont Cranston
wrote:
===========
Actually, they do, but you are too stupid to know it. For instance, as
a matter of law, citizens and non-citizens have the same legal rights if
they are arrested for a crime.
=============
Actually you are both right but just about different aspects.

Until recently, anyone charged with a crime in the US was
entitled to an attorney, could not be tortured into a confession
or to implicate others, etc. In the name of state security
citizens and non-citizens alike can now be held incommunicado for
extended periods and "intensified interrogation techniques" used.
In this sense, the citizen and non-citizen, even the illegal
alien are equal.

There are however certain rights that are [theoretically] limited
to citizens such as voting, serving on juries and a passport. In
this sense the citizen and non-citizen are different.




Unka George
(George McDuffee)

....and at the end of the fight is a tombstone white
with the name of the late deceased, and
the epitaph drear:
“A Fool lies here, who tried to hustle the East.”

Rudyard Kipling The Naulahka, ch. 5, heading (1892).

"eh?
I thought the actions in the homelands of the problem were to obviate
the need for the great wall of china around the US.
while a lot of people decry the war it seems to me to have halted the
terrorist snowball.
ymmv.
Stealth Pilot "

I think you need to pay attention....all tests that our government have
conducted to demonstrate secure borders have indicated that they are
wide open. You can smuggle in anything you want....people, drugs, guns,
bombs. Officials from every department had stated that the borders need
to be tightened but the promised money from Washington has not been
forthcoming. More than one official has gone on record noting they
fully expect another 9/11 and do not understand why it has not happened
yet. My own guess...the enemy has the element of surprise and likely
already has the next act of terror already laid out to occur....and is
waiting for the right moment. In all likelihood, they laid the
groundwork and the implementation before 9/11 to take advantage of our
even more lax security that existed then....again under the Bush
Administration.

The border...especially the Mexican border...is a 9/11 waiting to
happen.

TMT

In article ,
Tim May wrote:

The main highways out of the city--Interstate 10 going west and east
and the highway across the lake--were largely empty on Sunday afternoon
and evening, the day before Katrina made landfall.

Bzzzt! No! Wrong! Thanks for playing, though.

I was on those highways (I-10 East) on the Sunday afternoon before the
hurricane. They were completely jam packed. It took six hours to go the
first thirty miles or so to the Mississippi border.

--
Jedd Haas - Artist - New Orleans, LA
http://www.gallerytungsten.com
http://www.epsno.com

In article 01c6537e$6f929560$c8a0c3d8@race,
"*" wrote:

I don't know about them, but my guest house and guest bedrooms have already
been reserved for the thousands of illegal aliens that the liberals want to
come into this country........

YEAH, I know!!!!!

The liberals are blaming the greedy conservative business owners who are
looking for cheap labor.......but, if you dig deep enough, it's the libs
who are screaming about the illegal aliens' "rights" ........

......rights that are assigned to American citizens - not everybody in the
entire world!

If you're not a legal American citizen, you have no claim to American
rights......

.....no more than I can expect to go to Canada, become ill or injured, and
expect their socialized medicine to care for me.

Canadian citizens are protected by the rights guaranteed by the Canadian
government - including free medicine........

American citizens are protected by the rights guaranteed to American
citizens - including the various Constitutional amendments.......

Non-citizens - especially those who are in either country illegally - do
NOT have any claim on any particular "rights" guaranteed by that
government.

Should ANY alien - illegal or legal - be allowed to vote in American
elections, and determine who will lead our giovernment?

Just try, as an American, getting involved in Mexican politics.

You come across like the typical anonymous inbred asshole who's been
having problems with immigrants ever since you came to this country.

--
Jedd Haas - Artist - New Orleans, LA
http://www.gallerytungsten.com
http://www.epsno.com

This just in...you better plan on your "New Orleans friends" staying
awhile.....a long while.

And oh yeah....they will need some more of your money.

Too bad we are spending it in Iraq when it is desparately needed here
in the good old United States....remind me again which Party is
spending our tax money where?

TMT

New Orleans Recovery Could Take 25 Years By LARA JAKES JORDAN,
Associated Press Writer

A full recovery in New Orleans could take 25 years as homeowners,
businesses and tourists are coaxed back to the city devastated by
Hurricane Katrina, the Bush administration's Gulf Coast recovery
coordinator said Thursday.

In an interview with The Associated Press, Don Powell said that much of
the city's rebirth will hinge on factors he said were "out of our
control," including restoring housing, ensuring safety and encouraging
robust investment by the private sector.

"We kind of want it to happen overnight, or I do, but it's going to
take some time," Powell said. "This could be five to 25 years for it
all to fit into place."

Powell also said the Army Corps of Engineers now estimates it will cost
an additional $5.9 billion to repair levees enough to fully protect and
insure nearly 1.1 million residents of the greater New Orleans area.

That is in addition to the $3.5 billion the Bush administration has so
far sought to bring the levees back to at least their pre-Katrina
levels by June 1, the start of the 2006 hurricane season.

Powell said the Corps recently told him the administration must commit
to spending as much as $5.9 billion more before it could fully certify
the levees, as needed to issue flood maps that determine insurance
rates and allow rebuilding to begin.

Powell said he does not know how many more federal dollars Washington
will commit to the region, or whether some of the money will come from
state and local governments. "We haven't decided what to ask for,"
Powell said.

But he said that decision and the release of new flood maps would
likely happen in a "relatively short period of time - in a matter of
days."

Over the next 60 days, Powell said, the Corps will be strengthening
levees and building storm-proof pumping stations and flood gates to
close certain parts of New Orleans' canals in the event of a major
storm.

"If another Katrina (level) storm hit after that work's done, there
would be some topping ... but the flooding would be all manageable,"
Powell said. "I think New Orleans is always subject to some kind of
flooding, but it would not be catastrophic-type flooding."

In Baton Rouge, Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco called the nearly
tripling of the estimated cost of levee repairs "an outrage." She
demanded that Congress come up with the money. She said the $3.5
billion investment so far has focused primarily on rebuilding the flood
protection on the east bank of New Orleans.

Without the additional cash, Blanco said, the Lower Ninth Ward and St.
Bernard and Plaquemines parishes likely wouldn't receive the levee
repairs needed to give them the protection they had before Katrina.

"Obviously all sections will not be secure," she said.

The White House so far has asked for $108 billion in Gulf Coast relief
and recovery aid, all but $19 billion of which has been approved by
Congress. The remainder is under consideration by lawmakers. The new
levee costs are not included in that spending pot, Powell said.

In a conference call with reporters later, Army Corps of Engineers Maj.
Gen. Don Riley said the new costs are the result of ongoing repairs and
studies of the levees.

"As we learn, we will adjust our methodology and our estimate," Riley
said. "To do it properly, it takes time. Our main interest is in
getting this right for the people of New Orleans."

What the storm-ravaged region will look like in upcoming years is
largely up to state and local officials, Powell said, though the U.S.
Department of Housing and Urban Development will have authority to
"tweak" some of the housing plans.

The four parishes that make up New Orleans and its immediate suburbs
have been waiting for the Federal Emergency Management Agency to issue
the flood maps for months.

___

Associated Press Writers Brett Martel in New Orleans and Melinda
Deslatte in Baton Rouge contributed to this story.

On 30 Mar 2006 16:11:30 -0800, "Too_Many_Tools"
wrote:

This just in...you better plan on your "New Orleans friends" staying
awhile.....a long while.

And oh yeah....they will need some more of your money.

Too bad we are spending it in Iraq when it is desparately needed here
in the good old United States....remind me again which Party is
spending our tax money where?

TMT

New Orleans Recovery Could Take 25 Years By LARA JAKES JORDAN,
Associated Press Writer

A full recovery in New Orleans could take 25 years as homeowners,
businesses and tourists are coaxed back to the city devastated by
Hurricane Katrina, the Bush administration's Gulf Coast recovery
coordinator said Thursday.

In an interview with The Associated Press, Don Powell said that much of
the city's rebirth will hinge on factors he said were "out of our
control," including restoring housing, ensuring safety and encouraging
robust investment by the private sector.

"We kind of want it to happen overnight, or I do, but it's going to
take some time," Powell said. "This could be five to 25 years for it
all to fit into place."

Powell also said the Army Corps of Engineers now estimates it will cost
an additional $5.9 billion to repair levees enough to fully protect and
insure nearly 1.1 million residents of the greater New Orleans area.

That is in addition to the $3.5 billion the Bush administration has so
far sought to bring the levees back to at least their pre-Katrina
levels by June 1, the start of the 2006 hurricane season.

Powell said the Corps recently told him the administration must commit
to spending as much as $5.9 billion more before it could fully certify
the levees, as needed to issue flood maps that determine insurance
rates and allow rebuilding to begin.

Powell said he does not know how many more federal dollars Washington
will commit to the region, or whether some of the money will come from
state and local governments. "We haven't decided what to ask for,"
Powell said.

But he said that decision and the release of new flood maps would
likely happen in a "relatively short period of time - in a matter of
days."

Over the next 60 days, Powell said, the Corps will be strengthening
levees and building storm-proof pumping stations and flood gates to
close certain parts of New Orleans' canals in the event of a major
storm.

"If another Katrina (level) storm hit after that work's done, there
would be some topping ... but the flooding would be all manageable,"
Powell said. "I think New Orleans is always subject to some kind of
flooding, but it would not be catastrophic-type flooding."

In Baton Rouge, Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco called the nearly
tripling of the estimated cost of levee repairs "an outrage." She
demanded that Congress come up with the money. She said the $3.5
billion investment so far has focused primarily on rebuilding the flood
protection on the east bank of New Orleans.

Without the additional cash, Blanco said, the Lower Ninth Ward and St.
Bernard and Plaquemines parishes likely wouldn't receive the levee
repairs needed to give them the protection they had before Katrina.

"Obviously all sections will not be secure," she said.

The White House so far has asked for $108 billion in Gulf Coast relief
and recovery aid, all but $19 billion of which has been approved by
Congress. The remainder is under consideration by lawmakers. The new
levee costs are not included in that spending pot, Powell said.

In a conference call with reporters later, Army Corps of Engineers Maj.
Gen. Don Riley said the new costs are the result of ongoing repairs and
studies of the levees.

"As we learn, we will adjust our methodology and our estimate," Riley
said. "To do it properly, it takes time. Our main interest is in
getting this right for the people of New Orleans."

What the storm-ravaged region will look like in upcoming years is
largely up to state and local officials, Powell said, though the U.S.
Department of Housing and Urban Development will have authority to
"tweak" some of the housing plans.

The four parishes that make up New Orleans and its immediate suburbs
have been waiting for the Federal Emergency Management Agency to issue
the flood maps for months.

___

Associated Press Writers Brett Martel in New Orleans and Melinda
Deslatte in Baton Rouge contributed to this story.

So if I read this correctly, they're going to try to rebuild the
slums. Only THEY aren't going to do anything more than upgrade the
levee system, and *private investment* is supposed to take over from
there.

They want to *get this right for the people of New Orleans.* Ehm, the
people of New Orleans are gone, bud. WHO is going to buy a new house
in that flood basin? Enough people to justify $108 billion? How much
is that per capita of the people who are expected to rehabitate the
place?

Somebody in Washington has his head up his ass so far he can see out
his navel.

On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 18:41:14 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
wrote:
snip
Somebody in Washington has his head up his ass so far he can see out
his navel.
snip
Only from the viewpoint of the typical citizen [who will have to
pay the bill] with just a little common sense.

Now put yourself in the position of the career bureaucrat,
possibly at GSA supergrade, with congressmen and possibly the
Prez calling, urging a particular action. Put yourself in the
position of an elected official who took and will take large sums
of money from the contracting, financial and other companies who
will make billions.

It makes perfect sense -- just not for the majority of people who
have to pay for it or the welfare of the Republic.



Unka George
(George McDuffee)

There is something to be said for government by a great aristocracy
which has furnished leaders to the nation in peace and war for generations;
even a democrat like myself must admit this.

But there is absolutely nothing to be said for government by a plutocracy,
for government by men very powerful in certain lines and gifted with the "money touch,"
but with ideals which in their essence are merely those of so many glorified pawnbrokers.

Theodore Roosevelt (1858-1919), U.S. Republican (later Progressive) politician, president. Letter, 15 Nov. 1913.

On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 19:50:06 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 18:41:14 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
wrote:
snip
Somebody in Washington has his head up his ass so far he can see out
his navel.
snip
Only from the viewpoint of the typical citizen [who will have to
pay the bill] with just a little common sense.

Now put yourself in the position of the career bureaucrat,
possibly at GSA supergrade, with congressmen and possibly the
Prez calling, urging a particular action. Put yourself in the
position of an elected official who took and will take large sums
of money from the contracting, financial and other companies who
will make billions.

It makes perfect sense -- just not for the majority of people who
have to pay for it or the welfare of the Republic.

================================================== =======
Call the USA government "Disasters R US"

There's money to be made. Stolen actually, or fiat currency to be
printed at the US Mint.

Has Fed Gov always been this destructive and usurious?

Need a shot in the arm for the Military Industrial Complex? Easy.
Let's start a war.

And these Tsunamis are a godsend for Washington, as they get to choose
who gets the contracts for rebuilding.

I say it's time to get out the ropes. We're going to need a lot of
it.
================================================== ======

Unka George
(George McDuffee)

There is something to be said for government by a great aristocracy
which has furnished leaders to the nation in peace and war for generations;
even a democrat like myself must admit this.

But there is absolutely nothing to be said for government by a plutocracy,
for government by men very powerful in certain lines and gifted with the "money touch,"
but with ideals which in their essence are merely those of so many glorified pawnbrokers.

Theodore Roosevelt (1858-1919), U.S. Republican (later Progressive) politician, president. Letter, 15 Nov. 1913.

On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 20:09:05 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
wrote:

On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 18:41:14 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
wrote:
snip
Somebody in Washington has his head up his ass so far he can see out
his navel.
snip
Only from the viewpoint of the typical citizen [who will have to
pay the bill] with just a little common sense.

Now put yourself in the position of the career bureaucrat,
possibly at GSA supergrade, with congressmen and possibly the
Prez calling, urging a particular action. Put yourself in the
position of an elected official who took and will take large sums
of money from the contracting, financial and other companies who
will make billions.

It makes perfect sense -- just not for the majority of people who
have to pay for it or the welfare of the Republic.

================================================= ========
Call the USA government "Disasters R US"

There's money to be made. Stolen actually, or fiat currency to be
printed at the US Mint.

Has Fed Gov always been this destructive and usurious?

Need a shot in the arm for the Military Industrial Complex? Easy.
Let's start a war.

And these Tsunamis are a godsend for Washington, as they get to choose
who gets the contracts for rebuilding.

I say it's time to get out the ropes. We're going to need a lot of
it.
================================================= =======
Its an old joke but politicians are a lot like cockroaches. Its
not what they carry off but what they get into and spoil...

In a more serious way, "if God did not want them sheared, He
would not have made them sheep." While the observation by JFK "A
rising tide lifts all boats," and by extension "an ebbing tide
lowers all boats" remained true, things could [and did] run
fairly well on "auto pilot."

The problems started when our MBA geniuses figured out ways to de
link corporate prosperity from citizen/national prosperity, and
indeed enable corporate gain from citizen/national loss (thus
nullifying Adam Smith's "invisible hand"), while continuing to
"thump the tub" for capitalism. In large part this is the result
of NAFTA/GATT/WTO and the rise in trans-national corporations.
The irony is that in many cases this new internationalism was/is
promoted, aided, and abetted by the plutocrat corporate
management [not owners, stock holders have minimal to no say in
corporate operations] on one hand and the left/liberal
politicians on the other. About the only thing they have in
common is the desire to take other peoples money and spend it.

This has become institutionalized, and too many people are
getting [and have gotten] too rich from "business as usual" for
any change. From my perspective, our only hope of correction is
to refuse to cooperate with the existing corporate management and
venal politicians when the economic/political "ship hits the
sand" and the cries go out that "we're all in the together,"
"it's time for shared sacrifices," yada-yada-yada, [yah --
right!!]

Just at the individual must generally "hit bottom" before an
intervention has any chance of success, so to it appears that a
major crisis is required before any substantive/systemic change
in governance, both corporate and state, will be possible.
FWIW, many "interventions" are *NOT* successful and the person of
concern continues drinking [or what ever] and dies.

We would all do well to review what happened to the Gothic
kingdoms in Iberia and how long these lasted. It can happen (and
appears to be happening) here....






Unka George
(George McDuffee)

There is something to be said for government by a great aristocracy
which has furnished leaders to the nation in peace and war for generations;
even a democrat like myself must admit this.

But there is absolutely nothing to be said for government by a plutocracy,
for government by men very powerful in certain lines and gifted with the "money touch,"
but with ideals which in their essence are merely those of so many glorified pawnbrokers.

Theodore Roosevelt (1858-1919), U.S. Republican (later Progressive) politician, president. Letter, 15 Nov. 1913.

On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 09:58:13 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 20:09:05 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
wrote:

On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 18:41:14 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
wrote:
snip
Somebody in Washington has his head up his ass so far he can see out
his navel.
snip
Only from the viewpoint of the typical citizen [who will have to
pay the bill] with just a little common sense.

Now put yourself in the position of the career bureaucrat,
possibly at GSA supergrade, with congressmen and possibly the
Prez calling, urging a particular action. Put yourself in the
position of an elected official who took and will take large sums
of money from the contracting, financial and other companies who
will make billions.

It makes perfect sense -- just not for the majority of people who
have to pay for it or the welfare of the Republic.

================================================ =========
Call the USA government "Disasters R US"

There's money to be made. Stolen actually, or fiat currency to be
printed at the US Mint.

Has Fed Gov always been this destructive and usurious?

Need a shot in the arm for the Military Industrial Complex? Easy.
Let's start a war.

And these Tsunamis are a godsend for Washington, as they get to choose
who gets the contracts for rebuilding.

I say it's time to get out the ropes. We're going to need a lot of
it.
================================================ ========
Its an old joke but politicians are a lot like cockroaches. Its
not what they carry off but what they get into and spoil...

In a more serious way, "if God did not want them sheared, He
would not have made them sheep." While the observation by JFK "A
rising tide lifts all boats," and by extension "an ebbing tide
lowers all boats" remained true, things could [and did] run
fairly well on "auto pilot."

The problems started when our MBA geniuses figured out ways to de
link corporate prosperity from citizen/national prosperity, and
indeed enable corporate gain from citizen/national loss (thus
nullifying Adam Smith's "invisible hand"), while continuing to
"thump the tub" for capitalism. In large part this is the result
of NAFTA/GATT/WTO and the rise in trans-national corporations.
The irony is that in many cases this new internationalism was/is
promoted, aided, and abetted by the plutocrat corporate
management [not owners, stock holders have minimal to no say in
corporate operations] on one hand and the left/liberal
politicians on the other. About the only thing they have in
common is the desire to take other peoples money and spend it.

This has become institutionalized, and too many people are
getting [and have gotten] too rich from "business as usual" for
any change. From my perspective, our only hope of correction is
to refuse to cooperate with the existing corporate management and
venal politicians when the economic/political "ship hits the
sand" and the cries go out that "we're all in the together,"
"it's time for shared sacrifices," yada-yada-yada, [yah --
right!!]

Just at the individual must generally "hit bottom" before an
intervention has any chance of success, so to it appears that a
major crisis is required before any substantive/systemic change
in governance, both corporate and state, will be possible.
FWIW, many "interventions" are *NOT* successful and the person of
concern continues drinking [or what ever] and dies.

We would all do well to review what happened to the Gothic
kingdoms in Iberia and how long these lasted. It can happen (and
appears to be happening) here....

================================================== ===================

I think that Fed Gov HAS HIT BOTTOM. Only they don't seem to be
resurfacing, but rather whaling away as they drown in their own
effluent.

Look at the National Debt. It is beyond comprehension, yet we
continue to spend money like a drunken sailor at a french whorehouse.
And the rape of the land goes on unabated, as Federal Lands are now
being turned into profit centers for private development. Of course
the motive behind this is cash. It is all about money, and little to
do with freedom.

I need a GOVERNMENT PERMIT! to go camping on Federal Land??? Yes, I'm
afraid so. That's a major violation, camping without a permit. As
millions of aliens of the illegal kind continue to flow into this
country unabated to the point we now have an estimated 14 MILLION of
them amongst us. Sucking dry the coffers that should be providing for
our own citizens.

This is global in nature. It is happening in most European countries
as well. Only the dictatorships such as China can control such
infiltration. So in an ironic twist, the sheep want More Government
to solve the problems that have been ignored ( medical care; a full
50% of children in the USA have none ), better schools, but the
addiction to foreign fuel has taken over the minds of our leaders and
they are on a global quest to capture what they can get.

Remember it was FUEL, or rather the scarcity of it, that purportedly
caused Japan to enter the War in the 1940's.

Nevertheless, the US still has the largesse to give away billions in
economic aid ( gifts ) to foreign countries. In the name of
*humanity*

While the right hand is giving, the left is taking, with the big green
war machine.

From where I sit, it looks like we're truly ****ed. You know there is
no way Iraq can stand as a democracy without permanent US supervision.
We're now building bases over there for permanent occupation. It will
take 25 to 50 years before Iraq settles down and becomes independent
again, by which time I will be long gone. And maybe that's a good
thing, because at the rate things are going, there won't be a USA in
another 25 to 50 years.

Lg
misc.survivalism
================================================== ============

Unka George
(George McDuffee)

There is something to be said for government by a great aristocracy
which has furnished leaders to the nation in peace and war for generations;
even a democrat like myself must admit this.

But there is absolutely nothing to be said for government by a plutocracy,
for government by men very powerful in certain lines and gifted with the "money touch,"
but with ideals which in their essence are merely those of so many glorified pawnbrokers.

Theodore Roosevelt (1858-1919), U.S. Republican (later Progressive) politician, president. Letter, 15 Nov. 1913.

In OT- Can They Come Stay With You? on Thu, 30 Mar 2006
14:33:17 GMT, by Lamont Cranston, we read:

* wrote:

I don't know about them, but my guest house and guest bedrooms have already
been reserved for the thousands of illegal aliens that the liberals want to
come into this country........

YEAH, I know!!!!!

The liberals are blaming the greedy conservative business owners who are
looking for cheap labor.......but, if you dig deep enough, it's the libs
who are screaming about the illegal aliens' "rights" ........

......rights that are assigned to American citizens - not everybody in the
entire world!

If you're not a legal American citizen, you have no claim to American
rights......

.....no more than I can expect to go to Canada, become ill or injured, and
expect their socialized medicine to care for me.

Canadian citizens are protected by the rights guaranteed by the Canadian
government - including free medicine........

American citizens are protected by the rights guaranteed to American
citizens - including the various Constitutional amendments.......

Non-citizens - especially those who are in either country illegally - do
NOT have any claim on any particular "rights" guaranteed by that
government.

Actually, they do, but you are too stupid to know it. For instance, as
a matter of law, citizens and non-citizens have the same legal rights if
they are arrested for a crime.

That depends on the type crime.

Legal rights are granted aliens by statute, not to be confused
with the American Bill of Rights.

Aliens may be deported or tried according to federal and state
policies and law.


Should ANY alien - illegal or legal - be allowed to vote in American
elections, and determine who will lead our giovernment?

Just try, as an American, getting involved in Mexican politics.


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In OT- Can They Come Stay With You? on Thu, 30 Mar 2006
09:16:45 -0600, by F. George McDuffee, we read:

On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 14:33:17 GMT, Lamont Cranston
wrote:
===========
Actually, they do, but you are too stupid to know it. For instance, as
a matter of law, citizens and non-citizens have the same legal rights if
they are arrested for a crime.
=============
Actually you are both right but just about different aspects.

Until recently, anyone charged with a crime in the US was
entitled to an attorney, could not be tortured into a confession
or to implicate others, etc. In the name of state security
citizens and non-citizens alike can now be held incommunicado for
extended periods and "intensified interrogation techniques" used.
In this sense, the citizen and non-citizen, even the illegal
alien are equal.

There are however certain rights that are [theoretically] limited
to citizens such as voting, serving on juries and a passport. In
this sense the citizen and non-citizen are different.

In every sense the citizen and the alien are different.

This is not theoretical.

Catch an alien on a jury and the verdict will be overturned.

Catch an alien voting and the votes will have to be recounted
or adjusted.

Technically, any illegal alien is subject to citizen's arrest.

Aliens do not have American "rights". They have certain
statutory protections.



Unka George
(George McDuffee)

...and at the end of the fight is a tombstone white
with the name of the late deceased, and
the epitaph drear:
“A Fool lies here, who tried to hustle the East.”

Rudyard Kipling The Naulahka, ch. 5, heading (1892).

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In OT- Can They Come Stay With You? on 30 Mar 2006 16:11:30
-0800, by Too_Many_Tools, we read:

This just in...you better plan on your "New Orleans friends" staying
awhile.....a long while.

And oh yeah....they will need some more of your money.

Too bad we are spending it in Iraq when it is desparately needed here
in the good old United States....remind me again which Party is
spending our tax money where?

TMT

New Orleans Recovery Could Take 25 Years By LARA JAKES JORDAN,
Associated Press Writer

snipped


"We kind of want it to happen overnight, or I do, but it's going to
take some time," Powell said. "This could be five to 25 years for it
all to fit into place."

Powell also said the Army Corps of Engineers now estimates it will cost
an additional $5.9 billion to repair levees enough to fully protect and
insure nearly 1.1 million residents of the greater New Orleans area.

That is in addition to the $3.5 billion the Bush administration has so
far sought to bring the levees back to at least their pre-Katrina
levels by June 1, the start of the 2006 hurricane season.

Powell said the Corps recently told him the administration must commit
to spending as much as $5.9 billion more before it could fully certify
the levees, as needed to issue flood maps that determine insurance
rates and allow rebuilding to begin.

Absurd.

The Corps is an instrument of political policy. The
powers-that-be do not want New Orleans as it was.
Therefore they throw out ridiculous figures to
minimize government involvement and direct recovery to
private interests.

The plans are to displace the natives and rebuild
New Orleans as "Las Vegas South".



snipped


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Jedd Haas wrote in article
...


You come across like the typical anonymous inbred asshole who's been
having problems with immigrants ever since you came to this country.

--

I have a problem with people who consider themselves to be above the law -
immigrant or not....

On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 13:45:36 -0500, Strabo
wrote:

There are however certain rights that are [theoretically] limited
to citizens such as voting, serving on juries and a passport. In
this sense the citizen and non-citizen are different.

In every sense the citizen and the alien are different.

This is not theoretical.

Catch an alien on a jury and the verdict will be overturned.

Catch an alien voting and the votes will have to be recounted
or adjusted.

Technically, any illegal alien is subject to citizen's arrest.

Aliens do not have American "rights". They have certain
statutory protections.

Absolutly correct and very well stated.

Gunner


"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if
nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace
personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed,
the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of
defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see
police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line
of defense." --Walter Williams

On Sat, 01 Apr 2006 02:24:49 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

There are however certain rights that are [theoretically] limited
to citizens such as voting, serving on juries and a passport. In
this sense the citizen and non-citizen are different.

In every sense the citizen and the alien are different.

This is not theoretical.

Catch an alien on a jury and the verdict will be overturned.

Catch an alien voting and the votes will have to be recounted
or adjusted.

Technically, any illegal alien is subject to citizen's arrest.

Aliens do not have American "rights". They have certain
statutory protections.

Absolutly correct and very well stated.

Gunner
The operative words are theoretically and technically. When was
the last time you heard of any of this happening?

For voting try to call Representative [B-1] Bob Dornen of
California in Washington. As I recall there were over 100 people
registered to vote and who did vote out of one small single
family home. Existance/citizenship of these and thousands of
other voters was never verified, and the get along -- go along
congress did nothing. Cook country democracy in action.

For any of this to be more than spells, chants and incantations,
the people in power must *want* to do something other than
maintain the status quo / business as usual, and as they keep
getting (re)elected, why should they want to?




Unka George
(George McDuffee)

There is something to be said for government by a great aristocracy
which has furnished leaders to the nation in peace and war for generations;
even a democrat like myself must admit this.

But there is absolutely nothing to be said for government by a plutocracy,
for government by men very powerful in certain lines and gifted with the "money touch,"
but with ideals which in their essence are merely those of so many glorified pawnbrokers.

Theodore Roosevelt (1858-1919), U.S. Republican (later Progressive) politician, president. Letter, 15 Nov. 1913.

On Sat, 01 Apr 2006 11:00:09 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

There are however certain rights that are [theoretically] limited
to citizens such as voting, serving on juries and a passport. In
this sense the citizen and non-citizen are different.

In every sense the citizen and the alien are different.

This is not theoretical.

Catch an alien on a jury and the verdict will be overturned.

Catch an alien voting and the votes will have to be recounted
or adjusted.

Technically, any illegal alien is subject to citizen's arrest.

Aliens do not have American "rights". They have certain
statutory protections.

Absolutly correct and very well stated.

Gunner
The operative words are theoretically and technically. When was
the last time you heard of any of this happening?

For voting try to call Representative [B-1] Bob Dornen of
California in Washington. As I recall there were over 100 people
registered to vote and who did vote out of one small single
family home. Existance/citizenship of these and thousands of
other voters was never verified, and the get along -- go along
congress did nothing. Cook country democracy in action.

Of course. Maria Sanchez was, like most latino politicians..crooked as
a dogs hind leg and she indeed did promote and manage to get a rather
large number of illegal votes into the count. But its rather
rare..hence we have a term for it..Cook Country Democracy. And
Sanchez hasnt lived it down either. She has absolutly no trust with
any other politician. Only some grudging respect for pulling off such
a swindle. And caused further elections to be gone over with a
electron microscope.

For any of this to be more than spells, chants and incantations,
the people in power must *want* to do something other than
maintain the status quo / business as usual, and as they keep
getting (re)elected, why should they want to?


"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

"Strabo" wrote...
In OT- Can They Come Stay With You? on Thu, 30 Mar 2006
14:33:17 GMT, by Lamont Cranston, we read:

* wrote:

[ snip ]

American citizens are protected by the rights guaranteed to American
citizens - including the various Constitutional amendments.......

Psst.... Hey, Buddy, wanna buy some oceanfront property in Leadville?

Non-citizens - especially those who are in either country illegally - do
NOT have any claim on any particular "rights" guaranteed by that
government.

Actually, they do, but you are too stupid to know it. For instance, as
a matter of law, citizens and non-citizens have the same legal rights if
they are arrested for a crime.

That depends on the type crime.

Legal rights are granted aliens by statute, not to be confused
with the American Bill of Rights.

Please find and cite the locations of the words "citizen" and/or "American"
in the "Bill of Rights".

-jc-

In OT- Can They Come Stay With You? on Sun, 02 Apr 2006
20:53:18 GMT, by John Chase, we read:

"Strabo" wrote...
In OT- Can They Come Stay With You? on Thu, 30 Mar 2006
14:33:17 GMT, by Lamont Cranston, we read:

* wrote:

[ snip ]

American citizens are protected by the rights guaranteed to American
citizens - including the various Constitutional amendments.......

Psst.... Hey, Buddy, wanna buy some oceanfront property in Leadville?

Non-citizens - especially those who are in either country illegally - do
NOT have any claim on any particular "rights" guaranteed by that
government.

Actually, they do, but you are too stupid to know it. For instance, as
a matter of law, citizens and non-citizens have the same legal rights if
they are arrested for a crime.

That depends on the type crime.

Legal rights are granted aliens by statute, not to be confused
with the American Bill of Rights.

Please find and cite the locations of the words "citizen" and/or "American"
in the "Bill of Rights".

Gee. Now why would I expect to find them there?

It is the United States Constitution. It has no jurisdiction
or application outside of the united states and territories. It
does not pertain to any other nation, people or culture in the
universe.

While most of the FF and the framers of the Constitution
believed that "All men are endowed with certain unalienable
Rights" was a universal prescription for mankind, they
certainly did not include the world in the Constitution of the
United States.



-jc-


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