Champion post drill?
 

Got another oldie. This one is a Champion No. 97 post drill. It looks a lot
like the red one on this page: http://www.beautifuliron.com/thepost.htm
but has a longer driveshaft with two flat belt pulleys on it. The table was
broken in half back where it bolts onto the support, but today Ernie did a
fantastic TIG weld on it using nickel rod, ran a tap through to chase out the
rust, and the original threads still work. An amazing weld. What an artist.

Anyway, there are a couple of things about this drill press (which is in
pieces) I don't understand. I don't get the bit about the 2 flat belt
pulleys. Here's a pic of a similar machine with one flat belt pulley, and
you can see the length on the driveshaft where another one goes.
http://www.owwm.com/PhotoIndex/Images/870-A.jpg

Also, the machine is missing the thrust bearing entirely, and it
doesn't look like the same setup as a No. 90, shown on this page:
http://home.att.net/~ilikerust/postdrill.html

Here's a tantalizing fragment:
http://www.roseantiquetools.com/site...res/HSB174.jpg

It mentions no. 97s and one says it has a tight and a loose pulley and something
about 250 rpm. Hoo boy this has my curiosity going bigtime! It says the tool
weighs 175 pounds which seems about right - lot of cast iron in this pup.

Can anyone shed any light?

Thanks,

Grant Erwin
Kirkland, Washington

The two pulleys are likely for a tight and loose pulley system where the
belt is shifted onto the loose pulley side to stop it while the lineshaft is
still running. The tight pulley is keyed to the lineshaft and the loose
pulley is free to rotate on the shaft (or to be stationary while the shaft
rotates).
Don Young
"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
Got another oldie. This one is a Champion No. 97 post drill. It looks a
lot
like the red one on this page: http://www.beautifuliron.com/thepost.htm
but has a longer driveshaft with two flat belt pulleys on it. The table
was
broken in half back where it bolts onto the support, but today Ernie did a
fantastic TIG weld on it using nickel rod, ran a tap through to chase out
the
rust, and the original threads still work. An amazing weld. What an
artist.

Anyway, there are a couple of things about this drill press (which is in
pieces) I don't understand. I don't get the bit about the 2 flat belt
pulleys. Here's a pic of a similar machine with one flat belt pulley, and
you can see the length on the driveshaft where another one goes.
http://www.owwm.com/PhotoIndex/Images/870-A.jpg

Also, the machine is missing the thrust bearing entirely, and it
doesn't look like the same setup as a No. 90, shown on this page:
http://home.att.net/~ilikerust/postdrill.html

Here's a tantalizing fragment:
http://www.roseantiquetools.com/site...res/HSB174.jpg

It mentions no. 97s and one says it has a tight and a loose pulley and
something
about 250 rpm. Hoo boy this has my curiosity going bigtime! It says the
tool
weighs 175 pounds which seems about right - lot of cast iron in this pup.

Can anyone shed any light?

Thanks,

Grant Erwin
Kirkland, Washington

So let me get this straight. The line shaft is running, the drill spindle
is turning, you throw the feed into neutral, and then what? put a hook
on the belt and just hork it over? I believe you, but I can't imagine
how you'd actually shift a flat belt while it's running. I have a flat
belt running my lathe and it's pretty tight, and if I monkey around with
it much it will catch something and throw it.

Grant

Don Young wrote:
The two pulleys are likely for a tight and loose pulley system where the
belt is shifted onto the loose pulley side to stop it while the lineshaft is
still running. The tight pulley is keyed to the lineshaft and the loose
pulley is free to rotate on the shaft (or to be stationary while the shaft
rotates).
Don Young


"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...

Got another oldie. This one is a Champion No. 97 post drill. It looks a
lot
like the red one on this page: http://www.beautifuliron.com/thepost.htm
but has a longer driveshaft with two flat belt pulleys on it. The table
was
broken in half back where it bolts onto the support, but today Ernie did a
fantastic TIG weld on it using nickel rod, ran a tap through to chase out
the
rust, and the original threads still work. An amazing weld. What an
artist.

Anyway, there are a couple of things about this drill press (which is in
pieces) I don't understand. I don't get the bit about the 2 flat belt
pulleys. Here's a pic of a similar machine with one flat belt pulley, and
you can see the length on the driveshaft where another one goes.
http://www.owwm.com/PhotoIndex/Images/870-A.jpg

Also, the machine is missing the thrust bearing entirely, and it
doesn't look like the same setup as a No. 90, shown on this page:
http://home.att.net/~ilikerust/postdrill.html

Here's a tantalizing fragment:
http://www.roseantiquetools.com/site...res/HSB174.jpg

It mentions no. 97s and one says it has a tight and a loose pulley and
something
about 250 rpm. Hoo boy this has my curiosity going bigtime! It says the
tool
weighs 175 pounds which seems about right - lot of cast iron in this pup.

Can anyone shed any light?

Thanks,

Grant Erwin
Kirkland, Washington

Grant Erwin wrote:
So let me get this straight. The line shaft is running, the drill
spindle is turning, you throw the feed into neutral, and then what?
put a hook on the belt and just hork it over? I believe you, but I
can't imagine how you'd actually shift a flat belt while it's
running. I have a flat belt running my lathe and it's pretty tight,
and if I monkey around with it much it will catch something and throw
it.

Flat belts from a line shaft aren't supposed to be run tight - A loose belt
wraps around more of the pulleys providing more driving force/friction, it
also means that if your lathe jams, the belt will slip instead of buggering
up your lathe. - It's also supposed to cause less stress and wear on the
bearings and shafts, but I doubt this will be significant in a hobby shop,
as opposed to a 24hr-a-day production shop

Any number of pre WWII diy/home workshop books (perhaps only UK ones) go
into great about driving hobby shops from lineshafts, usually powered by old
lawn mower/motorbike engines.

I can scan/OCR some pages if anyone is interested. - They are out of
copyright.
--
BigEgg

It seems odd that a lineshaft drill would run constantly if the quill needs
to be raised by a handwheel, then the pawl reset to power feed when the next
hole position is ready to drill.
Sure, we use the common modern drill presses without needing to stop them
because we can just release the quill feed pinion handle.

I have one of the old post drills, but it doesn't have any pulleys for
lineshaft drive. There is a flywheel pulley with a rough cast V belt groove
in it.
Mine is a 2 speed model (manufacturer unknown), and the operator moves the
handle from one side to the other to change speeds.

If you haven't drilled steel with a post drill before, you'll be surprised
how well the power feed works to make holes quickly.
It operates somewhat like the Cole drill, except the post drills aren't as
rigid, in that the table column isn't an integral part of the upper frame
(the post drill column is more for just positioning the table).

WB
.............

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
Got another oldie. This one is a Champion No. 97 post drill. It looks a
lot
like the red one on this page: http://www.beautifuliron.com/thepost.htm
but has a longer driveshaft with two flat belt pulleys on it. The table
was
broken in half back where it bolts onto the support, but today Ernie did a
fantastic TIG weld on it using nickel rod, ran a tap through to chase out
the
rust, and the original threads still work. An amazing weld. What an
artist.

Anyway, there are a couple of things about this drill press (which is in
pieces) I don't understand. I don't get the bit about the 2 flat belt
pulleys. Here's a pic of a similar machine with one flat belt pulley, and
you can see the length on the driveshaft where another one goes.
http://www.owwm.com/PhotoIndex/Images/870-A.jpg

Also, the machine is missing the thrust bearing entirely, and it
doesn't look like the same setup as a No. 90, shown on this page:
http://home.att.net/~ilikerust/postdrill.html

Here's a tantalizing fragment:

http://www.roseantiquetools.com/site...res/HSB174.jpg

It mentions no. 97s and one says it has a tight and a loose pulley and
something
about 250 rpm. Hoo boy this has my curiosity going bigtime! It says the
tool
weighs 175 pounds which seems about right - lot of cast iron in this pup.

Can anyone shed any light?

Thanks,

Grant Erwin
Kirkland, Washington







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It was somewhere outside Barstow when "bigegg"
wrote:

Any number of pre WWII diy/home workshop books (perhaps only UK ones) go
into great about driving hobby shops from lineshafts, usually powered by old
lawn mower/motorbike engines.

One of my neighbours has a workshop behind the house, both built
around 1900. It's still powered by the original Crossley 6hp gas
engine, six foot flywheel and all. Couple of big lathes and a drill
in there, all running off flat belt lineshafts.

No hook, you use a belt shifter (basically a round piece of wood) and
slide the belt over to the other pulley. VERY common in line shaft
drives. Some equipment even came with a "belt shifter" on it, in those
cases it looks more like a belt guide mounted on a pivot with the belt
running between the top posts of the guide. When you wanted to stop the
tool you threw the belt to the loose pulley. Want to start it up again,
you grabbed the shifter and knocked the belt over to the tight pulley.
Doesn't take much to shift the belt as long as you have a good belt that
has a tight laced seam.
--
Steve Williams

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
So let me get this straight. The line shaft is running, the drill
spindle
is turning, you throw the feed into neutral, and then what? put a hook
on the belt and just hork it over? I believe you, but I can't imagine
how you'd actually shift a flat belt while it's running. I have a flat
belt running my lathe and it's pretty tight, and if I monkey around
with
it much it will catch something and throw it.

Grant

Don Young wrote:
The two pulleys are likely for a tight and loose pulley system where
the
belt is shifted onto the loose pulley side to stop it while the
lineshaft is
still running. The tight pulley is keyed to the lineshaft and the
loose
pulley is free to rotate on the shaft (or to be stationary while the
shaft
rotates).
Don Young


"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...

Got another oldie. This one is a Champion No. 97 post drill. It
looks a
lot
like the red one on this page:
http://www.beautifuliron.com/thepost.htm
but has a longer driveshaft with two flat belt pulleys on it. The
table
was
broken in half back where it bolts onto the support, but today Ernie
did a
fantastic TIG weld on it using nickel rod, ran a tap through to
chase out
the
rust, and the original threads still work. An amazing weld. What an
artist.

Anyway, there are a couple of things about this drill press (which
is in
pieces) I don't understand. I don't get the bit about the 2 flat
belt
pulleys. Here's a pic of a similar machine with one flat belt
pulley, and
you can see the length on the driveshaft where another one goes.
http://www.owwm.com/PhotoIndex/Images/870-A.jpg

Also, the machine is missing the thrust bearing entirely, and it
doesn't look like the same setup as a No. 90, shown on this page:
http://home.att.net/~ilikerust/postdrill.html

Here's a tantalizing fragment:

http://www.roseantiquetools.com/site...uilderpictures
/HSB174.jpg

It mentions no. 97s and one says it has a tight and a loose pulley
and
something
about 250 rpm. Hoo boy this has my curiosity going bigtime! It says
the
tool
weighs 175 pounds which seems about right - lot of cast iron in this
pup.

Can anyone shed any light?

Thanks,

Grant Erwin
Kirkland, Washington









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Steve W. wrote:
No hook, you use a belt shifter (basically a round piece of wood) and
slide the belt over to the other pulley. VERY common in line shaft
drives. Some equipment even came with a "belt shifter" on it, in those
cases it looks more like a belt guide mounted on a pivot with the belt
running between the top posts of the guide. When you wanted to stop the
tool you threw the belt to the loose pulley. Want to start it up again,
you grabbed the shifter and knocked the belt over to the tight pulley.
Doesn't take much to shift the belt as long as you have a good belt that
has a tight laced seam.

Ah, I'm getting it. The correct term is "fast and loose pulleys" -- a term
reminiscent of some women I've known .. other people mention "loose and tight
pulleys", same difference. If anyone's curious, see the page
http://www.enginads.com/extras/2003s...mes/read/47838

GWE

Andy Dingley wrote:

It was somewhere outside Barstow when "bigegg"
wrote:

Any number of pre WWII diy/home workshop books (perhaps only UK ones) go
into great about driving hobby shops from lineshafts, usually powered by old
lawn mower/motorbike engines.

One of my neighbours has a workshop behind the house, both built
around 1900. It's still powered by the original Crossley 6hp gas
engine, six foot flywheel and all. Couple of big lathes and a drill
in there, all running off flat belt lineshafts.

Here in the US, Popular Mechanics magazine once ran an article about a more
modern lineshaft system: a freestanding bench with homeshop machines down each
side of it, with one motor under the table and a lineshaft down the middle of
the table's surface. The drive was V-belts instead of flat belts, with idler
wheels on levers to clutch each machine into action. The idea, of course, was
to save on expensive motors, in a day when machines didn't automatically sell
with an integral motor, and when 1/2 horsepower motors weren't so readily
available in old appliances.

A number of my colleagues in rural southern Oregon and northern California are
either off the grid entirely, or have shop buildings with very limited
electrical capacity. So I've seen a number of power hammers run by gas engines,
often the old one-cylinder farm engines from the 1920's. (One of them is so
loud you actually cannot hear whether the power hammer is in use or not--IMHO he
should build a muffler for it!)

Conrad Hodson

On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 08:40:31 -0000, "bigegg"
wrote:

Grant Erwin wrote:
So let me get this straight. The line shaft is running, the drill
spindle is turning, you throw the feed into neutral, and then what?
put a hook on the belt and just hork it over? I believe you, but I
can't imagine how you'd actually shift a flat belt while it's
running. I have a flat belt running my lathe and it's pretty tight,
and if I monkey around with it much it will catch something and throw
it.

Flat belts from a line shaft aren't supposed to be run tight - A loose belt
wraps around more of the pulleys providing more driving force/friction, it
also means that if your lathe jams, the belt will slip instead of buggering
up your lathe. - It's also supposed to cause less stress and wear on the
bearings and shafts, but I doubt this will be significant in a hobby shop,
as opposed to a 24hr-a-day production shop

Any number of pre WWII diy/home workshop books (perhaps only UK ones) go
into great about driving hobby shops from lineshafts, usually powered by old
lawn mower/motorbike engines.

I can scan/OCR some pages if anyone is interested. - They are out of
copyright.
I well remember the neighbour's buzz saw for cutting pole wood into
16" stove wood. Big old vertical hit and miss gas engine with two
three foot flywheels - crank handle hinged out of one flywheel to spin
it up with the exhaust valve held open, then release the valve
mechanism to let the engine start. Once the engine was running, go
round to the other side and flip the 8" flat belt onto the 18" dia. x
12" wide drive pulley mounted outboard of the flywheel to drive the
saw mandrel, then buzz wood till lunch time. Timid individuals used a
forked stick to engage the belt but the owner claimed this was unsafe
- he always flipped it on barehanded, I do believe he may have had the
right idea since once the edge of the belt went round the pulley, the
crown would pull it further on and away from him.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

In article , Gerald Miller
wrote:
Grant Erwin wrote:
So let me get this straight. The line shaft is running, the drill
spindle is turning, you throw the feed into neutral, and then what?
put a hook on the belt and just hork it over? I believe you, but I
can't imagine how you'd actually shift a flat belt while it's
running. I have a flat belt running my lathe and it's pretty tight,
and if I monkey around with it much it will catch something and throw
it.

Back in the 1950's I used to work in a place that employed man, who claimed
to be a "millwright", i.e., a generally skilled mechanic, who had his shop
near to my laboratory. The lineshaft in that shop drove several machines via
a flat belt for each machine. These belts ran on a pair of pulleys, one
fixed to the line shaft and the other free to run on he shafting. They were
called "fast and loose" pulleys.
A long lever carrying a fork was mounted so that to start work on a machine,
the chap shifted the belt over, never actually having to handle the belt
himself. Both pulleys were crowned, so that once the belt was shoved over,
it ran on that pulley and did not try to go back. As another contributor
wrote, the belt was slack enough to slip if overloaded, but then it could
run off the pulley and the lineshaft had to be stopped to replace it. The
belts were doctored with the chap's private belt dope, probably a rosin
mixture, to increase their friction. Guards wre not thought necessary in
those days!

All memory work and probably a bit wrong here and there.

I remember listening to the chap telling me tales of years ago instead of
working. Good times, those!

G.H.Ireland (retired industrial chemist)

--
igor
_____________________________________________
Acorn RISC OS4
_____________________________________________

The belts on line shaft were a lot longer then on your lathe which made the
job of moving the belt over very easy
"Mr G H Ireland" wrote in message
...
In article , Gerald Miller
wrote:
Grant Erwin wrote:
So let me get this straight. The line shaft is running, the drill
spindle is turning, you throw the feed into neutral, and then what?
put a hook on the belt and just hork it over? I believe you, but I
can't imagine how you'd actually shift a flat belt while it's
running. I have a flat belt running my lathe and it's pretty tight,
and if I monkey around with it much it will catch something and throw
it.

Back in the 1950's I used to work in a place that employed man, who
claimed
to be a "millwright", i.e., a generally skilled mechanic, who had his shop
near to my laboratory. The lineshaft in that shop drove several machines
via
a flat belt for each machine. These belts ran on a pair of pulleys, one
fixed to the line shaft and the other free to run on he shafting. They
were
called "fast and loose" pulleys.
A long lever carrying a fork was mounted so that to start work on a
machine,
the chap shifted the belt over, never actually having to handle the belt
himself. Both pulleys were crowned, so that once the belt was shoved over,
it ran on that pulley and did not try to go back. As another contributor
wrote, the belt was slack enough to slip if overloaded, but then it could
run off the pulley and the lineshaft had to be stopped to replace it. The
belts were doctored with the chap's private belt dope, probably a rosin
mixture, to increase their friction. Guards wre not thought necessary in
those days!

All memory work and probably a bit wrong here and there.

I remember listening to the chap telling me tales of years ago instead of
working. Good times, those!

G.H.Ireland (retired industrial chemist)

--
igor
_____________________________________________
Acorn RISC OS4
_____________________________________________