What insert to use?
 

I just bought one of these indexible endmills.
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=324-0105

It uses the following inserts:

TPG/TPU/TPC-321,2

Looks like 6 choices. What is the difference among them, and which ones
should I buy? I expect to use this for surfacing mild steel and
aluminum. But I have yet to use this minimill so I don't know what I
will end up doing with it :)
--
- -
Rex Burkheimer
WM Automotive
Fort Worth TX

T = triangle
P = Positive 11 degrees relief
G = Ground
U = Utility
C = Ground with closer tolerances than G
3 = size
2 = thickness
1 = 0.1 mm corner radius
2 = 0.2 mm corner radius

I did not look at which endmill you bought, but if it has only one
insert there isn't much benefit from buying the higher tolerance
inserts. Even with multiple inserts, the U utility grade is probably
good enough unless you are really fussy on the finish.

These inserts are very common and you should be able to find them on
Ebay or on sale.

For aluminum you could use ones with more relief. Instead of P in the
second place, you might try D,E,F,OR G.

Dan



Rex B wrote:
I just bought one of these indexible endmills.
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=324-0105

It uses the following inserts:

TPG/TPU/TPC-321,2

Looks like 6 choices. What is the difference among them, and which
ones
should I buy? I expect to use this for surfacing mild steel and
aluminum. But I have yet to use this minimill so I don't know what I

will end up doing with it :)
--
- -
Rex Burkheimer
WM Automotive
Fort Worth TX

On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 07:58:34 -0800, Grant Erwin
snip
It uses the following inserts:
TPG/TPU/TPC-321,2
snip
According to the catalog the ANSI nomenclature is:

T = Triangle

P = 11 degrees relief

G = ground with +/- 0.001 inch tol on the I.C. [outside]
dimensions and +/- 0.005 on the thickness.

U = unground with +/- 0.010 on the I.C. and +/- 0.005 on the
thickness

C = ground with +/- 0.001 on the I.C. and +/- 0.001 on the
thickness.

I have used both TPU and TPG and could not tell any difference.

Last digit in 320,321,322,323 is the nose radius.
0 = 0.004 inch nose radius
1 = 1/64 inch nose radius
2 = 1/32 nose radius
3 = 3/64 nose radius
4 = 1/16 nose radius

I find that the nose radius does make a difference. The bigger
nose radius tends to give better finish and longer insert life,
but some materials require smaller nose radius to avoid chatter
and squeal.

Coated inserts seem to give better finishes for me and lost
longer. TiN [gold] is good I have not yet tried the TiC
coatings. The Al2O3 coating dosen't work well on aluminium but
is great for cast iron.

For home shop and light volume production coated inserts appear
to eliminate the need for C2 and C6 grades, and has allowed us to
use C6 for everything.

A google search for tpu-322, etc. turns up lots of bargins.

GmcD

F. George McDuffee wrote:
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 07:58:34 -0800, Grant Erwin
snip

It uses the following inserts:
TPG/TPU/TPC-321,2

snip
According to the catalog the ANSI nomenclature is:

T = Triangle

P = 11 degrees relief

G = ground with +/- 0.001 inch tol on the I.C. [outside]
dimensions and +/- 0.005 on the thickness.

U = unground with +/- 0.010 on the I.C. and +/- 0.005 on the
thickness

C = ground with +/- 0.001 on the I.C. and +/- 0.001 on the
thickness.

I have used both TPU and TPG and could not tell any difference.

Last digit in 320,321,322,323 is the nose radius.
0 = 0.004 inch nose radius
1 = 1/64 inch nose radius
2 = 1/32 nose radius
3 = 3/64 nose radius
4 = 1/16 nose radius

I find that the nose radius does make a difference. The bigger
nose radius tends to give better finish and longer insert life,
but some materials require smaller nose radius to avoid chatter
and squeal.

Coated inserts seem to give better finishes for me and lost
longer. TiN [gold] is good I have not yet tried the TiC
coatings. The Al2O3 coating dosen't work well on aluminium but
is great for cast iron.

For home shop and light volume production coated inserts appear
to eliminate the need for C2 and C6 grades, and has allowed us to
use C6 for everything.

A google search for tpu-322, etc. turns up lots of bargins.

GmcD


Thanks to all that replied, good info.
The indexible tool holders I bought for the lathe use the same inserts,
so I did good (by accident).
I'll go shop at the local surplus tool emporium today.


--
- -
Rex Burkheimer
WM Automotive
Fort Worth TX

Rex B wrote:

I just bought one of these indexible endmills.
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=324-0105

It uses the following inserts:

TPG/TPU/TPC-321,2

Looks like 6 choices. What is the difference among them, and which ones
should I buy? I expect to use this for surfacing mild steel and
aluminum. But I have yet to use this minimill so I don't know what I
will end up doing with it :)

You're going to use this on a minimill? Which minimill is that?
Are we talking 150 Lb Chinese minimill or 850 Lb? It makes a difference.

Jon

You're going to use this on a minimill? Which minimill is that?
Are we talking 150 Lb Chinese minimill or 850 Lb? It makes a difference.

FWIW, I bought one of these (R8 TP insert holder) for my old Bridgeport 1J
head machine. The machine wouldn't take it. I guess its for sale if someone
wants one.

On my Excello (WAY more rigid) I find the high performance inserts are
worth the extra bucks. You wouldn't believe how fast you can remove metal
with a Sandvick R-390 insert. Same deal with my 10EE, the CNMG inserts with
the LF chipbreaker remove way more metal and give more accurate results. By
that, I mean the TPG seems to cause more deflection pressure and gives not
as repeatable results. Of course, both these inserts are 5X more expensive.
You gets what you pays for.

Karl

snip
You're going to use this on a minimill? Which minimill is that?
Are we talking 150 Lb Chinese minimill or 850 Lb? It makes a difference.
snip
For mini-mill use see SKU 1093-0835 at http://www.wttool.com/
1/2 shank 1/2, 9/16, and 5/8 diameter carbide insert end mill set
for 25.76. Also available seperately.

Takes TPG/U 22X inserts.

Works well on our Emco mill. ideal for machining steel with
scale.

GmcD

Jon Elson wrote:
Rex B wrote:


I just bought one of these indexible endmills.
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=324-0105

It uses the following inserts:

TPG/TPU/TPC-321,2

Looks like 6 choices. What is the difference among them, and which
ones should I buy? I expect to use this for surfacing mild steel and
aluminum. But I have yet to use this minimill so I don't know what I
will end up doing with it :)


You're going to use this on a minimill? Which minimill is that?
Are we talking 150 Lb Chinese minimill or 850 Lb? It makes a difference.

Jon

Uh, yeah. 150-lb benchtop minimill, of the oriental persuasion.

--
- -
Rex Burkheimer
WM Automotive
Fort Worth TX

Karl Townsend wrote:
You're going to use this on a minimill? Which minimill is that?
Are we talking 150 Lb Chinese minimill or 850 Lb? It makes a difference.


FWIW, I bought one of these (R8 TP insert holder) for my old Bridgeport 1J
head machine. The machine wouldn't take it. I guess its for sale if someone
wants one.

You mean your BP did not have the power or rigidity to drive it?

The one i got was 1.25". I figured to use it to face things flat. I
realize I won't be hogging large chunks of metal with it, but I figure I
can shave off .010 per half-width pass.


--
- -
Rex Burkheimer
WM Automotive
Fort Worth TX

On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:18:47 -0600, the inscrutable Rex B
spake:

Uh, yeah. 150-lb benchtop minimill, of the oriental persuasion.

Which did you buy (and why), Rex? I've been eyeing the info on
http://www.mini-lathe.com/Mini_mill/...s/versions.htm and
http://www.littlemachineshop.com/Inf...ll_compare.php just
in case I find my crowbar and break out the wallet some day soon.
The HF looks to have the longest Z travel and I can get a lifetime
warranty through the local (25 miles away) store, so that looks to
be the most solid bet for me.

--
Put some color in your cheeks: Garden Naked!
------
www.diversify.com Colorful Website Development

I have run one like that and a larger 5 incert in my Millport with great
results. I would think a Bridgeport in good condition would have the same
results.
"Karl Townsend" remove .NOT to reply wrote
in message ink.net...

You're going to use this on a minimill? Which minimill is that?
Are we talking 150 Lb Chinese minimill or 850 Lb? It makes a difference.

FWIW, I bought one of these (R8 TP insert holder) for my old Bridgeport 1J
head machine. The machine wouldn't take it. I guess its for sale if
someone wants one.

On my Excello (WAY more rigid) I find the high performance inserts are
worth the extra bucks. You wouldn't believe how fast you can remove metal
with a Sandvick R-390 insert. Same deal with my 10EE, the CNMG inserts
with the LF chipbreaker remove way more metal and give more accurate
results. By that, I mean the TPG seems to cause more deflection pressure
and gives not as repeatable results. Of course, both these inserts are 5X
more expensive. You gets what you pays for.

Karl

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:18:47 -0600, the inscrutable Rex B
spake:


Uh, yeah. 150-lb benchtop minimill, of the oriental persuasion.


Which did you buy (and why), Rex? I've been eyeing the info on
http://www.mini-lathe.com/Mini_mill/...s/versions.htm and
http://www.littlemachineshop.com/Inf...ll_compare.php just
in case I find my crowbar and break out the wallet some day soon.
The HF looks to have the longest Z travel and I can get a lifetime
warranty through the local (25 miles away) store, so that looks to
be the most solid bet for me.

I bought the Homier version.
It was cheapest at $399 plus local tax, no freight since I picked it up
locally at one of their traveling tent sales.
I actually paid less, but that's another story.
R8 Spindle. As far as I've determined the machines are absolutely
identical from any vendor save for spindle taper. MicroMark's version
has true inch-dials, at $110 more $. I never buy warranties, so that
doesn't appeal to me. As for the Z-axis, you can get max travel out of
any of them by going to the gas spring from LMS.

Unlike the 7X minilathe, none of them offer different configurations or
accessories at the base price.

--
- -
Rex Burkheimer
WM Automotive
Fort Worth TX

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 08:18:11 -0600, the inscrutable Rex B
spake:

I bought the Homier version.
It was cheapest at $399 plus local tax, no freight since I picked it up
locally at one of their traveling tent sales.

Don't you have to return the entire machine for warranty work?
(Ouch!)


I actually paid less, but that's another story.

Cool.


R8 Spindle. As far as I've determined the machines are absolutely
identical from any vendor save for spindle taper. MicroMark's version
has true inch-dials, at $110 more $.

Who needs 'em when you can add DROs?


I never buy warranties, so that
doesn't appeal to me.

I normally don't, either, but on something which eats gears for lunch,
I thought it might be a good deal. $12 for several sets of $38 gears,
as necessary?


As for the Z-axis, you can get max travel out of
any of them by going to the gas spring from LMS.

Got a URL?


Unlike the 7X minilathe, none of them offer different configurations or
accessories at the base price.

The cheap base price is the key.


================================================== ======
TANSTAAFL: There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
http://diversify.com Gourmet Web Applications
==========================

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 08:18:11 -0600, the inscrutable Rex B
spake:


I bought the Homier version.
It was cheapest at $399 plus local tax, no freight since I picked it up
locally at one of their traveling tent sales.


Don't you have to return the entire machine for warranty work?
(Ouch!)

I'll fix it myself, and likely upgrade whatever broke

R8 Spindle. As far as I've determined the machines are absolutely
identical from any vendor save for spindle taper. MicroMark's version
has true inch-dials, at $110 more $.

Who needs 'em when you can add DROs?

Agreed. I wish MicroMark would offer a DRO coonversion like they did for
the minilathe. It had LCDs instead of degreed dials.


I never buy warranties, so that
doesn't appeal to me.

I normally don't, either, but on something which eats gears for lunch,
I thought it might be a good deal. $12 for several sets of $38 gears,
as necessary?

Granted, but the diff is $112. That's 3 sets of gears.
Besides, LMS sells the gears separately for $5 - $7 each.
The complete spare gears set is $30.

As for the Z-axis, you can get max travel out of
any of them by going to the gas spring from LMS.

Got a URL?

I can't find it on www.LittleMachineShop.com, but I have seen it in
their printed catalog. It's also referred to on several of the
enthusiast sites. Apparently the early models used the gas support,
later ones use the spring. You just order the parts for the early ones.

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 15:26:05 -0600, the inscrutable Rex B
spake:

I'll fix it myself, and likely upgrade whatever broke

You'd make your own gears, the common replacement part when you forget
to lock the head to the gibs?


R8 Spindle. As far as I've determined the machines are absolutely
identical from any vendor save for spindle taper. MicroMark's version
has true inch-dials, at $110 more $.

Who needs 'em when you can add DROs?

Agreed. I wish MicroMark would offer a DRO coonversion like they did for
the minilathe. It had LCDs instead of degreed dials.

LMS has DRO kits for "only" an arm and half a leg. (twice the purchase
price) but you can find the same imports a lot cheaper on Ebay, etc.


I normally don't, either, but on something which eats gears for lunch,
I thought it might be a good deal. $12 for several sets of $38 gears,
as necessary?

Granted, but the diff is $112.

Yeah, you did get a deal on that machine.


Besides, LMS sells the gears separately for $5 - $7 each.
The complete spare gears set is $30.

Ah!


As for the Z-axis, you can get max travel out of
any of them by going to the gas spring from LMS.

Got a URL?

I can't find it on www.LittleMachineShop.com, but I have seen it in
their printed catalog. It's also referred to on several of the
enthusiast sites. Apparently the early models used the gas support,
later ones use the spring. You just order the parts for the early ones.

Oh, _that_ LMS. ;)


================================================== ======
TANSTAAFL: There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
http://diversify.com Gourmet Web Applications
==========================

Larry Jaques wrote:

You'd make your own gears, the common replacement part when you forget
to lock the head to the gibs?

Some people have changed the gear drive to a toothed belt to make the
drivetrain more forgiving.

As for the Z-axis, you can get max travel out of
any of them by going to the gas spring from LMS.

Got a URL?

$39.95, improved design

http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...ProductID=2258

Real quickly I can see spending $200 in upgrades before I make the first
chip. Already spent $111 on collets and endmills from Enco.

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 01:05:50 GMT, the inscrutable Rex
spake:

Real quickly I can see spending $200 in upgrades before I make the first
chip. Already spent $111 on collets and endmills from Enco.

Shoulda talked to Gunner. I hear he has one or two spare collets
laying around there.


================================================== ======
TANSTAAFL: There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
http://diversify.com Gourmet Web Applications
==========================