"Lew Hartswick" wrote in message
ink.net...
Ed Huntress wrote:c

Speaking of BP, though, there *was* some ailment for which BP was a home
remedy. I can't remember what it is. 'Ever hear of it?

--
Ed Huntress


Back when I was a kid, (nearly 70 yrs ago) my dad use to give the
hunting dogs a peice of bread spread with butter to make the
surface sticky and loaded with gun powder to "worm" them.
Have no idea if it worked or not.
...lew...

Aha! That rings a bell. That may be what I was thinking of.

--
Ed Huntress

Dan,

Your idea is good... I think maybe the government should be your nanny if
you think it's right. Problem is... not everyone does as well when a nanny
makes all the decisions. On balance, we are all better off if the nanny
state keeps severely out of our personal business. This may not be true of
all the losers, but they would try harder if required to do so. Even the
socialist ones.

The need for help is created to a large extent by the nanny state usurping
personal responsibility.

Darwin was right!

George Willer

wrote in message
oups.com...
I will be 70 this year and I agree with you as far as the AARP. They
sure as hell don't represent me.

But I don't agree on everyone being able to opt out of Social Security.
There needs to be help for a lot of people. But I would be for a plan
that let you prove to the government that you were providing for your
old age, and that let you opt out of a good portion of the payroll
taxes.


Dan

Ed,

Forgive me for being just an uneducated bumpkin who never went to college,
but we are looking at different things.

Just to qualify it, I didn't question Jim's intelligence, and certainly
didn't question yours. I don't, however, confuse exposure to education
with intelligence. We simply differ on the value of converting to socialist
programs that cause more harm than good. I do and always have recognized
the impending disaster that was set up when SS was first put in place, for
example. I think it was about 3rd grade when we learned to do the math.

I'm not really upset, just recognize the reality that many of you who are so
fond of socialism don't wish to move where it is stronger. There are many
possibilities in the world.

Public security is bull****! There is no such thing... only the illusion of
security.

George Willer

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
"George Willer" wrote in message
...
Jim,

This is the best place in the world to live, as far as I know. What's
lacking is the will to stick to the principles that made it great. I'd
be
a
lot happier if the socialist wannabe's weren't constantly undermining it
with ideas that have never worked elsewhere long term, and certainly
won't
here. Certainly you're intelligent enough to understand that.

George Willer

Since you're making it a question of Jim's "intelligence," let's see how
good yours is, George.

93% of US economic growth has occurred since the graduated income tax and
Social Security were implemented. Yet, the population in those years only
multiplied by a factor of 2.5.

In fact, the US economy has doubled since 1982, through years of high
welfare payments, food stamps, Medicare and Medicaid, and so on.

You'll find that, contrary to what you're saying, no country has ever had
much success, long-term or short-term, with *fewer* social programs than
those of the US. Look for it in history. You won't find it.

All of which raises the question, which requires both some intelligence
and
some knowledge to answer: What in the hell are you talking about?

You may find some interesting answers in the recent research that's been
done in the emerging field of the psychology of economics. People are
risk-averse, including Americans. This is documented in investment-pattern
research. Nearly all of us are erroneous investors. We invest
irrationally,
on the conservative side.

Likewise, without safety nets, we don't take as many risks on new
ventures.
You can measure it. Innovation in an economy as a whole is far more
prolific
when just the right amount of security is provided. Not private security.
Public security.

Where risks are great, whether it's because the government is unstable or
because people fear for the consequence of failure, innovation and
investment dry up. People hunker down. They play it safe. They don't
change
jobs, and they don't buy new houses or make other long-term purchases.
Consumption in general slows. With slower consumption, the potential
rewards
of investment, particularly in innovative products or services, decline.
Economies slow down. Employment may or may not decline, but wages are
depressed.

Maintaining strong economic growth is a balancing act. Ideologies on one
side or the other are certain ways to destroy it. You need strong safety
nets, what you may be calling "socialism," or your economy will fizzle. At
the same time, you need really large opportunities to make money with
successful innovations. You need both, in other words. This isn't
speculation. There are dozens of examples from around the world, recent
and
not so recent, that document it.

Now, which "socialist" programs have you upset?

--
Ed Huntress

On 3 Apr 2005 05:44:56 -0700, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Gunner says...

You like having your money given to other people, at gun point or not?

I could sure use $10,000 right now. When will you send it?

To change that around a bit. They paved my street last year.
That cost about $1Ok. My fellow city dwellers paid for it. Next year
I might pay for *their* street.

But it didn't take any guns to get it done.

You have a good point though. Taxes should be optional. Please
inform your president this is so, and have him remit the portion
I paid for his oveseas adventure in iraq.

Forthwith.

Jim

I have prior claim on the $1 million dollars each your butt buddy
spent on Monica Missiles cost, not to mention repair to the USS Cole,
and the dead in Somalia. Then we can start on Bosnia, and the
Baltics..and the largest retroactive tax increase in US history.

Btw...dont pay your taxes. Sooner or later, large men with guns will
come along and make you pay.

Gunner

Rule #35
"That which does not kill you,
has made a huge tactical error"

In article , George Willer says...

Just to qualify it, I didn't question Jim's intelligence, and certainly
didn't question yours. I don't, however, confuse exposure to education
with intelligence.

I make no pretenses. Granted I've been exposed to some education
but I don't think I've cornered the smarts market.

We simply differ on the value of converting to socialist
programs that cause more harm than good. I do and always have recognized
the impending disaster that was set up when SS was first put in place, for
example. I think it was about 3rd grade when we learned to do the math.

But I am bright enough to figure out that on the balance, the SS program
has done more good than bad during its existence.

I'm not really upset, just recognize the reality that many of you who are so
fond of socialism don't wish to move where it is stronger. There are many
possibilities in the world.

There sure are. I personally think the mix is just about right, right
here.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

"What makes this country great is a pretty complicated thing George.
And it's not just *one* thing. The idea of taxing workers to take
care of old folks is at its heart a socialist idea - because it
means re-distributing money from folks who have it, to folks who
*don't*. "

That was NEVER a good idea, nor did it work as you say. It was never how
much one has that determined how much they would pay, nor how much one
doesn't have that would determine how much they receive. Most of my working
life I paid the maximum, including the employer's half. Now, since I'm 70,
I do receive a monthly check... much smaller than my return would have been
if I had been allowed to keep it. Yes, I did save and invest so I actually
have *some* income. I'm paying taxes on it again as well... amazingly I pay
SS tax!

Does anyone think there is actually a way to permanently repair this Ponzi
scheme so it won't eventually collapse? What are you smoking?

George Willer

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , George Willer says...

Jim,

This is the best place in the world to live, as far as I know. What's
lacking is the will to stick to the principles that made it great. I'd be
a
lot happier if the socialist wannabe's weren't constantly undermining it
with ideas that have never worked elsewhere long term, and certainly won't
here. Certainly you're intelligent enough to understand that.

What makes this country great is a pretty complicated thing George.
And it's not just *one* thing. The idea of taxing workers to take
care of old folks is at its heart a socialist idea - because it
means re-distributing money from folks who have it, to folks who
*don't*.

I maintain that one reason why this country is great, is because
we take care of old folks and don't just push them off on an ice
floe. (mostly)

You can argue, like gunner does, that there's *better* ways of
doing it. You can argue that we should never, in principle,
redistribute income in a socialist manner like that at all. But
honestly (and I'm not being tongue-in-cheek now) you're never
going to change the fact that our goverment works by taxing folks.

If you think you can, you're going to sorely disapointed and really
would be much happier living someplace where they don't have
taxes.


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

On Sun, 3 Apr 2005 03:11:42 -0400, the inscrutable "Ed Huntress"
spake:

"wmbjk" wrote in message
--snippage--
blogs could be humorous. Imagine a web site extolling the virtues of
black powder ingestion to cure pneumonia.... :-)

It could be a very Darwinian phenomenon, especially for smokers. . .

vbg


Speaking of BP, though, there *was* some ailment for which BP was a home
remedy. I can't remember what it is. 'Ever hear of it?

Could it be from the sulphur in the mixture?

Cauterizing bullet and other deep wounds? (Ouch! 'Twas a great
Hollywood stunt effect as shown by Dolph Lundgren in Red Scorpion.)


---------------------------------------------------------------
Never put off 'til tomorrow | http://www.diversify.com
what you can avoid altogether. | Dynamic Website Applications
---------------------------------------------------------------

The taxpayer would not make up the difference. But if the choice is to
put 4% of your salary into stocks and the rest is the current Social
Security system, the hurt would not be too severe. If the choice is
limited to an index of stocks, then one stock tanking would not mean
that all of the investment in stocks would not tank. Since we are not
talking about those close to retirement, it is very unlikely that
funds invested ten or more years ago would be below the purchase price
( five years could be a problem ).

I have some stock in that large blue company. I bought it at hundreds
of dollars a share. Something like $500 or $600 / share back in about
1961 or 62. Could only afford a few shares. But take a look at what
say $3000 invested in big blue in 62 would be worth today. And also
what it would have been worth when your acquaintance sold. And finally
figure out what that would buy in an guaranteed monthly income from an
insurance company for a man aged 65. I have not done it, but guess
that it would be worth about $1000 / month.


Dan

On Sun, 3 Apr 2005 10:55:09 -0400, the inscrutable "Ed Huntress"
spake:

I think we're seeing the emergence of a new religion, a new focal point
about which people can orbit their concept of the universe. The Web,
collectively, may become a sort of diety for generations to come. Everything
you need to know is in there. The Web is the Truth and the Way.

AMEN, brother Ed.


Unfortunately, it's a crazy one. g

Perhaps, but maybe not so much in this case. Clarke talks of
homeopathics. That's proven medicine. A 3x trituration may contain
enough sulphur or charcoal components (+ others) to work well.


---------------------------------------------------------------
Never put off 'til tomorrow | http://www.diversify.com
what you can avoid altogether. | Dynamic Website Applications
---------------------------------------------------------------

I agree with you, Jim. At least right up to the present. Social
Security worked great for a long time. But think it could be better
and could have been better.

Since Social Security is a pay as you go system, maybe the payroll
taxes should be just enough to pay the costs and not provide any extra
cash for Congress to spend.
The benefit would be more money available for Joe Sixpack to spend or
save as he/she feels like they want to do. Which would result in other
changes. Maybe Social Security could then be changed so that it paid
even less to those that earned more.
After all they would have had a chance to save more.


Dan

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 3 Apr 2005 03:11:42 -0400, the inscrutable "Ed Huntress"
spake:

"wmbjk" wrote in message
--snippage--
blogs could be humorous. Imagine a web site extolling the virtues of
black powder ingestion to cure pneumonia.... :-)

It could be a very Darwinian phenomenon, especially for smokers. . .

vbg


Speaking of BP, though, there *was* some ailment for which BP was a home
remedy. I can't remember what it is. 'Ever hear of it?

Could it be from the sulphur in the mixture?

Well, it had to be the sulfur, or the saltpeter, or the charcoal.

d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 3 Apr 2005 10:55:09 -0400, the inscrutable "Ed Huntress"
spake:

I think we're seeing the emergence of a new religion, a new focal point
about which people can orbit their concept of the universe. The Web,
collectively, may become a sort of diety for generations to come.
Everything
you need to know is in there. The Web is the Truth and the Way.

AMEN, brother Ed.


Unfortunately, it's a crazy one. g

Perhaps, but maybe not so much in this case. Clarke talks of
homeopathics. That's proven medicine. A 3x trituration may contain
enough sulphur or charcoal components (+ others) to work well.

Either that, or it will pickle you well enough that you could be put up in
Mason jars for eternity.

--
Ed Huntress

In article .com,
says...

... And also
what it would have been worth when your acquaintance sold.

He LOST money on that one, Dan. A LOT. He would have been
far ahead, if he had took is original investment, burned
half of it, and put the other half under his mattress!

Sometimes the market goes down, and you have to sell under
those conditions.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

In article , Gunner says...

Btw...dont pay your taxes. Sooner or later, large men with guns will
come along and make you pay.

You've mistake me for George Will. That's what *he* wants.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

In article , George Willer says...

Does anyone think there is actually a way to permanently repair this Ponzi
scheme so it won't eventually collapse? What are you smoking?

Ponzi Scheme? That's not a ponzi scheme. A ponzi scheme is
where an entire *country* spends billions of dollars that it
doesn't have. Now THAT's a Ponzi Scheme!!

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

In article , Ed Huntress says...

Well, it had to be the sulfur, or the saltpeter, or the charcoal.

Stay away from the salpeter Ed.

A co-worker said they used to put that in the mashed potatoes
when he was in the service in WW2. He said the cooks never
broke it up, so they got big lumps of it on their plates....

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

"But I am bright enough to figure out that on the balance, the SS program
has done more good than bad during its existence. "

But there's the rub! You and many others don't see the inevitable crash in
the near future that will erase any possible short term good it may have
done. The future crash was built in right at the start. Those who don't
recognize that it is coming are willfully ignorant. There just simply is no
way to defeat the demographics. Our President has proposed a very small
patch that could delay the crash just a little (too little). Has anything
else been proposed other then printing money, reducing benefits, raising the
retirement age, or raising taxes?

George Willer

Jim,

I don't intend to educate you on what a Ponzi scheme is, but I do suggest
you look it up.

George Willer

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , George Willer says...

Does anyone think there is actually a way to permanently repair this Ponzi
scheme so it won't eventually collapse? What are you smoking?

Ponzi Scheme? That's not a ponzi scheme. A ponzi scheme is
where an entire *country* spends billions of dollars that it
doesn't have. Now THAT's a Ponzi Scheme!!

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

But how long did he hold it? I would guess it was less than 10 years.
Making a bet that a stock will be up in three years is not a great bet.
Betting that it will be up in ten years is close to a sure thing (
much better if it is not just one stock ). I think that betting that
the stock market ( say the top 500 stocks as in the S & P 500 ) will be
up over twenty years has so far been a sure thing. Future performance
not guaranteed, but...............

I have managed to lose money on stocks. But not on all of them. And
the good have made up for the bad.


Dan

On Sun, 3 Apr 2005 15:56:57 -0400, the inscrutable "Ed Huntress"
spake:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
Perhaps, but maybe not so much in this case. Clarke talks of
homeopathics. That's proven medicine. A 3x trituration may contain
enough sulphur or charcoal components (+ others) to work well.

Either that, or it will pickle you well enough that you could be put up in
Mason jars for eternity.

A 0.1% (1/1000) solution? Wuss.


---------------------------------------------------------------
Never put off 'til tomorrow | http://www.diversify.com
what you can avoid altogether. | Dynamic Website Applications
---------------------------------------------------------------

On Sun, 3 Apr 2005 15:54:18 -0400, the inscrutable "Ed Huntress"
spake:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 3 Apr 2005 03:11:42 -0400, the inscrutable "Ed Huntress"
spake:

"wmbjk" wrote in message
--snippage--
blogs could be humorous. Imagine a web site extolling the virtues of
black powder ingestion to cure pneumonia.... :-)

It could be a very Darwinian phenomenon, especially for smokers. . .

vbg


Speaking of BP, though, there *was* some ailment for which BP was a home
remedy. I can't remember what it is. 'Ever hear of it?

Could it be from the sulphur in the mixture?

Well, it had to be the sulfur, or the saltpeter, or the charcoal.

d8-)

Fairy funny. Both sulfur and charcoal are drawing agents with
anti-bacterial properties. Dunno 'bout niter.


---------------------------------------------------------------
Never put off 'til tomorrow | http://www.diversify.com
what you can avoid altogether. | Dynamic Website Applications
---------------------------------------------------------------

"Gunner" wrote in message
news

Other than that, she is doing well enough. Ive gained a bit of
respect. She keeps a positive attitude most of the time, even though
she is home alone 4-5 nights a week. This week, she will be home alone
10 straight days. Well..the dogs are there.

They finally diagnosed her as having Factor 5/Leiden

snip

Holy cow. I don't think I've ever heard of that many contrary indications
and interactions. She must be pretty tough to put up with it.

That's an example of where medicine is going. Just trying to balance those
things probably would have been impossible ten or fifteen years ago. So,
it's easy to hate Big Pharma, but they're keeping a lot of people alive.

--
Ed Huntress

"George Willer" wrote in message
...
Ed,

Forgive me for being just an uneducated bumpkin who never went to college,
but we are looking at different things.

Just to qualify it, I didn't question Jim's intelligence, and certainly
didn't question yours. I don't, however, confuse exposure to education
with intelligence. We simply differ on the value of converting to
socialist
programs that cause more harm than good.

You said "intelligence." I'm just taking you at your word, George.

I do and always have recognized
the impending disaster that was set up when SS was first put in place, for
example. I think it was about 3rd grade when we learned to do the math.

That must have been some math. The top economists in the country still don't
know what's going to happen. They're doing politics, not math, making the
assumptions that further their causes.

Rates of immigration, the flat spot in the curve of extended lifespans, the
effect of declining, then flattening birth rates. . .these are things that
keep good actuaries busy in full-time jobs. You're 70? To have predicted the
baby boom before WWII even happened, or the swing in several key trends that
include the declining birth rate, was quite an accomplishment.

There was no "math" to do, George. The future, which is to say today's
situation, was unknown when you were in 3rd grade. It was unknown when you
were a young man. If you look at how much influence even small swings in the
economy influence the future of SS, you'd realize that.


I'm not really upset, just recognize the reality that many of you who are
so
fond of socialism don't wish to move where it is stronger. There are many
possibilities in the world.

What do you call "socialism"? Get specific. Let's hear what programs you
object to. Tell us which ones you'd eliminate.


Public security is bull****! There is no such thing... only the illusion
of
security.

There is no private security. There is no such thing, as millions of people
realized just a few years before you were born. You must have missed it.

--
Ed Huntress

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 3 Apr 2005 15:54:18 -0400, the inscrutable "Ed Huntress"
spake:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 3 Apr 2005 03:11:42 -0400, the inscrutable "Ed Huntress"
spake:

"wmbjk" wrote in message
--snippage--
blogs could be humorous. Imagine a web site extolling the virtues of
black powder ingestion to cure pneumonia.... :-)

It could be a very Darwinian phenomenon, especially for smokers. . .

vbg


Speaking of BP, though, there *was* some ailment for which BP was a
home
remedy. I can't remember what it is. 'Ever hear of it?

Could it be from the sulphur in the mixture?

Well, it had to be the sulfur, or the saltpeter, or the charcoal.

d8-)

Fairy funny. Both sulfur and charcoal are drawing agents with
anti-bacterial properties. Dunno 'bout niter.

It's available as a generic. Look for "Explosidine." If it doesn't cure you,
you can put yourself out of your misery and blow yourself to hell.

--
Ed Huntress

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Gunner" wrote in message
news

Other than that, she is doing well enough. Ive gained a bit of
respect. She keeps a positive attitude most of the time, even though
she is home alone 4-5 nights a week. This week, she will be home alone
10 straight days. Well..the dogs are there.

They finally diagnosed her as having Factor 5/Leiden

snip

Holy cow. I don't think I've ever heard of that many contrary indications
and interactions. She must be pretty tough to put up with it.

That's an example of where medicine is going. Just trying to balance those
things probably would have been impossible ten or fifteen years ago. So,
it's easy to hate Big Pharma, but they're keeping a lot of people alive.


Ed,
There was a guy here in LA doing venom studies in an attempt to treat
diabetes - Dr. John Eng at UCLA.
Are you familiar with his work?
The drug they were testing had a great deal of promise and among its
benefits were weight loss and stimulated insulin production.
I am pretty sure you know your way around both the disease and the state of
the art in treatment and yes, there is more behind this message than an idle
search for interesting info.


--
John R. Carroll
Machining Solution Software, Inc.
Los Angeles San Francisco
www.machiningsolution.com

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
"George Willer" wrote in message
...
Ed,

Forgive me for being just an uneducated bumpkin who never went to
college,
but we are looking at different things.

Just to qualify it, I didn't question Jim's intelligence, and certainly
didn't question yours. I don't, however, confuse exposure to education
with intelligence. We simply differ on the value of converting to
socialist
programs that cause more harm than good.

You said "intelligence." I'm just taking you at your word, George.

Then take me at my word and go back to see the context. I gave Jim credit
for having the intelligence to understand.

I do and always have recognized
the impending disaster that was set up when SS was first put in place,
for
example. I think it was about 3rd grade when we learned to do the math.

That must have been some math. The top economists in the country still
don't
know what's going to happen. They're doing politics, not math, making the
assumptions that further their causes.

Most ordinary citizens know what the long term effects of declining birth
rates and increasing retirees with their longer life spans will have on S S.
Yes, we could easily have figured it out in grade school that there would be
a day of reckoning... just not exactly when. Top economists? Phooey!


Rates of immigration, the flat spot in the curve of extended lifespans,
the
effect of declining, then flattening birth rates. . .these are things that
keep good actuaries busy in full-time jobs. You're 70? To have predicted
the
baby boom before WWII even happened, or the swing in several key trends
that
include the declining birth rate, was quite an accomplishment.

There was no "math" to do, George. The future, which is to say today's
situation, was unknown when you were in 3rd grade. It was unknown when you
were a young man. If you look at how much influence even small swings in
the
economy influence the future of SS, you'd realize that.


I'm not really upset, just recognize the reality that many of you who are
so
fond of socialism don't wish to move where it is stronger. There are
many
possibilities in the world.

What do you call "socialism"? Get specific. Let's hear what programs you
object to. Tell us which ones you'd eliminate.

For starters, I would eliminate every program that no Constitutional basis.
Redistributing the rewards for one's efforts by force is at the top of the
list. What new Marxist socialist programs would you like to start?


Public security is bull****! There is no such thing... only the illusion
of
security.

There is no private security. There is no such thing, as millions of
people
realized just a few years before you were born. You must have missed it.

No, I didn't miss the great depression. I lived with it's aftermath every
day until I left home at 18. I worked very hard to secure my family's
security the only way to be truly secure... with skill, ambition, and hard
work.
I have much more confidence in my own ability than in the ability of the
government to provide for my security. You should too. The fact that many
don't is a sad thing.

George Willer

--
Ed Huntress

"J. R. Carroll" wrote in message
m...

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Gunner" wrote in message
news

Other than that, she is doing well enough. Ive gained a bit of
respect. She keeps a positive attitude most of the time, even though
she is home alone 4-5 nights a week. This week, she will be home alone
10 straight days. Well..the dogs are there.

They finally diagnosed her as having Factor 5/Leiden

snip

Holy cow. I don't think I've ever heard of that many contrary
indications
and interactions. She must be pretty tough to put up with it.

That's an example of where medicine is going. Just trying to balance
those
things probably would have been impossible ten or fifteen years ago. So,
it's easy to hate Big Pharma, but they're keeping a lot of people alive.


Ed,
There was a guy here in LA doing venom studies in an attempt to treat
diabetes - Dr. John Eng at UCLA.
Are you familiar with his work?
The drug they were testing had a great deal of promise and among its
benefits were weight loss and stimulated insulin production.

Hi, John. No, I haven't heard of this work, but it sounds like something for
type II diabetes. There's a lot of that going on all the time, and I usually
ignore it because it doesn't relate to what my son and I have. There is no
way to "stimulate" insulin production in a juvenile diabetic, known as a
type I. The cells for producing insulin are long gone. The research for type
I is focused mainly on replacing those cells, with human or animal cells.
It's a hot prospect for fetal stem-cell research.

I am pretty sure you know your way around both the disease and the state
of
the art in treatment and yes, there is more behind this message than an
idle
search for interesting info.

Again, 9 out of 10 diabetics are type II, or "adult onset." This is a
complex of several related conditions. Type I is the type that one usually
gets in childhood. It involves complete destruction of the cells that
produce insulin.

Do you have someone close to you who has recently been diagnosed with
diabetes?

--
Ed Huntress

"George Willer" wrote in message
...

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
"George Willer" wrote in message
...
Ed,

Forgive me for being just an uneducated bumpkin who never went to
college,
but we are looking at different things.

Just to qualify it, I didn't question Jim's intelligence, and certainly
didn't question yours. I don't, however, confuse exposure to
education
with intelligence. We simply differ on the value of converting to
socialist
programs that cause more harm than good.

You said "intelligence." I'm just taking you at your word, George.

Then take me at my word and go back to see the context. I gave Jim credit
for having the intelligence to understand.

I do and always have recognized
the impending disaster that was set up when SS was first put in place,
for
example. I think it was about 3rd grade when we learned to do the
math.

That must have been some math. The top economists in the country still
don't
know what's going to happen. They're doing politics, not math, making
the
assumptions that further their causes.

Most ordinary citizens know what the long term effects of declining birth
rates and increasing retirees with their longer life spans will have on S
S.

Most don't. I'm not going to belabor statistics here, but here's a brief
sampler. The US Bureau of the Census's projections for the US population in
2042 versus today (2042 is a key year in some of the SS debates, which is
why I chose it):

2005 (as of yesterday):
295,801,760
2042, low estimate:
314,707,000
2042, high estimate:
490,401,000
2042, "zero international migration series" (you can figure that one out):
322,506,000
2042, "middle series" (best-guess, in other words)
382,555,000

Look at the size of that range, George: between 314 million and 490 million.
Jeez. The most accurate way to interpret it is that Census doesn't have a
freaking idea of what the population will be. Neither does anyone else. The
gap between "zero immigration" (there is very little emigration from the US)
and "best guess" is almost 70,000,000 people. Those are immigrants, and
they'll be working, assuming that any of us are. g But what will our
immigration policies be? Do you know?

About birthrates: The rates went UP after you were in 3rd grade, George, not
down. They hit a peak in the early '50s. So where were you getting the idea
that the birth rate was going down when you were in 3rd grade? If you got
that idea from somewhere, you did your arithmetic wrong. And nobody was
predicting the kind of decline we had over the past few decades. That's a
new phenomenon. Neither you, nor anyone else, had a clue.

As for lifespan, the U of Chicago med school is predicting a 2- to 5-year
DECLINE in average lifespan in the US within 20 years. The average lifespan
isn't the figure you want, anyway: it's distorted by higher infant mortality
rates in the early part of the last century, so it tells you nothing about
the relationship of workers to retirees. The figure you want is "life
expectancy at 65." In the last 25 years, it's increased by only 1.4 years.

So you really had nothing to go on but a bunch of bunk, which is what George
Bush is running on now. The people who do this kind of actuarial analysis
for a living will tell you the same thing, that the current situation faced
by SS is the result of the post-WWII baby boom, not the result of some
structural fault with SS. It can be fixed, if we decide that fixing it is
what we want to do.

Yes, we could easily have figured it out in grade school that there would
be
a day of reckoning... just not exactly when. Top economists? Phooey!

sigh Sometimes I wonder how we survive as a democracy. . .


What do you call "socialism"? Get specific. Let's hear what programs you
object to. Tell us which ones you'd eliminate.

For starters, I would eliminate every program that no Constitutional
basis.

Well, there goes the Army and Air Force. I think we get to keep the Navy.
Some people will be happy to get their slaves back. . .

Redistributing the rewards for one's efforts by force is at the top of the
list. What new Marxist socialist programs would you like to start?


Public security is bull****! There is no such thing... only the
illusion
of
security.

There is no private security. There is no such thing, as millions of
people
realized just a few years before you were born. You must have missed it.

No, I didn't miss the great depression. I lived with it's aftermath every
day until I left home at 18. I worked very hard to secure my family's
security the only way to be truly secure... with skill, ambition, and hard
work.

Well, a few tens of millions of people lost their shirts during the
Depression. That's why you had to work so hard -- because your "security"
had gone to hell, and you had to start all over again. That's not
"security." That's *recovery*, which is exactly what my father and
grandfather had to do, too.

So, you rebuilt your security. And now George Bush wants to put people right
back where they were in 1929: living on an imaginary cloud of private
"security." Bull****. If you didn't learn it then, then you're not likely to
learn it now.

I doubt if anything will change your mind, George, so believe what you want.
But the fact is, you had no idea what was going to happen to SS then, and
you have no idea now. Neither does anyone else.

One thing is certain, though, from any real actuarial analysis of the facts.
Social Security can get over this hump and it can be saved, if we want to
save it. If we become convinced that it can't be saved, then we'll find a
way to destroy it. The question is how many people thought they had it all
figured out when they were in 3rd grade.

--
Ed Huntress

On 3 Apr 2005 13:06:39 -0700, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Gunner says...

Btw...dont pay your taxes. Sooner or later, large men with guns will
come along and make you pay.

You've mistake me for George Will. That's what *he* wants.

Jim

Im sorry to have to tell you Jim, but since you made no effort to make
arraingements to send me the $10,000 Im having a number of armed
individuals remove anything you have of value, including cash, and
then give me the money. (less administration costs of course)

"That's the idea that sticks so hard in the neocon craw - SS
takes their money and gives it to other folks.
Jim"

Obviously, you will have no problem with this, so please just stand
aside and let the men work.

Gunner


Rule #35
"That which does not kill you,
has made a huge tactical error"

Gunner piddled around and finally wrote:

On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 18:02:47 GMT, wmbjk
wrote:

you've refused
to spend 15 minutes learning how to make some elementary calculations,

What part of "The investigation continues" do you not understand,
****wit?

It's *because* he's a ****tard he'll never get it.

On Sun, 3 Apr 2005 23:05:43 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
news

Other than that, she is doing well enough. Ive gained a bit of
respect. She keeps a positive attitude most of the time, even though
she is home alone 4-5 nights a week. This week, she will be home alone
10 straight days. Well..the dogs are there.

They finally diagnosed her as having Factor 5/Leiden

snip

Holy cow. I don't think I've ever heard of that many contrary indications
and interactions. She must be pretty tough to put up with it.

Ive learned to respect her a bit more because of how she is handling
it.
That's an example of where medicine is going. Just trying to balance those
things probably would have been impossible ten or fifteen years ago. So,
it's easy to hate Big Pharma, but they're keeping a lot of people alive.

She has weekly or biweekly blood tests to make sure her blood is not
too thick, not to thin..balancing her is very difficult.
Ive seen her stop, sneeze and blow a blood spray pattern for 4' on the
floor or wall. That means she is a bit thin....more than once.

She has taken a very pro-active interest in her own treatment, and
gotten very knowlegeable on the issues and any new
treatments..sigh..its become her hobby I think

I think she is again due for another angioplasty (6 already) as she is
exhibiting the same symptoms she always does, though they are getting
farther and farther apart. The big problem is...as with any invasive
procedure..they have to thicken up her blood, as a pin hole somewhere
will cause her to bleed out. Not to mention the repeated damage the
arteries have undergone by the RotoRooter treatment. They schedule a
full surgical team to be standing by whenever she is being treated in
the cath lab. They pop an artery..and she will be dead in less than
10 minutes unless they get her into surgery and opened fast. Much
less.

And of course, the brusing she has...she had a 2x4 piece of plywood
fall over and hit her in both shins 2 weeks ago. Her legs, even the
bottom of her feet look like she was badly beaten for hours.

Shrug...sometimes its a bitch for both of us.

gunner


Not a fun way to live.
Rule #35
"That which does not kill you,
has made a huge tactical error"

In article , Gunner says...

Im sorry to have to tell you Jim, but since you made no effort to make
arraingements to send me the $10,000 Im having a number of armed
individuals remove anything you have of value, including cash, and
then give me the money. (less administration costs of course)

Well you had better have them bring a team of riggers. Most
of my investments are tied up in cast iron. Oh, and have them
bring some waterproof boots while you're at it. We had a bit
of rain this past weekend....

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

In article , Ed Huntress says...

What do you call "socialism"? Get specific. Let's hear what programs you
object to. Tell us which ones you'd eliminate.

For starters, I would eliminate every program that no Constitutional
basis.

Well, there goes the Army and Air Force. I think we get to keep the Navy.
Some people will be happy to get their slaves back. . .

It's so funny that I defend this stuff when I have little to lose
at this point. I'm a pay*er* into the system, not a payee. It's
guys like gunner who would be hurt, if they stopped one of those
other non-constitutional programs like medicade. This is an even
bigger problem then SS, but nobody's suggesting it be 'fixed.'

George, would you eliminate medicade too if you had your druthers?

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

In article .com,
says...

But how long did he hold it? I would guess it was less than 10 years.

I think he was buying it as soon as his first daughter was born.
And he had to sell it to begin financing her college education.
So that pretty much puts it around 18 or so years.

This was a case of "all the eggs in one basket" but then, I suspect
some of the folks would invest their privatized SS money that
same way.

And they'd get skunked, just like this guy did.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

On Sun, 3 Apr 2005 23:30:25 -0400, the inscrutable "Ed Huntress"
spake:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 3 Apr 2005 15:54:18 -0400, the inscrutable "Ed Huntress"
spake:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 3 Apr 2005 03:11:42 -0400, the inscrutable "Ed Huntress"
spake:

"wmbjk" wrote in message
--snippage--
blogs could be humorous. Imagine a web site extolling the virtues of
black powder ingestion to cure pneumonia.... :-)

It could be a very Darwinian phenomenon, especially for smokers. . .

vbg


Speaking of BP, though, there *was* some ailment for which BP was a
home
remedy. I can't remember what it is. 'Ever hear of it?

Could it be from the sulphur in the mixture?

Well, it had to be the sulfur, or the saltpeter, or the charcoal.

d8-)

Fairy funny. Both sulfur and charcoal are drawing agents with
anti-bacterial properties. Dunno 'bout niter.

It's available as a generic. Look for "Explosidine." If it doesn't cure you,
you can put yourself out of your misery and blow yourself to hell.

From Google: Did you mean: explosion

No standard web pages containing all your search terms were found.
Your search - explosidine - did not match any documents.

Ditto "explosedine", "explosedene", "explosidene", "explosidyne",
"explosedyne." A9 gives me the same nogo on "Explosidine." Speaking
of which, if you buy books through Amazon, Think of using A9 to search
first. I did that and then ordered a book. There was a 10% savings
attached when I went to check out, a happy surprise. I wonder if that
still applies.


P.S: Whuffo you nevah learnt to snip messages, Ed?
(I left the entire thread above to show you why we should learn this
simple task.)

---------------------------------------------------------------
Never put off 'til tomorrow | http://www.diversify.com
what you can avoid altogether. | Dynamic Website Applications
---------------------------------------------------------------

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
"J. R. Carroll" wrote in message
m...

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Gunner" wrote in message
news

Other than that, she is doing well enough. Ive gained a bit of
respect. She keeps a positive attitude most of the time, even though
she is home alone 4-5 nights a week. This week, she will be home
alone
10 straight days. Well..the dogs are there.

They finally diagnosed her as having Factor 5/Leiden

snip

Holy cow. I don't think I've ever heard of that many contrary
indications
and interactions. She must be pretty tough to put up with it.

That's an example of where medicine is going. Just trying to balance
those
things probably would have been impossible ten or fifteen years ago.
So,
it's easy to hate Big Pharma, but they're keeping a lot of people
alive.


Ed,
There was a guy here in LA doing venom studies in an attempt to treat
diabetes - Dr. John Eng at UCLA.
Are you familiar with his work?
The drug they were testing had a great deal of promise and among its
benefits were weight loss and stimulated insulin production.

Hi, John. No, I haven't heard of this work, but it sounds like something
for
type II diabetes. There's a lot of that going on all the time, and I
usually
ignore it because it doesn't relate to what my son and I have. There is no
way to "stimulate" insulin production in a juvenile diabetic, known as a
type I. The cells for producing insulin are long gone. The research for
type
I is focused mainly on replacing those cells, with human or animal cells.
It's a hot prospect for fetal stem-cell research.

I am pretty sure you know your way around both the disease and the state
of
the art in treatment and yes, there is more behind this message than an
idle
search for interesting info.

Again, 9 out of 10 diabetics are type II, or "adult onset." This is a
complex of several related conditions. Type I is the type that one usually
gets in childhood. It involves complete destruction of the cells that
produce insulin.

Do you have someone close to you who has recently been diagnosed with
diabetes?


Ed,
I found a little info on this treatment and it looked promising but the
phase 3 trials haven't reported yet.
The last reported trial was a drug named AC2993 ( synthetic Exendin-4) and
that was in 2003. Amylin Pharmaceuticals, Inc., is in San Diego and I may
give them a call. The results of their trial were on the ADA web site.





--
John R. Carroll
Machining Solution Software, Inc.
Los Angeles San Francisco
www.machiningsolution.com

On 4 Apr 2005 05:35:55 -0700, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Gunner says...

Im sorry to have to tell you Jim, but since you made no effort to make
arraingements to send me the $10,000 Im having a number of armed
individuals remove anything you have of value, including cash, and
then give me the money. (less administration costs of course)

Well you had better have them bring a team of riggers. Most
of my investments are tied up in cast iron. Oh, and have them
bring some waterproof boots while you're at it. We had a bit
of rain this past weekend....

Jim

Not an issue. We are glad you are being cooperative. In fact, based on
the data you supplied, we have decided to auction off your property on
site, and let the buyers do the moving.

Gunner

Rule #35
"That which does not kill you,
has made a huge tactical error"

George, would you eliminate medicade too if you had your druthers?

Jim

Certainly... wouldn't you? Which article of the Constitution do you think
it's based on? Do you still believe in Santa Claus?

George Willer

Most ordinary citizens know what the long term effects of declining birth
rates and increasing retirees with their longer life spans will have on S
S.

Most don't. I'm not going to belabor statistics here, but here's a brief
sampler. The US Bureau of the Census's projections for the US population
in
2042 versus today (2042 is a key year in some of the SS debates, which is
why I chose it):

2005 (as of yesterday):
295,801,760
2042, low estimate:
314,707,000
2042, high estimate:
490,401,000
2042, "zero international migration series" (you can figure that one out):
322,506,000
2042, "middle series" (best-guess, in other words)
382,555,000

Look at the size of that range, George: between 314 million and 490
million.
Jeez. The most accurate way to interpret it is that Census doesn't have a
freaking idea of what the population will be. Neither does anyone else.
The
gap between "zero immigration" (there is very little emigration from the
US)
and "best guess" is almost 70,000,000 people. Those are immigrants, and
they'll be working, assuming that any of us are. g But what will our
immigration policies be? Do you know?

You can try to cloud the issue with bull****, but the fact remains... the
ratio of those paying in to the system relative to those receiving payment
is and will continue in the same direction... the direction that is fatal to
the system. Why is that truth so hard to admit. Is it because your liberal
idealogy is clouding your thinking?

About birthrates: The rates went UP after you were in 3rd grade, George,
not
down. They hit a peak in the early '50s. So where were you getting the
idea
that the birth rate was going down when you were in 3rd grade?

Don't lecture me about the low birth rate brought on by the depression...
I'm very faminiar with it. I was there, remember. I'm also familiar with
the birth rate that brought on the baby boom. However, the ratio of
beneficiaries to benefactors was and still is moving in the direction that
will be fatal for the system. That's an elemental fact! Get a clue.

If you got
that idea from somewhere, you did your arithmetic wrong. And nobody was
predicting the kind of decline we had over the past few decades. That's a
new phenomenon. Neither you, nor anyone else, had a clue.

Speak for yourself. The sad reason for the decling birth rate is well
known. Those of us with a clue could easily predict it. That's another
whole 'nother liberal issue.

As for lifespan, the U of Chicago med school is predicting a 2- to 5-year
DECLINE in average lifespan in the US within 20 years. The average
lifespan
isn't the figure you want, anyway: it's distorted by higher infant
mortality
rates in the early part of the last century, so it tells you nothing about
the relationship of workers to retirees. The figure you want is "life
expectancy at 65." In the last 25 years, it's increased by only 1.4 years.

But the cold fact remains that it is increasing. More BS... what on Earth
does the infant high mortality in the early part of the last century have to
do with future lifespan DECLINE? I do know about those high rates... My
GGparents raised 5 of their 10 children to adulthood. Do you want to hear
the sad story of burying two of them within twenty miles of their
destination when they immigrated?


So you really had nothing to go on but a bunch of bunk, which is what
George
Bush is running on now. The people who do this kind of actuarial analysis
for a living will tell you the same thing, that the current situation
faced
by SS is the result of the post-WWII baby boom, not the result of some
structural fault with SS. It can be fixed, if we decide that fixing it is
what we want to do.

How... euthanasia? Pollyanna would be proud.

Yes, we could easily have figured it out in grade school that there would
be
a day of reckoning... just not exactly when. Top economists? Phooey!

sigh Sometimes I wonder how we survive as a democracy. . .

sigh Democracy = mob rule. We have to become more aware of our
responsibility when electing our representitives for our representitive
republic. Their most important duty is to select our judiciary to enforce
the laws AS WRITTEN, rather than legislate from the bench. Filibusters are
making it increasingly difficult.


What do you call "socialism"? Get specific. Let's hear what programs
you
object to. Tell us which ones you'd eliminate.

For starters, I would eliminate every program that no Constitutional
basis.

Well, there goes the Army and Air Force. I think we get to keep the Navy.
Some people will be happy to get their slaves back. . .

What!!! Protecting our shores is one of the most important Constitutional
duties. Read the document! Clue... check the preamble first.


Redistributing the rewards for one's efforts by force is at the top of
the
list. What new Marxist socialist programs would you like to start?


Public security is bull****! There is no such thing... only the
illusion
of
security.

There is no private security. There is no such thing, as millions of
people
realized just a few years before you were born. You must have missed
it.

No, I didn't miss the great depression. I lived with it's aftermath
every
day until I left home at 18. I worked very hard to secure my family's
security the only way to be truly secure... with skill, ambition, and
hard
work.

Well, a few tens of millions of people lost their shirts during the
Depression. That's why you had to work so hard -- because your "security"
had gone to hell, and you had to start all over again. That's not
"security." That's *recovery*, which is exactly what my father and
grandfather had to do, too.

So, you rebuilt your security. And now George Bush wants to put people
right
back where they were in 1929: living on an imaginary cloud of private
"security." Bull****. If you didn't learn it then, then you're not likely
to
learn it now.

Maybe you should study the 1929 crash in more detail. Then you would better
understand the dot.com bubble. It had NOTHING to do with skill, ambition,
or hard work.

I doubt if anything will change your mind, George, so believe what you
want.
But the fact is, you had no idea what was going to happen to SS then, and
you have no idea now. Neither does anyone else.

It's dangerous to imagine what other people don't know... especially when
based on what you yourself don't know.

One thing is certain, though, from any real actuarial analysis of the
facts.
Social Security can get over this hump and it can be saved, if we want to
save it. If we become convinced that it can't be saved, then we'll find a
way to destroy it. The question is how many people thought they had it all
figured out when they were in 3rd grade.

Try to understand what someone less eloquent than yourself is saying. The
math necessary to understand the SS mess was learned in the 3rd grade. OK,
maybe it was 4th.

George Willer

--
Ed Huntress

The exact numbers may change, but I remember listening to a lecture
while I was in high school on the changing demographics which presented
all the factors why the Social Security system would have to be
changed. Longer lifetimes were definately expected. Fewer workers
relative to the retired folks. Even the declining birth rate.

The baby boom and the rate of immigration only change the when , not
the inevitable.


Dan