Let me preface this by saying I don't know much about lathes but I thought I
would like to have one. So, I went out and bought a South Bend 10" lathe.
I am trying to get all the information on it that I can, such as an owner's
manual, parts lists, how-to, and stuff like that. It seems there is a lot
of material out there that a guy can buy, but which one? There is quite a
few on eBay. Any recommendations?

I don't know the serial number of it, but I found out today where to look
for it, so that's where I'm starting. I don't even know how to get the
thing out of fast gear, so you can see that this is going to be a learning
experiece and I'm excited about it.

For all I know, I got took on the whole deal (paid $850), but the guy that
had it converted it to 1ph/110V and that's what I needed (although I would
have preferred 220V). The way he routed the electrical wires is a little
undesireable, so that will be one of the first things I will change. I'd
like to make sure and go through the whole thing, checking oil levels and
gears, before I start running it and chance breaking something.

For starters, how important is it that the machine be leveled? Do I need to
get a precision level and have it within a couple thousandths? Where would
you guys start on what to check and look out for? What are some of the
tooling that you would buy right off the bat? It came with a 3 and 4 jaw
chuck, and I'm not sure what size collets or even how to tell.

Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Relz

http://www.lindsaybks.com/bks/lathebk/index.html

Try http://www.lindsaybks.com/

They have a reprint of the SB lathe manuals see #s 21150 and
#21583 at http://www.lindsaybks.com/bks/lathebk/index.html and
the SB project book at
http://www.lindsaybks.com/bks4/sblpro/index.html

For a good introduction to machining in general, I suggest that
you also purchase Milne's Machine Shop Methods. See
http://www.lindsaybks.com/bks/milne/index.html

A lathe does not care if it is level as long as it is flat (i.e.
not warped). However, the easiest way to insure it is flat (and
to easily check) is to level it. This can be a royal PITA
because most lathes have four legs. It is easy to twist a lathe
when you bolt it down and it will never cut straight.

Take the level you plan on using and put it across and lengthwise
on the lathe. Put a feeler gage under one end to see how small a
change you can detect. If you are uncomfortable with the amount
it takes to be detectable, get a better level.

If possible, use screw adjustment levelers and avoid shims.

As for tools, a great deal depends on what you will be making,
and if you want to make or buy. Also, do you mean tools, tooling
or attachments?

One of the most immediately important items if you don't have
one, is a one-inch drop dial indicator with both a magnetic stand
and "mighty-mag" style base. Should be c.30$ from Enco with a
set of interchangeable tips.



================================================== =================
On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 12:42:23 -0500, "Relz"
wrote:

Let me preface this by saying I don't know much about lathes but I thought I
would like to have one. So, I went out and bought a South Bend 10" lathe.
I am trying to get all the information on it that I can, such as an owner's
manual, parts lists, how-to, and stuff like that. It seems there is a lot
of material out there that a guy can buy, but which one? There is quite a
few on eBay. Any recommendations?

I don't know the serial number of it, but I found out today where to look
for it, so that's where I'm starting. I don't even know how to get the
thing out of fast gear, so you can see that this is going to be a learning
experiece and I'm excited about it.

For all I know, I got took on the whole deal (paid $850), but the guy that
had it converted it to 1ph/110V and that's what I needed (although I would
have preferred 220V). The way he routed the electrical wires is a little
undesireable, so that will be one of the first things I will change. I'd
like to make sure and go through the whole thing, checking oil levels and
gears, before I start running it and chance breaking something.

For starters, how important is it that the machine be leveled? Do I need to
get a precision level and have it within a couple thousandths? Where would
you guys start on what to check and look out for? What are some of the
tooling that you would buy right off the bat? It came with a 3 and 4 jaw
chuck, and I'm not sure what size collets or even how to tell.

Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Relz

Level is nice, but it's more important that there's no twist or sag in
the bedways. That can be adjusted the same way as for levelling. Method
is described in most books, and is tested with trial cuts on a long
piece between centres. Lathes in ships have no level. (Is there a lathe
on the Space Shuttle?)
The in-house publication, "How to Run a Lathe", is a good, succinct book
on the basics. I have a friend who thought there was an "i" in "Run".

Relz wrote:

For starters, how important is it that the machine be leveled?

"Jordan" wrote in message
u...
Level is nice, but it's more important that there's no twist or sag in
the bedways. That can be adjusted the same way as for levelling. Method
is described in most books, and is tested with trial cuts on a long
piece between centres. Lathes in ships have no level. (Is there a lathe
on the Space Shuttle?)
Think of all that swarf floating around in zero-G ;-)
Martin

--
martindot herewhybrowat herentlworlddot herecom

The in-house publication, "How to Run a Lathe", is a good, succinct book
on the basics. I have a friend who thought there was an "i" in "Run".

Relz wrote:

For starters, how important is it that the machine be leveled?

piece between centres. Lathes in ships have no level. (Is there a lathe
on the Space Shuttle?)

Then again, there are no requirements for precision machining at sea. Never
seen a machinist at sea either.

"Tony" wrote in message
...
piece between centres. Lathes in ships have no level. (Is there a lathe
on the Space Shuttle?)

Then again, there are no requirements for precision machining at sea.
Never
seen a machinist at sea either.



Talking of machining at sea; my previous employer had a sideline in taking
on ship repair contracts for the Royal Navy. At one point they were bidding
for a repair to the propshaft on a destroyer, somehow they had jammed a prop
and the propshaft had whipped; the winning contractor apparently turned it
in place with a (I imagine huge) travelling lathe, reducing its diameter but
making it straight again; lasted long enough to get them back to Portsmouth
for a replacement to be installed.
Martin

--
martindot herewhybrowat herentlworlddot herecom

"Relz" wrote in message
...
Let me preface this by saying I don't know much about lathes but I thought
I would like to have one. So, I went out and bought a South Bend 10"
lathe. I am trying to get all the information on it that I can, such as an
owner's manual, parts lists, how-to, and stuff like that. It seems there
is a lot of material out there that a guy can buy, but which one? There
is quite a few on eBay. Any recommendations?


I want to thank everyone who volunteered information about the books and on
leveling. I will order some literature right away.

Relz

In article , Tony
wrote:

piece between centres. Lathes in ships have no level. (Is there a lathe
on the Space Shuttle?)

Then again, there are no requirements for precision machining at sea. Never
seen a machinist at sea either.

Both of which statements only demonstrate what a sheltered life you've
led.

I work on an icebreaker equipped for marine science work. We have and
use lathes & mills aboard ship. When you're dealing with pressure
vessels going to over 5000m depth, you'd better get the tolerances
correct.

PDW

Pete,

I've worked on over 20 oceangoing ships in my career as a officer, some over
1200' long 500,000 DWT, and i'll stick to my contention I've never met a
machinist at sea. Yes each ship had a lathe, and they were never used, just
took up space.

Ships engineers don't have the time, tooling/equipment, or experience to
perform machining jobs other than very occasional kludge work.

Tony

So tell us all these precison jobs you do out there on your icebreaker, when
your not in the galley helping the chief steward. I've been too sheltered
as you say. Also tell us the extent of the toolcrib, and the barstock on
hand in which you fabricate all these parts for Voyage to the Bottom of the
Sea. Oh, when you need that special tap or collet does MSC deliver via
airdrop?


"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article , Tony
wrote:

piece between centres. Lathes in ships have no level. (Is there a
lathe
on the Space Shuttle?)

Then again, there are no requirements for precision machining at sea.
Never
seen a machinist at sea either.

Both of which statements only demonstrate what a sheltered life you've
led.

I work on an icebreaker equipped for marine science work. We have and
use lathes & mills aboard ship. When you're dealing with pressure
vessels going to over 5000m depth, you'd better get the tolerances
correct.

PDW

In article ,
Peter Wiley wrote:

Sarcasm will get you nowhere, Tony. You've worked on cargo ships. I
work on oceanographic research vessels. Different animal. Difference
between us is, I don't make the mistake of generalising my limited
experience to apply to the world.

You're quite correct about ship engineering staff, mostly. What you
miss is the fact that I manage a marine engineering research & support
group. When we go off on long cruises, we take a couple electronics
techs/engineers, a couple scientific programmers and a couple mech
types including at least one fitter/welder in addition to the ship
crew.

As for the tools - hah. We take 2 20' containers of spares with us plus
all the gear we plan on using. We have another container fitted out as
a workshop. As you say, if you don't have it, you ain't gonna get it
and it can take 2 weeks to get to the nearest port. There's also a
*big* difference between the equipment on a research ship and a
freighter. Last summer we had to remachine s/steel pressure vessels
because the O ring groove was damaged and water was leaking in at
5000m. When was the last time you had to take water samples from 5000m
down, and what electronics package did you use to measure the particle
count, temperature and salinity on the way? How many oceanographic
winches with 6000m of cable do you usually have onboard? If you've
served in cargo ships, you load cargo at one place and head for the
next. As long as the engines run and nothing major breaks, you make the
next port and then get shoreside engineering firms to fix whatever's
wrong while discharging/loading cargo, getting ****ed etc. We work a
research ship 24/7 and downtime on gear *cannot* wait until we make
port.

Back to the ship's engineering staff. A couple years ago we had the
hydraulic line to the CP prop break at its threaded section, inside the
prop hub. While we were inside the icepack. The guys manufactured an
expanding sleeve that was fed down inside the pipe to the break then
expanded to provide a 'good enough' seal so we could get some pitch on
and come home. All fabricated on board using the ship gear. I suspect
that our crew requirements are different to yours. Most merchant ships
have largely 3rd World crews and a handful of First World officers. We
have all trained First World crew.

And Tony...... if I really needed a special tap, I'd *make* one. As
would any competent machinist. It's not all that difficult, ya know.
BTDT. Provided I didn't need to tap 316, anyway. Then I'd think about
welding it. A kludge at sea that gets the job done is better than
perfection shoreside after the event, and my shop here at work can
always make another widget or 2.

I'd advise you to drop this one. Accept that your experience isn't
universal. No shame in that, research vessels are different animals
entirely in equipment and, probably, crew, to cargo vessels. If you
really want to know more, rather than just try to shore up a losing
position, email me offline and I'll provide you with my work address
and details.

PDW


We had a Navy open house a few years ago an done of the ships was a
sub tender and most of the shops were open, and *what* a collection of
shops; a big machine shop with standard and NC machines, a
paternmaking shop and foundry for exoctic metals and a great woodshop.
All large enough to handle *big* work. It was on a deck that had huge
doors on both sides and was open to the ocean. I can't imagine how
much time was spent keeping the rust under control.




--
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m

Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.

Al Dykes wrote:


We had a Navy open house a few years ago an done of the ships was a
sub tender and most of the shops were open, and *what* a collection of
shops; a big machine shop with standard and NC machines, a
paternmaking shop and foundry for exoctic metals and a great woodshop.
All large enough to handle *big* work. It was on a deck that had huge
doors on both sides and was open to the ocean. I can't imagine how
much time was spent keeping the rust under control.

Been there, done that.

Lots and lots of time fighting rust.

Howard R Garner
USN Chief retired

Sarcasm will get you nowhere, Tony.

Good , cause I wasn't looking to impress you.

we take a couple electronics
techs/engineers, a couple scientific programmers and a couple mech
types including at least one fitter/welder in addition to the ship
crew.

So who's the toolmaker/machinist? the welder or the programmer?


As for the tools - hah. We take 2 20' containers of spares with us plus
all the gear we plan on using. We have another container fitted out as
a workshop.

ok, and were you holding to .0001 inside your container? The OP suggested
that leveling a lathe was not important because lathes at sea are not level.
My contention is that accuracy is not a requirement at sea. Accuracy to me,
in a machine shop environment, means holding to tenths.

Last summer we had to remachine s/steel pressure vessels
because the O ring groove was damaged and water was leaking in at
5000m. When was the last time you had to take water samples from 5000m
down, and what electronics package did you use to measure the particle
count, temperature and salinity on the way?

Oh I'm so impressed, and it's so relevant to the original post. I'm sure you
play with your package quite a bit.


Back to the ship's engineering staff. A couple years ago we had the
hydraulic line to the CP prop break at its threaded section, inside the
prop hub. While we were inside the icepack. The guys manufactured an
expanding sleeve that was fed down inside the pipe to the break then
expanded to provide a 'good enough' seal so we could get some pitch on
and come home. All fabricated on board using the ship gear.

ok, and did you machine these parts to .0000? Sounds like a kludge repair.
it got the job done and thats great, but accuracy & tight tolerances, doubt
it.
Again, your not paying attention to the original post, and your comments
support my postition.

I suspect
that our crew requirements are different to yours. Most merchant ships
have largely 3rd World crews and a handful of First World officers. We
have all trained First World crew.

I only sailed American flag ships, which means all American crew. The
engineers mostly came from American academies unless they came up the
hawsepipe.




, email me offline and I'll provide you with my work address
and details.

Nah, i'm not sending you a Christman card this year.



Tony

Sarcasm will get you nowhere, Tony. You've worked on cargo ships. I
work on oceanographic research vessels. Different animal. Difference
between us is, I don't make the mistake of generalising my limited
experience to apply to the world.

You're quite correct about ship engineering staff, mostly. What you
miss is the fact that I manage a marine engineering research & support
group. When we go off on long cruises, we take a couple electronics
techs/engineers, a couple scientific programmers and a couple mech
types including at least one fitter/welder in addition to the ship
crew.

As for the tools - hah. We take 2 20' containers of spares with us plus
all the gear we plan on using. We have another container fitted out as
a workshop. As you say, if you don't have it, you ain't gonna get it
and it can take 2 weeks to get to the nearest port. There's also a
*big* difference between the equipment on a research ship and a
freighter. Last summer we had to remachine s/steel pressure vessels
because the O ring groove was damaged and water was leaking in at
5000m. When was the last time you had to take water samples from 5000m
down, and what electronics package did you use to measure the particle
count, temperature and salinity on the way? How many oceanographic
winches with 6000m of cable do you usually have onboard? If you've
served in cargo ships, you load cargo at one place and head for the
next. As long as the engines run and nothing major breaks, you make the
next port and then get shoreside engineering firms to fix whatever's
wrong while discharging/loading cargo, getting ****ed etc. We work a
research ship 24/7 and downtime on gear *cannot* wait until we make
port.

Back to the ship's engineering staff. A couple years ago we had the
hydraulic line to the CP prop break at its threaded section, inside the
prop hub. While we were inside the icepack. The guys manufactured an
expanding sleeve that was fed down inside the pipe to the break then
expanded to provide a 'good enough' seal so we could get some pitch on
and come home. All fabricated on board using the ship gear. I suspect
that our crew requirements are different to yours. Most merchant ships
have largely 3rd World crews and a handful of First World officers. We
have all trained First World crew.

And Tony...... if I really needed a special tap, I'd *make* one. As
would any competent machinist. It's not all that difficult, ya know.
BTDT. Provided I didn't need to tap 316, anyway. Then I'd think about
welding it. A kludge at sea that gets the job done is better than
perfection shoreside after the event, and my shop here at work can
always make another widget or 2.

I'd advise you to drop this one. Accept that your experience isn't
universal. No shame in that, research vessels are different animals
entirely in equipment and, probably, crew, to cargo vessels. If you
really want to know more, rather than just try to shore up a losing
position, email me offline and I'll provide you with my work address
and details.

PDW

In article , Tony
wrote:

Pete,

I've worked on over 20 oceangoing ships in my career as a officer, some over
1200' long 500,000 DWT, and i'll stick to my contention I've never met a
machinist at sea. Yes each ship had a lathe, and they were never used, just
took up space.

Ships engineers don't have the time, tooling/equipment, or experience to
perform machining jobs other than very occasional kludge work.

Tony

So tell us all these precison jobs you do out there on your icebreaker, when
your not in the galley helping the chief steward. I've been too sheltered
as you say. Also tell us the extent of the toolcrib, and the barstock on
hand in which you fabricate all these parts for Voyage to the Bottom of the
Sea. Oh, when you need that special tap or collet does MSC deliver via
airdrop?


"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article , Tony
wrote:

piece between centres. Lathes in ships have no level. (Is there a
lathe
on the Space Shuttle?)

Then again, there are no requirements for precision machining at sea.
Never
seen a machinist at sea either.

Both of which statements only demonstrate what a sheltered life you've
led.

I work on an icebreaker equipped for marine science work. We have and
use lathes & mills aboard ship. When you're dealing with pressure
vessels going to over 5000m depth, you'd better get the tolerances
correct.

PDW

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 00:01:28 -0400, Tony wrote:

ok, and were you holding to .0001 inside your container? The OP suggested
that leveling a lathe was not important because lathes at sea are not level.
My contention is that accuracy is not a requirement at sea. Accuracy to me,
in a machine shop environment, means holding to tenths.

The lathes don't have to be level they have to be straight and not
twisted. Whether the bed is at an angle is irrelvant
G

If his 10" South Bend is like mine, the bed twist adjustment is a pair
of opposing set screws in the tailstock end of the bed casting. I think
the coarse adjustment is to back both off, then run them in until they
barely touch the internal tab. When I did that a precision level
shimmed to read level on the carriage indicated the same at both ends
of the ways.

jw