Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Colin Jacobs
 
Posts: n/a
Default melting Lead

A bit OT but as you are all engineers What is the melting point of lead? If
I melt it are the fumes poisonous?

What is the best vessel to melt lead in?



  #2   Report Post  
Gunner
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 16:52:46 GMT, "Colin Jacobs"
wrote:

A bit OT but as you are all engineers What is the melting point of lead? If
I melt it are the fumes poisonous?

What is the best vessel to melt lead in?


full melt or liquidus?

It goes soft (depending on alloy) about 525, and is liquid (depending
on alloy about 575F. It generally needs to be about 600-650 to cast
any detail.

The fumes can be toxic if you lean over and sniff them for long
periods. Melt outside or with a fan going. Ventilation.

Anything with a melting point higher than 700F. for a container.

Be advised..lead is HEAVY. So the container needs to be Strong and
rigid and easy to handle when its filled with molten metal.

If you have specifics. I can help

Gunner


Lathe Dementia. Recognized as one of the major sub-strains of the
all-consuming virus, Packratitis. Usual symptoms easily recognized
and normally is contracted for life. Can be very contagious.
michael
  #3   Report Post  
Howard
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Find an OLD plumber (about 55 or older) that knows what a lead oakum
joint is. He should still have his lead pot and ladle and maybe even
his propane tnaker and burner for the leadpot.

  #4   Report Post  
Tim Williams
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Colin Jacobs" wrote in message
...
A bit OT but as you are all engineers What is the melting point of lead?


619F IIRC

If I melt it are the fumes poisonous?


Marginally; uncommon sense says to stay out of the fumes...

What is the best vessel to melt lead in?


Tin can.

Tim

--
"California is the breakfast state: fruits, nuts and flakes."
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms


  #5   Report Post  
Jeff Wisnia
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Colin Jacobs wrote:

A bit OT but as you are all engineers What is the melting point of lead? If
I melt it are the fumes poisonous?

What is the best vessel to melt lead in?


Remember these?

http://home.comcast.net/~jwisnia18/t...d_soldiers.jpg

They were in every toy store when I was a kid, before the wusses and the
liability lawyers drove them to near extinction.

I dragged mine out last year to show a grandson how we had fun fun in
the pre-videogame daze. Truth be told, he didn't seem very
impressed....(But I sort of liked reliving it again.)

Thanks for the mammaries!

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"As long as there are final exams, there will be prayer in public
schools"


  #6   Report Post  
Brian Lawson
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 16:52:46 GMT, "Colin Jacobs"
wrote:

A bit OT but as you are all engineers What is the melting point of lead? If
I melt it are the fumes poisonous?

What is the best vessel to melt lead in?



Hey Colin,

I use a babbitt ladle. Of course, that's because I have one. Holds
10 pounds worth, maybe 3 cups worth maybe, with a pouring lip on
either side, and a long "D" handle.
We melt old wheel balance weights, and for what we're doing, we don't
care too much about the temperature, so I can't tell you degrees.
Certainly not too much hotter than it takes to char a small pine
sliver/chip. Not so hot it would catch the sliver on fire. When it's
hot enough, we just scoop the floating steel clips off . Dross comes
away with the clips, and its ready to pour.

Take care.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.

  #7   Report Post  
Nick Hull
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article ,
"Tim Williams" wrote:

"Colin Jacobs" wrote in message
...
A bit OT but as you are all engineers What is the melting point of lead?


619F IIRC

If I melt it are the fumes poisonous?


Marginally; uncommon sense says to stay out of the fumes...

What is the best vessel to melt lead in?


Tin can.

Tim


A small cheap cast iron cooking pot is excellent.

--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/
  #8   Report Post  
Harold and Susan Vordos
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Brian Lawson" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 16:52:46 GMT, "Colin Jacobs"
wrote:

A bit OT but as you are all engineers What is the melting point of lead?

If
I melt it are the fumes poisonous?

What is the best vessel to melt lead in?



Hey Colin,

I use a babbitt ladle. Of course, that's because I have one. Holds
10 pounds worth, maybe 3 cups worth maybe, with a pouring lip on
either side, and a long "D" handle.
We melt old wheel balance weights, and for what we're doing, we don't
care too much about the temperature, so I can't tell you degrees.
Certainly not too much hotter than it takes to char a small pine
sliver/chip. Not so hot it would catch the sliver on fire. When it's
hot enough, we just scoop the floating steel clips off . Dross comes
away with the clips, and its ready to pour.

Take care.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.


Yep! What Brian said. Add a little paraffin or bees wax to the heat just
before you skim off the steel pieces and it will clean up the metal very
nicely. Smokes a lot, but you can light the fumes and that goes away.
It's a good thing to do if you want clean metal.

Harold


  #9   Report Post  
Dave Hinz
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 16:52:46 GMT, Colin Jacobs wrote:
A bit OT but as you are all engineers What is the melting point of lead?


It depends on the alloy.

If
I melt it are the fumes poisonous?


They're hazardous, yes. You could google for "lead MSDS" and get a lot
of good information.

What is the best vessel to melt lead in?


I usually use an electric lead melting pot. Outside. If you could
tell us what you're trying to do, you could probably get a lot of good
information.

  #10   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Colin Jacobs wrote:
A bit OT but as you are all engineers What is the melting point of

lead? If
I melt it are the fumes poisonous?

What is the best vessel to melt lead in?


You melt lead OUTSIDE. I've done literally tons of it and I'm still
here. If it's a one-time thing, don't worry about inhaling fumes too
much. Yes, you can get poisoned by it after extensive use, wash your
hands after handling and don't each your lunch next to the firepot.
Stay upwind, too.

There are electric bullet casting furnaces available for $30-50(Lee) if
you want to do smallish casting jobs, much larger ones for more bucks.
These are probably the most convenient for repeated use. From there,
you can go to the old Coleman stove with a plumber's lead pot, these
are cast iron crucibles with bails. I've seen them in a particularly
well-equipped hardware store, but you don't want to pay those prices.
Look around for auctions and such, they usually go cheap. Sometimes
you can get a gas-fired or gasoline-fired lead furnace cheaply, poured
lead joints aren't much used anymore. Go with propane, if you can, the
gasoline-fired ones are a pain to use.

If you have just a small cast to do, look for a cast iron ladle, these
hold from a half-pound on up to several pounds, you can melt your alloy
right in there.

For makeshifts, small amounts can be directly melted using a stainless
steel spoon. For larger amounts, a large pipe cap could be
welded/brazed onto a shank and that used for melting and pouring. My
dad used a freebie cast iron dutch oven for melting wheel weights down
using the plumber's furnaces. If you use any kitchen utensil for
melting lead, make sure you mark it or otherwise make sure it's never
used for food service again. Leaving a heel of lead in there after
casting might do.

You need protection when melting lead, high-top leather shoes, cotton
pants, long-sleeve cotton shirt, welding gauntlets and a full face
shield at a minimum. I like using a welding leather apron and a
welding cape as well. There's nothing like getting spatter down
low-top canvas shoes to brighten up your day.



  #12   Report Post  
JohnM
 
Posts: n/a
Default

There's nothing like getting spatter down
low-top canvas shoes to brighten up your day.


I worked with a guy who seemed to be more concerned with how cool he
looked with his boot laces all dragging and the uppers and tongues
sticking outside his trouser legs than with the possible results of it..
I remember him sitting and screaming "Get it off!" as a big guy pulled
on his sock (I didn't know tube socks would stretch so far), he'd gotten
about a quarter-cup of molten aluminum down his boot and it really did a
number- burned the bones on the top of his foot, put him in the hospital
with a major blood poisoning. He was a miserable boy for a long time,
just about died from the blood poisoning.

The metatarsal boots are a little heavy but they sure do a good job of
protecting your feet from such stuff, saved me some pain a couple of
times in that shop.

John
  #13   Report Post  
Mark
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Due to ISP problems I could not follow the entire thread.

About burns from molten metal - I have been in the foundry business for
about 30 years and have had some serious burns twice and have seen some
nasty burns. Nearly always the burns are the result of either carelessness,
or because somehow proper drying of molds and tools was not done. In the
case of carelessness it is often not wearing proper equipment. Polyester or
nylon materials should not be worn. Most recently a burn in our foundry was
because an iron pourer was wearing a dew rag and did not have his helmet on.
A spark from the furnace caught the polyester material on fire quickly and
he was burned on the scalp. We insist persons working with molten metal on
the melt deck and iron pourers wear welder's greens. These are cotton.
Also the proper gloves and leggings, and of course eye protection and proper
footwear.

One of my own burns was when I was a greenhorn with 2-3 months experience.
Iron got into my boot while I was carrying a 20 pound ladle of metal to pour
some small molds. Luckily I could get rid of the iron quickly nut the top
of my toe was badly burnt. I did not go to the doctor because the burn was
about the size of a quarter. I did get a tetanus shot. It took a long time
to heal. I was lucky. On the second instance (12 years ago at another
foundry) I was looking down the open riser top of a large mold when it blew
up. Molten aluminum blew as high as 30 feet towards the foundry roof. Some
of the aluminum blew into my face. I was not wearing saftefy glasses and
fortunately I closed my eyes just before the metal hit. I peeled the
aluminum from my eyelid and eyebrow quickly but the burns were still 2nd
degree. The doctor could do nothing for me, except to give me a tetanus
shot and give me silvadine cream for the burn. It took about 3 months to
heal. Luckily again no permanent scarring or loss of eyesight. Other burns
I have gotten over the years have been minor.

In both cases the splaching metal was due to moisture being where it should
not be. When a drop of water is heated by molten metal it turns to steam
instantly, expanding about 60,000 times it's original volume. This sprays
metal everywhere. Secondarily in both cases I could have been wearing
better personal protecive equipment. In the first case it was no leggings
and the second case no safety glasses (as a minimum) and no face shield.

In some cases the aluminum burns can be worse than iron burns, it depends on
how moist the skin is (sweat) and how the metal hits you and where it hits
you. Iron does not tend to stick like the lower melting point metals.

Y'all be careful out there when handling molten metal and take precautions
that all your molding material and tools, and work areas are dry.

Mark

"JohnM" wrote in message
...
There's nothing like getting spatter down
low-top canvas shoes to brighten up your day.


I worked with a guy who seemed to be more concerned with how cool he
looked with his boot laces all dragging and the uppers and tongues
sticking outside his trouser legs than with the possible results of it.. I
remember him sitting and screaming "Get it off!" as a big guy pulled on
his sock (I didn't know tube socks would stretch so far), he'd gotten
about a quarter-cup of molten aluminum down his boot and it really did a
number- burned the bones on the top of his foot, put him in the hospital
with a major blood poisoning. He was a miserable boy for a long time, just
about died from the blood poisoning.

The metatarsal boots are a little heavy but they sure do a good job of
protecting your feet from such stuff, saved me some pain a couple of times
in that shop.

John



  #14   Report Post  
pyotr filipivich
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show "Colin Jacobs"
wrote back on Sat, 26 Mar 2005 16:52:46 GMT in
rec.crafts.metalworking :
A bit OT but as you are all engineers What is the melting point of lead?


Around six hundred degrees Fahrenheit.

If I melt it are the fumes poisonous?


Yes. Not immediately, but prolonged exposure to the vapors will give
you lead poisoning. So will handling the lead with your hands, and then
eating (or smoking) with those hands. Wash first.

What is the best vessel to melt lead in?


One which won't melt. Iron is cheap, aluminum will work.
After that, it depends on how much you want to melt, and all other
factors.

Company I worked for would melt ingots in an iron pot over a propane
burner, then pour the lead into a piece of angle iron to make counter
weights. Did this either outdoors if it wasn't going to rain, or next to
the open roll up doors when it was.

tschus
pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich.
as an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James
Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at
producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with."
  #15   Report Post  
Don Bruder
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article ,
pyotr filipivich wrote:

I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show "Colin Jacobs"
wrote back on Sat, 26 Mar 2005 16:52:46 GMT in
rec.crafts.metalworking :
A bit OT but as you are all engineers What is the melting point of lead?


Around six hundred degrees Fahrenheit.


621 degrees to melt, to be precise. Advice I've heard from all
directions over the years agrees that even if it's melted at 621, it's
stupid to even attempt to pour lead at under 700 unless you're working
with super-small, ultra-simple molds.

Taken from a beginner-level "hint booklet" packed with a sinker mold, in
a section discussing "How do I know it's hot enough?":

"Using a long-handled pair of pliers or similar tool, poke the stick end
of a regular wooden kitchen match into your melting pot and start
counting "one thousand one, one thousand two", and so on. If the
matchstick isn't on fire by the time you hit "one thousand seven", your
metal isn't hot enough. When you pour, it is likely that the lead will
"freeze" before completely filling the mold cavity. Should this happen,
simply put the malformed piece back into the pot for remelting and try
again with a somewhat higher temperature."

--
Don Bruder - - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004.
Short form: I'm trashing EVERY E-mail that doesn't contain a password in the
subject unless it comes from a "whitelisted" (pre-approved by me) address.
See http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html for full details.


  #16   Report Post  
pyotr filipivich
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show Don Bruder
wrote back on Wed, 30 Mar 2005 18:28:05 GMT in
rec.crafts.metalworking :
In article ,
pyotr filipivich wrote:

I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show "Colin Jacobs"
wrote back on Sat, 26 Mar 2005 16:52:46 GMT in
rec.crafts.metalworking :
A bit OT but as you are all engineers What is the melting point of lead?


Around six hundred degrees Fahrenheit.


621 degrees to melt, to be precise. Advice I've heard from all
directions over the years agrees that even if it's melted at 621, it's
stupid to even attempt to pour lead at under 700 unless you're working
with super-small, ultra-simple molds.

Taken from a beginner-level "hint booklet" packed with a sinker mold, in
a section discussing "How do I know it's hot enough?":

"Using a long-handled pair of pliers or similar tool, poke the stick end
of a regular wooden kitchen match into your melting pot and start
counting "one thousand one, one thousand two", and so on. If the
matchstick isn't on fire by the time you hit "one thousand seven", your
metal isn't hot enough. When you pour, it is likely that the lead will
"freeze" before completely filling the mold cavity. Should this happen,
simply put the malformed piece back into the pot for remelting and try
again with a somewhat higher temperature."


Good advice. Just like water and ice. You can get liquid water at 32
degrees, but when it stops moving, it solidifies.

tschus
pyotr


--
pyotr filipivich.
as an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James
Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at
producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with."
  #17   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 16:44:34 GMT, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show Don Bruder
wrote back on Wed, 30 Mar 2005 18:28:05 GMT in
rec.crafts.metalworking :
In article ,
pyotr filipivich wrote:

I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show "Colin Jacobs"
wrote back on Sat, 26 Mar 2005 16:52:46 GMT in
rec.crafts.metalworking :
A bit OT but as you are all engineers What is the melting point of lead?

Around six hundred degrees Fahrenheit.


621 degrees to melt, to be precise. Advice I've heard from all
directions over the years agrees that even if it's melted at 621, it's
stupid to even attempt to pour lead at under 700 unless you're working
with super-small, ultra-simple molds.

Taken from a beginner-level "hint booklet" packed with a sinker mold, in
a section discussing "How do I know it's hot enough?":

"Using a long-handled pair of pliers or similar tool, poke the stick end
of a regular wooden kitchen match into your melting pot and start
counting "one thousand one, one thousand two", and so on. If the
matchstick isn't on fire by the time you hit "one thousand seven", your
metal isn't hot enough. When you pour, it is likely that the lead will
"freeze" before completely filling the mold cavity. Should this happen,
simply put the malformed piece back into the pot for remelting and try
again with a somewhat higher temperature."


Good advice. Just like water and ice. You can get liquid water at 32
degrees, but when it stops moving, it solidifies.


Yup. You can get liquid water below 32 degrees, depends on th' saline
content. Think brine tanks or th' Bering Sea. Worked in a cannery
where finished product (King Crab) was run submersed through about an
80' long brine tank. When it came out (100 lb boxes) it was frozen
solid. There was a pretty substantial recirculating pump in that
system.

Snarl

  #20   Report Post  
pyotr filipivich
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show JohnM
wrote back on Tue, 29 Mar 2005 13:02:11 -0500 in rec.crafts.metalworking :
There's nothing like getting spatter down
low-top canvas shoes to brighten up your day.


I worked with a guy who seemed to be more concerned with how cool he
looked with his boot laces all dragging and the uppers and tongues
sticking outside his trouser legs than with the possible results of it..
I remember him sitting and screaming "Get it off!" as a big guy pulled
on his sock (I didn't know tube socks would stretch so far), he'd gotten
about a quarter-cup of molten aluminum down his boot and it really did a
number- burned the bones on the top of his foot, put him in the hospital
with a major blood poisoning. He was a miserable boy for a long time,
just about died from the blood poisoning.


My brother, when he was 12 or so, managed to spill about a quarter
pound of lead off the stove and splatter it all over the kitchen floor, and
him in cutoffs and bare feet.
Not a mark on him.

The metatarsal boots are a little heavy but they sure do a good job of
protecting your feet from such stuff, saved me some pain a couple of
times in that shop.

John


--
pyotr filipivich.
as an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James
Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at
producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with."


  #21   Report Post  
Tim Williams
 
Posts: n/a
Default

wrote in message
...
Yup. You can get liquid water below 32 degrees, depends on th' saline
content. Think brine tanks or th' Bering Sea.


Well, in the case of salts, those actually cause the melting point to drop
(which, since it can no longer be solid at say 20F, it melts, hence ice
melter works; the melting and depression of melting point also causes
cooling, hence salted ice for ice cream machines). Same way a little lead
makes tin's melting point drop (the lowest melting point of the system is at
336F IIRC - a far cry from the 450 or 620F of either constituent).

And as long as I'm dragging on...
Things will easily freeze up while you move them -- they might not stick
together well though. The motion breaks up bonds between grains of ice (or
whatever) as it forms, making a slush. (Heh, take a look at slushy
machines!)

Tim

--
"California is the breakfast state: fruits, nuts and flakes."
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Roofing lead used for soundproofing jim rozen Metalworking 21 January 22nd 05 03:53 PM
Living without air conditioning. Gunluvver2 Metalworking 141 August 6th 04 05:30 AM
Lead to copper fitting Andrew Mawson UK diy 0 May 10th 04 05:26 PM
Joining Plastic Waste pipe to Lead pipe tinklemagoo UK diy 3 February 19th 04 05:34 AM
Brass drill bit (for lead) Alaric B Snell Metalworking 18 September 30th 03 09:33 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:42 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2023 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about DIY & home improvement"