Jim Stewart wrote:

Mark Rand wrote:
On 13 Mar 2005 00:48:06 GMT, wrote:



For hi-fi speaker wire the 10ga zipcord offers dozens of strands per
conductor, thus it has much greater surface area per unit length than
solid conductor would. And THIS is what you want in order to conduct
the higher audio frequencies, as they travel along the 'skin' of a
conductor. More surface area=more skin. For longer lengths thicker
than 10ga will reduce power losses. Welding cable (very flexible-
many strands) would be excellent and certainly no more expensive than
those rip-off gold plated 'monster cables'. At audible frequencies
plating conductors with silver or gold has negligible effect. Only at
rf frequencies is this needed to reduce losses.

Twisted-pair are not fine enough to achieve what good quality zip cord
can in this application. And '75 ohm characteristic impedance' has
nothing to do with power transmission.



Sorry to but in here, but there is a certain quantity of ******** in the
above.

Multiple strands have no effect whatsoever if they are in electrical contact.
A 3/8" diameter welding cable is essentially identical in impedance to a solid
cable of identical cross section. The only way to get multiple strands to give
you an advantage with skin effect is to insulate them from each other and to
regularly transpose the conductors so that each one ends up with the same
impedance from end to end.

I believe Bob Pease suggests the same thing. He
said that *if* skin effect is an audible issue
with speaker cables, you should take a 40 or 50
conductor ribbon cable and use the even conductors
for one channel and the odd conductors for the other.

I don't think he thought it would make any difference,
but if you wanted to do something correct from a
physics point of view that would be the best way.

Why dont you just get some two inch soft copper tubing and cover it with
a hose?

John

In article , john says...

Why dont you just get some two inch soft copper tubing and cover it with
a hose?

This is what they do for RF bomber power supplies. Except that
they put the cooling water *inside* the copper tubing. No need
for a hose.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
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john wrote:
Jim Stewart wrote:

Mark Rand wrote:

On 13 Mar 2005 00:48:06 GMT, wrote:




For hi-fi speaker wire the 10ga zipcord offers dozens of strands per
conductor, thus it has much greater surface area per unit length than
solid conductor would. And THIS is what you want in order to conduct
the higher audio frequencies, as they travel along the 'skin' of a
conductor. More surface area=more skin. For longer lengths thicker
than 10ga will reduce power losses. Welding cable (very flexible-
many strands) would be excellent and certainly no more expensive than
those rip-off gold plated 'monster cables'. At audible frequencies
plating conductors with silver or gold has negligible effect. Only at
rf frequencies is this needed to reduce losses.

Twisted-pair are not fine enough to achieve what good quality zip cord
can in this application. And '75 ohm characteristic impedance' has
nothing to do with power transmission.



Sorry to but in here, but there is a certain quantity of ******** in the
above.

Multiple strands have no effect whatsoever if they are in electrical contact.
A 3/8" diameter welding cable is essentially identical in impedance to a solid
cable of identical cross section. The only way to get multiple strands to give
you an advantage with skin effect is to insulate them from each other and to
regularly transpose the conductors so that each one ends up with the same
impedance from end to end.

I believe Bob Pease suggests the same thing. He
said that *if* skin effect is an audible issue
with speaker cables, you should take a 40 or 50
conductor ribbon cable and use the even conductors
for one channel and the odd conductors for the other.

I don't think he thought it would make any difference,
but if you wanted to do something correct from a
physics point of view that would be the best way.


Why dont you just get some two inch soft copper tubing and cover it with
a hose?

The reason *I* don't do it is because I know it won't
make any difference to my 53-year-old ears. Zip cord
works fine. As to anyone else, do it if it makes you
feel good. Put Slick 50 in your engine while you're
at it...

The reason *I* don't do it is because I know it won't
make any difference to my 53-year-old ears. Zip cord
works fine. As to anyone else, do it if it makes you
feel good. Put Slick 50 in your engine while you're
at it...


And if anyone here can hear it over the sound of machines running, they
have much better hearing than I do!

Jim Stewart wrote:

john wrote:
Jim Stewart wrote:

Mark Rand wrote:

On 13 Mar 2005 00:48:06 GMT, wrote:




For hi-fi speaker wire the 10ga zipcord offers dozens of strands per
conductor, thus it has much greater surface area per unit length than
solid conductor would. And THIS is what you want in order to conduct
the higher audio frequencies, as they travel along the 'skin' of a
conductor. More surface area=more skin. For longer lengths thicker
than 10ga will reduce power losses. Welding cable (very flexible-
many strands) would be excellent and certainly no more expensive than
those rip-off gold plated 'monster cables'. At audible frequencies
plating conductors with silver or gold has negligible effect. Only at
rf frequencies is this needed to reduce losses.

Twisted-pair are not fine enough to achieve what good quality zip cord
can in this application. And '75 ohm characteristic impedance' has
nothing to do with power transmission.



Sorry to but in here, but there is a certain quantity of ******** in the
above.

Multiple strands have no effect whatsoever if they are in electrical contact.
A 3/8" diameter welding cable is essentially identical in impedance to a solid
cable of identical cross section. The only way to get multiple strands to give
you an advantage with skin effect is to insulate them from each other and to
regularly transpose the conductors so that each one ends up with the same
impedance from end to end.

I believe Bob Pease suggests the same thing. He
said that *if* skin effect is an audible issue
with speaker cables, you should take a 40 or 50
conductor ribbon cable and use the even conductors
for one channel and the odd conductors for the other.

I don't think he thought it would make any difference,
but if you wanted to do something correct from a
physics point of view that would be the best way.


Why dont you just get some two inch soft copper tubing and cover it with
a hose?

The reason *I* don't do it is because I know it won't
make any difference to my 53-year-old ears. Zip cord
works fine. As to anyone else, do it if it makes you
feel good. Put Slick 50 in your engine while you're
at it...

For my hearing a boom box is more than enough.

John

john wrote:
Jim Stewart wrote:

john wrote:

Jim Stewart wrote:


Mark Rand wrote:


On 13 Mar 2005 00:48:06 GMT, wrote:





For hi-fi speaker wire the 10ga zipcord offers dozens of strands per
conductor, thus it has much greater surface area per unit length than
solid conductor would. And THIS is what you want in order to conduct
the higher audio frequencies, as they travel along the 'skin' of a
conductor. More surface area=more skin. For longer lengths thicker
than 10ga will reduce power losses. Welding cable (very flexible-
many strands) would be excellent and certainly no more expensive than
those rip-off gold plated 'monster cables'. At audible frequencies
plating conductors with silver or gold has negligible effect. Only at
rf frequencies is this needed to reduce losses.

Twisted-pair are not fine enough to achieve what good quality zip cord
can in this application. And '75 ohm characteristic impedance' has
nothing to do with power transmission.



Sorry to but in here, but there is a certain quantity of ******** in the
above.

Multiple strands have no effect whatsoever if they are in electrical contact.
A 3/8" diameter welding cable is essentially identical in impedance to a solid
cable of identical cross section. The only way to get multiple strands to give
you an advantage with skin effect is to insulate them from each other and to
regularly transpose the conductors so that each one ends up with the same
impedance from end to end.

I believe Bob Pease suggests the same thing. He
said that *if* skin effect is an audible issue
with speaker cables, you should take a 40 or 50
conductor ribbon cable and use the even conductors
for one channel and the odd conductors for the other.

I don't think he thought it would make any difference,
but if you wanted to do something correct from a
physics point of view that would be the best way.


Why dont you just get some two inch soft copper tubing and cover it with
a hose?

The reason *I* don't do it is because I know it won't
make any difference to my 53-year-old ears. Zip cord
works fine. As to anyone else, do it if it makes you
feel good. Put Slick 50 in your engine while you're
at it...


For my hearing a boom box is more than enough.

I thought so too.

OTOH, I've had the privilege of hearing a couple
of live performances of Bach over the last couple
of months. I always sat in the front row and was
astonished at what I heard. There's definitely
more and better data at a live performance than
on a CD.

I know that the speaker wire is not an issue, but
I also feel that good amps and speakers are important.

On 13 Mar 2005 14:37:17 -0800, jim rozen wrote:

In article , Mark Rand says...

Multiple strands have no effect whatsoever if they are in electrical contact.
A 3/8" diameter welding cable is essentially identical in impedance to a solid
cable of identical cross section. The only way to get multiple strands to give
you an advantage with skin effect is to insulate them from each other and to
regularly transpose the conductors so that each one ends up with the same
impedance from end to end.

Umm - yes but. At higher frequencies, the solid wire will have
*less* loss.

The reason for this is that the stranded cable has multiple contact
points between strands, and unless the individual strands are
gold plated to eliminate oxide, there will be energy loss at
each one of those contact points.

It's a skin effect thing, but with a twist.

Jim


G



Mark Rand
RTFM