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  #1   Report Post  
Ed Huntress
 
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Default OT - Gunner on Republicans?

"Gunner" wrote in message
...

Good point but analogous to bribing the stewards on the Titanic
for an up grade to first-class. Better to save the money in hard
currency or speci for a seat in the lifeboats.


Thats one of the tenents of survivalism.


The other one is, "never pass up fresh roadkill."

d8-)

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Ed Huntress


  #2   Report Post  
Gunner
 
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On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 22:29:33 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .

Good point but analogous to bribing the stewards on the Titanic
for an up grade to first-class. Better to save the money in hard
currency or speci for a seat in the lifeboats.


Thats one of the tenents of survivalism.


The other one is, "never pass up fresh roadkill."

d8-


Only if its someone you know.

Gunner


Leftwingers are like pond scum. They are green, slimy, show up where
they are not wanted, and interfere with the fishing.

Strider
  #3   Report Post  
jim rozen
 
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In article , Gunner says...

Tell that to the folks in Chilie that now have a very sucessful, very
viable Social Security system...where we have a ship headed for the
rocks.


That's crap and you know it. If they can run the entire *country*
on deficit spending, they can afford to print up a few more T bills
and keep SS going. They'll have to do that in 40 years, and they'll
have to spend 1/100th the amount of money they don't have, as we're
currently spending right now to fund the war in Iraq.

Bush is already shifting away from the nonsensical SS privatization
scheme - he's realized that it really is the political third
rail. Touch it, and he dies. The wall street folks who contributed
to his campaign are realizing that he's gonna eventually reneg on his
promises to them.

Now on to more pressing things, namely: "What does Gunner think
they should do to Medicare, which is currently in Big Trouble (tm)
right *now*?

Jim


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Ed Huntress
 
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"Gunner" wrote in message
...


God I love the Left..."night is day, love is hate, peace is war...",
Chili's sucess at privatizing Social Security is a failure....,,,
snicker...thats nearly as bad as Ed not even bothering to check links
yet pontificating on them in detail.


I didn't comment on your links. I commented on *you*, calling the left the
"party of hatred," and then quoting a half-dozen sources explaining why the
right hates the left.

I don't care why you hate them. The subject was that you were accusing the
other side of exactly what you're guilty of yourself. Again.

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Gunner
 
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On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 22:53:56 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .


God I love the Left..."night is day, love is hate, peace is war...",
Chili's sucess at privatizing Social Security is a failure....,,,
snicker...thats nearly as bad as Ed not even bothering to check links
yet pontificating on them in detail.


I didn't comment on your links. I commented on *you*, calling the left the
"party of hatred," and then quoting a half-dozen sources explaining why the
right hates the left.

I don't care why you hate them. The subject was that you were accusing the
other side of exactly what you're guilty of yourself. Again.



Snicker...still didnt read the gardening post.....ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!

Gunner


Lathe Dementia. Recognized as one of the major sub-strains of the
all-consuming virus, Packratitis. Usual symptoms easily recognized
and normally is contracted for life. Can be very contagious.
michael


  #6   Report Post  
Ed Huntress
 
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"Guido" wrote in message
...
Guido wrote:

Gunner wrote:

Chili's sucess at privatizing Social Security is a failure....,,,
snicker...thats nearly as bad as Ed not even bothering to check links
yet pontificating on them in detail.


Hands up anyone that bothers checking Gunner's links?

Anyone?

Anyone at all?


Only when I'm waiting behind my wife and son to get into the shower.

--
Ed Huntress


  #7   Report Post  
Gunner
 
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On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 15:30:35 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

"Guido" wrote in message
...
Guido wrote:

Gunner wrote:

Chili's sucess at privatizing Social Security is a failure....,,,
snicker...thats nearly as bad as Ed not even bothering to check links
yet pontificating on them in detail.


Hands up anyone that bothers checking Gunner's links?

Anyone?

Anyone at all?


Only when I'm waiting behind my wife and son to get into the shower.


That brings up a picture too gruesome for even me to dwell on......

Gunner


Lathe Dementia. Recognized as one of the major sub-strains of the
all-consuming virus, Packratitis. Usual symptoms easily recognized
and normally is contracted for life. Can be very contagious.
michael
  #8   Report Post  
nightmare zombie
 
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Cliff piddled around and finally wrote:

I wish I could get a girlfriend...maybe if I acted like a man?


  #9   Report Post  
jim rozen
 
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In article , Frank White says...

But (shrug), I've said what I wanted to say. Bush's plan is
absurd on the face of it, ...


And more importantly, bush's advisors have realized the
depth of the political goo it represents. If he keeps
pushing it to pander to wall street, he's gonna get in
so deep he won't be able to climb out.

Rule one for bush: when you're in a hole, quit digging.

Jim


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  #10   Report Post  
jim rozen
 
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In article , Ed Huntress says...

But (shrug), I've said what I wanted to say. Bush's plan is
absurd on the face of it, and won't come to anything but a lot
of talk. For which we should be thankful, because otherwise
we would REALLY be in trouble...


Whaddaya mean, "absurd"? All we have to do is finance it with a couple of
trillion $ of Treasury bonds. Of course, the questionable nature of Treasury
bonds, when used to finance future SS payments, is the problem itself. ...


No no no. That's no problem at *all*.

We're running the entire friggin COUNTRY that way right now.
A few extra pennies for SS would be way far down in the noise.

Jim


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  #11   Report Post  
D Murphy
 
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Why wrote in :

Hey ED, I'm a Joe Sixpack & I invested in 1944 Brownies & I might be
stupid but my return on the Brownies is better than I will ever get
from SS


Heh, I know a guy who has this tough little job where he figured out a way
to make the part on a #2 from an extrusion and a clever set up. It's one of
those deals where you look at the print and rack your brain trying to
figure out how to make it. Then you see it run and you think of course! So
simple. Every 15 seconds he makes a quarter profit. He tells me that he
comes in to the shop every morning, starts the coffee turns on the lights
and the compressor. Then goes over to the old Brownie gives it a kiss and
starts it up. $1.00 a minute all day every day, the tools last forever.
Most places would be milling this thing in three set ups on a Haas and
losing their ass. He told me he has $5,000 in the machine total. Bought a
clapped out machine, rebuilt it, and tooled it up himself. Gotta love it.



--

Dan

  #12   Report Post  
jim rozen
 
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In article , Gunner says...

Buy a PDA (Physians Desk Referance) and make friends with the owners
of the local feed and grain store.


Or, buy a PDR even if you *don't* plan on shopping there.
The book is chock-full of information about the drugs
that doctors and pharmaceutical companies push. Interesting
reading, that.

Jim


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Ed Huntress
 
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"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , Gunner says...

Buy a PDA (Physians Desk Referance) and make friends with the owners
of the local feed and grain store.


Or, buy a PDR even if you *don't* plan on shopping there.
The book is chock-full of information about the drugs
that doctors and pharmaceutical companies push. Interesting
reading, that.

Jim


Man, some of them are really ugly, too. Today, I was editing prescribing
information for clozapine, which can drop your white-cell count and kill
you. Be glad you're not schizophrenic.

When you get into the "last ditch" drugs for horrendous conditions, you get
a whole new perspective on "side effects" and risks. Like, some of them are
death. So you're playing a game of statistics and hoping you roll sevens.

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Gunner
 
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On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 20:10:50 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , Gunner says...

Buy a PDA (Physians Desk Referance) and make friends with the owners
of the local feed and grain store.


Or, buy a PDR even if you *don't* plan on shopping there.
The book is chock-full of information about the drugs
that doctors and pharmaceutical companies push. Interesting
reading, that.

Jim


Man, some of them are really ugly, too. Today, I was editing prescribing
information for clozapine, which can drop your white-cell count and kill
you. Be glad you're not schizophrenic.

When you get into the "last ditch" drugs for horrendous conditions, you get
a whole new perspective on "side effects" and risks. Like, some of them are
death. So you're playing a game of statistics and hoping you roll sevens.


My wife has to take Amiodarone for her V-tach.

The Devils Drug.

Gunner

Rule #35
"That which does not kill you,
has made a huge tactical error"
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Ed Huntress
 
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"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 20:10:50 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , Gunner says...

Buy a PDA (Physians Desk Referance) and make friends with the owners
of the local feed and grain store.

Or, buy a PDR even if you *don't* plan on shopping there.
The book is chock-full of information about the drugs
that doctors and pharmaceutical companies push. Interesting
reading, that.

Jim


Man, some of them are really ugly, too. Today, I was editing prescribing
information for clozapine, which can drop your white-cell count and kill
you. Be glad you're not schizophrenic.

When you get into the "last ditch" drugs for horrendous conditions, you

get
a whole new perspective on "side effects" and risks. Like, some of them

are
death. So you're playing a game of statistics and hoping you roll sevens.


My wife has to take Amiodarone for her V-tach.

The Devils Drug.


Ouch. I didn't check the references for frequencies on the side effects, but
the Medline listing makes them sound like walking a tightrope.

How's she doing on it?

--
Ed Huntress




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Actually I do think we have a ship headed for the rocks. And I think
that is crap.

The way I see it is like this. What Congress is doing is something
like this. Say I am working and I make almost enough to get by pretty
well. Well I ought to have some savings for retirement. So I buy a
lockbox and put in say 15% of what I make. Now that is a good thing.
But then I decide to buy a new car. So I do that, and now I don't have
quite enough money. But I have a great idea. I will just take money
from that box where I have it for retirement, and I will put in an IOU
every month when I take the money out for the car. This will work
until I need that money for retirement in say 2017.

Congress is spending all that money that is going into the Social
Security trust fund.
The Social Security trust fund is not backed by any physical assets.
The point is that those Social Security trust funds are only backed by
the government's ability to raise money by taxes. There isn't any
bricks or mortor backing those government bonds. So when Social
Security needs to cash in those bonds in large quanities, taxes are
going to have to go up and Social Security benefits will go down. You
can only sell bonds if there is a reasonably expectation that they well
be redeemed. My congressman is going to protect Social Security now
and let someone else figure out how to get out of the mess. He will
have stayed in office long enough to collect his government pension.

Bush's privatization plan pulls some of that money out of reach of
Congress. Which is why so many Congressmen are against it.


Dan

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Gunner
 
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On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 23:58:02 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 20:10:50 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , Gunner says...

Buy a PDA (Physians Desk Referance) and make friends with the owners
of the local feed and grain store.

Or, buy a PDR even if you *don't* plan on shopping there.
The book is chock-full of information about the drugs
that doctors and pharmaceutical companies push. Interesting
reading, that.

Jim

Man, some of them are really ugly, too. Today, I was editing prescribing
information for clozapine, which can drop your white-cell count and kill
you. Be glad you're not schizophrenic.

When you get into the "last ditch" drugs for horrendous conditions, you

get
a whole new perspective on "side effects" and risks. Like, some of them

are
death. So you're playing a game of statistics and hoping you roll sevens.


My wife has to take Amiodarone for her V-tach.

The Devils Drug.


Ouch. I didn't check the references for frequencies on the side effects, but
the Medline listing makes them sound like walking a tightrope.

How's she doing on it?


Walking a tightrope with punji stakes on one side and the bowels of
hell on the other.

Its affected her liver functions, her kidneys, given her sleep apnea
(has to sleep with a pressure ventilator (CPAP) mask and it and the
other meds (9 at the moment) have caused her to start gaining weight
to some extent. She bruises like you wouldnt believe, has to be
careful not to cut herself. And of course the ventricular tachycardia.

Other than that, she is doing well enough. Ive gained a bit of
respect. She keeps a positive attitude most of the time, even though
she is home alone 4-5 nights a week. This week, she will be home alone
10 straight days. Well..the dogs are there.

They finally diagnosed her as having Factor 5/Leiden
http://www.fvleiden.org/

It appears she inheirited one bad gene. Her father had a massive MI
and died at the age of 45. Both her brothers (whom she resembles) had
MIs at 45, and she had hers at 45. Double bypasses all of them. Her
surviving brother has had arterial clogging problems until recently,
when she told him to have his doctor to check him for Factor 5.
Bingo.

That blood line has an expiration date. Mean time before failure.

The other sisters resemble her mom..no cardiac issues at all, so the
gene was passed down with something in DNA along with the genes that t
causes the victims all to have similar coloration, facial features
etc.

She was extremely fit, Jazzersize dancer, etc. Then got nailed by
genetics. Now she is disabled to fair degree. Shrug.

I expect to get a phone call someday while Im on the road, telling me
she was found dead. Knock on wood. Repeatedly and hard.

Course..she could outlive me. I have a higher stress level taking care
of her and everyone and everything else. Shrug

Gunner

Rule #35
"That which does not kill you,
has made a huge tactical error"
  #18   Report Post  
Larry Jaques
 
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On 1 Apr 2005 23:03:48 -0800, the inscrutable "
spake:

I t hink Bushes real plan is to get Joe Sixpack into equities so Joe
thinks he has a stake in the economy and votes Republican.

Those stupid MBA institutional investors will demand higher interest
rates when the Social Security trust fund starts to need funds instead
of providing funds for the government to spend. Either that or they
will be investing in the Chinese Bonds as the Treasury Bonds become
more suspect.
Dan


Water on Mars!
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap050401.html While we're on the
subject, I believe this picture shows more of Shrub's Shrews Science.


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The Clintons. + Website & Graphic Design
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  #19   Report Post  
jim rozen
 
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In article , Jeffrey
McCann says...

You'd think Wall Street would be talking up Bush's plan, but they're being
awfully quiet. I think they don't want a public debate on how the plan will
funnel huge amounts of money into their hands, and what share of that pie
they may be keeping for themselves. My other question is whether this
personal account money will become subject to judgment creditors. With
medical expenses accounting for an ever larger proportion of personal
bankruptcies, and recent bankruptcy law "reforms," what happens when you
withdraw your money? The fact that you can devise the money in your will
suggests a sufficient degree of individual control such that the money could
also be taken to satisfy creditors.


Apparently one of the other bugs is, if you are above a certain
age, they require you to purchase an annuity with the account when you
cash it out. That, and if your personal account outperforms what they
expect it to, they reduce the government's contribution accordingly.

I think that the dweeb is backing away from this entire plan as
rapidly as is politely acceptable, from a political standpoint.

Jim


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Right. I always thought that if Social Security was so great, Congress
would want to participate.


Dan

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jim rozen
 
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In article , Jeffrey
McCann says...

Which raises the inevitable question: why aren't Social Security funds
managed for market-rate returns already?


Don't get it, do you? There's nothing to manage, no money is
being saved. It's an entitlement program, nothing more than
welfare for old folks. All the money that comes in, goes
right out again.

That's the idea that sticks so hard in the neocon craw - SS
takes their money and gives it to other folks.

Jim


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Ed Huntress
 
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"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article ,

Jeffrey
McCann says...

Which raises the inevitable question: why aren't Social Security funds
managed for market-rate returns already?


Don't get it, do you? There's nothing to manage, no money is
being saved. It's an entitlement program, nothing more than
welfare for old folks. All the money that comes in, goes
right out again.


No, Jeff is right, or he would be, if there was a legal option to investing
the SS surplus (there almost always is one) in other securities. What that
would have done to the markets is anybody's guess. That's a whole lot of
market interference.


That's the idea that sticks so hard in the neocon craw - SS
takes their money and gives it to other folks.


Well, that part probably is accurate. d8-)

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Ed Huntress


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Eric R Snow
 
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On Sat, 2 Apr 2005 13:58:46 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

"wmbjk" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 20:05:14 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


Hell, I'd do it, if I didn't have insurance and I was looking for every
angle to cut expenses. It beats the hell out of taking nothing.


You'd buy drugs at the vet to save 10%, as opposed to reimporting
which saves much more but conflicts with "compassionate conservative"
philosophy? Oh wait, I just noticed the date on your post.... ;-)

Wayne


I think you got the percentages backwards, Wayne. d8-)

As for the drugs, I've spent most of my days over the past year reading,
studying, editing, and writing about pharmaceuticals. I'm with Gunner,
self-medicating with vet drugs beats nothing. A lot of information is
available. It's a matter of learning how to read it.

I have the greatest respect for physicians, but they can't be specialists in
everything. Over the past 30 years I've been ahead of my MDs (and even, once
or twice, endocrinologists) on much of type I diabetes treatment, and I've
often given them updates. Within very strict limits, if you make a concerted
effort and combine it with some professional medical diagnosis, some people
can get away with it. . .most of the time. It's a balance of risks.

Greetings Ed,
What you say about doctors not being up on everything is true. There
is just no way, unless they never saw patients. And a good doctor
won't mind a bit if you bring in something the doctor hasn't seen yet.
I did that once and my doctor checked into it in ways I can't because
I don't pay for the different scientific and medical journals he does.
Unfortunately the research was still in the mouse stage and wasn't
going to be troed on humans for a few years minimum. But he was glad
to get it. Another time I brought in an article to show to the
anesthesiologist. She had already seen the studies and was
implementing the findings. She told me it was "Old News". She had been
using the newer method for almost a year. But she was only slightly
amused, not insulted, by me bringing in the article. But then I've
also benefitted from the latest in some areas of medicine, by one of
the world's two or three best at what he does. And he works REALLY
HARD to be as good as he is. He also cares alot about his patients.
The way all good docs do.
Eric


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George Willer
 
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Here's an answer from one of us who are on the side who aren't socialists.
We have been denied the right to invest that part of our income that was
confiscated by the program for our own future. We learned at a very early
age the lesson of the 'Three Little Pigs'. There is no moral reason we
should have been required to provide for those who didn't learn the lesson.

Bush's privatization plan has one deep flaw... it doesn't go far enough. In
a perfect world everyone should have the option to participate or opt
completely out. After the system collapses, as it inevitably will, that's
where we will be anyway. The sooner it collapses, the less shock there will
be to our society... so I hope it is soon. By the way, I'm 70, and AARP can
kiss my a$$.

George Willer

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article . com,
says...

And for your information I do want to invest in the market, have been
doing it for years, and am way ahead.


Problem is, Dan, you are the anti-poster boy for Bush's
privatization plan. You pay your part of the tax now, so you
fund the program. *And* you invest some of your own money
on top of that.

If folks can do that right now, why do we need to privatize the
SS system? Just give all the folks who want to, the go-ahead
to invest on their own!

Jim


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  #27   Report Post  
jim rozen
 
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In article , George Willer says...

Here's an answer from one of us who are on the side who aren't socialists.
We have been denied the right to invest that part of our income that was
confiscated by the program for our own future.


George, you need to satisify the part of you that yearns for
freedom from governmental interference. You won't find it
in the US.

So I suggest you move to some country where they don't tax folks
and they don't provide for the common good. That way you can invest
*all* the income you want, because it's not going to any kind
of taxes - SS, federal income, sales, or state income tax.

You'd just be a lot happier if you weren't giving other folks
your money.

Jim


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  #28   Report Post  
jim rozen
 
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In article , Eric R Snow says...

... Another time I brought in an article to show to the
anesthesiologist. She had already seen the studies and was
implementing the findings. She told me it was "Old News". She had been
using the newer method for almost a year. But she was only slightly
amused, not insulted, by me bringing in the article. ...


I think that it's probably a lot tougher to be a doctor nowadays
with the information available to lay people on the internet.
Two edged sword though, folks like you show up and demonstrate
a fairly deep knowledge of a particular subject in the field.

I also think that really good doctors can do a pretty rapid,
accurate on-the-fly assesment of the smarts quotient in the
patient, so they can set the discussion level at the correct
starting point.

Jim


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  #29   Report Post  
George Willer
 
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Jim,

This is the best place in the world to live, as far as I know. What's
lacking is the will to stick to the principles that made it great. I'd be a
lot happier if the socialist wannabe's weren't constantly undermining it
with ideas that have never worked elsewhere long term, and certainly won't
here. Certainly you're intelligent enough to understand that.

George Willer

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , George Willer says...

Here's an answer from one of us who are on the side who aren't socialists.
We have been denied the right to invest that part of our income that was
confiscated by the program for our own future.


George, you need to satisify the part of you that yearns for
freedom from governmental interference. You won't find it
in the US.

So I suggest you move to some country where they don't tax folks
and they don't provide for the common good. That way you can invest
*all* the income you want, because it's not going to any kind
of taxes - SS, federal income, sales, or state income tax.

You'd just be a lot happier if you weren't giving other folks
your money.

Jim


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Gunner
 
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On 2 Apr 2005 16:50:49 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , George Willer says...

Here's an answer from one of us who are on the side who aren't socialists.
We have been denied the right to invest that part of our income that was
confiscated by the program for our own future.


George, you need to satisify the part of you that yearns for
freedom from governmental interference. You won't find it
in the US.

So I suggest you move to some country where they don't tax folks
and they don't provide for the common good. That way you can invest
*all* the income you want, because it's not going to any kind
of taxes - SS, federal income, sales, or state income tax.

You'd just be a lot happier if you weren't giving other folks
your money.

Jim



Spoken like the true Stateist.

Gunner

Rule #35
"That which does not kill you,
has made a huge tactical error"


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I did pay my payroll taxes,had no choice, but now I am blissfully
unemployed. And I did invest some of my own money on top of that.
Social Security is not a retirement plan as much as a safety net. I
did all right. Part of it was doing things like working in Alaska
where things were a bit primative, but where I got paid more and was
able to save more. And also building a house while I was working.
Makes for long days and not much playing on weekends. But not everyone
can do what I did. Some marriages will not take that strain. I had a
lot of good fortune.

Everyone already has the go ahead to invest on their own. But with
the change in the numbers of workers compared to the number of retired
folks, it is going to be a lot harder for a lot of people to save and
invest on their own. And the benefits of Social Security are going to
shrink in comparison to the employment taxes. Pay as you go does not
work well with only about two workers to one retiree. Pretty much
everyone recognizes that sometime in the future, things are going to
have to change. The question is when are they going to change, and
how. Historically the stock market has been a better place to invest
in than Treasury Bonds. The problem is that there is no guarantee.
But if one has a choice, I think it would be wise to invest some money
in the stock market.

I had an uncle who was a stock broker. He told me to only invest
money you can afford to lose in the stock market. That is good advice.
The idea of private investment accounts is to allow some investment in
higher risk investments, but not so much that one could end up with no
retirement. If you want to stick the current Social Security, you
should be able to do that. If you want to take some risk with the
potential of more reward, you ought to be able to do that. But there
needs to be limits on how you can risk.

As I see it, a worker just entering the work force is looking at either
25% more taxes while he/she works or 25% less retirement when he/she
retires. Bush is just trying to make it so the worker might pay the
same amount of taxes and not get 25% less when they retire.


Dan

  #32   Report Post  
Gunner
 
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On 2 Apr 2005 09:01:53 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

That's the idea that sticks so hard in the neocon craw - SS
takes their money and gives it to other folks.

Jim


You like having your money given to other people, at gun point or not?

I could sure use $10,000 right now. When will you send it?

Need snail mail addy?

Gunner

Rule #35
"That which does not kill you,
has made a huge tactical error"
  #33   Report Post  
 
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I will be 70 this year and I agree with you as far as the AARP. They
sure as hell don't represent me.

But I don't agree on everyone being able to opt out of Social Security.
There needs to be help for a lot of people. But I would be for a plan
that let you prove to the government that you were providing for your
old age, and that let you opt out of a good portion of the payroll
taxes.


Dan



  #34   Report Post  
Ed Huntress
 
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"George Willer" wrote in message
...
Jim,

This is the best place in the world to live, as far as I know. What's
lacking is the will to stick to the principles that made it great. I'd be

a
lot happier if the socialist wannabe's weren't constantly undermining it
with ideas that have never worked elsewhere long term, and certainly won't
here. Certainly you're intelligent enough to understand that.

George Willer


Since you're making it a question of Jim's "intelligence," let's see how
good yours is, George.

93% of US economic growth has occurred since the graduated income tax and
Social Security were implemented. Yet, the population in those years only
multiplied by a factor of 2.5.

In fact, the US economy has doubled since 1982, through years of high
welfare payments, food stamps, Medicare and Medicaid, and so on.

You'll find that, contrary to what you're saying, no country has ever had
much success, long-term or short-term, with *fewer* social programs than
those of the US. Look for it in history. You won't find it.

All of which raises the question, which requires both some intelligence and
some knowledge to answer: What in the hell are you talking about?

You may find some interesting answers in the recent research that's been
done in the emerging field of the psychology of economics. People are
risk-averse, including Americans. This is documented in investment-pattern
research. Nearly all of us are erroneous investors. We invest irrationally,
on the conservative side.

Likewise, without safety nets, we don't take as many risks on new ventures.
You can measure it. Innovation in an economy as a whole is far more prolific
when just the right amount of security is provided. Not private security.
Public security.

Where risks are great, whether it's because the government is unstable or
because people fear for the consequence of failure, innovation and
investment dry up. People hunker down. They play it safe. They don't change
jobs, and they don't buy new houses or make other long-term purchases.
Consumption in general slows. With slower consumption, the potential rewards
of investment, particularly in innovative products or services, decline.
Economies slow down. Employment may or may not decline, but wages are
depressed.

Maintaining strong economic growth is a balancing act. Ideologies on one
side or the other are certain ways to destroy it. You need strong safety
nets, what you may be calling "socialism," or your economy will fizzle. At
the same time, you need really large opportunities to make money with
successful innovations. You need both, in other words. This isn't
speculation. There are dozens of examples from around the world, recent and
not so recent, that document it.

Now, which "socialist" programs have you upset?

--
Ed Huntress


  #35   Report Post  
Ed Huntress
 
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"Eric R Snow" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 2 Apr 2005 13:58:46 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

"wmbjk" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 20:05:14 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


Hell, I'd do it, if I didn't have insurance and I was looking for

every
angle to cut expenses. It beats the hell out of taking nothing.

You'd buy drugs at the vet to save 10%, as opposed to reimporting
which saves much more but conflicts with "compassionate conservative"
philosophy? Oh wait, I just noticed the date on your post.... ;-)

Wayne


I think you got the percentages backwards, Wayne. d8-)

As for the drugs, I've spent most of my days over the past year reading,
studying, editing, and writing about pharmaceuticals. I'm with Gunner,
self-medicating with vet drugs beats nothing. A lot of information is
available. It's a matter of learning how to read it.

I have the greatest respect for physicians, but they can't be specialists

in
everything. Over the past 30 years I've been ahead of my MDs (and even,

once
or twice, endocrinologists) on much of type I diabetes treatment, and

I've
often given them updates. Within very strict limits, if you make a

concerted
effort and combine it with some professional medical diagnosis, some

people
can get away with it. . .most of the time. It's a balance of risks.

Greetings Ed,
What you say about doctors not being up on everything is true. There
is just no way, unless they never saw patients. And a good doctor
won't mind a bit if you bring in something the doctor hasn't seen yet.


That's been my experience. A few years ago my son's pediatrician went in the
back room and came out with a stack of _The Physician and Sportsmedicine_
for me. "Here," he said. "Read these." (I was reading about medial
epicondolitis, of which my son had a mild case at the time). "Then go tell
the other Little League coaches how to keep from wrecking their kids' arms."

He knew how to deal with the condition but he didn't have time to read *all*
of it. I did. So I fed back some of the info to him, and ran a couple of
one-evening sessions for the coaches.

Late last year I had to read everything published in the medical literature
about a particular drug. It took me a month of, maybe, half-time reading.
How could any practicing doctor do that? They deal with hundreds of drugs.
It's impossible.

After the work I've been doing for the past year I have more regard than
ever for the doctors who really work to keep up. It's a phenomenal amount of
work.

--
Ed Huntress




  #36   Report Post  
jim rozen
 
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In article , George Willer says...

Jim,

This is the best place in the world to live, as far as I know. What's
lacking is the will to stick to the principles that made it great. I'd be a
lot happier if the socialist wannabe's weren't constantly undermining it
with ideas that have never worked elsewhere long term, and certainly won't
here. Certainly you're intelligent enough to understand that.


What makes this country great is a pretty complicated thing George.
And it's not just *one* thing. The idea of taxing workers to take
care of old folks is at its heart a socialist idea - because it
means re-distributing money from folks who have it, to folks who
*don't*.

I maintain that one reason why this country is great, is because
we take care of old folks and don't just push them off on an ice
floe. (mostly)

You can argue, like gunner does, that there's *better* ways of
doing it. You can argue that we should never, in principle,
redistribute income in a socialist manner like that at all. But
honestly (and I'm not being tongue-in-cheek now) you're never
going to change the fact that our goverment works by taxing folks.

If you think you can, you're going to sorely disapointed and really
would be much happier living someplace where they don't have
taxes.


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  #37   Report Post  
jim rozen
 
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In article , Gunner says...

You like having your money given to other people, at gun point or not?

I could sure use $10,000 right now. When will you send it?


To change that around a bit. They paved my street last year.
That cost about $1Ok. My fellow city dwellers paid for it. Next year
I might pay for *their* street.

But it didn't take any guns to get it done.

You have a good point though. Taxes should be optional. Please
inform your president this is so, and have him remit the portion
I paid for his oveseas adventure in iraq.

Forthwith.

Jim


--
==================================================
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  #38   Report Post  
jim rozen
 
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In article .com,
says...

I had an uncle who was a stock broker. He told me to only invest
money you can afford to lose in the stock market. That is good advice.
The idea of private investment accounts is to allow some investment in
higher risk investments, but not so much that one could end up with no
retirement. If you want to stick the current Social Security, you
should be able to do that. If you want to take some risk with the
potential of more reward, you ought to be able to do that. But there
needs to be limits on how you can risk.

As I see it, a worker just entering the work force is looking at either
25% more taxes while he/she works or 25% less retirement when he/she
retires. Bush is just trying to make it so the worker might pay the
same amount of taxes and not get 25% less when they retire.


This sounds like it works fine when the economy is growing, and the
market is booming. Do we (the us taxpayer) have to make up the
difference if the private investment fails because the market goes
down?

Markets do go down - I know of at least one man who bought the stock
of a large blue company at hundreds of dollars per share - and had to
sell at 80 to finance his kids' college educations.

Of course, that was during Akers. Then Lou Gerstner came in, cooked
the books, and the stock price went up to a 150 or so - *after*
two splits! The man who sold at 80 was kicking himself a bunch then.

Jim


--
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==================================================
  #39   Report Post  
jim rozen
 
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In article , Gunner says...

You'd just be a lot happier if you weren't giving other folks
your money.


Spoken like the true Stateist.


I thought it was a prettly libertarian thing to say. He doesn't
want to pay SS tax. I don't want to pay for tobbacco subsidies
or for a war in iraq.

Neither of us are going to get that if we stay where we are.

My point was that despite all the boo-hooing going on, nobody
wants to leave this country because it still offers quite a
few advantages over the alternatives. One of those is, we
make a token effort to look after old folks.

Jim


--
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==================================================
  #40   Report Post  
Lew Hartswick
 
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Ed Huntress wrote:c

Speaking of BP, though, there *was* some ailment for which BP was a home
remedy. I can't remember what it is. 'Ever hear of it?

--
Ed Huntress


Back when I was a kid, (nearly 70 yrs ago) my dad use to give the
hunting dogs a peice of bread spread with butter to make the
surface sticky and loaded with gun powder to "worm" them.
Have no idea if it worked or not.
...lew...
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